The Murphy Builders Site

I just added the Beaver type fins to my horizontal stabilizer and they work
good. They fit between the stabilizer and elevator. If your stabilizer is
still open I recommend nutplates for mounting. I used flush rivets that
works fine but another thing to drill out if I need to remove them. I'll
shoot and post a picture.
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Reed, Britt/FSC Salt Lake" <BReed@slcrail.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 11:00 AM
Subject: Moose Elevator Tips

Wayne - I was looking in the archives and found a reference to your
"Pilatus Porter/Kenmore Air Beaver style tip fences"
Are there any pictures in the files?
I am going to add the elevator tip cover like yours in the photo but was
wondering if there was anything to gain by adding a "Tip Fence" Component.

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Wayne - I was looking in the archives and found a reference to your
"Pilatus Porter/Kenmore Air Beaver style tip fences"
Are there any pictures in the files?
I am going to add the elevator tip cover like yours in the photo but was
wondering if there was anything to gain by adding a "Tip Fence" Component.


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Al - Thanks for the help - What thickness material and how high above the
adjacent surface is it?

Thanks again - Britt SR194

-----Original Message-----
From: Al & Deb Paxhia [mailto:paxhia2@attbi.com]
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 12:53 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Moose Elevator Tips


I just added the Beaver type fins to my horizontal stabilizer and they work
good. They fit between the stabilizer and elevator. If your stabilizer is
still open I recommend nutplates for mounting. I used flush rivets that
works fine but another thing to drill out if I need to remove them. I'll
shoot and post a picture.
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Reed, Britt/FSC Salt Lake" <BReed@slcrail.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 11:00 AM
Subject: Moose Elevator Tips

Wayne - I was looking in the archives and found a reference to your
"Pilatus Porter/Kenmore Air Beaver style tip fences"
Are there any pictures in the files?
I am going to add the elevator tip cover like yours in the photo but was
wondering if there was anything to gain by adding a "Tip Fence" Component.

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Britt, yes I installed anchor nuts while I had the stab open doing the 3500
upgrades. MAM has since installed similar to what I had in mind and the
factory moose and somewhere on their web page there are pictures of it with
them and also a pattern is available as well. I was lucky enough to trace
Jim Cole's finlet, when his brother was over to get some angle bent up to
reinforce behind the rib for the anchor nuts to mount the finlets to.

As Al says if he every wants to remove his he will have to drill them off
and this includes if you ever want to remove the stabilizer as it won't fit
through the little slot under the fin with a finlet stuck to the end!

Since you are currently building, if you are going to go with finlets it is
a great time to make the elevator tip about 1/8 " narrower to give a larger
gap between the stab and the elevator tip so it doesn't rub the finlet!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Reed, Britt/FSC Salt Lake" <BReed@slcrail.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 2:00 PM
Subject: Moose Elevator Tips

Wayne - I was looking in the archives and found a reference to your
"Pilatus Porter/Kenmore Air Beaver style tip fences"
Are there any pictures in the files?
I am going to add the elevator tip cover like yours in the photo but was
wondering if there was anything to gain by adding a "Tip Fence" Component.

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I just posted a picture of the Beaver type seafin. It's in section 66-S.
The fins stick up and down 7.5". I will measure the thickness tomorrow but
as I recall it's about .080.
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 1:44 PM
Subject: Re: Moose Elevator Tips

Britt, yes I installed anchor nuts while I had the stab open doing the

3500

upgrades. MAM has since installed similar to what I had in mind and the
factory moose and somewhere on their web page there are pictures of it

with

them and also a pattern is available as well. I was lucky enough to trace
Jim Cole's finlet, when his brother was over to get some angle bent up to
reinforce behind the rib for the anchor nuts to mount the finlets to.

As Al says if he every wants to remove his he will have to drill them off
and this includes if you ever want to remove the stabilizer as it won't

fit

through the little slot under the fin with a finlet stuck to the end!

Since you are currently building, if you are going to go with finlets it

is

a great time to make the elevator tip about 1/8 " narrower to give a

larger

gap between the stab and the elevator tip so it doesn't rub the finlet!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Reed, Britt/FSC Salt Lake" <BReed@slcrail.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 2:00 PM
Subject: Moose Elevator Tips

Wayne - I was looking in the archives and found a reference to your
"Pilatus Porter/Kenmore Air Beaver style tip fences"
Are there any pictures in the files?
I am going to add the elevator tip cover like yours in the photo but was
wondering if there was anything to gain by adding a "Tip Fence"

Component.
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Britt, another option is the larger vertical fin extension/fairing offered
by Ryan Mowat at http://www.forge-industrial.com/CGASR/. This adds 2.5 sq.
ft. of area to the fin. Presumably this will be enough area - a ventral fin
or other solutions will not required for floats.

Tim
SR060


----- Original Message -----
From: "Reed, Britt/FSC Salt Lake" <BReed@slcrail.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 11:00 AM
Subject: Moose Elevator Tips

Wayne - I was looking in the archives and found a reference to your
"Pilatus Porter/Kenmore Air Beaver style tip fences"
Are there any pictures in the files?
I am going to add the elevator tip cover like yours in the photo but was
wondering if there was anything to gain by adding a "Tip Fence" Component.

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can someone enlighten the slow guy? What are the fins for? Pro's and cons
please.

Thanks, Brad
starting out SR222



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The airplane has a yaw stability problem with floats. This is common with
most float planes. All of the extra stuff is to compensate for lack of
vertical fin area. The Moose amphibs are 600 lb. hanging under the airplane.
Without the fix, in other than calm air you are always on the controls,
stick and rudder are in constant motion.
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: <Nielsenbe@aol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: Moose Elevator Tips

can someone enlighten the slow guy? What are the fins for? Pro's and cons
please.

Thanks, Brad
starting out SR222

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I had planned to stick with the aluminum v-stab fairing that was on the
original SR. Has anybody every figured out how much area this adds to the
stab? As you can see in the pictures of Chris Gill's SR, he has the
original fairing and the ventral fin... he reported it very easy to fly.
Any problems with yaw stability Chris? This is the configuration I had
planned on using. Do you think the fins on the h-stab are still necessary?

Thanks, Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Al & Deb Paxhia" <paxhia2@attbi.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: Moose Elevator Tips

The airplane has a yaw stability problem with floats. This is common with
most float planes. All of the extra stuff is to compensate for lack of
vertical fin area. The Moose amphibs are 600 lb. hanging under the

airplane.

Without the fix, in other than calm air you are always on the controls,
stick and rudder are in constant motion.
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: <Nielsenbe@aol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: Moose Elevator Tips

can someone enlighten the slow guy? What are the fins for? Pro's and

cons

please.

Thanks, Brad
starting out SR222

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Mike,

No, I have not noticed any problems with yaw stability to date. She seems to
fly even better with the floats. I removed the trim tab on my rudder last
night as the floats offset any correction I had been using the trim for. I am
considering taking off the lower dorsal fin this winter and increasing the
size of my aluminum V-stab to make up the difference when I go to wheels or
skis. However, your comment about then having more trouble landing in
crosswinds on wheels is worth thinking about. Hmmmmmmm.......Gotta love this
EXPERIMENTAL stuff.

All I know is last night the dorsal fin was working because it took me 3 tries
to get my SR up to the dock at my cabin. Every time I'd get close to the dock
and shut down the wind would decide it was going to put me anywhere but my
cabin. On the third docking try I pushed my Dad out of the plane with a
paddle and told him to "go to manual propulsion systems". We needed the
exercise anyways. (Mental note to self, practice seaplane sailing this
weekend. I vaguely remember my instructor mentioning this concept last year
but at the time, out in the middle of a big old lake, it didn't seem so
critical).


One last motivational comment. Last night while climbing out of Lake Hood the
tower told me to watch out for a C-130 out of Elmendorf and then asked if he
could ask a personal question. I figured he wanted to know why I was
violating whatever airspace I was violating at the time, but instead he asked
how much horsepower I had. I told him 250 and he came back with "ahh...that
explains it" I guess we are jumping out of the water pretty well. It sure
feels nice, especially that surge of acceleration once you break free of the
water.

Keep building. It's worth it.

Chris Gill
SR#024, N4965
Anchorage, AK



On 6/3/2003 4:15 PM, MIKE.DAVIS@DCSOL.COM wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:

-> From <mike.davis@dcsol.com> Tue, 03 Jun 2003 12:13:11 -0800 remote from
dcsol.com
-> Received: by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP Router v5.6.450.61)
-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 12:13:11 -0800
-> Received: from LIVINGROOM ([192.168.0.100]) EHLO=livingroom
-> by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP v5.6.450.61) with SMTP
-> id 196856468; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 12:13:11 -0800
-> Message-ID: <004201c32a0c$9536da40$6400a8c0@livingroom>
-> From: "Mike Davis" <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
-> To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
-> References: <15c.1f647217.2c0d885a@aol.com> <001701c329f7$09a3da60
$6501a8c0@attbi.com>
-> Subject: Re: Moose Elevator Tips
-> Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 12:13:22 -0800
-> X-Orig-MIME-Version: 1.0
-> X-Orig-Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
-> X-Orig-Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
-> X-Priority: 3
-> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
-> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
-> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
->
-> I had planned to stick with the aluminum v-stab fairing that was on the
-> original SR. Has anybody every figured out how much area this adds to the
-> stab? As you can see in the pictures of Chris Gill's SR, he has the
-> original fairing and the ventral fin... he reported it very easy to fly.
-> Any problems with yaw stability Chris? This is the configuration I had
-> planned on using. Do you think the fins on the h-stab are still necessary?
->
-> Thanks, Mike
->
-> ----- Original Message -----
-> From: "Al & Deb Paxhia" <paxhia2@attbi.com>
-> To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
-> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 9:39 AM
-> Subject: Re: Moose Elevator Tips
->
->
-> > The airplane has a yaw stability problem with floats. This is common with
-> > most float planes. All of the extra stuff is to compensate for lack of
-> > vertical fin area. The Moose amphibs are 600 lb. hanging under the
-> airplane.
-> > Without the fix, in other than calm air you are always on the controls,
-> > stick and rudder are in constant motion.
-> > Al
-> > ----- Original Message -----
-> > From: <Nielsenbe@aol.com>
-> > To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
-> > Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 10:12 PM
-> > Subject: Re: Moose Elevator Tips
-> >
-> >
-> > > can someone enlighten the slow guy? What are the fins for? Pro's and
-> cons
-> > > please.
-> > >
-> > > Thanks, Brad
-> > > starting out SR222
->




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How you add Xtra surface area for float operation is going to be a personal
choice for everyone.

Just keep in mind that what this extra surface does is help the airplane
weather cock into the wind (whether you like it or not), or to give you
enough slip stream side surface for a high power plow turn in heavy winds to
get turned down wind on the water. I would want this extra tail surface to
be removable for the transition back to wheels, as it sure could make for
some interesting x-wind landings on pavement!! ;o((

My 3 cents and with the Cdn dollar at .73/1.00 US$ it's >now< worth more
than 2 cents!!

Cheers,
Wayne O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca
oifa@irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Saxton" <tim.saxton@shaw.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 1:12 AM
Subject: Re: Moose Elevator Tips

Britt, another option is the larger vertical fin extension/fairing offered
by Ryan Mowat at http://www.forge-industrial.com/CGASR/. This adds 2.5 sq.
ft. of area to the fin. Presumably this will be enough area - a ventral

fin

or other solutions will not required for floats.

Tim
SR060


----- Original Message -----
From: "Reed, Britt/FSC Salt Lake" <BReed@slcrail.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 11:00 AM
Subject: Moose Elevator Tips

Wayne - I was looking in the archives and found a reference to your
"Pilatus Porter/Kenmore Air Beaver style tip fences"
Are there any pictures in the files?
I am going to add the elevator tip cover like yours in the photo but was
wondering if there was anything to gain by adding a "Tip Fence"

Component.
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