The Murphy Builders Site

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:56 pm**

Hello,

Can the Rebel or Elite actually take a third person. If so what weight would
be max? I know if possible for the third seat there are a lot of variables
involved. Can you comment on both the Rebel and Elite. Also wheels vrs amph
floats for the third person.

Thanks a lot!!!!!
Machzer

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:58 pm**

Hi Wayne

Since you are in front of the computer... ;^) are there any pictures of the
back seat installation or comments on construction? Are these the Cobra seats I
remember reading about somewhere?

We are building an Elite so we will have about 2" (I think) more headroom so
back seats may be more feasable (being 6'-4" I don't plan to try them out
though!) perhaps this might be a good reason for Machzer to go the Elite route.

What is the deal on the floats and passengers, just total weight?

Cheers,

Dave
Francine
elite583.cjb.net

"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:

I really need to get away from this computer, but nobody else jumped in on
this one (again!)!

I have FOUR fully adjustable seats in my Rebel. Been there since day one. I
could sit in the back ones without my head hitting the ceiling before I had
them upholstered but a little tight for me know with the 2" of foam or so
that is on the back seats (I'm 5' -10").

The original purpose was so I could take all 3 kids with me on a cross
country when at time of completion in 1995 they were 7, 10 and 12 years of
age and it worked quite well with even the 100HP Lycoming I had at the time.
My youngest that is now 15 and about 130lbs & 5'6" still can sit back there,
without any problems. Now with the 150HP she can sit in the back, with my
wife and I upfront, full fuel tanks (46gallons), some carry on stuff and she
flies like a dream!. This "configuration" of course makes for a "U/G" entry
in the log book, but we still climb out at 800fpm++ !!

As for what weight you can really put back there it all depends on how much
fuel you need to carry and w & b configurations. If light on fuel and solo I
can carry an extra Lycoming engine at the 43" from datum mark and another
100lbs + of spare parts to go with it and still be well within the aft c of
g limit!

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <rebel@dcsol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 5:25 PM
Subject: BACK SEAT???

Hello,

Can the Rebel or Elite actually take a third person. If so what weight
would
be max? I know if possible for the third seat there are a lot of variables
involved. Can you comment on both the Rebel and Elite. Also wheels vrs
amph
floats for the third person.

Thanks a lot!!!!!
Machzer

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--
David A. Ricker P. Eng.
DARTEC Engineering Inc.
3 Tamarac Drive
Fall River, Nova Scotia
Canada, B2T 1E8
ricker@dbis.ns.ca
Ph. 902-860-0256

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:58 pm**

I really need to get away from this computer, but nobody else jumped in on
this one (again!)!

I have FOUR fully adjustable seats in my Rebel. Been there since day one. I
could sit in the back ones without my head hitting the ceiling before I had
them upholstered but a little tight for me know with the 2" of foam or so
that is on the back seats (I'm 5' -10").

The original purpose was so I could take all 3 kids with me on a cross
country when at time of completion in 1995 they were 7, 10 and 12 years of
age and it worked quite well with even the 100HP Lycoming I had at the time.
My youngest that is now 15 and about 130lbs & 5'6" still can sit back there,
without any problems. Now with the 150HP she can sit in the back, with my
wife and I upfront, full fuel tanks (46gallons), some carry on stuff and she
flies like a dream!. This "configuration" of course makes for a "U/G" entry
in the log book, but we still climb out at 800fpm++ !!

As for what weight you can really put back there it all depends on how much
fuel you need to carry and w & b configurations. If light on fuel and solo I
can carry an extra Lycoming engine at the 43" from datum mark and another
100lbs + of spare parts to go with it and still be well within the aft c of
g limit!

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <rebel@dcsol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 5:25 PM
Subject: BACK SEAT???

Hello,

Can the Rebel or Elite actually take a third person. If so what weight

would

be max? I know if possible for the third seat there are a lot of variables
involved. Can you comment on both the Rebel and Elite. Also wheels vrs

amph

floats for the third person.

Thanks a lot!!!!!
Machzer

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:58 pm**

Yah, you got me there! My back seats are just another complete set of Murphy
seats, adjustable tracks and all (although they may as well be fixed in
place).

U/G is always a safe entry since there are no longer any requirements in
Canada to fill in any items in a journey log other than crew and flight/air
times. I still fill in all the weights anyhow, but the odd time (after the
flight has already occured) you have to be creative with the addition!!

Example. Rebel Gross on floats 1730lb - 1200 empty on amphibs leaves
530usefull load. Full tanks (44gal) = 264lbs so that only leaves 266lbs for
the occupants and their luggage. Generally you would fly amphibs 1/2 tanks
so this would give you 398lb for occupants so everyone better be on a diet
if you want to go with three occupants.

In reallity Howard leaves for Oshkosh with lots if stuff in the airplane,
comes in here with his brother and fills to the brim, takes off up the hill
and clears the 100 foot high trees at the end of my 2000' strip, and the
runway climbs 30 feet to the north as well so he is clearing 130feet ++ in
2000 feet on 150 HP at somewhere around 1950lbs (oops I meant U/G!!)!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Ricker" <ricker@dbis.ns.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: BACK SEAT???

Hi Wayne

Since you are in front of the computer... ;^) are there any pictures of

the

back seat installation or comments on construction? Are these the Cobra

seats I

remember reading about somewhere?

We are building an Elite so we will have about 2" (I think) more headroom

so

back seats may be more feasable (being 6'-4" I don't plan to try them out
though!) perhaps this might be a good reason for Machzer to go the Elite

route.

What is the deal on the floats and passengers, just total weight?

Cheers,

Dave
Francine
elite583.cjb.net

"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:

I really need to get away from this computer, but nobody else jumped in

on

this one (again!)!

I have FOUR fully adjustable seats in my Rebel. Been there since day

one. I

could sit in the back ones without my head hitting the ceiling before I

had

them upholstered but a little tight for me know with the 2" of foam or

so

that is on the back seats (I'm 5' -10").

The original purpose was so I could take all 3 kids with me on a cross
country when at time of completion in 1995 they were 7, 10 and 12 years

of

age and it worked quite well with even the 100HP Lycoming I had at the

time.

My youngest that is now 15 and about 130lbs & 5'6" still can sit back

there,

without any problems. Now with the 150HP she can sit in the back, with

my

wife and I upfront, full fuel tanks (46gallons), some carry on stuff and

she

flies like a dream!. This "configuration" of course makes for a "U/G"

entry

in the log book, but we still climb out at 800fpm++ !!

As for what weight you can really put back there it all depends on how

much

fuel you need to carry and w & b configurations. If light on fuel and

solo I

can carry an extra Lycoming engine at the 43" from datum mark and

another

100lbs + of spare parts to go with it and still be well within the aft c

of

g limit!

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <rebel@dcsol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 5:25 PM
Subject: BACK SEAT???

Hello,

Can the Rebel or Elite actually take a third person. If so what weight
would
be max? I know if possible for the third seat there are a lot of

variables

involved. Can you comment on both the Rebel and Elite. Also wheels vrs
amph
floats for the third person.

Thanks a lot!!!!!
Machzer

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--
David A. Ricker P. Eng.
DARTEC Engineering Inc.
3 Tamarac Drive
Fall River, Nova Scotia
Canada, B2T 1E8
ricker@dbis.ns.ca
Ph. 902-860-0256

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:58 pm**

Hi Machzer !

I know of at least 5 Rebels that have 4 seats in them ....
Two flew with 4 people, on O-235 Lycomings - one of them regularly
carried 4 'standard' adults !! (Don't know how much fuel that
left !! ;-) ) There was even a 912 (80 hp.) Rebel that
flew a cross-country with 2 adults in front and one lying down in
the back trying to sleep !!!

There's no problem flying a Rebel on wheels with 3 or 4
people, although it might be a bit short of head room in the back -
unless you do what one builder did .... He made up cloth sling-seats
that faced backwards - left more headroom, lots of leg room, and
moved the c of g forward to boot !! They also rolled up, so
he could still sleep 2 in the back !

Several have just extended the factory seat rails and added
2 standard Rebel seats.

Those that only had one extra seat usually had it on the
right side, facing the left, to keep away from the mixer controls.

The only considerations are C of G (not really a problem
with larger engines !), and staying under max gross .... this
may require 'creative' math, or just bad scales ! ;-) ;-^)
I know of several Rebels that are routinely flown at 2,000 lb
take-off weight on amphibs .... although this DOES considerably
reduce your G limits, and requires careful flying ( AND not
getting into trouble - or caught !). Don't know what the U.S.
rules are like for gross on homebuilts - in Canada, you MUST
go with the FACTORY-DEFINED gross - for the Rebel, that's
1,650 lb. on wheels, and 1,730 lb. on floats (straight OR amphib).
Maybe you can register there for a bit more, to be 'legal' ???

Amphibs can really chew up the extra weight - it'd be pretty
hard to get 3 in and stay under gross ....

You would definitely be better off with a Rebel if you
want to try the extra passenger - O-320 Rebels typically weigh
between 915 and 960 lb. on wheels, especially if you avoid the
spring gear, and <I've> never seen an Elite that weighed
less than 1,100 lb on wheels !

.....bobp

---------------------------------orig.----------------------------------
At 01:25 PM 4/24/03 -0800, you wrote:

Hello,

Can the Rebel or Elite actually take a third person. If so what weight would
be max? I know if possible for the third seat there are a lot of variables
involved. Can you comment on both the Rebel and Elite. Also wheels vrs amph
floats for the third person.

Thanks a lot!!!!!
Machzer

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:58 pm**

Bobp,

When I registered my Quicksilver last summer, they (FSDO) simply asked me what
the gross was... no documentation necessary. I asked them at the time if I
could increase it later when I replaced the flying wires with larger diameter
wires, and they said no problem, I could make it what ever I wanted.

Mike

On 4/26/2003 11:15 AM, MURPHY-REBEL@DCSOL.COM wrote to MIKE DAVIS:

-> Don't know what the U.S.
-> rules are like for gross on homebuilts - in Canada, you MUST
-> go with the FACTORY-DEFINED gross - for the Rebel, that's
-> 1,650 lb. on wheels, and 1,730 lb. on floats (straight OR amphib).
-> Maybe you can register there for a bit more, to be 'legal' ???
-> .....bobp

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:58 pm**

Hey Bob, were all the elites 0-360 powered or a selection? Curt

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:58 pm**

Both factory Elites had O-360's - I think the other one
had an O-320 ... I only know for certain of 3 <flying> Elites.
Others, please chime in !
.....bobp

--------------------------------orig.-----------------------------
At 04:51 PM 4/26/03 EDT, you wrote:

Hey Bob, were all the elites 0-360 powered or a selection? Curt

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