The Murphy Builders Site

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:53 pm**

For years, I used the good old fashioned green zinc chromate. On a properly
prepared surface, this stuff is pretty good. Recently, I tried a can of
self-etching primer (brand is Tempo, I think...). This stuff is so far
superior, IMHO, I haven't used a can of green since. The self etching is
light gray and has no chromate warnings. It seems to hold as well, or
better, than the green primer that came on my fast build.

Bill Delcambre

----- Original Message -----
From: <Nielsenbe@aol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 12:10 PM
Subject: primer

Is there any primer that is in a disposable spray can that can be used?

Thanks, Brad

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:53 pm**

Bill,

Where did you purchase it from?

Rick Muller
SR70
-------Original Message-------
From: Bill Delcambre <bdelcambre@cox-internet.com>
Sent: 04/01/03 12:52 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: primer

For years, I used the good old fashioned green zinc chromate. On a

properly
prepared surface, this stuff is pretty good. Recently, I tried a can of
self-etching primer (brand is Tempo, I think...). This stuff is so far
superior, IMHO, I haven't used a can of green since. The self etching is
light gray and has no chromate warnings. It seems to hold as well, or
better, than the green primer that came on my fast build.

Bill Delcambre

----- Original Message -----
From: <Nielsenbe@aol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 12:10 PM
Subject: primer

Is there any primer that is in a disposable spray can that can be used?

Thanks,

Brad
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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:53 pm**

Is there any primer that is in a disposable spray can that can be used?

Thanks, Brad

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:53 pm**

I found "AeroPro 5915 Quick Etch", self etching primer, to work well also.
It is a light green (may come in gray too). Bought it at a local paint
supply store. Says it is compatible with all automotive finishes. About $6
US a can.

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Nielsenbe@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 11:11 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: primer

Is there any primer that is in a disposable spray can that can be used?

Thanks, Brad

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:53 pm**

Well, I'm fortunate enough to have a branch of Falcon Crest Aviation Supply
right across the street from my office. The part # on their invoice is
A880. In less than 10 minutes, I can run across and pick up a can. I guess
that doesn't help you much, huh? A quick look at Wag Aero shows that they
list the Tempo green zinc chromate. I think the self etching stuff is
pretty new, so I'd guess they, and all of the supply houses will be handling
it.

Bill

----- Original Message -----
From: <rickhm@mindspring.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 4:04 PM
Subject: Re: Re: primer

Bill,

Where did you purchase it from?

Rick Muller
SR70
-------Original Message-------
From: Bill Delcambre <bdelcambre@cox-internet.com>
Sent: 04/01/03 12:52 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: primer

For years, I used the good old fashioned green zinc chromate. On a
properly
prepared surface, this stuff is pretty good. Recently, I tried a can of
self-etching primer (brand is Tempo, I think...). This stuff is so far
superior, IMHO, I haven't used a can of green since. The self etching is
light gray and has no chromate warnings. It seems to hold as well, or
better, than the green primer that came on my fast build.

Bill Delcambre

----- Original Message -----
From: <Nielsenbe@aol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 12:10 PM
Subject: primer

Is there any primer that is in a disposable spray can that can be used?

Thanks,
Brad

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:53 pm**

In a message dated 4/1/03 12:12:12 PM Central Standard Time,
Nielsenbe@aol.com writes:

Is there any primer that is in a disposable spray can that can be used?

BRAD
There are self etching primers for aluminum. I've used them to spray the
inside of the fusalage and under side of the floor before closing up the
Rebel I'm working on now.
I've used regular chromate and epoxy chromate and I acualy prefer the epoxy
chromate to either. If you ever get a chance to compare the diferant products
you'll see the epoxy is much more durable.
Phil&Lisa Smith
#460R
N414D

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:55 pm**

Hi Brad !

I'm going to upset a whole bunch of people .....

My answer to your question is:

"NOT on ANY airplane I'll ever own !!"

I suffered for 23 years with an aircraft that somebody had
used a spray can primer on the insides of the wings !!! Every time
I flew it, a bit more flaked off & swirled around the cockpit !!!
I know paint has improved a lot, but <I> can't think of a single
reason why you'd EVER want to use a spray bomb primer ....

(Don't even ASK about what I think of self-etching primers !
How do they 'know' when to STOP etching ??!!) ;-^)

The Murphy aircraft were all designed to be assembled
using PolyFiber Epoxy Primer (EP-420 ??), brushed on between joints,
and assembled WET, with rivets dipped & inserted WET. There are
good reasons for this, and LOTS of history - why mess with it ??!!!
(It's used to BOND, & FILL, not as a primer, per se !!)

The 6061-T6 aluminum in the Rebels is MUCH more corrosion
resistant than the 2024 that Cessna uses, so there's no real need
to do anything but the joints - but if you REALLY want to, spray
with a THIN coating of Epoxy Primer, or use an after-building
spray-in, like Boeing D-29, or Northern Shield (about $35 for
enough to do the whole airplane). These go in as a mist & harden
after - good for life.

Maybe I'm just an old curmudgeon, but I've suffered
enough, thank you, and I hope I can save someone else from a similar
fate !! Inhaling all that flakey zinc chromate hasn't done
my lungs any good !! And the cracked & flaking paint provided
zippo protection for the metal - in fact, it provided lots of
little moisture traps !!

Anyway, that's what makes homebuilding so much fun -
you get to do it the way YOU think is best !!! ;-^)

.....bobp

---------------------------------orig.---------------------------------
At 01:10 PM 4/1/03 EST, you wrote:

Is there any primer that is in a disposable spray can that can be used?

Thanks, Brad

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:55 pm**

thanks for the info on the primer from everyone. I just wanted something that
was no cleanup so I could do a couple joints a night without mixing and
cleaning and waste. I guess your right, I have no experience so just follow
the book.

Thanks, Brad

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:55 pm**

Brad,

I am using EP-420/430. I mix small batches into baby food jars with metal
measuring spoons. Buy your own - don't use your brides' tools! I normally
mix a three table spoon batch for dipping rivets.

I have stored the mixed epoxy in the freezer for several days and it is just
fine for use after it has warmed up a bit.

Cheers, rj
===============================

-----Original Message-----
From: Nielsenbe@aol.com [mailto:Nielsenbe@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 12:09 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: primer

thanks for the info on the primer from everyone. I just wanted something
that
was no cleanup so I could do a couple joints a night without mixing and
cleaning and waste. I guess your right, I have no experience so just follow
the book.

Thanks, Brad

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:55 pm**

On 4 Apr 2003 at 18:41, Warren Montgomery wrote:

What if you don't have a baby? Any suggestions?? (Already have bride)

If you have access to them, syringes work really well. I used a pair of
10cc syringes, measuring enough for a mixable level in a film can.
Between work sessions, I'd store the sealed film can in the freezer.
One batch would be good for a week that way, and once it cured too
much, I'd just pull the blob out and the polyethylene can would be
ready for the next batch. (The can's lid also made a great cup for
dipping rivits.)

---
David Parrish

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:55 pm**

Hi Warren !

You could use those foil butter-tart tins - they're great
for dipping rivets with a small amount of primer. (And the tarts
aren't bad either ! ;-) ) (but not as good as a wife !) ;-^)
..... she made me add that ! :-)

Glad to hear you're OK - we were a bit worried for a while !
Seems like all the good pictures we get here are from Abu Dhabi TV !
Hope it all settles down RSN !!!

Take care !
.....bobp

--------------------------------orig.--------------------------------
At 06:41 PM 4/4/03 +0400, you wrote:

What if you don't have a baby? Any suggestions?? (Already have bride)

Warren
Moose 029
Dubai, UAE
Still in the Gulf where all's quiet.

RJ Thomas wrote:

Brad,

I am using EP-420/430. I mix small batches into baby food jars with metal
measuring spoons. Buy your own - don't use your brides' tools! I normally
mix a three table spoon batch for dipping rivets.

I have stored the mixed epoxy in the freezer for several days and it is just
fine for use after it has warmed up a bit.

Cheers, rj
===============================

-----Original Message-----
From: Nielsenbe@aol.com [mailto:Nielsenbe@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 12:09 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: primer

thanks for the info on the primer from everyone. I just wanted something
that
was no cleanup so I could do a couple joints a night without mixing and
cleaning and waste. I guess your right, I have no experience so just follow
the book.

Thanks, Brad

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:55 pm**

Hi Brad

I'll agree with Bob that the spray bomb doesn't sound like a good idea, most are
laquer based and none will have the chemical properties of an epoxy. Like a few
others have said what you can do is mix your choice of primer and close the
container between uses if you want to use it as a "glue" according to the MAM
recommendation.

We however are doing a bit different and painting the whole piece(s) with a
Dupont etching chromate primer from the auto market. We contacted their tech
rep and explained what we wanted to do and this was their recommendation.

On the etching issue, I think the broad answer to Bob's concern is that the
paint companies would have addressed any concerns about the etching continuing
with time. I expect the answer is that the reacting chemicals in the primer are
used up (and therefore the chemical reaction stops) before the primer dries,
that is if I remember my first year chemistry......... We made our decision
after talking to the tech support person at Cessna about what they do, the
answer was they paint everything and then assemble.

Hope this gives you enough info to help you make the best decision for your
particular needs.

Cheers,

Dave R.
elite583.cjb.net

Bob Patterson wrote:

Hi Brad !

I'm going to upset a whole bunch of people .....

My answer to your question is:

"NOT on ANY airplane I'll ever own !!"

I suffered for 23 years with an aircraft that somebody had
used a spray can primer on the insides of the wings !!! Every time
I flew it, a bit more flaked off & swirled around the cockpit !!!
I know paint has improved a lot, but <I> can't think of a single
reason why you'd EVER want to use a spray bomb primer ....

(Don't even ASK about what I think of self-etching primers !
How do they 'know' when to STOP etching ??!!) ;-^)

The Murphy aircraft were all designed to be assembled
using PolyFiber Epoxy Primer (EP-420 ??), brushed on between joints,
and assembled WET, with rivets dipped & inserted WET. There are
good reasons for this, and LOTS of history - why mess with it ??!!!
(It's used to BOND, & FILL, not as a primer, per se !!)

The 6061-T6 aluminum in the Rebels is MUCH more corrosion
resistant than the 2024 that Cessna uses, so there's no real need
to do anything but the joints - but if you REALLY want to, spray
with a THIN coating of Epoxy Primer, or use an after-building
spray-in, like Boeing D-29, or Northern Shield (about $35 for
enough to do the whole airplane). These go in as a mist & harden
after - good for life.

Maybe I'm just an old curmudgeon, but I've suffered
enough, thank you, and I hope I can save someone else from a similar
fate !! Inhaling all that flakey zinc chromate hasn't done
my lungs any good !! And the cracked & flaking paint provided
zippo protection for the metal - in fact, it provided lots of
little moisture traps !!

Anyway, that's what makes homebuilding so much fun -
you get to do it the way YOU think is best !!! ;-^)

.....bobp

---------------------------------orig.---------------------------------
At 01:10 PM 4/1/03 EST, you wrote:
Is there any primer that is in a disposable spray can that can be used?

Thanks, Brad

--
David A. Ricker P. Eng.
DARTEC Engineering Inc.
Fall River, Nova Scotia
Canada

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:55 pm**

What if you don't have a baby? Any suggestions?? (Already have bride)

Warren
Moose 029
Dubai, UAE
Still in the Gulf where all's quiet.

RJ Thomas wrote:

Brad,

I am using EP-420/430. I mix small batches into baby food jars with metal
measuring spoons. Buy your own - don't use your brides' tools! I normally
mix a three table spoon batch for dipping rivets.

I have stored the mixed epoxy in the freezer for several days and it is just
fine for use after it has warmed up a bit.

Cheers, rj
===============================

-----Original Message-----
From: Nielsenbe@aol.com [mailto:Nielsenbe@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 12:09 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: primer

thanks for the info on the primer from everyone. I just wanted something
that
was no cleanup so I could do a couple joints a night without mixing and
cleaning and waste. I guess your right, I have no experience so just follow
the book.

Thanks, Brad

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:55 pm**

I use 30cc syringes that can be picked up pretty cheap through mail order
medical supply places. I have gotten pretty good at judging how much to mix
up and the amount of waste has been minimal. I just mix up how much I think
I'll need, erring on the side of not enough, and then just mix a tiny batch
if I'm a little short. No need to store the mixed stuff in the fridge. I
used 1 inch foam brushes to apply on mating surfaces which was great because
as soon as the parts are clecoed together the foam brush works perfect for
coating each rivet. Just spin the rivet against the brush and set it in the
hole. The syringes last for a few days of use over and over again before
they become too gummed up and have to be replaced.

Mike Kimball
SR #044

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Bob
Patterson
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 12:05 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: primer

Hi Warren !

You could use those foil butter-tart tins - they're great
for dipping rivets with a small amount of primer. (And the tarts
aren't bad either ! ;-) ) (but not as good as a wife !) ;-^)
..... she made me add that ! :-)

Glad to hear you're OK - we were a bit worried for a while !
Seems like all the good pictures we get here are from Abu Dhabi TV !
Hope it all settles down RSN !!!

Take care !
.....bobp

--------------------------------orig.--------------------------------
At 06:41 PM 4/4/03 +0400, you wrote:

What if you don't have a baby? Any suggestions?? (Already have bride)

Warren
Moose 029
Dubai, UAE
Still in the Gulf where all's quiet.

RJ Thomas wrote:

Brad,

I am using EP-420/430. I mix small batches into baby food jars with metal
measuring spoons. Buy your own - don't use your brides' tools! I normally
mix a three table spoon batch for dipping rivets.

I have stored the mixed epoxy in the freezer for several days and it is

just

fine for use after it has warmed up a bit.

Cheers, rj
===============================

-----Original Message-----
From: Nielsenbe@aol.com [mailto:Nielsenbe@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 12:09 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: primer

thanks for the info on the primer from everyone. I just wanted something
that
was no cleanup so I could do a couple joints a night without mixing and
cleaning and waste. I guess your right, I have no experience so just

follow

the book.

Thanks, Brad

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:02 pm**

I'm just about ready to place an order with ACS and noticed the price
difference between the ACS fuel primer at 85.00US and the Essex primer
at 189.50US. I know that MAM includes the Essex primer in their FWF kit
but is this primer really worth that much more money? Anybody have any
experience with the ACS model? Please advise.
Thanks,
Clay

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