Dorsal Fin installation

Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:18 pm

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From: Johannes.Laubenthal@t-online.de (Johannes Laubenthal)

Hi !
Does anybody has already installed a dorsal fin for the rebel? I have a
prefolded skin in my Kit but no information to install it . What about an
offset (FIN about 3/4 inch for Lycoming engine)? What rivet space to attach
to
the Tailskin? What rivet space and where to attach it to the FIN ? Sanding
(
cutting out) edge of the dorsal fin or sanding (cutting out) leading edge of
the
FIN in order to put the parts together??
Johannes Laubenthal R 603

Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:18 pm

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From: "Alister Yeoman" <yeoman@voyager.co.nz>
To: "Murphy Rebel" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Dorsal Fin installation
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Hi there,

I fitted a dorsal fin to my Rebel, as with you there were no instructions
so I just charged ahead.

With the 0-320 I offset my fin 3/4", it has turned out spot on in flight. I
then paralleled the fuse forward from there with the dorsal fin, it seemed
the only logical thing to do with it.

Rivet spacing on the fuse of around an 1 1/4" seemed to be OK, if I ran
over the top of any other existing rivets I removed and dimpled them, and
put in coutersunk rivets. I attached the dorsal fin to the vertical fin
just forward of the rivet line that attaches the leading edge of the
vertical fin. I put a little peice of rubber type edging around the top
where the dorsal fin joins the vertical fin.

I did find it was quite difficult to keep the dorsal fin symetrical because
of the small bend from the offset of the vertical fin, so I used a thick
peice of foam rubber to pack out the dorsal fin, I left it in there.

Hope this helps.

Alister

----------

From: Johannes Laubenthal <Johannes.Laubenthal@t-online.de>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Dorsal Fin installation
Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 8:53 AM

Hi !
Does anybody has already installed a dorsal fin for the rebel? I have a
prefolded skin in my Kit but no information to install it . What about an

offset (FIN about 3/4 inch for Lycoming engine)? What rivet space to

attach to

the Tailskin? What rivet space and where to attach it to the FIN ?

Sanding (

cutting out) edge of the dorsal fin or sanding (cutting out) leading edge

of the

FIN in order to put the parts together??
Johannes Laubenthal R 603

Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:18 pm

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To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com> (Murphy Rebel)
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
Subject: Re: Dorsal Fin installation
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Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:53:35 -0500

The dorsal fin should be straight down the middle of the fuselage -
several builders have NOT offset the vertical fin, either. (The offset
is only good for ONE speed and power setting anyway, and it is a LOT
easier to install the fin without the offset ! A tab on the rudder takes
care of adjustment, if required.)

Rivet spacing similar to that used on the skins at the bulkheads
should do. DO NOT cut the leading edge of the vertical fin - it's
structural. The dorsal fin is strictly cosmetic - it's not even needed
aerodynamically. A strip of rubber 'U' channel around the end of the
dorsal fin should keep it tight to the vertical, without allowing it
to saw into the vertical leading edge.

HTH .....bobp

-----------------------------orig.-------------------------------------
At 08:53 PM 2/1/99 +0100, you wrote:

Hi !
Does anybody has already installed a dorsal fin for the rebel? I have a
prefolded skin in my Kit but no information to install it . What about an
offset (FIN about 3/4 inch for Lycoming engine)? What rivet space to attach

to

the Tailskin? What rivet space and where to attach it to the FIN ?

Sanding (

cutting out) edge of the dorsal fin or sanding (cutting out) leading edge

of the

FIN in order to put the parts together??
Johannes Laubenthal R 603

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Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:18 pm

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Subject: RE: Dorsal Fin installation
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Bobp:

Is that a recommendation against what the instruction manual says about
offsetting the vertical stab? It seems to me that a tab would almost
certainly be required if there were no preset offset....

Do you know of any big engine Rebels (O-320) that have no offset? How much
tab is required in terms of size?

Curious....

Tim

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson [mailto:bob.patterson@canrem.com]
Sent: Monday, February 01, 1999 1:54 PM
To: Murphy Rebel
Subject: Re: Dorsal Fin installation

The dorsal fin should be straight down the middle of the fuselage -
several builders have NOT offset the vertical fin, either. (The offset
is only good for ONE speed and power setting anyway, and it is a LOT
easier to install the fin without the offset ! A tab on the rudder takes
care of adjustment, if required.)

Rivet spacing similar to that used on the skins at the bulkheads
should do. DO NOT cut the leading edge of the vertical fin - it's
structural. The dorsal fin is strictly cosmetic - it's not even needed
aerodynamically. A strip of rubber 'U' channel around the end of the
dorsal fin should keep it tight to the vertical, without allowing it
to saw into the vertical leading edge.

HTH .....bobp

-----------------------------orig.-------------------------------------
At 08:53 PM 2/1/99 +0100, you wrote:

Hi !
Does anybody has already installed a dorsal fin for the rebel? I have a
prefolded skin in my Kit but no information to install it . What about an
offset (FIN about 3/4 inch for Lycoming engine)? What rivet space to attach

to

the Tailskin? What rivet space and where to attach it to the FIN ?

Sanding (

cutting out) edge of the dorsal fin or sanding (cutting out) leading edge

of the

FIN in order to put the parts together??
Johannes Laubenthal R 603

Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:18 pm

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To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com> (Murphy Rebel)
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
Subject: RE: Dorsal Fin installation
Message-Id: <E107S0f-0007cB-00@mail2.toronto.istar.net>
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:40:02 -0500

Just a suggestion - had several long discussions with Mike Davey when
he was building his Rebel. He decided NOT to offset the fin, because
any offset is only effective at ONE speed and power setting, and because
installing the fin with the offset was a pain in the attach bolt area.

It is working very well, and he didn't need a tab for his O-235.
I have a tab on my 912 Rebel (which has no offset). The tab is about
4 " long, and about 2" wide, and is bent over about 1/4" - this is too much
!

Some of the P-factor considerations are already handled in the
engine mount offset, and this can be adjusted with washers, if needed.

Mike is no lightweight - he retired as Vice-President of Engineering
at De Havilland a few years ago, and is currently building his own
custom designed aircraft. He put considerable thought into his decision,
and it seems to be satisfactory.

Some other considerations were - the problems if you offset TOO FAR,
and the possibility of changing to an engine that turned in the OPPOSITE
direction, sometime later....

......bobp

--------------------------------orig.----------------------------------
At 02:03 PM 2/1/99 -0800, you wrote:

Bobp:

Is that a recommendation against what the instruction manual says about
offsetting the vertical stab? It seems to me that a tab would almost
certainly be required if there were no preset offset....

Do you know of any big engine Rebels (O-320) that have no offset? How much
tab is required in terms of size?

Curious....

Tim

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson [mailto:bob.patterson@canrem.com]
Sent: Monday, February 01, 1999 1:54 PM
To: Murphy Rebel
Subject: Re: Dorsal Fin installation

The dorsal fin should be straight down the middle of the fuselage -
several builders have NOT offset the vertical fin, either. (The offset
is only good for ONE speed and power setting anyway, and it is a LOT
easier to install the fin without the offset ! A tab on the rudder takes
care of adjustment, if required.)

Rivet spacing similar to that used on the skins at the bulkheads
should do. DO NOT cut the leading edge of the vertical fin - it's
structural. The dorsal fin is strictly cosmetic - it's not even needed
aerodynamically. A strip of rubber 'U' channel around the end of the
dorsal fin should keep it tight to the vertical, without allowing it
to saw into the vertical leading edge.

HTH .....bobp

-----------------------------orig.-------------------------------------
At 08:53 PM 2/1/99 +0100, you wrote:
Hi !
Does anybody has already installed a dorsal fin for the rebel? I have a
prefolded skin in my Kit but no information to install it . What about an
offset (FIN about 3/4 inch for Lycoming engine)? What rivet space to

attach

to
the Tailskin? What rivet space and where to attach it to the FIN ?
Sanding (
cutting out) edge of the dorsal fin or sanding (cutting out) leading edge
of the
FIN in order to put the parts together??
Johannes Laubenthal R 603

Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:18 pm

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From: "Alister Yeoman" <yeoman@voyager.co.nz>
To: "Murphy Rebel" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Dorsal Fin installation
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:01:58 +1300
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If I had to do mine again I would still leave the 3/4" offset in with the
0-320 motor, I put a trim tab on the rudder in anticipation of needing one,
its now sitting there with no bend in it at all, the set up is near to
perfect.

Alister

----------

From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: Murphy Rebel <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: RE: Dorsal Fin installation
Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 11:40 AM

Just a suggestion - had several long discussions with Mike Davey when
he was building his Rebel. He decided NOT to offset the fin, because
any offset is only effective at ONE speed and power setting, and because
installing the fin with the offset was a pain in the attach bolt area.

It is working very well, and he didn't need a tab for his O-235.
I have a tab on my 912 Rebel (which has no offset). The tab is about
4 " long, and about 2" wide, and is bent over about 1/4" - this is too

much !

Some of the P-factor considerations are already handled in the
engine mount offset, and this can be adjusted with washers, if needed.

Mike is no lightweight - he retired as Vice-President of Engineering
at De Havilland a few years ago, and is currently building his own
custom designed aircraft. He put considerable thought into his decision,
and it seems to be satisfactory.

Some other considerations were - the problems if you offset TOO FAR,
and the possibility of changing to an engine that turned in the OPPOSITE
direction, sometime later....

......bobp

--------------------------------orig.----------------------------------
At 02:03 PM 2/1/99 -0800, you wrote:
Bobp:

Is that a recommendation against what the instruction manual says about
offsetting the vertical stab? It seems to me that a tab would almost
certainly be required if there were no preset offset....

Do you know of any big engine Rebels (O-320) that have no offset? How

much

tab is required in terms of size?

Curious....

Tim

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson [mailto:bob.patterson@canrem.com]
Sent: Monday, February 01, 1999 1:54 PM
To: Murphy Rebel
Subject: Re: Dorsal Fin installation

The dorsal fin should be straight down the middle of the fuselage -
several builders have NOT offset the vertical fin, either. (The offset
is only good for ONE speed and power setting anyway, and it is a LOT
easier to install the fin without the offset ! A tab on the rudder takes
care of adjustment, if required.)

Rivet spacing similar to that used on the skins at the bulkheads
should do. DO NOT cut the leading edge of the vertical fin - it's
structural. The dorsal fin is strictly cosmetic - it's not even needed
aerodynamically. A strip of rubber 'U' channel around the end of the
dorsal fin should keep it tight to the vertical, without allowing it
to saw into the vertical leading edge.

HTH .....bobp

-----------------------------orig.-------------------------------------
At 08:53 PM 2/1/99 +0100, you wrote:
Hi !
Does anybody has already installed a dorsal fin for the rebel? I have a
prefolded skin in my Kit but no information to install it . What about

an

offset (FIN about 3/4 inch for Lycoming engine)? What rivet space to

attach

to
the Tailskin? What rivet space and where to attach it to the FIN ?
Sanding (
cutting out) edge of the dorsal fin or sanding (cutting out) leading

edge

of the
FIN in order to put the parts together??
Johannes Laubenthal R 603

Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:18 pm

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Hi There

As you know, the manual tells you explicity to offset the vertical fin left
or
right depending upon the rotation direction of the engine used. I think it
says 1/2" but is stated clearly. For those without installation
instructions,
the dorsal fin comes with quite good installation instructions re: rivet
spacing etc. actual pictures of installation steps. This area of
instructions
is well above average for the balance of the manual, so those without can
call
MAM for the paperwork. There are silent although on the question of fin
offset i.e. if you offset the fin per the manual, do you continue the offset
started or do you turn back straight up and down the fuselage. They should
be
clearer on this.

Brian #328R

Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:18 pm

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Subject: RE: Dorsal Fin installation
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Alister:

Did you apply any offset to the motor mount?

BTW, are you any where near Auckland? I have been know to be there
occasionally on my way to Melbourne.

Tim

-----Original Message-----
From: Alister Yeoman [mailto:yeoman@voyager.co.nz]
Sent: Monday, February 01, 1999 3:02 PM
To: Murphy Rebel
Subject: Re: Dorsal Fin installation

If I had to do mine again I would still leave the 3/4" offset in with the
0-320 motor, I put a trim tab on the rudder in anticipation of needing one,
its now sitting there with no bend in it at all, the set up is near to
perfect.

Alister

----------

From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: Murphy Rebel <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: RE: Dorsal Fin installation
Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 11:40 AM

Just a suggestion - had several long discussions with Mike Davey when
he was building his Rebel. He decided NOT to offset the fin, because
any offset is only effective at ONE speed and power setting, and because
installing the fin with the offset was a pain in the attach bolt area.

It is working very well, and he didn't need a tab for his O-235.
I have a tab on my 912 Rebel (which has no offset). The tab is about
4 " long, and about 2" wide, and is bent over about 1/4" - this is too

much !

Some of the P-factor considerations are already handled in the
engine mount offset, and this can be adjusted with washers, if needed.

Mike is no lightweight - he retired as Vice-President of Engineering
at De Havilland a few years ago, and is currently building his own
custom designed aircraft. He put considerable thought into his decision,
and it seems to be satisfactory.

Some other considerations were - the problems if you offset TOO FAR,
and the possibility of changing to an engine that turned in the OPPOSITE
direction, sometime later....

......bobp

--------------------------------orig.----------------------------------
At 02:03 PM 2/1/99 -0800, you wrote:
Bobp:

Is that a recommendation against what the instruction manual says about
offsetting the vertical stab? It seems to me that a tab would almost
certainly be required if there were no preset offset....

Do you know of any big engine Rebels (O-320) that have no offset? How

much

tab is required in terms of size?

Curious....

Tim

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson [mailto:bob.patterson@canrem.com]
Sent: Monday, February 01, 1999 1:54 PM
To: Murphy Rebel
Subject: Re: Dorsal Fin installation

The dorsal fin should be straight down the middle of the fuselage -
several builders have NOT offset the vertical fin, either. (The offset
is only good for ONE speed and power setting anyway, and it is a LOT
easier to install the fin without the offset ! A tab on the rudder takes
care of adjustment, if required.)

Rivet spacing similar to that used on the skins at the bulkheads
should do. DO NOT cut the leading edge of the vertical fin - it's
structural. The dorsal fin is strictly cosmetic - it's not even needed
aerodynamically. A strip of rubber 'U' channel around the end of the
dorsal fin should keep it tight to the vertical, without allowing it
to saw into the vertical leading edge.

HTH .....bobp

-----------------------------orig.-------------------------------------
At 08:53 PM 2/1/99 +0100, you wrote:
Hi !
Does anybody has already installed a dorsal fin for the rebel? I have a
prefolded skin in my Kit but no information to install it . What about

an

offset (FIN about 3/4 inch for Lycoming engine)? What rivet space to

attach

to
the Tailskin? What rivet space and where to attach it to the FIN ?
Sanding (
cutting out) edge of the dorsal fin or sanding (cutting out) leading

edge

of the
FIN in order to put the parts together??
Johannes Laubenthal R 603

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Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:18 pm

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By the way,,,

Installing the fin with or without offset makes no difference it all. The
whole installation steps for this job is easy whether or not there is an
offset. The only difference of note is what Alister mentioned of
countersinking 2 or 3 rivets if the there is an offset. In the scheme of
things, that is nothing.

Brian #328R

Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:18 pm

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Taking this argument further, having the fin neutral would also be only
effective at one speed only. Best to have it in the middle of whatever
setting is best. Whatever that is!!

Brian #328R

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Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:18 pm

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From: "Alister Yeoman" <yeoman@voyager.co.nz>
To: "Murphy Rebel" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Dorsal Fin installation
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Tim,

No, I applied no offset to the motor, and I ran the dorsal fin parallel to
the fuse from the front of the vertical fin.

I am afraid not, we live just south of ChristChurch in the South Island,
there is an International Airport there so it may be possible to route that
way.

Cheers

Alister

----------

From: Tim Carter <tlcarter@email.msn.com>
To: 'Murphy Rebel' <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: RE: Dorsal Fin installation
Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 12:10 PM

Alister:

Did you apply any offset to the motor mount?

BTW, are you any where near Auckland? I have been know to be there
occasionally on my way to Melbourne.

Tim

-----Original Message-----
From: Alister Yeoman [mailto:yeoman@voyager.co.nz]
Sent: Monday, February 01, 1999 3:02 PM
To: Murphy Rebel
Subject: Re: Dorsal Fin installation

If I had to do mine again I would still leave the 3/4" offset in with the
0-320 motor, I put a trim tab on the rudder in anticipation of needing

one,

its now sitting there with no bend in it at all, the set up is near to
perfect.

Alister

----------
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: Murphy Rebel <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: RE: Dorsal Fin installation
Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 11:40 AM

Just a suggestion - had several long discussions with Mike Davey

when

he was building his Rebel. He decided NOT to offset the fin, because
any offset is only effective at ONE speed and power setting, and

because

installing the fin with the offset was a pain in the attach bolt area.

It is working very well, and he didn't need a tab for his O-235.
I have a tab on my 912 Rebel (which has no offset). The tab is about
4 " long, and about 2" wide, and is bent over about 1/4" - this is too
much !
Some of the P-factor considerations are already handled in the
engine mount offset, and this can be adjusted with washers, if needed.

Mike is no lightweight - he retired as Vice-President of

Engineering

at De Havilland a few years ago, and is currently building his own
custom designed aircraft. He put considerable thought into his

decision,

and it seems to be satisfactory.

Some other considerations were - the problems if you offset TOO

FAR,

and the possibility of changing to an engine that turned in the

OPPOSITE

direction, sometime later....

......bobp

--------------------------------orig.----------------------------------
At 02:03 PM 2/1/99 -0800, you wrote:
Bobp:

Is that a recommendation against what the instruction manual says

about

offsetting the vertical stab? It seems to me that a tab would almost
certainly be required if there were no preset offset....

Do you know of any big engine Rebels (O-320) that have no offset? How
much
tab is required in terms of size?

Curious....

Tim

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson [mailto:bob.patterson@canrem.com]
Sent: Monday, February 01, 1999 1:54 PM
To: Murphy Rebel
Subject: Re: Dorsal Fin installation

The dorsal fin should be straight down the middle of the fuselage

-

several builders have NOT offset the vertical fin, either. (The offset
is only good for ONE speed and power setting anyway, and it is a LOT
easier to install the fin without the offset ! A tab on the rudder

takes

care of adjustment, if required.)

Rivet spacing similar to that used on the skins at the bulkheads
should do. DO NOT cut the leading edge of the vertical fin - it's
structural. The dorsal fin is strictly cosmetic - it's not even needed
aerodynamically. A strip of rubber 'U' channel around the end of the
dorsal fin should keep it tight to the vertical, without allowing it
to saw into the vertical leading edge.

HTH .....bobp

-----------------------------orig.-------------------------------------
At 08:53 PM 2/1/99 +0100, you wrote:

a

about

an
attach
to Sanding (
edge
of the

Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:18 pm

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Alister Yeoman wrote:

If I had to do mine again I would still leave the 3/4" offset in with the
0-320 motor, I put a trim tab on the rudder in anticipation of needing

one,

its now sitting there with no bend in it at all, the set up is near to
perfect.

Alister

I have an offset in mine as well and it is straight as an arrow with now
rudder
inputs with the Subaru installation. Originally I had the NSI which turned
the
wrong way and to correct I had to put a large trim tab. I redid the tail
and
put the recommended offset in and it is perfect.

Dave
--
Dave Bangle http://www.subielyc.com/

Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:18 pm

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From: "Lonnie Benson" <lonben@erols.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Dorsal Fin installation
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Johannes:

I asked one of the MAM technical types about the offset for the O-320 and
was told not to bother, leave it straight. I was also told that several of
their pilots who have flown Rebels with and without dorsal fins could not
detect any differences in flying qualities between the two. It appears that
adding a dorsal fin may be more cosmetic than any thing else. Of course
with the O-320 we could probably use the extra weight in the aft end.

-----Original Message-----
From: Johannes Laubenthal <Johannes.Laubenthal@t-online.de>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 3:05 PM
Subject: Dorsal Fin installation

Hi !
Does anybody has already installed a dorsal fin for the rebel? I have a
prefolded skin in my Kit but no information to install it . What about an
offset (FIN about 3/4 inch for Lycoming engine)? What rivet space to attach
to
the Tailskin? What rivet space and where to attach it to the FIN ? Sanding
(
cutting out) edge of the dorsal fin or sanding (cutting out) leading edge of
the
FIN in order to put the parts together??
Johannes Laubenthal R 603

Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:18 pm

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From: "Lonnie Benson" <lonben@erols.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Dorsal Fin installation
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:07:47 -0500
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It was the vertical stabilizer.

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Carter <tlcarter@email.msn.com>
To: 'Murphy Rebel' <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 1:02 PM
Subject: RE: Dorsal Fin installation

Lonnie:

Was that the dorsal fin they suggested leave straight, or is that actually
the vertical stab they suggested leave straight?

Tim

-----Original Message-----
From: Lonnie Benson [mailto:lonben@erols.com]
Sent: Monday, February 01, 1999 8:01 PM
To: Murphy Rebel
Subject: Re: Dorsal Fin installation

Johannes:

I asked one of the MAM technical types about the offset for the O-320 and
was told not to bother, leave it straight. I was also told that several of
their pilots who have flown Rebels with and without dorsal fins could not
detect any differences in flying qualities between the two. It appears

that

adding a dorsal fin may be more cosmetic than any thing else. Of course
with the O-320 we could probably use the extra weight in the aft end.

-----Original Message-----
From: Johannes Laubenthal <Johannes.Laubenthal@t-online.de>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 3:05 PM
Subject: Dorsal Fin installation

Hi !
Does anybody has already installed a dorsal fin for the rebel? I have a
prefolded skin in my Kit but no information to install it . What about an
offset (FIN about 3/4 inch for Lycoming engine)? What rivet space to attach
to
the Tailskin? What rivet space and where to attach it to the FIN ?

Sanding

(
cutting out) edge of the dorsal fin or sanding (cutting out) leading edge

of

the
FIN in order to put the parts together??
Johannes Laubenthal R 603

Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:18 pm

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To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com> (Murphy Rebel)
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
Subject: RE: Dorsal Fin installation
Message-Id: <E107rWI-0004nv-00@mail2.toronto.istar.net>
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:54:23 -0500

FWIW - I believe the standard Murphy mounts include an offset, both
down, and to one side ..............

......bobp

----------------------------------orig.------------------------------
At 03:10 PM 2/1/99 -0800, you wrote:

Alister:

Did you apply any offset to the motor mount?

BTW, are you any where near Auckland? I have been know to be there
occasionally on my way to Melbourne.

Tim

-----Original Message-----
From: Alister Yeoman [mailto:yeoman@voyager.co.nz]
Sent: Monday, February 01, 1999 3:02 PM
To: Murphy Rebel
Subject: Re: Dorsal Fin installation

If I had to do mine again I would still leave the 3/4" offset in with the
0-320 motor, I put a trim tab on the rudder in anticipation of needing one,
its now sitting there with no bend in it at all, the set up is near to
perfect.

Alister

----------
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: Murphy Rebel <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: RE: Dorsal Fin installation
Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 11:40 AM

Just a suggestion - had several long discussions with Mike Davey when
he was building his Rebel. He decided NOT to offset the fin, because
any offset is only effective at ONE speed and power setting, and because
installing the fin with the offset was a pain in the attach bolt area.

It is working very well, and he didn't need a tab for his O-235.
I have a tab on my 912 Rebel (which has no offset). The tab is about
4 " long, and about 2" wide, and is bent over about 1/4" - this is too
much !
Some of the P-factor considerations are already handled in the
engine mount offset, and this can be adjusted with washers, if needed.

Mike is no lightweight - he retired as Vice-President of Engineering
at De Havilland a few years ago, and is currently building his own
custom designed aircraft. He put considerable thought into his decision,
and it seems to be satisfactory.

Some other considerations were - the problems if you offset TOO FAR,
and the possibility of changing to an engine that turned in the OPPOSITE
direction, sometime later....

......bobp

--------------------------------orig.----------------------------------
At 02:03 PM 2/1/99 -0800, you wrote:
Bobp:

Is that a recommendation against what the instruction manual says about
offsetting the vertical stab? It seems to me that a tab would almost
certainly be required if there were no preset offset....

Do you know of any big engine Rebels (O-320) that have no offset? How
much
tab is required in terms of size?

Curious....

Tim

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson [mailto:bob.patterson@canrem.com]
Sent: Monday, February 01, 1999 1:54 PM
To: Murphy Rebel
Subject: Re: Dorsal Fin installation

The dorsal fin should be straight down the middle of the fuselage -
several builders have NOT offset the vertical fin, either. (The offset
is only good for ONE speed and power setting anyway, and it is a LOT
easier to install the fin without the offset ! A tab on the rudder takes
care of adjustment, if required.)

Rivet spacing similar to that used on the skins at the bulkheads
should do. DO NOT cut the leading edge of the vertical fin - it's
structural. The dorsal fin is strictly cosmetic - it's not even needed
aerodynamically. A strip of rubber 'U' channel around the end of the
dorsal fin should keep it tight to the vertical, without allowing it
to saw into the vertical leading edge.

HTH .....bobp

-----------------------------orig.-------------------------------------
At 08:53 PM 2/1/99 +0100, you wrote:
an
attach
to Sanding (
edge
of the