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Spring Gear fix ???

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:53 pm
by Mike Davis
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Hi Alister
Regarding the spring gear ... Murphy has been quiet about any changes in
the
area of the sping gear. I talked to Grant about this and it didn't seem to
me
that they were planning a mod or retrofit kit to stengthen the spring gear.
I
would like to know what you did to the gear to strengthen it.
Thanks Jim
JimsRebel@aol.com

Spring Gear fix ???

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:53 pm
by Mike Davis
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From: "Alister Yeoman" <yeoman@voyager.co.nz>
To: "Murphy Rebel" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 15:53:36 +1300
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Hi Jim,

I am very disappointed that Murphy have not addressed this, they told me
they would.

The issue I believe is that the spacer system that holds the outer straddle
bolts on the spring gear is not up to it.

It is poorly designed, firstly, the spacer is the wrong diameter for the
bolt, secondly, because the outer gear bolts are so close to the edge of
the carrythrough the spacer has to be shaped to fit the top corner of the
carrythrough, thirdly, the bottom of the spacer is sitting against the
bottom plates not on the carrythough.

The sequence of events appears to be, as the spring gear is settling in,
the spacer, because it is the wrong diameter ( to big), can move a little
sideways. Then because the spacer is shaped, a little slack develops ( it
only needs to be a few thou ).
Once there is a little room to move things start happening quite quickly,
the front bolt is the one that causes the problem because of the braking
loads, the top of the carrythrough crushes downwards and then starts to
punch the spacer into the bottom plates pushing them away from the
carrythrough and pulling the rivets out.

This is not just a story, it happened to me and I know for a fact there are
others out there with damage in this area.

The perfect fix of course is to mill solid aluminum block inserts for the
carrythrough to capture the outer gear bolts and the three AN3 bolts in
that area, this actually is what I have done and it works really well. The
down side to that is that the side panels have to come of to do this, so it
is not really a good retro fix option. Murphy, they say, have been working
on another fix option, I thought they would have had it sorted by now.

The other thing to do is to retighten the gear bolts very frequently in the
early stages of the taxiing and flying program. The rear outer gear bolt
inspection panel as per the Manual should not be riveted on but should be
made to be easily removed so that tightening the rear bolt is no big drama.
Also I think the lower strut and gear fairings should be left off until say
10hrs have been flown.

I have done these mods, also put .032 panels on the lower rolled corner and
under the doors sills, beefed up the FUS 35 and put two rows of rivets on
each flange on it.

I also moved to 3/8 outer bolts and to 7/16 inner gear bolts, this was my
choice,I am not saying it is necessary

I have also interpiched the doorpost rivets ( doubled up ) and because of
the type of work I am doing with the plane I have fitted 850-6 tyres.

Since the repairs I have done about 25 hrs into some very rough places and
things are holding up really well, I am anticipating no more problems. What
a neat aircraft!!!

I hope this helps.

Cheers

Alister



----------
From: JimsRebel@aol.com
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Spring Gear fix ???
Date: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 12:55 PM

Hi Alister
Regarding the spring gear ... Murphy has been quiet about any changes in
the
area of the sping gear. I talked to Grant about this and it didn't seem
to me
that they were planning a mod or retrofit kit to stengthen the spring
gear. I
would like to know what you did to the gear to strengthen it.
Thanks Jim
JimsRebel@aol.com

Spring Gear fix ???

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:53 pm
by Mike Davis
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Me too.

Jim Remington

JimsRebel@aol.com wrote:
Hi Alister
Regarding the spring gear ... Murphy has been quiet about any changes in
the
area of the sping gear. I talked to Grant about this and it didn't seem to
me
that they were planning a mod or retrofit kit to stengthen the spring
gear. I
would like to know what you did to the gear to strengthen it.
Thanks Jim
JimsRebel@aol.com


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Spring Gear fix ???

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:53 pm
by Mike Davis
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Alister this sounds like some great stuff! ...you wouldn't have pictures
would
you? ...Wray

Alister Yeoman wrote:
Hi Jim,

I am very disappointed that Murphy have not addressed this, they told me
they would.

The issue I believe is that the spacer system that holds the outer
straddle
bolts on the spring gear is not up to it.

It is poorly designed, firstly, the spacer is the wrong diameter for the
bolt, secondly, because the outer gear bolts are so close to the edge of
the carrythrough the spacer has to be shaped to fit the top corner of the
carrythrough, thirdly, the bottom of the spacer is sitting against the
bottom plates not on the carrythough.

The sequence of events appears to be, as the spring gear is settling in,
the spacer, because it is the wrong diameter ( to big), can move a little
sideways. Then because the spacer is shaped, a little slack develops ( it
only needs to be a few thou ).
Once there is a little room to move things start happening quite quickly,
the front bolt is the one that causes the problem because of the braking
loads, the top of the carrythrough crushes downwards and then starts to
punch the spacer into the bottom plates pushing them away from the
carrythrough and pulling the rivets out.

This is not just a story, it happened to me and I know for a fact there
are
others out there with damage in this area.

The perfect fix of course is to mill solid aluminum block inserts for the
carrythrough to capture the outer gear bolts and the three AN3 bolts in
that area, this actually is what I have done and it works really well. The
down side to that is that the side panels have to come of to do this, so
it
is not really a good retro fix option. Murphy, they say, have been working
on another fix option, I thought they would have had it sorted by now.

The other thing to do is to retighten the gear bolts very frequently in
the
early stages of the taxiing and flying program. The rear outer gear bolt
inspection panel as per the Manual should not be riveted on but should be
made to be easily removed so that tightening the rear bolt is no big
drama.
Also I think the lower strut and gear fairings should be left off until
say
10hrs have been flown.

I have done these mods, also put .032 panels on the lower rolled corner
and
under the doors sills, beefed up the FUS 35 and put two rows of rivets on
each flange on it.

I also moved to 3/8 outer bolts and to 7/16 inner gear bolts, this was my
choice,I am not saying it is necessary

I have also interpiched the doorpost rivets ( doubled up ) and because of
the type of work I am doing with the plane I have fitted 850-6 tyres.

Since the repairs I have done about 25 hrs into some very rough places and
things are holding up really well, I am anticipating no more problems.
What
a neat aircraft!!!

I hope this helps.

Cheers

Alister



-
Wray Thompson ...Rebel 306 ...home page http://www.globalserve.net/~cobbg/

Spring Gear fix ???

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:53 pm
by Mike Davis
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From: "Alister Yeoman" <yeoman@voyager.co.nz>
To: "Murphy Rebel" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:08:21 +1300
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Hi Wray,

No, sorry, I'm a bit like that. I dont think I could find a photo of
anything of the entire construction process. The only photos I have of the
damaged area concerned have been sent to Murphy to assist them in their
diagnosis.

I have had just another thought since posting the last message, the problem
with the gear is really two fold. Firstly there is the attachment problem
which I have already described, secondly there was with my aircraft what I
call a load dissipation problem.

This I have already described on this forum at an earlier date, it involves
flexing (panting) of the skins just in front of the door post and movement
( smoking) of the rivets on the door post itself.

This has been solved by the increase in the thickness of the skins in this
area ( lower rolled corner, below door sill etc.) and interpitching the
door post rivets. I should add I also placed a .020 channel inside where
the lower front rolled corner meets the Fus 11 ( I dont have my manual
here, I think thats number for the skin in font of the door post isn't it?)
And placed two rows of rivets there.

I must say, Murphy have been very helpful with this, some of the things I
have done are ideas from them and some are my own additions. They also
asked not to go spreading around my fix because of the fact that I did have
some damage to this area so my fix was likely to be more robust than is
probably required ( also I think they think I treat my aircraft a bit
rough!!), also they would like to be able to come up with a retro fix where
people can modify this area without too much drama.

I reckoned that was fair enough, but when I quietly suggest to people to
talk to them (Murphy) about potential problems in this area, and they
appear to deny there is an issue, I dont think that is fair to builders out
there. Hence the reason I am 'coming out of the closet'. I would hate to be
a builder and not to be fed this sort of info.

If this puts a little pressure on Murphy to ' come clean' then fair enough.

Cheers

Alister

----------
From: Wray Thompson <wrayt@ibm.net>
To: (Murphy Rebel) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???
Date: Wednesday, January 20, 1999 2:55 AM

Alister this sounds like some great stuff! ...you wouldn't have pictures
would
you? ...Wray

Alister Yeoman wrote:
Hi Jim,

I am very disappointed that Murphy have not addressed this, they told
me
they would.

The issue I believe is that the spacer system that holds the outer
straddle
bolts on the spring gear is not up to it.

It is poorly designed, firstly, the spacer is the wrong diameter for
the
bolt, secondly, because the outer gear bolts are so close to the edge
of
the carrythrough the spacer has to be shaped to fit the top corner of
the
carrythrough, thirdly, the bottom of the spacer is sitting against the
bottom plates not on the carrythough.

The sequence of events appears to be, as the spring gear is settling
in,
the spacer, because it is the wrong diameter ( to big), can move a
little
sideways. Then because the spacer is shaped, a little slack develops (
it
only needs to be a few thou ).
Once there is a little room to move things start happening quite
quickly,
the front bolt is the one that causes the problem because of the
braking
loads, the top of the carrythrough crushes downwards and then starts to
punch the spacer into the bottom plates pushing them away from the
carrythrough and pulling the rivets out.

This is not just a story, it happened to me and I know for a fact there
are
others out there with damage in this area.

The perfect fix of course is to mill solid aluminum block inserts for
the
carrythrough to capture the outer gear bolts and the three AN3 bolts in
that area, this actually is what I have done and it works really well.
The
down side to that is that the side panels have to come of to do this,
so it
is not really a good retro fix option. Murphy, they say, have been
working
on another fix option, I thought they would have had it sorted by now.

The other thing to do is to retighten the gear bolts very frequently in
the
early stages of the taxiing and flying program. The rear outer gear
bolt
inspection panel as per the Manual should not be riveted on but should
be
made to be easily removed so that tightening the rear bolt is no big
drama.
Also I think the lower strut and gear fairings should be left off until
say
10hrs have been flown.

I have done these mods, also put .032 panels on the lower rolled corner
and
under the doors sills, beefed up the FUS 35 and put two rows of rivets
on
each flange on it.

I also moved to 3/8 outer bolts and to 7/16 inner gear bolts, this was
my
choice,I am not saying it is necessary

I have also interpiched the doorpost rivets ( doubled up ) and because
of
the type of work I am doing with the plane I have fitted 850-6 tyres.

Since the repairs I have done about 25 hrs into some very rough places
and
things are holding up really well, I am anticipating no more problems.
What
a neat aircraft!!!

I hope this helps.

Cheers

Alister



-
Wray Thompson ...Rebel 306 ...home page
http://www.globalserve.net/~cobbg/



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Spring Gear fix ???

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:53 pm
by Mike Davis
Received: from dialup.voyager.co.nz (ts1p14.net.ashburton.voyager.co.nz
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From: "Alister Yeoman" <yeoman@voyager.co.nz>
To: "Murphy Rebel" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:15:00 +1300
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Opps, Gosh,Have I just spoken out of turn with my last message!!!

Alister

PS
Lonnie, the tappered insert fix is SO strong, you have to run the AN3 bolts
right through the whole carrythough sysem ( I actually increased the
diameter of the two inside bolts to AN4) they tie everything together
really well.

----------
From: Lonnie Benson <lonben@erols.com>
To: Murphy Rebel <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???
Date: Wednesday, January 20, 1999 8:44 AM

Alister:

I talked to MAM Technical Dept. last week and they said that they are
looking at a fix that could be easily retrofitted to completed aircraft.
It's going to take them awhile to complete all of the engineering
analysis
to ensure that the proposed fix does"t create new problems. I believe
they
are looking at a piece that will attach to the door post, go over the top
of
the forward carrythrough and down the front.

Since my lower front corner wraps are not attached I was lookng at
reinforcing the front carrythrough by placing a tapered plug inside, but
I
can wait and see what MAM comes up with.

-----Original Message-----
From: Alister Yeoman <yeoman@voyager.co.nz>
To: Murphy Rebel <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Monday, January 18, 1999 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???

Hi Jim,

I am very disappointed that Murphy have not addressed this, they told me
they would.

The issue I believe is that the spacer system that holds the outer
straddle
bolts on the spring gear is not up to it.

It is poorly designed, firstly, the spacer is the wrong diameter for the
bolt, secondly, because the outer gear bolts are so close to the edge of
the carrythrough the spacer has to be shaped to fit the top corner of
the
carrythrough, thirdly, the bottom of the spacer is sitting against the
bottom plates not on the carrythough.

The sequence of events appears to be, as the spring gear is settling in,
the spacer, because it is the wrong diameter ( to big), can move a
little
sideways. Then because the spacer is shaped, a little slack develops (
it
only needs to be a few thou ).
Once there is a little room to move things start happening quite
quickly,
the front bolt is the one that causes the problem because of the braking
loads, the top of the carrythrough crushes downwards and then starts to
punch the spacer into the bottom plates pushing them away from the
carrythrough and pulling the rivets out.

This is not just a story, it happened to me and I know for a fact there
are
others out there with damage in this area.

The perfect fix of course is to mill solid aluminum block inserts for
the
carrythrough to capture the outer gear bolts and the three AN3 bolts in
that area, this actually is what I have done and it works really well.
The
down side to that is that the side panels have to come of to do this, so
it
is not really a good retro fix option. Murphy, they say, have been
working
on another fix option, I thought they would have had it sorted by now.

The other thing to do is to retighten the gear bolts very frequently in
the
early stages of the taxiing and flying program. The rear outer gear bolt
inspection panel as per the Manual should not be riveted on but should
be
made to be easily removed so that tightening the rear bolt is no big
drama.
Also I think the lower strut and gear fairings should be left off until
say
10hrs have been flown.

I have done these mods, also put .032 panels on the lower rolled corner
and
under the doors sills, beefed up the FUS 35 and put two rows of rivets
on
each flange on it.

I also moved to 3/8 outer bolts and to 7/16 inner gear bolts, this was
my
choice,I am not saying it is necessary

I have also interpiched the doorpost rivets ( doubled up ) and because
of
the type of work I am doing with the plane I have fitted 850-6 tyres.

Since the repairs I have done about 25 hrs into some very rough places
and
things are holding up really well, I am anticipating no more problems.
What
a neat aircraft!!!

I hope this helps.

Cheers

Alister



----------
From: JimsRebel@aol.com
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Spring Gear fix ???
Date: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 12:55 PM

Hi Alister
Regarding the spring gear ... Murphy has been quiet about any changes
in
the
area of the sping gear. I talked to Grant about this and it didn't
seem
to me
that they were planning a mod or retrofit kit to stengthen the spring
gear. I
would like to know what you did to the gear to strengthen it.
Thanks Jim
JimsRebel@aol.com

Spring Gear fix ???

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:53 pm
by Mike Davis
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Alister: Thanks for the very complete answer. I wonder if you would be
willing to fax me a drawing of the milled solid aluminum block inserts you
designed. I have not started on my fuselage yet so I can make any changes
with
ease. However I have already purchased the spring gear. I was very
disappointed with the quality of those parts. Don't know why they didn't
gun
drill the leg for an internal break line before bending. Hanging the
hydraulic
lines on the outside seems a bit behind the times. Since by two gear legs I
got don't seem to match when clamped to a table top, I was wondering what
system is used to adjust the individual legs to get the aircraft to sit
level
and to get the camber on each tire to be correct?

Alister Yeoman wrote:
Hi Jim,

I am very disappointed that Murphy have not addressed this, they told me
they would.

The issue I believe is that the spacer system that holds the outer
straddle
bolts on the spring gear is not up to it.

It is poorly designed, firstly, the spacer is the wrong diameter for the
bolt, secondly, because the outer gear bolts are so close to the edge of
the carrythrough the spacer has to be shaped to fit the top corner of the
carrythrough, thirdly, the bottom of the spacer is sitting against the
bottom plates not on the carrythough.

The sequence of events appears to be, as the spring gear is settling in,
the spacer, because it is the wrong diameter ( to big), can move a little
sideways. Then because the spacer is shaped, a little slack develops ( it
only needs to be a few thou ).
Once there is a little room to move things start happening quite quickly,
the front bolt is the one that causes the problem because of the braking
loads, the top of the carrythrough crushes downwards and then starts to
punch the spacer into the bottom plates pushing them away from the
carrythrough and pulling the rivets out.

This is not just a story, it happened to me and I know for a fact there
are
others out there with damage in this area.

The perfect fix of course is to mill solid aluminum block inserts for the
carrythrough to capture the outer gear bolts and the three AN3 bolts in
that area, this actually is what I have done and it works really well. The
down side to that is that the side panels have to come of to do this, so
it
is not really a good retro fix option. Murphy, they say, have been working
on another fix option, I thought they would have had it sorted by now.

The other thing to do is to retighten the gear bolts very frequently in
the
early stages of the taxiing and flying program. The rear outer gear bolt
inspection panel as per the Manual should not be riveted on but should be
made to be easily removed so that tightening the rear bolt is no big
drama.
Also I think the lower strut and gear fairings should be left off until
say
10hrs have been flown.

I have done these mods, also put .032 panels on the lower rolled corner
and
under the doors sills, beefed up the FUS 35 and put two rows of rivets on
each flange on it.

I also moved to 3/8 outer bolts and to 7/16 inner gear bolts, this was my
choice,I am not saying it is necessary

I have also interpiched the doorpost rivets ( doubled up ) and because of
the type of work I am doing with the plane I have fitted 850-6 tyres.

Since the repairs I have done about 25 hrs into some very rough places and
things are holding up really well, I am anticipating no more problems.
What
a neat aircraft!!!

I hope this helps.

Cheers

Alister



----------
From: JimsRebel@aol.com
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Spring Gear fix ???
Date: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 12:55 PM

Hi Alister
Regarding the spring gear ... Murphy has been quiet about any changes
in
the
area of the sping gear. I talked to Grant about this and it didn't seem
to me
that they were planning a mod or retrofit kit to stengthen the spring
gear. I
would like to know what you did to the gear to strengthen it.
Thanks Jim
JimsRebel@aol.com


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Spring Gear fix ???

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:53 pm
by Mike Davis
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Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:14:05 -0500
From: "James A. Remington" <jaremington@earthlink.net>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: " (Murphy Rebel)" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???
References: <001001be43e4$c3a61ac0$4dfe7ad1@the-benson-s>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Lonnie: It sounds like it's time for me to make another visit to see your
Rebel
before it's all closed in. Any problem with that?

Jim Remington

Lonnie Benson wrote:
Alister:

I talked to MAM Technical Dept. last week and they said that they are
looking at a fix that could be easily retrofitted to completed aircraft.
It's going to take them awhile to complete all of the engineering analysis
to ensure that the proposed fix does"t create new problems. I believe
they
are looking at a piece that will attach to the door post, go over the top
of
the forward carrythrough and down the front.

Since my lower front corner wraps are not attached I was lookng at
reinforcing the front carrythrough by placing a tapered plug inside, but
I
can wait and see what MAM comes up with.

-----Original Message-----
From: Alister Yeoman <yeoman@voyager.co.nz>
To: Murphy Rebel <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Monday, January 18, 1999 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???
Hi Jim,

I am very disappointed that Murphy have not addressed this, they told me
they would.

The issue I believe is that the spacer system that holds the outer
straddle
bolts on the spring gear is not up to it.

It is poorly designed, firstly, the spacer is the wrong diameter for the
bolt, secondly, because the outer gear bolts are so close to the edge of
the carrythrough the spacer has to be shaped to fit the top corner of the
carrythrough, thirdly, the bottom of the spacer is sitting against the
bottom plates not on the carrythough.

The sequence of events appears to be, as the spring gear is settling in,
the spacer, because it is the wrong diameter ( to big), can move a little
sideways. Then because the spacer is shaped, a little slack develops ( it
only needs to be a few thou ).
Once there is a little room to move things start happening quite quickly,
the front bolt is the one that causes the problem because of the braking
loads, the top of the carrythrough crushes downwards and then starts to
punch the spacer into the bottom plates pushing them away from the
carrythrough and pulling the rivets out.

This is not just a story, it happened to me and I know for a fact there
are
others out there with damage in this area.

The perfect fix of course is to mill solid aluminum block inserts for the
carrythrough to capture the outer gear bolts and the three AN3 bolts in
that area, this actually is what I have done and it works really well.
The
down side to that is that the side panels have to come of to do this, so
it
is not really a good retro fix option. Murphy, they say, have been
working
on another fix option, I thought they would have had it sorted by now.

The other thing to do is to retighten the gear bolts very frequently in
the
early stages of the taxiing and flying program. The rear outer gear bolt
inspection panel as per the Manual should not be riveted on but should be
made to be easily removed so that tightening the rear bolt is no big
drama.
Also I think the lower strut and gear fairings should be left off until
say
10hrs have been flown.

I have done these mods, also put .032 panels on the lower rolled corner
and
under the doors sills, beefed up the FUS 35 and put two rows of rivets
on
each flange on it.

I also moved to 3/8 outer bolts and to 7/16 inner gear bolts, this was
my
choice,I am not saying it is necessary

I have also interpiched the doorpost rivets ( doubled up ) and because of
the type of work I am doing with the plane I have fitted 850-6 tyres.

Since the repairs I have done about 25 hrs into some very rough places
and
things are holding up really well, I am anticipating no more problems.
What
a neat aircraft!!!

I hope this helps.

Cheers

Alister



----------
From: JimsRebel@aol.com
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Spring Gear fix ???
Date: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 12:55 PM

Hi Alister
Regarding the spring gear ... Murphy has been quiet about any changes
in
the
area of the sping gear. I talked to Grant about this and it didn't seem
to me
that they were planning a mod or retrofit kit to stengthen the spring
gear. I
would like to know what you did to the gear to strengthen it.
Thanks Jim
JimsRebel@aol.com


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Spring Gear fix ???

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:53 pm
by Mike Davis
Received: from dialup.voyager.co.nz (ts1p16.net.ashburton.voyager.co.nz
[203.21.25.181]) by host02.net.voyager.co.nz (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id
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From: "Alister Yeoman" <yeoman@voyager.co.nz>
To: "Murphy Rebel" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 10:11:12 +1300
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Jim,

I can do that, I'll get on to it over the next few days.

I do have some concerns that this is of course not the official Murphy fix,
I would suggest you wait a little to see what Murphy comes up with, it does
sound as though they are onto it. I also found the cost of the solid
aluminum block and milling quite excessive, they may have a cheaper option.

My gear legs were nice and straight, aluminum wedges were supplied in the
kit to alter toe in/out etc. although I found I did not require them. I
think you will find the the legs quite rigid, they dont absorb the loads as
much as I would like, those loads are then transferred onto the fuse. That
is why with all the off field work I do I have elected for the bigger
tyres. ( 850-6).

The camber of course changes dramatically as you load the aircraft, I think
yours would tend to even out ( I think!!), Lightly loaded there is a lot of
positive camber, at all up weight it is noticably negative. The book says
to set the wheels at slight toe out. Seems to work.

Yes, the brake lines can be quite messy can't they? I ended up using all
aviation spec materials with the braided flexible line down the rear of the
leg clipped on with the same clips as used on a C180. Very visible but at
least it looks, and is functional!

I'll fax that through in the next few days.

Cheers

Alister

----------
From: James A. Remington <jaremington@earthlink.net>
To: (Murphy Rebel) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???
Date: Thursday, January 21, 1999 6:32 AM

Alister: Thanks for the very complete answer. I wonder if you would be
willing to fax me a drawing of the milled solid aluminum block inserts
you
designed. I have not started on my fuselage yet so I can make any
changes with
ease. However I have already purchased the spring gear. I was very
disappointed with the quality of those parts. Don't know why they didn't
gun
drill the leg for an internal break line before bending. Hanging the
hydraulic
lines on the outside seems a bit behind the times. Since by two gear
legs I
got don't seem to match when clamped to a table top, I was wondering what
system is used to adjust the individual legs to get the aircraft to sit
level
and to get the camber on each tire to be correct?

Alister Yeoman wrote:
Hi Jim,

I am very disappointed that Murphy have not addressed this, they told
me
they would.

The issue I believe is that the spacer system that holds the outer
straddle
bolts on the spring gear is not up to it.

It is poorly designed, firstly, the spacer is the wrong diameter for
the
bolt, secondly, because the outer gear bolts are so close to the edge
of
the carrythrough the spacer has to be shaped to fit the top corner of
the
carrythrough, thirdly, the bottom of the spacer is sitting against the
bottom plates not on the carrythough.

The sequence of events appears to be, as the spring gear is settling
in,
the spacer, because it is the wrong diameter ( to big), can move a
little
sideways. Then because the spacer is shaped, a little slack develops (
it
only needs to be a few thou ).
Once there is a little room to move things start happening quite
quickly,
the front bolt is the one that causes the problem because of the
braking
loads, the top of the carrythrough crushes downwards and then starts to
punch the spacer into the bottom plates pushing them away from the
carrythrough and pulling the rivets out.

This is not just a story, it happened to me and I know for a fact there
are
others out there with damage in this area.

The perfect fix of course is to mill solid aluminum block inserts for
the
carrythrough to capture the outer gear bolts and the three AN3 bolts in
that area, this actually is what I have done and it works really well.
The
down side to that is that the side panels have to come of to do this,
so it
is not really a good retro fix option. Murphy, they say, have been
working
on another fix option, I thought they would have had it sorted by now.

The other thing to do is to retighten the gear bolts very frequently in
the
early stages of the taxiing and flying program. The rear outer gear
bolt
inspection panel as per the Manual should not be riveted on but should
be
made to be easily removed so that tightening the rear bolt is no big
drama.
Also I think the lower strut and gear fairings should be left off until
say
10hrs have been flown.

I have done these mods, also put .032 panels on the lower rolled corner
and
under the doors sills, beefed up the FUS 35 and put two rows of rivets
on
each flange on it.

I also moved to 3/8 outer bolts and to 7/16 inner gear bolts, this was
my
choice,I am not saying it is necessary

I have also interpiched the doorpost rivets ( doubled up ) and because
of
the type of work I am doing with the plane I have fitted 850-6 tyres.

Since the repairs I have done about 25 hrs into some very rough places
and
things are holding up really well, I am anticipating no more problems.
What
a neat aircraft!!!

I hope this helps.

Cheers

Alister



----------
From: JimsRebel@aol.com
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Spring Gear fix ???
Date: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 12:55 PM

Hi Alister
Regarding the spring gear ... Murphy has been quiet about any
changes in
the
area of the sping gear. I talked to Grant about this and it didn't
seem
to me
that they were planning a mod or retrofit kit to stengthen the spring
gear. I
would like to know what you did to the gear to strengthen it.
Thanks Jim
JimsRebel@aol.com
.





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Spring Gear fix ???

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:53 pm
by Mike Davis
Received: from RebelAir@aol.com
by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 3UNRa06036
for <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 20:50:22 +1900 (EST)
From: RebelAir@aol.com
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Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 20:50:22 EST
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
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Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???
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Hello Folks

I also talked to MAM last week about the spring gear fix. First of all,
they
categorically state that it is unnecessary for vast majority of people. It
is
only necessary if you are flying off of tundra etc. (their words).

However, the fix they are talking about means removing the lower corner
wraps
in order to allow access to the area in question. I could not consider this
when you think about all of the work it took to put in the existing overlap
plates in the top and bottom of the carrythroughs. I have about 80 3/16"
rivets per side. Holes are going to get damaged upon removal etc. etc.
They
need to think of something better than this before I consider slicing this
thing apart.

Brian #328R
.





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Spring Gear fix ???

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:18 pm
by Mike Davis
Received: from dialup.voyager.co.nz (ts1p12.net.ashburton.voyager.co.nz
[203.21.25.176]) by host02.net.voyager.co.nz (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id
SAA08251 for <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 18:14:04 +1300
(NZDT)
Message-Id: <199901210514.SAA08251@host02.net.voyager.co.nz>
From: "Alister Yeoman" <yeoman@voyager.co.nz>
To: "Murphy Rebel" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 18:08:18 +1300
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Brian,

I would be very disappointed if that was the case, When I was speaking to
Murphy last they seemed committed to making the retro fix on the gear able
to be done as the aircraft sits, without pulling the side panels off. I
guess we'll just have wait and see what they come up with.

I think also you have to read between the lines a little with these people,
they might say it wont affect the vast majority of people but of course
they dont want to upset everyone, so they will try to talk the problem
down. A prudent builder would take heed.

Alister

----------
From: RebelAir@aol.com
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???
Date: Thursday, January 21, 1999 2:50 PM

Hello Folks

I also talked to MAM last week about the spring gear fix. First of all,
they
categorically state that it is unnecessary for vast majority of people.
It is
only necessary if you are flying off of tundra etc. (their words).

However, the fix they are talking about means removing the lower corner
wraps
in order to allow access to the area in question. I could not consider
this
when you think about all of the work it took to put in the existing
overlap
plates in the top and bottom of the carrythroughs. I have about 80 3/16"
rivets per side. Holes are going to get damaged upon removal etc. etc.
They
need to think of something better than this before I consider slicing
this
thing apart.

Brian #328R

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Spring Gear fix ???

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:18 pm
by Mike Davis
Received: from dialup.voyager.co.nz (ts1p12.net.ashburton.voyager.co.nz
[203.21.25.176]) by host02.net.voyager.co.nz (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id
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(NZDT)
Message-Id: <199901210514.SAA08265@host02.net.voyager.co.nz>
From: "Alister Yeoman" <yeoman@voyager.co.nz>
To: "Murphy Rebel" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 18:13:46 +1300
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Jim,

Could the legs be pressed somehow to even them up.

It would be a shame not to use them, if the mods are done the spring gear
is really good. I have just been looking through some of the old
correspondance from this forum on the bungee gear and it certainly has its
share of problems and failures,

Stick to the spring gear!!

Alister

----------
From: James A. Remington <jaremington@earthlink.net>
To: (Murphy Rebel) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???
Date: Thursday, January 21, 1999 3:32 PM

Alister: I received no wedges with my spring gear and no instructions
for
proper rigging of the finished gear. Believe me the difference between
the left
and right leg is such that I will need quite a different combination of
wedges
on each leg to get the aircraft level and to get the camber and caster
the
same. No hurry in sending the drawing. I am a long way from that step.
I
will look at Murphy's fix if there ever is one but I will also consider
sticking with the original gear and using the spring gear for bookends.

Alister Yeoman wrote:
Jim,

I can do that, I'll get on to it over the next few days.

I do have some concerns that this is of course not the official Murphy
fix,
I would suggest you wait a little to see what Murphy comes up with, it
does
sound as though they are onto it. I also found the cost of the solid
aluminum block and milling quite excessive, they may have a cheaper
option.
My gear legs were nice and straight, aluminum wedges were supplied in
the
kit to alter toe in/out etc. although I found I did not require them. I
think you will find the the legs quite rigid, they dont absorb the
loads as
much as I would like, those loads are then transferred onto the fuse.
That
is why with all the off field work I do I have elected for the bigger
tyres. ( 850-6).

The camber of course changes dramatically as you load the aircraft, I
think
yours would tend to even out ( I think!!), Lightly loaded there is a
lot of
positive camber, at all up weight it is noticably negative. The book
says
to set the wheels at slight toe out. Seems to work.

Yes, the brake lines can be quite messy can't they? I ended up using
all
aviation spec materials with the braided flexible line down the rear of
the
leg clipped on with the same clips as used on a C180. Very visible but
at
least it looks, and is functional!

I'll fax that through in the next few days.

Cheers

Alister

----------
From: James A. Remington <jaremington@earthlink.net>
To: (Murphy Rebel) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???
Date: Thursday, January 21, 1999 6:32 AM

Alister: Thanks for the very complete answer. I wonder if you would
be
willing to fax me a drawing of the milled solid aluminum block
inserts
you
designed. I have not started on my fuselage yet so I can make any
changes with
ease. However I have already purchased the spring gear. I was very
disappointed with the quality of those parts. Don't know why they
didn't
gun
drill the leg for an internal break line before bending. Hanging the
hydraulic
lines on the outside seems a bit behind the times. Since by two gear
legs I
got don't seem to match when clamped to a table top, I was wondering
what
system is used to adjust the individual legs to get the aircraft to
sit
level
and to get the camber on each tire to be correct?

Alister Yeoman wrote:
told
me
straddle
for
the
edge
of
of
the
the
settling
in,
little
develops (
it
quickly,
braking
starts to
there
are
for
the
bolts in
well.
The
this,
so it
working
now.
frequently in
the
bolt
should
be
big
drama.
until
say
corner
and
rivets
on
was
my
because
of
tyres.
places
and
problems.
What
changes in
didn't
seem
spring

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Spring Gear fix ???

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:18 pm
by Mike Davis
Received: from earthlink.net (ip87a.richmond6.va.pub-ip.psi.net
[38.30.108.87])
by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA04554
for <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 10:04:42 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <36A76C5B.D6FC7CB5@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 13:05:15 -0500
From: "James A. Remington" <jaremington@earthlink.net>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: " (Murphy Rebel)" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???
References: <199901210514.SAA08265@host02.net.voyager.co.nz>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Alister: I showed the gear to an EAA friend who knows a good bit about such
things and he said that to make them match they would have to be softened,
bent
and then tempered again to the original condition. This work must be done
by a
shop that really know heat treating of aluminum. He is also the one that
said
the legs should have been gun drilled for the hydraulic lines before they
were
bent the first time.

Jim

Alister Yeoman wrote:
Jim,

Could the legs be pressed somehow to even them up.

It would be a shame not to use them, if the mods are done the spring gear
is really good. I have just been looking through some of the old
correspondance from this forum on the bungee gear and it certainly has its
share of problems and failures,

Stick to the spring gear!!

Alister

----------
From: James A. Remington <jaremington@earthlink.net>
To: (Murphy Rebel) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???
Date: Thursday, January 21, 1999 3:32 PM

Alister: I received no wedges with my spring gear and no instructions
for
proper rigging of the finished gear. Believe me the difference between
the left
and right leg is such that I will need quite a different combination of
wedges
on each leg to get the aircraft level and to get the camber and caster
the
same. No hurry in sending the drawing. I am a long way from that step.
I
will look at Murphy's fix if there ever is one but I will also consider
sticking with the original gear and using the spring gear for bookends.

Alister Yeoman wrote:
Jim,

I can do that, I'll get on to it over the next few days.

I do have some concerns that this is of course not the official Murphy
fix,
I would suggest you wait a little to see what Murphy comes up with, it
does
sound as though they are onto it. I also found the cost of the solid
aluminum block and milling quite excessive, they may have a cheaper
option.
My gear legs were nice and straight, aluminum wedges were supplied in
the
kit to alter toe in/out etc. although I found I did not require them.
I
think you will find the the legs quite rigid, they dont absorb the
loads as
much as I would like, those loads are then transferred onto the fuse.
That
is why with all the off field work I do I have elected for the bigger
tyres. ( 850-6).

The camber of course changes dramatically as you load the aircraft, I
think
yours would tend to even out ( I think!!), Lightly loaded there is a
lot of
positive camber, at all up weight it is noticably negative. The book
says
to set the wheels at slight toe out. Seems to work.

Yes, the brake lines can be quite messy can't they? I ended up using
all
aviation spec materials with the braided flexible line down the rear
of
the
leg clipped on with the same clips as used on a C180. Very visible but
at
least it looks, and is functional!

I'll fax that through in the next few days.

Cheers

Alister

----------
would
be
inserts
you changes with
didn't
gun
the
hydraulic
gear
legs I
what
sit
level
told
me straddle
for
the
edge
of
of
the
the
settling
in, little
develops (
it quickly, braking
starts to
there
are
for
the
bolts in
well.
The
this,
so it working
now.
frequently in
the
gear
bolt
should
be
big
drama.
until
say
corner
and
rivets
on
this
was
my
because
of
tyres.
places
and
problems.
What changes in
didn't
seem
spring

Spring Gear fix ???

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:18 pm
by Mike Davis
Received: from dialup.voyager.co.nz (ts1p09.net.ashburton.voyager.co.nz
[203.21.25.173]) by host02.net.voyager.co.nz (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id
KAA15271 for <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:13:46 +1300
(NZDT)
Message-Id: <199901212113.KAA15271@host02.net.voyager.co.nz>
From: "Alister Yeoman" <yeoman@voyager.co.nz>
To: "Murphy Rebel" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:14:05 +1300
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Priority: 3
X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Jim,

You've tried Murphy for a replacement on them? If they are not right they
should be replaced, mine were absolutely perfect!

Alister
----------
From: James A. Remington <jaremington@earthlink.net>
To: (Murphy Rebel) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???
Date: Friday, January 22, 1999 7:05 AM

Alister: I showed the gear to an EAA friend who knows a good bit about
such
things and he said that to make them match they would have to be
softened, bent
and then tempered again to the original condition. This work must be
done by a
shop that really know heat treating of aluminum. He is also the one that
said
the legs should have been gun drilled for the hydraulic lines before they
were
bent the first time.

Jim

Alister Yeoman wrote:
Jim,

Could the legs be pressed somehow to even them up.

It would be a shame not to use them, if the mods are done the spring
gear
is really good. I have just been looking through some of the old
correspondance from this forum on the bungee gear and it certainly has
its
share of problems and failures,

Stick to the spring gear!!

Alister

----------
From: James A. Remington <jaremington@earthlink.net>
To: (Murphy Rebel) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???
Date: Thursday, January 21, 1999 3:32 PM

Alister: I received no wedges with my spring gear and no
instructions
for
proper rigging of the finished gear. Believe me the difference
between
the left
and right leg is such that I will need quite a different combination
of
wedges
on each leg to get the aircraft level and to get the camber and
caster
the
same. No hurry in sending the drawing. I am a long way from that
step.
I
will look at Murphy's fix if there ever is one but I will also
consider
sticking with the original gear and using the spring gear for
bookends.
Alister Yeoman wrote:
Murphy
fix,
it
does
solid
option.
in
the
them. I
loads as
fuse.
That
bigger
I
think
a
lot of
book
says
using
all
rear of
the
but
at
would
be
inserts
any
very
they
didn't
the
gear
wondering
what
to
sit
they
told
outer
diameter
for
the
edge
corner
of
against
the
settling
move a
develops (
quite
the
starts to
the
fact
there
inserts
for
bolts in
really
well.
this,
been
by
now.
frequently in
gear
should
no
big
off
until
rolled
corner
of
rivets
this
was
because
tyres.
places
problems.
any
didn't
the
spring

Spring Gear fix ???

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:18 pm
by Mike Davis
Received: from earthlink.net (ip209a.richmond6.va.pub-ip.psi.net
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by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA18940
for <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 14:15:32 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <36A7A722.18C115FB@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 17:16:02 -0500
From: "James A. Remington" <jaremington@earthlink.net>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: " (Murphy Rebel)" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???
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Alister: The set I have now is a replacement for the first set. The first
set
was so bad that the left and right leg were off by 3 inches when clamped to
a
table and one had positive camber and the other had negative camber. No
amount
of shims could have corrected that. Goodness knows how the aircraft would
have
tracked on the ground and one wing tip would have been a least a foot lower
than the other. The second set was just about as bad so I did not try for a
third set. Again, no wedges or instructions were included with either set.

On a different tact, I doubt if the aircraft was ever designed to take the
concentrated torque load that this spring gear generates at the attach
point.
Your fix may have resolved that but Murphy's approach to all of these
structural failures is to 1) deny they exist 2) when that won't work, slap
on
a doubler of paper thin aluminum and hope it goes away.

This has been the case with cracks due to ever increasing engine weight,
seat
failures, tail cone buckling, etc. I realize it is an experimental but I
think
Murphy lets his ego and the bottom line get ahead of owning up to weak
points
and letting all kit owners know of potential problems. We kit owners are
also
at fault for taking an overgrown ultralight and trying to make it into an
C172. The original design wasn't bad. Everything was basically in harmony
including that 80 HP rotax. When we keep hanging heavier and heavier things
on
that airframe, I think we are asking for trouble. It ain't no Maule!

jar



Alister Yeoman wrote:
Jim,

You've tried Murphy for a replacement on them? If they are not right they
should be replaced, mine were absolutely perfect!

Alister
----------
From: James A. Remington <jaremington@earthlink.net>
To: (Murphy Rebel) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???
Date: Friday, January 22, 1999 7:05 AM

Alister: I showed the gear to an EAA friend who knows a good bit about
such
things and he said that to make them match they would have to be
softened, bent
and then tempered again to the original condition. This work must be
done by a
shop that really know heat treating of aluminum. He is also the one
that
said
the legs should have been gun drilled for the hydraulic lines before
they
were
bent the first time.

Jim

Alister Yeoman wrote:
Jim,

Could the legs be pressed somehow to even them up.

It would be a shame not to use them, if the mods are done the spring
gear
is really good. I have just been looking through some of the old
correspondance from this forum on the bungee gear and it certainly has
its
share of problems and failures,

Stick to the spring gear!!

Alister

----------
instructions
for
between
the left
of
wedges
caster
the
step.
I
consider
bookends.
Murphy
fix,
with,
it
does
solid
cheaper
option.
in
the
them. I
loads as
fuse.
That
bigger
aircraft,
I
think
a
lot of
book
says
using
all
rear of
the
but
at
would
be inserts
any
very
they
didn't
Hanging
the
gear
wondering
what
to
sit
they
told
outer
diameter
for
the
edge
corner
of
against
the settling
move a
develops (
quite
the
starts to
the
fact
there
inserts
for bolts in
really
well.
do
this,
been
by
now. frequently in
gear
but
should
no
big
off
until
rolled
corner
of
rivets
this
was because tyres.
rough
places problems.
any
didn't
the
spring
it.