The Murphy Builders Site

Hello All


Rudder and elevator cables.
Sounds like the delrin bearing in the back is noisy.
Can you put lithium grease on the cable?

Somebody must know?????

Thanks

Murray


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Murray,

Wayne O'shea posted this info to the list on 1/26/2000 re lubricating Delrin:

Hello All,

I was working away on a set of SR wings today and while installing the torque
tube (and spraying it with silicon) started thinking about comments I've read
here previously. Many have given the advice not to lubricate the Delrin
Bearings or you will be sorry.

As many of you know I have co-owned a Plastic Injection Moulding business for
over 15 years. We have moulded numerous high precision components from various
grades of Delrin over the years, spanning from intricate seat belt locking
mechanisms for Bendix and TRW, to vertical window blind gear boxes for the
consumer market. We found that the vertical blind gear boxes would start to
squeak (sound like nails on a chalk board) within weeks of being put in a
sunny window as the "self lubricating" properties of the Delrin seemed to
disappear, causing them to be returned by the customers. These gear boxes are
manufactured from the identical grade of Delrin as the torque tube bushings
supplied with your kit and Dupont was of no help at all!

With over $750M invested in moulds to manufacture the various components for
our window covering line, we had no choice but to test every possible product
under the sun to find a cure for this problem. We learned very quickly
that "silicon" is not manufactured the same by anyone!!! We tried Dow Corning,
Champion and many others! Sprays and liquids! Most products all leave a gooy
residue(or melt the delrin) and make things worse as some of you are warning
about.

The only silicon we found that works properly ( we haven't had a gear box
returned in over 11 years and we sell over one million pieces per year!) is
manufactured by CROWN, Product #68034 and available for industrial use only.
You should be able to buy it from local industrial hardware suppliers if you
want to give it a try.

But please don't tell our competition our trade secret! Keep building it's
worth it in the end!!!!!!

Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca


On 4/24/2003 4:16 AM, CHERKAS@SHAW.CA wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:


-> Hello All
->
->
-> Rudder and elevator cables.
-> Sounds like the delrin bearing in the back is noisy.
-> Can you put lithium grease on the cable?
->
-> Somebody must know?????
->
-> Thanks
->
-> Murray


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Hi Murray,

I'm assuming that you're talking about the little cable guides that the wire
passes through. Are all of you guys satisfied with the cable making
directional changes through these guides? I know that we're not talking
about a lot of force on the cable, but the fact that you can 'feel it rub'
when the controls are moved, sorta bugs me. If there's a bunch of history
of no problems, I'll feel better. In the meantime, I'm kinda leaning on
substituting pulleys where there are directional changes. Any thoughts???

Bill Delcambre
Lafayette, LA


----- Original Message -----
From: "Murray and Carol Cherkas" <cherkas@shaw.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 12:05 AM
Subject: cable grease

Hello All


Rudder and elevator cables.
Sounds like the delrin bearing in the back is noisy.
Can you put lithium grease on the cable?

Somebody must know?????

Thanks

Murray

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Hi Murray !

When you mention Delrin bushings in back, you are talking
about rudder cables, I hope .... the ELEVATOR cables MUST have
pulleys at the very back, as the angle change is too much to be
acceptable to MDRA inspectors (over 3 degrees..).

As for lube, be VERY careful - some will dissolve the
Delrin. Check the archives - Wayne has found a brand of silicone
lube that works !! (Crown ???)

....bobp

----------------------------orig.---------------------------------
At 10:05 PM 4/23/03 -0700, you wrote:

Hello All


Rudder and elevator cables.
Sounds like the delrin bearing in the back is noisy.
Can you put lithium grease on the cable?

Somebody must know?????

Thanks

Murray


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Hi Bill !

These Delrin guides are certainly different, but Aluminum
on Delrin has a very long and happy history in the food service/
manufacturing industry, where ANY lubricants are NOT desirable !
I worried about them in the beginning, but now feel this is a
very acceptable way of keeping cables aligned, and it sure is
'low maintenance' !!

Our original Rebel is now over 13 years old, with over
1,000 hours, and the cables are only a bit 'shiney' near the
bushings - no significant wear. There were NO pulleys in Number 1,
it even had Delrin guides for the elevator cables, which was about
a 20 - 25 degree direction change !! There are Renegades out there
that are 5 years older, and no problems there either....

In several places, adding pulleys would be more difficult,
and might add maintenance headaches later ... generally, Murphy
design philosophy is "Simple, Light, and Strong" - and it works !

If you have an area with a big direction change, and
there's lots of room to mount a pulley, and it makes you feel
better, by all means, go for it ! That's why it's called
EXPERIMENTAL ! ;-) :-) :-)

.....bobp


---------------------------orig.-------------------------------
At 08:39 AM 4/24/03 -0500, you wrote:

Hi Murray,

I'm assuming that you're talking about the little cable guides that the wire
passes through. Are all of you guys satisfied with the cable making
directional changes through these guides? I know that we're not talking
about a lot of force on the cable, but the fact that you can 'feel it rub'
when the controls are moved, sorta bugs me. If there's a bunch of history
of no problems, I'll feel better. In the meantime, I'm kinda leaning on
substituting pulleys where there are directional changes. Any thoughts???

Bill Delcambre
Lafayette, LA


----- Original Message -----
From: "Murray and Carol Cherkas" <cherkas@shaw.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 12:05 AM
Subject: cable grease

Hello All


Rudder and elevator cables.
Sounds like the delrin bearing in the back is noisy.
Can you put lithium grease on the cable?

Somebody must know?????

Thanks

Murray

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Also be advised that the cable guides ARE NOT "DELRIN" (acetate), but
instead they are moulded from nylon!!!!

I don't bother lubing any of the front ones and any of the noisy ones in the
back I just use white lithium on them, but don't use so much that you are
picking up dirt!!

Also Bill, no I do not like making any substantial angle changes using the
guides, especially if it's a pulling direction away from mounting as they
will actually pull off the mounting surface before you can damage the guide
itself. This is especially true in a Rebel when training someone and you
both jump on the rudder pedals!!. Anything over 3 degrees is supposed to
have a pulley. I haven't got far enough into the SR to know all the spots,
but the base Rebel (and imagine Elite identical) needs pulleys on both
elevator cables in the rear of the tailcone as they shoot up to the elevator
mixer and at least one to bring the top cable down off the upper control
column horn between the seats (otherwise to keep the angle down you would
have a cable going across the baggage area about 7" above the floor). The
rudder cables need a minimum of a pulley on each side at the transition from
cabin to cone (approx 15* change). You also need to get the cables out as
close to the fuselage sides as possible on the pedal ends and depending how
observant (read: much of a prick) the inspector is he may snag you where the
cables exit the cone to the rudder as this always seems to end up +5* or
more, but at least is a down against force on the last guide.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <apat@istar.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 12:03 PM
Subject: Re: cable grease

Hi Murray !

When you mention Delrin bushings in back, you are talking
about rudder cables, I hope .... the ELEVATOR cables MUST have
pulleys at the very back, as the angle change is too much to be
acceptable to MDRA inspectors (over 3 degrees..).

As for lube, be VERY careful - some will dissolve the
Delrin. Check the archives - Wayne has found a brand of silicone
lube that works !! (Crown ???)

....bobp

----------------------------orig.---------------------------------
At 10:05 PM 4/23/03 -0700, you wrote:

Hello All


Rudder and elevator cables.
Sounds like the delrin bearing in the back is noisy.
Can you put lithium grease on the cable?

Somebody must know?????

Thanks

Murray

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