The Murphy Builders Site

G'day, Rick from the Great Green North (we sent all the
White to Ontario this year). Sorry to hear about your
engine problem, but at least you didn't go down in the
rough.

You're getting an engine all the way from Canada!!?? I
don't know Bart personally, but he is very well known
and regarded in my area, and do know a couple of people
that got engines from him and are very satisfied.

I am using a Sensenich 74 X 54 on floats with my 150 hp
0320, and it is pretty well perfect with top RPM at
straight and level right at 2700. So I think you would
want at least 74 X 56 if not X 58 on wheels if you want
to be just on wheels. Here's a link to the Sensenich
site giving their recommendations for MAM planes. That
swanky ignition should give you a few extra ponies as
well.
http://www.sensenich.com/direct/murphy.htm

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Rick Harper
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 5:40 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: 0-320 Information

G'day from "Below" guys !

Rebel 541R suffered a major bearing failure whilst
flying back from
another state on Sunday morning :-(

Dropped my wife off at a nearby airport ... and limped
home on very
reduced power ... stripped engine out & down , & it's
not pretty inside
:-( :-(

Centre main crank bearing separated the white metal
from the shell (I've
heard on the grapevine, that this has happened "a bit"
of late)

Started the process of rebuilding .... nothing a lot of
money can't fix
:-(

I'll get it back in the air in a month or so .... and
then sell the
engine as a running item "test in plane" kind of
thing.

I'm talking to Bart Lalonde of Canada fame , he's doing
me a short 0-320
E2D ...... can someone tell me the preferred propeller
for a Rebel on
wheels with a 150 or 160 HP engine. (not sure what HP
we'll end up
making it as yet) .... plus twin LSE ignitions and a
crossover exhaust
system will sparkle it's performance up as well)

Jim Stonier's Rebel has a Sensienich 74 X 56" pitch ...
and cruises at
110 KNOTS at 2400 RPM ..... is this a "normal" result
with 150 HP ? -
(which is what Jim has )

Can anyone recommend an oil cooler (aftermarket) which
is good enough to
keep the 0-320 cool in a Rebel ?

I'd also really like to know what INLET air area and
total OUTLET area
- air ducts people are running for an 0-320 ... ?

Thanks all

"Grounded" .... again (for now)

Rick Harper



*------------------------------------------------------
-------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at
http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*------------------------------------------------------
-------------------*




*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*








-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Rick:

Not flying yet. I asked around and bought a 74" x 58 pitch sensenich. One
rebel owner said he cruises at 128 mph. and his climb is good. 160 hp.

Good luck
Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Rick Harper
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 5:40 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: 0-320 Information


G'day from "Below" guys !

Rebel 541R suffered a major bearing failure whilst flying back from
another state on Sunday morning :-(

Dropped my wife off at a nearby airport ... and limped home on very
reduced power ... stripped engine out & down , & it's not pretty inside
:-( :-(

Centre main crank bearing separated the white metal from the shell (I've
heard on the grapevine, that this has happened "a bit" of late)

Started the process of rebuilding .... nothing a lot of money can't fix
:-(

I'll get it back in the air in a month or so .... and then sell the
engine as a running item "test in plane" kind of thing.

I'm talking to Bart Lalonde of Canada fame , he's doing me a short 0-320
E2D ...... can someone tell me the preferred propeller for a Rebel on
wheels with a 150 or 160 HP engine. (not sure what HP we'll end up
making it as yet) .... plus twin LSE ignitions and a crossover exhaust
system will sparkle it's performance up as well)

Jim Stonier's Rebel has a Sensienich 74 X 56" pitch ... and cruises at
110 KNOTS at 2400 RPM ..... is this a "normal" result with 150 HP ? -
(which is what Jim has )

Can anyone recommend an oil cooler (aftermarket) which is good enough to
keep the 0-320 cool in a Rebel ?

I'd also really like to know what INLET air area and total OUTLET area
- air ducts people are running for an 0-320 ... ?

Thanks all

"Grounded" .... again (for now)

Rick Harper



*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*





*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*








-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Rick, I have the 160 HP O320 in my "wheeled Rebel" and am running the metal
Sensenich 74DM-7-0-58. Being a nice 35 Lbs in keeps the engine smooth, slow
idles great, climbs me and 1/2 fuel at 2,000 ft per min, loaded climb is
around 1,500 ft per min with a cruise of 115 MPH at 2200 RPM. If I firewall
the throttle in level flight and allow the engine to reach its red line of
2700 RPM, I will not only exceed the vne but have to fight to keep from
climbing- reflexed or not. I am real happy with my performance but I do know
I will have to drop the pitch when I go to floats.-Bob J Rebel "652" ( for
Murry- My basement was a walk-out on a ravine and I had a nice big picture
window I had to remove from its frame.-I also removed the engine from the
plane first.)



*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*








-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Rick, Sounds like you were asking that O-235 crank to do too much with those
HHHHigh compression slugs in there!

Oil cooler that works in fair temps for the O-320 is the NDM20002A
(replacement for the SW 8406) I would highly suggest though since guys seem
to fight high oil temps in the Rebel for various reasons why not just go up
to the next size cooler NDM20003A and get 3 more cooling fins. This is what
all the 160HP SCubs use with the rear baffle mounting cooler to get the
temps down (even though the STC spells out the 20002) The 20002 is too small
at times and I'd rather be too cool and install a air flow slide, than be
too hot!!

You shouldn't need to change your cowling at all, if it was working for what
you had in there already. I've change mine from 100HP to 150HP and others as
well, and made no cowling changes on any of them!

Prop will depend on your HP decision and what you want to do with it. Climb
like a homesick angle at 2500FPM or cruise at 130MPH. The Rebel sucks for
comfort at that speed, so why not let her climb!!!!! ;o)))

Cheers,
Wayne


----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Harper" <rjwh@ozemail.com.au>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 8:40 PM
Subject: 0-320 Information

G'day from "Below" guys !

Rebel 541R suffered a major bearing failure whilst flying back from
another state on Sunday morning :-(

Dropped my wife off at a nearby airport ... and limped home on very
reduced power ... stripped engine out & down , & it's not pretty inside
:-( :-(

Centre main crank bearing separated the white metal from the shell (I've
heard on the grapevine, that this has happened "a bit" of late)

Started the process of rebuilding .... nothing a lot of money can't fix
:-(

I'll get it back in the air in a month or so .... and then sell the
engine as a running item "test in plane" kind of thing.

I'm talking to Bart Lalonde of Canada fame , he's doing me a short 0-320
E2D ...... can someone tell me the preferred propeller for a Rebel on
wheels with a 150 or 160 HP engine. (not sure what HP we'll end up
making it as yet) .... plus twin LSE ignitions and a crossover exhaust
system will sparkle it's performance up as well)

Jim Stonier's Rebel has a Sensienich 74 X 56" pitch ... and cruises at
110 KNOTS at 2400 RPM ..... is this a "normal" result with 150 HP ? -
(which is what Jim has )

Can anyone recommend an oil cooler (aftermarket) which is good enough to
keep the 0-320 cool in a Rebel ?

I'd also really like to know what INLET air area and total OUTLET area
- air ducts people are running for an 0-320 ... ?

Thanks all

"Grounded" .... again (for now)

Rick Harper

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*




*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*








-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Rick, the NDM (avail direct through Niagara air parts) cooler is cheaper
than the Stewart Warner (I said replacement only because none of us want to
shell out the money for theirs!!).

There is also the POSITECH for experimental aircraft that are even cheaper,
but I know nothing about them.

If you made that much metal, throw away the cooler you have while you still
remember it's contaminated!!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Harper" <rjwh@ozemail.com.au>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 8:02 AM
Subject: Re: 0-320 Information

Thanks heaps Wayne !!!

Do you know if Aircraft Screwup & Specialties ( or anyone else for that
matter ) offer a generic "aftermarket version" of the BIG oil cooler
.... (it gets BLOODY HOY down here at times ! :-)

Rick
----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne G. O'Shea
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: 0-320 Information


Rick, Sounds like you were asking that O-235 crank to do too much with
those
HHHHigh compression slugs in there!

Oil cooler that works in fair temps for the O-320 is the NDM20002A
(replacement for the SW 8406) I would highly suggest though since guys
seem
to fight high oil temps in the Rebel for various reasons why not just
go up
to the next size cooler NDM20003A and get 3 more cooling fins. This is
what
all the 160HP SCubs use with the rear baffle mounting cooler to get
the
temps down (even though the STC spells out the 20002) The 20002 is too
small
at times and I'd rather be too cool and install a air flow slide, than
be
too hot!!

You shouldn't need to change your cowling at all, if it was working
for what
you had in there already. I've change mine from 100HP to 150HP and
others as
well, and made no cowling changes on any of them!

Prop will depend on your HP decision and what you want to do with it.
Climb
like a homesick angle at 2500FPM or cruise at 130MPH. The Rebel sucks
for
comfort at that speed, so why not let her climb!!!!! ;o)))

Cheers,
Wayne


----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Harper" <rjwh@ozemail.com.au>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 8:40 PM
Subject: 0-320 Information

G'day from "Below" guys !

Rebel 541R suffered a major bearing failure whilst flying back

from

another state on Sunday morning :-(

Dropped my wife off at a nearby airport ... and limped home on very
reduced power ... stripped engine out & down , & it's not pretty

inside

:-( :-(

Centre main crank bearing separated the white metal from the shell

(I've

heard on the grapevine, that this has happened "a bit" of late)

Started the process of rebuilding .... nothing a lot of money can't

fix

:-(

I'll get it back in the air in a month or so .... and then sell the
engine as a running item "test in plane" kind of thing.

I'm talking to Bart Lalonde of Canada fame , he's doing me a short

0-320

E2D ...... can someone tell me the preferred propeller for a Rebel

on

wheels with a 150 or 160 HP engine. (not sure what HP we'll end up
making it as yet) .... plus twin LSE ignitions and a crossover

exhaust

system will sparkle it's performance up as well)

Jim Stonier's Rebel has a Sensienich 74 X 56" pitch ... and cruises

at

110 KNOTS at 2400 RPM ..... is this a "normal" result with 150 HP ?

-

(which is what Jim has )

Can anyone recommend an oil cooler (aftermarket) which is good

enough to

keep the 0-320 cool in a Rebel ?

I'd also really like to know what INLET air area and total OUTLET

area

- air ducts people are running for an 0-320 ... ?

Thanks all

"Grounded" .... again (for now)

Rick Harper

*------------------------------------------------------------------------
-*

To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at

http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm

To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com

*------------------------------------------------------------------------
-*





*------------------------------------------------------------------------
-*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com

*------------------------------------------------------------------------
-*

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*




*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*








-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Hey guys, we regularly use the race car oil radiators in experimental
aircraft. They are considerably cheaper than the aircraft units. Try Earls
at 310-900-0433. They also have An fittings at lower prices than Aircraft
Spruce. They also they also have the nice stainless steel braded line and
fittings that you see on the custom aircraft.
George Coy





*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*








-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Either the MAM "floatfix" at the top of the door post, or my original way of
reinforcing this area with a double stagger row of rivets up the post
leaving the last 4 holes at the top of FUS-9 pitched the same but upgraded
to 3/16 rivets. This is easier to do with a windshield in place than to do
the MAM float fix as you have to take the windshield out to do MAM's fix.

Other than that, just bolt her on!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Harper" <rjwh@ozemail.com.au>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 9:48 AM
Subject: Re: 0-320 Information

You're dead right about the cooler ... I have flushed it out 75 times
already & it's STILL spitting out chunks of bearings !

Thanks for the info !

Hey guys.... while we're at it .... are there any "your supposed to know
about that modification" ... regarding fitting an 0-320 ... that I
should know about NOW ..before I fit one !?!

I've done the Wayne mods on the firewall (well, the triangular ones at
the top anyway) ..... but are there any other "You MUST do this mod"
things I'm supposed to know about re the 0-320 ?

Thanks All !

Rick
(Biggus) .... think Monty Python !
----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne G. O'Shea
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 11:07 PM
Subject: Re: 0-320 Information


Rick, the NDM (avail direct through Niagara air parts) cooler is
cheaper
than the Stewart Warner (I said replacement only because none of us
want to
shell out the money for theirs!!).

There is also the POSITECH for experimental aircraft that are even
cheaper,
but I know nothing about them.

If you made that much metal, throw away the cooler you have while you
still
remember it's contaminated!!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Harper" <rjwh@ozemail.com.au>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 8:02 AM
Subject: Re: 0-320 Information

Thanks heaps Wayne !!!

Do you know if Aircraft Screwup & Specialties ( or anyone else for

that

matter ) offer a generic "aftermarket version" of the BIG oil cooler
.... (it gets BLOODY HOY down here at times ! :-)

Rick
----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne G. O'Shea
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: 0-320 Information


Rick, Sounds like you were asking that O-235 crank to do too much

with

those
HHHHigh compression slugs in there!

Oil cooler that works in fair temps for the O-320 is the NDM20002A
(replacement for the SW 8406) I would highly suggest though since

guys

seem
to fight high oil temps in the Rebel for various reasons why not

just

go up
to the next size cooler NDM20003A and get 3 more cooling fins.

This is

what
all the 160HP SCubs use with the rear baffle mounting cooler to

get

the
temps down (even though the STC spells out the 20002) The 20002 is

too

small
at times and I'd rather be too cool and install a air flow slide,

than

be
too hot!!

You shouldn't need to change your cowling at all, if it was

working

for what
you had in there already. I've change mine from 100HP to 150HP and
others as
well, and made no cowling changes on any of them!

Prop will depend on your HP decision and what you want to do with

it.

Climb
like a homesick angle at 2500FPM or cruise at 130MPH. The Rebel

sucks

for
comfort at that speed, so why not let her climb!!!!! ;o)))

Cheers,
Wayne


----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Harper" <rjwh@ozemail.com.au>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 8:40 PM
Subject: 0-320 Information

G'day from "Below" guys !

Rebel 541R suffered a major bearing failure whilst flying

back

from

another state on Sunday morning :-(

Dropped my wife off at a nearby airport ... and limped home on

very

reduced power ... stripped engine out & down , & it's not pretty

inside

:-( :-(

Centre main crank bearing separated the white metal from the

shell

(I've

heard on the grapevine, that this has happened "a bit" of late)

Started the process of rebuilding .... nothing a lot of money

can't

fix

:-(

I'll get it back in the air in a month or so .... and then sell

the

engine as a running item "test in plane" kind of thing.

I'm talking to Bart Lalonde of Canada fame , he's doing me a

short

0-320

E2D ...... can someone tell me the preferred propeller for a

Rebel

on

wheels with a 150 or 160 HP engine. (not sure what HP we'll end

up

making it as yet) .... plus twin LSE ignitions and a crossover

exhaust

system will sparkle it's performance up as well)

Jim Stonier's Rebel has a Sensienich 74 X 56" pitch ... and

cruises

at

110 KNOTS at 2400 RPM ..... is this a "normal" result with 150

HP ?

-

(which is what Jim has )

Can anyone recommend an oil cooler (aftermarket) which is good

enough to

keep the 0-320 cool in a Rebel ?

I'd also really like to know what INLET air area and total

OUTLET

area

- air ducts people are running for an 0-320 ... ?

Thanks all

"Grounded" .... again (for now)

Rick Harper

*------------------------------------------------------------------------

-*

To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at

http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm

To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com

*------------------------------------------------------------------------

-*

*------------------------------------------------------------------------

-*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at

http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm

To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com

*------------------------------------------------------------------------

-*

*------------------------------------------------------------------------
-*

To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at

http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm

To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com

*------------------------------------------------------------------------
-*





*------------------------------------------------------------------------
-*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com

*------------------------------------------------------------------------

-*

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*




*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*








-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Hi There

You will be able to hit 128 mph all right, but the rpm will be high. The
pitch is too fine & you will have to be careful not to overrev.

Brian #328R

At 10:27 PM 04/10/2003 -0700, you wrote:

Hello Rick:

Not flying yet. I asked around and bought a 74" x 58 pitch sensenich. One
rebel owner said he cruises at 128 mph. and his climb is good. 160 hp.

Good luck
Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Rick Harper
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 5:40 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: 0-320 Information


G'day from "Below" guys !

Rebel 541R suffered a major bearing failure whilst flying back from
another state on Sunday morning :-(

Dropped my wife off at a nearby airport ... and limped home on very
reduced power ... stripped engine out & down , & it's not pretty inside
:-( :-(

Centre main crank bearing separated the white metal from the shell (I've
heard on the grapevine, that this has happened "a bit" of late)

Started the process of rebuilding .... nothing a lot of money can't fix
:-(

I'll get it back in the air in a month or so .... and then sell the
engine as a running item "test in plane" kind of thing.

I'm talking to Bart Lalonde of Canada fame , he's doing me a short 0-320
E2D ...... can someone tell me the preferred propeller for a Rebel on
wheels with a 150 or 160 HP engine. (not sure what HP we'll end up
making it as yet) .... plus twin LSE ignitions and a crossover exhaust
system will sparkle it's performance up as well)

Jim Stonier's Rebel has a Sensienich 74 X 56" pitch ... and cruises at
110 KNOTS at 2400 RPM ..... is this a "normal" result with 150 HP ? -
(which is what Jim has )

Can anyone recommend an oil cooler (aftermarket) which is good enough to
keep the 0-320 cool in a Rebel ?

I'd also really like to know what INLET air area and total OUTLET area
- air ducts people are running for an 0-320 ... ?

Thanks all

"Grounded" .... again (for now)

Rick Harper



*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*





*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*








-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

G'day from "Below" guys !

Rebel 541R suffered a major bearing failure whilst flying back from
another state on Sunday morning :-(

Dropped my wife off at a nearby airport ... and limped home on very
reduced power ... stripped engine out & down , & it's not pretty inside
:-( :-(

Centre main crank bearing separated the white metal from the shell (I've
heard on the grapevine, that this has happened "a bit" of late)

Started the process of rebuilding .... nothing a lot of money can't fix
:-(

I'll get it back in the air in a month or so .... and then sell the
engine as a running item "test in plane" kind of thing.

I'm talking to Bart Lalonde of Canada fame , he's doing me a short 0-320
E2D ...... can someone tell me the preferred propeller for a Rebel on
wheels with a 150 or 160 HP engine. (not sure what HP we'll end up
making it as yet) .... plus twin LSE ignitions and a crossover exhaust
system will sparkle it's performance up as well)

Jim Stonier's Rebel has a Sensienich 74 X 56" pitch ... and cruises at
110 KNOTS at 2400 RPM ..... is this a "normal" result with 150 HP ? -
(which is what Jim has )

Can anyone recommend an oil cooler (aftermarket) which is good enough to
keep the 0-320 cool in a Rebel ?

I'd also really like to know what INLET air area and total OUTLET area
- air ducts people are running for an 0-320 ... ?

Thanks all

"Grounded" .... again (for now)

Rick Harper



*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*








-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks Walt ! :-)
----- Original Message -----
From: Walter Klatt
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 11:07 AM
Subject: RE: 0-320 Information


G'day, Rick from the Great Green North (we sent all the
White to Ontario this year). Sorry to hear about your
engine problem, but at least you didn't go down in the
rough.

You're getting an engine all the way from Canada!!?? I
don't know Bart personally, but he is very well known
and regarded in my area, and do know a couple of people
that got engines from him and are very satisfied.

I am using a Sensenich 74 X 54 on floats with my 150 hp
0320, and it is pretty well perfect with top RPM at
straight and level right at 2700. So I think you would
want at least 74 X 56 if not X 58 on wheels if you want
to be just on wheels. Here's a link to the Sensenich
site giving their recommendations for MAM planes. That
swanky ignition should give you a few extra ponies as
well.
http://www.sensenich.com/direct/murphy.htm

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Rick Harper
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 5:40 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: 0-320 Information

G'day from "Below" guys !

Rebel 541R suffered a major bearing failure whilst
flying back from
another state on Sunday morning :-(

Dropped my wife off at a nearby airport ... and limped
home on very
reduced power ... stripped engine out & down , & it's
not pretty inside
:-( :-(

Centre main crank bearing separated the white metal
from the shell (I've
heard on the grapevine, that this has happened "a bit"
of late)

Started the process of rebuilding .... nothing a lot of
money can't fix
:-(

I'll get it back in the air in a month or so .... and
then sell the
engine as a running item "test in plane" kind of
thing.

I'm talking to Bart Lalonde of Canada fame , he's doing
me a short 0-320
E2D ...... can someone tell me the preferred propeller
for a Rebel on
wheels with a 150 or 160 HP engine. (not sure what HP
we'll end up
making it as yet) .... plus twin LSE ignitions and a
crossover exhaust
system will sparkle it's performance up as well)

Jim Stonier's Rebel has a Sensienich 74 X 56" pitch ...
and cruises at
110 KNOTS at 2400 RPM ..... is this a "normal" result
with 150 HP ? -
(which is what Jim has )

Can anyone recommend an oil cooler (aftermarket) which
is good enough to
keep the 0-320 cool in a Rebel ?

I'd also really like to know what INLET air area and
total OUTLET area
- air ducts people are running for an 0-320 ... ?

Thanks all

"Grounded" .... again (for now)

Rick Harper



*------------------------------------------------------
-------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at
http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*------------------------------------------------------
-------------------*





*------------------------------------------------------------------------
-*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com

*------------------------------------------------------------------------
-*







*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*








-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks Bob ! ... starting to get a similar pattern here ... I thought
Jim Stonier was pulling my leg when he said 74 X 56 .... but it looks
about right considering his is a 150 HP model !
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert and Olga Johnson
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: 0-320 Information


Rick, I have the 160 HP O320 in my "wheeled Rebel" and am running the
metal
Sensenich 74DM-7-0-58. Being a nice 35 Lbs in keeps the engine smooth,
slow
idles great, climbs me and 1/2 fuel at 2,000 ft per min, loaded climb
is
around 1,500 ft per min with a cruise of 115 MPH at 2200 RPM. If I
firewall
the throttle in level flight and allow the engine to reach its red
line of
2700 RPM, I will not only exceed the vne but have to fight to keep
from
climbing- reflexed or not. I am real happy with my performance but I
do know
I will have to drop the pitch when I go to floats.-Bob J Rebel "652" (
for
Murry- My basement was a walk-out on a ravine and I had a nice big
picture
window I had to remove from its frame.-I also removed the engine from
the
plane first.)




*------------------------------------------------------------------------
-*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com

*------------------------------------------------------------------------
-*







*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*








-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks heaps Wayne !!!

Do you know if Aircraft Screwup & Specialties ( or anyone else for that
matter ) offer a generic "aftermarket version" of the BIG oil cooler
.... (it gets BLOODY HOY down here at times ! :-)

Rick
----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne G. O'Shea
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: 0-320 Information


Rick, Sounds like you were asking that O-235 crank to do too much with
those
HHHHigh compression slugs in there!

Oil cooler that works in fair temps for the O-320 is the NDM20002A
(replacement for the SW 8406) I would highly suggest though since guys
seem
to fight high oil temps in the Rebel for various reasons why not just
go up
to the next size cooler NDM20003A and get 3 more cooling fins. This is
what
all the 160HP SCubs use with the rear baffle mounting cooler to get
the
temps down (even though the STC spells out the 20002) The 20002 is too
small
at times and I'd rather be too cool and install a air flow slide, than
be
too hot!!

You shouldn't need to change your cowling at all, if it was working
for what
you had in there already. I've change mine from 100HP to 150HP and
others as
well, and made no cowling changes on any of them!

Prop will depend on your HP decision and what you want to do with it.
Climb
like a homesick angle at 2500FPM or cruise at 130MPH. The Rebel sucks
for
comfort at that speed, so why not let her climb!!!!! ;o)))

Cheers,
Wayne


----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Harper" <rjwh@ozemail.com.au>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 8:40 PM
Subject: 0-320 Information

G'day from "Below" guys !

Rebel 541R suffered a major bearing failure whilst flying back

from

another state on Sunday morning :-(

Dropped my wife off at a nearby airport ... and limped home on very
reduced power ... stripped engine out & down , & it's not pretty

inside

:-( :-(

Centre main crank bearing separated the white metal from the shell

(I've

heard on the grapevine, that this has happened "a bit" of late)

Started the process of rebuilding .... nothing a lot of money can't

fix

:-(

I'll get it back in the air in a month or so .... and then sell the
engine as a running item "test in plane" kind of thing.

I'm talking to Bart Lalonde of Canada fame , he's doing me a short

0-320

E2D ...... can someone tell me the preferred propeller for a Rebel

on

wheels with a 150 or 160 HP engine. (not sure what HP we'll end up
making it as yet) .... plus twin LSE ignitions and a crossover

exhaust

system will sparkle it's performance up as well)

Jim Stonier's Rebel has a Sensienich 74 X 56" pitch ... and cruises

at

110 KNOTS at 2400 RPM ..... is this a "normal" result with 150 HP ?

-

(which is what Jim has )

Can anyone recommend an oil cooler (aftermarket) which is good

enough to

keep the 0-320 cool in a Rebel ?

I'd also really like to know what INLET air area and total OUTLET

area

- air ducts people are running for an 0-320 ... ?

Thanks all

"Grounded" .... again (for now)

Rick Harper

*------------------------------------------------------------------------
-*

To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at

http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm

To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com

*------------------------------------------------------------------------
-*





*------------------------------------------------------------------------
-*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com

*------------------------------------------------------------------------
-*







*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*








-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks Murray ! :-)

(this is what I love about the builders group .... good information ,
and lots of it ! )

Rick
----- Original Message -----
From: Murray and Carol Cherkas
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 3:27 PM
Subject: RE: 0-320 Information


Hello Rick:

Not flying yet. I asked around and bought a 74" x 58 pitch sensenich.
One
rebel owner said he cruises at 128 mph. and his climb is good. 160 hp.

Good luck
Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Rick Harper
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 5:40 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: 0-320 Information


G'day from "Below" guys !

Rebel 541R suffered a major bearing failure whilst flying back
from
another state on Sunday morning :-(

Dropped my wife off at a nearby airport ... and limped home on very
reduced power ... stripped engine out & down , & it's not pretty
inside
:-( :-(

Centre main crank bearing separated the white metal from the shell
(I've
heard on the grapevine, that this has happened "a bit" of late)

Started the process of rebuilding .... nothing a lot of money can't
fix
:-(

I'll get it back in the air in a month or so .... and then sell the
engine as a running item "test in plane" kind of thing.

I'm talking to Bart Lalonde of Canada fame , he's doing me a short
0-320
E2D ...... can someone tell me the preferred propeller for a Rebel on
wheels with a 150 or 160 HP engine. (not sure what HP we'll end up
making it as yet) .... plus twin LSE ignitions and a crossover exhaust
system will sparkle it's performance up as well)

Jim Stonier's Rebel has a Sensienich 74 X 56" pitch ... and cruises at
110 KNOTS at 2400 RPM ..... is this a "normal" result with 150 HP ? -
(which is what Jim has )

Can anyone recommend an oil cooler (aftermarket) which is good enough
to
keep the 0-320 cool in a Rebel ?

I'd also really like to know what INLET air area and total OUTLET area
- air ducts people are running for an 0-320 ... ?

Thanks all

"Grounded" .... again (for now)

Rick Harper




*------------------------------------------------------------------------
-*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com

*------------------------------------------------------------------------
-*






*------------------------------------------------------------------------
-*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com

*------------------------------------------------------------------------
-*







*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*








-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Brian,

I'm surprised you have so coarse a pitch on your Sensenich (60"). I have a
74x56 0320 E2D 150 HP and fly out of mostly unimproved strips. I would not
want a coarser prop for the climb would suffer. I still get, plus or minus,
123 MPH cruise at 75% power and am happy with that. I would not want a
coarser prop for the kind of flying I do but I guess it all depends on what
kind of flying a fellow has in mind.

What rate of climb do you have now on the 58"? 62-63 inches of pitch would
make your bird fast but I have to believe it would climb like a sick puppy. I
remember you were disappointed with your prop when you switched out the Warp
Drive. Was the performance on the Warp Drive that much better than the
Sensenich?

Bruce 357R







*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*








-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

You're dead right about the cooler ... I have flushed it out 75 times
already & it's STILL spitting out chunks of bearings !

Thanks for the info !

Hey guys.... while we're at it .... are there any "your supposed to know
about that modification" ... regarding fitting an 0-320 ... that I
should know about NOW ..before I fit one !?!

I've done the Wayne mods on the firewall (well, the triangular ones at
the top anyway) ..... but are there any other "You MUST do this mod"
things I'm supposed to know about re the 0-320 ?

Thanks All !

Rick
(Biggus) .... think Monty Python !
----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne G. O'Shea
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 11:07 PM
Subject: Re: 0-320 Information


Rick, the NDM (avail direct through Niagara air parts) cooler is
cheaper
than the Stewart Warner (I said replacement only because none of us
want to
shell out the money for theirs!!).

There is also the POSITECH for experimental aircraft that are even
cheaper,
but I know nothing about them.

If you made that much metal, throw away the cooler you have while you
still
remember it's contaminated!!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Harper" <rjwh@ozemail.com.au>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 8:02 AM
Subject: Re: 0-320 Information

Thanks heaps Wayne !!!

Do you know if Aircraft Screwup & Specialties ( or anyone else for

that

matter ) offer a generic "aftermarket version" of the BIG oil cooler
.... (it gets BLOODY HOY down here at times ! :-)

Rick
----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne G. O'Shea
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: 0-320 Information


Rick, Sounds like you were asking that O-235 crank to do too much

with

those
HHHHigh compression slugs in there!

Oil cooler that works in fair temps for the O-320 is the NDM20002A
(replacement for the SW 8406) I would highly suggest though since

guys

seem
to fight high oil temps in the Rebel for various reasons why not

just

go up
to the next size cooler NDM20003A and get 3 more cooling fins.

This is

what
all the 160HP SCubs use with the rear baffle mounting cooler to

get

the
temps down (even though the STC spells out the 20002) The 20002 is

too

small
at times and I'd rather be too cool and install a air flow slide,

than

be
too hot!!

You shouldn't need to change your cowling at all, if it was

working

for what
you had in there already. I've change mine from 100HP to 150HP and
others as
well, and made no cowling changes on any of them!

Prop will depend on your HP decision and what you want to do with

it.

Climb
like a homesick angle at 2500FPM or cruise at 130MPH. The Rebel

sucks

for
comfort at that speed, so why not let her climb!!!!! ;o)))

Cheers,
Wayne


----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Harper" <rjwh@ozemail.com.au>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 8:40 PM
Subject: 0-320 Information

G'day from "Below" guys !

Rebel 541R suffered a major bearing failure whilst flying

back

from

another state on Sunday morning :-(

Dropped my wife off at a nearby airport ... and limped home on

very

reduced power ... stripped engine out & down , & it's not pretty

inside

:-( :-(

Centre main crank bearing separated the white metal from the

shell

(I've

heard on the grapevine, that this has happened "a bit" of late)

Started the process of rebuilding .... nothing a lot of money

can't

fix

:-(

I'll get it back in the air in a month or so .... and then sell

the

engine as a running item "test in plane" kind of thing.

I'm talking to Bart Lalonde of Canada fame , he's doing me a

short

0-320

E2D ...... can someone tell me the preferred propeller for a

Rebel

on

wheels with a 150 or 160 HP engine. (not sure what HP we'll end

up

making it as yet) .... plus twin LSE ignitions and a crossover

exhaust

system will sparkle it's performance up as well)

Jim Stonier's Rebel has a Sensienich 74 X 56" pitch ... and

cruises

at

110 KNOTS at 2400 RPM ..... is this a "normal" result with 150

HP ?

-

(which is what Jim has )

Can anyone recommend an oil cooler (aftermarket) which is good

enough to

keep the 0-320 cool in a Rebel ?

I'd also really like to know what INLET air area and total

OUTLET

area

- air ducts people are running for an 0-320 ... ?

Thanks all

"Grounded" .... again (for now)

Rick Harper

*------------------------------------------------------------------------

-*

To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at

http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm

To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com

*------------------------------------------------------------------------

-*

*------------------------------------------------------------------------

-*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at

http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm

To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com

*------------------------------------------------------------------------

-*

*------------------------------------------------------------------------
-*

To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at

http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm

To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com

*------------------------------------------------------------------------
-*





*------------------------------------------------------------------------
-*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com

*------------------------------------------------------------------------
-*







*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*








-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------