The Murphy Builders Site

Hi Drew

Yes you are right but I thought is was a good idea and it also gives me a
spot to attach the bat. solenoid.
Good, bad or otherwise, it's just something I did. Oh and you may have
forgotten to mention the weight. That extra pound or so here and there adds
up.

Where are you at with your project Drew?

Good Luck
Murray

Witch leads to a question. Is there an accepted test flight sequence

changing to floats. My plan is to get used to taxiing and flying off
pavement at my home airport then fly over to Orillia lake st.john I think
theres a ramp there that I can taxi down. That way I can check for leaks
and get used to how the plane handles in the water before I make my first
water landing. Any Suggestions?
Drew


Drew Dalgleish

To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
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-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 7:43 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: RE:float flying was sooooo quiet


Yes, don't forget that you have to submit a
W & B to Transport Canada and
quite possibly a climb test at 1730lbs to be
legal. Initial gear
configuration changes (other than skis)
invalidate the C of A unless this is
done (skis only require you to put a new W &
B in your logs, but you should
submit them to TC anyway to update your file
incase you ever lose your
logs!). Don't give your insurance company an
out by not submitting this
stuff to TC!!!! You may not even have to do
the climb test and should check
with Wayne Juniper in Hamilton
(1-905-679-1360) when you are getting ready
to switch over. He may be happy with just an
updated equipment list and W &
B for the file showing the float
installation, considering the precedented
history of the configuration (using my name
at the start of the conversation
apparently doesn't hurt either when you call
him ;o). There is nothing that
will be sent out from them (TC) to update
your records (ie no new C of A),
they just want the W & B for the file to be
legal. They do not update the
gross weight on the C of A to 1730lbs for
float operations, just as they
don't for the certified world as 5% is a
norm in upgross for floats.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <apat@istar.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 10:28 PM
Subject: RE:float flying was sooooo quiet

Hi Drew !

Presume you already have a float

rating, and have advised

your insurance company when you'll be

switching to floats....

and the new weight-&-balance, etc. to

submit, and other foolishness

to be legal ! (see Wayne's email a while

back on all this !!)

(It's kind of a catch-22 !!!)

You are about to discover a

well-kept secret -- flying the

Rebel on amphibs is Sssssoooooooooo EASY

!!! It's even easier

than a tricycle !! :-) :-)

Couple of cautions - before you

even think about flying,

be sure to taxi long & fast, dragging the

brakes ! They are

smooth & shiny, and don't work worth a

darn until you seat them

in by warming them with a bit of pressure

- this can take a mile

or 2 of dragging & pumping. Do some donuts

both ways in an open

area... The brakes are VITAL to steering

on amphibs, and they

just aren't good enough to keep you out of

trouble until they

get seated !! Once they're ready, you'll

be delighted to find

you can turn on a dime - even tighter than

you could on wheels !!

On takeoff, just lift the nosewheels a bit

& let it fly off.

Next thing is: DRAG CITY !!! The

first approach will

surprise you - it's like a Simonized

crowbar !! Keep the speed up !!

Best to arrive at the runway with an extra

10 mph or so, so you

have a moment to get the nose up so you

can settle on the mains.

It really decelerates quickly !! While I

dislike it as a habit,

you will likely find it a LOT easier to

carry about 1,500+ rpm

on final for the first few...

FWIW, I was taught to "ALWAYS fly

with the gear RETRACTED"

then you only have to decide - lower it

for land, or leave it

for water. And the downwind check, base

leg check, and final

approach checks ALL contain the phrase

"Gear DOWN" at least TWICE

each, and include <touching> AND <looking

at> the gear selector !!

This has saved my bacon a time or 2 !! :-)

Have fun !! You will LOVE it !!

....bobp
---------------------------------orig.-------
-----------------------

At 11:32 AM 3/31/03 -0500, you wrote:

At 09:08 PM 3/30/2003 -0800, you wrote:

Hi Murray
I put another 1.7hrs on my project

yesterday. 20knot winds made for a

very bumpy ride though. I found out when

I was leaving Goderich that my

next job is going to be service the

impulse coupling on my mag. It works

fine when it's warm but sticks a little

when it's cold. My floats are

closed up and joined together in my

garage theres lots of finishing
touches

to do before they can go on the plane but

if I can maintain my current

level of enthusiasm I should be float

flying around the first of june.

Witch leads to a question. Is there an

accepted test flight sequence
when

changing to floats. My plan is to get

used to taxiing and flying off

pavement at my home airport then fly over

to Orillia lake st.john I think

theres a ramp there that I can taxi down.

That way I can check for leaks

and get used to how the plane handles in

the water before I make my first

water landing. Any Suggestions?
Drew


Drew Dalgleish

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Yes Drew, Lake St. John has a ramp. You should call over before arrival etc
to make sure the path from the paved strip to the apron is firm enough, for
skimpy tires, before trying this out.

Tom Kaufman is the principal owner. Phone # 1-705-325-6153 email is
tom@orilliaaviation.com

The only thing I would caution is that their paved strip isn't the greatest
so be careful when you set her down and try to miss the larger pot holes!
(seriously not as bad as I make it sound, but you do need to use caution).

Wayne

At 09:08 PM 3/30/2003 -0800, you wrote:

Hi Murray
I put another 1.7hrs on my project yesterday. 20knot winds made for a
very bumpy ride though. I found out when I was leaving Goderich that my
next job is going to be service the impulse coupling on my mag. It works
fine when it's warm but sticks a little when it's cold. My floats are
closed up and joined together in my garage theres lots of finishing touches
to do before they can go on the plane but if I can maintain my current
level of enthusiasm I should be float flying around the first of june.
Witch leads to a question. Is there an accepted test flight sequence when
changing to floats. My plan is to get used to taxiing and flying off
pavement at my home airport then fly over to Orillia lake st.john I think
theres a ramp there that I can taxi down. That way I can check for leaks
and get used to how the plane handles in the water before I make my first
water landing. Any Suggestions?
Drew


Drew Dalgleish




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Hi Drew !

Presume you already have a float rating, and have advised
your insurance company when you'll be switching to floats....
and the new weight-&-balance, etc. to submit, and other foolishness
to be legal ! (see Wayne's email a while back on all this !!)
(It's kind of a catch-22 !!!)

You are about to discover a well-kept secret -- flying the
Rebel on amphibs is Sssssoooooooooo EASY !!! It's even easier
than a tricycle !! :-) :-)

Couple of cautions - before you even think about flying,
be sure to taxi long & fast, dragging the brakes ! They are
smooth & shiny, and don't work worth a darn until you seat them
in by warming them with a bit of pressure - this can take a mile
or 2 of dragging & pumping. Do some donuts both ways in an open
area... The brakes are VITAL to steering on amphibs, and they
just aren't good enough to keep you out of trouble until they
get seated !! Once they're ready, you'll be delighted to find
you can turn on a dime - even tighter than you could on wheels !!
On takeoff, just lift the nosewheels a bit & let it fly off.

Next thing is: DRAG CITY !!! The first approach will
surprise you - it's like a Simonized crowbar !! Keep the speed up !!
Best to arrive at the runway with an extra 10 mph or so, so you
have a moment to get the nose up so you can settle on the mains.
It really decelerates quickly !! While I dislike it as a habit,
you will likely find it a LOT easier to carry about 1,500+ rpm
on final for the first few...

FWIW, I was taught to "ALWAYS fly with the gear RETRACTED"
then you only have to decide - lower it for land, or leave it
for water. And the downwind check, base leg check, and final
approach checks ALL contain the phrase "Gear DOWN" at least TWICE
each, and include <touching> AND <looking at> the gear selector !!
This has saved my bacon a time or 2 !! :-)

Have fun !! You will LOVE it !!

....bobp

---------------------------------orig.------------------------------
At 11:32 AM 3/31/03 -0500, you wrote:

At 09:08 PM 3/30/2003 -0800, you wrote:

Hi Murray
I put another 1.7hrs on my project yesterday. 20knot winds made for a
very bumpy ride though. I found out when I was leaving Goderich that my
next job is going to be service the impulse coupling on my mag. It works
fine when it's warm but sticks a little when it's cold. My floats are
closed up and joined together in my garage theres lots of finishing

to do before they can go on the plane but if I can maintain my current
level of enthusiasm I should be float flying around the first of june.
Witch leads to a question. Is there an accepted test flight sequence

changing to floats. My plan is to get used to taxiing and flying off
pavement at my home airport then fly over to Orillia lake st.john I think
theres a ramp there that I can taxi down. That way I can check for leaks
and get used to how the plane handles in the water before I make my first
water landing. Any Suggestions?
Drew


Drew Dalgleish

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

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http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

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Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com

Yeah, I do remember in my case, I ended up going
through all the paperwork again, including a new C of
A, because I increased my gross weight. I was never
convinced that was all necessary, but was not in a
position to argue. It cost me quite a few bucks extra
as I recall, too.

My advice for anyone registering your Rebel for the
first time, use whatever gross weight you will
eventually have on floats, and you can avoid that
hassle.

I am some advice for insurance as well if you want to
save some money. Set it up so that it expires either
Oct 1, or Sept 1 and that will give you some options
that you otherwise wouldn't have for full hull
insurance just for the high use (high risk?) summer
months.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 7:43 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: RE:float flying was sooooo quiet


Yes, don't forget that you have to submit a
W & B to Transport Canada and
quite possibly a climb test at 1730lbs to be
legal. Initial gear
configuration changes (other than skis)
invalidate the C of A unless this is
done (skis only require you to put a new W &
B in your logs, but you should
submit them to TC anyway to update your file
incase you ever lose your
logs!). Don't give your insurance company an
out by not submitting this
stuff to TC!!!! You may not even have to do
the climb test and should check
with Wayne Juniper in Hamilton
(1-905-679-1360) when you are getting ready
to switch over. He may be happy with just an
updated equipment list and W &
B for the file showing the float
installation, considering the precedented
history of the configuration (using my name
at the start of the conversation
apparently doesn't hurt either when you call
him ;o). There is nothing that
will be sent out from them (TC) to update
your records (ie no new C of A),
they just want the W & B for the file to be
legal. They do not update the
gross weight on the C of A to 1730lbs for
float operations, just as they
don't for the certified world as 5% is a
norm in upgross for floats.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <apat@istar.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 10:28 PM
Subject: RE:float flying was sooooo quiet

Hi Drew !

Presume you already have a float

rating, and have advised

your insurance company when you'll be

switching to floats....

and the new weight-&-balance, etc. to

submit, and other foolishness

to be legal ! (see Wayne's email a while

back on all this !!)

(It's kind of a catch-22 !!!)

You are about to discover a

well-kept secret -- flying the

Rebel on amphibs is Sssssoooooooooo EASY

!!! It's even easier

than a tricycle !! :-) :-)

Couple of cautions - before you

even think about flying,

be sure to taxi long & fast, dragging the

brakes ! They are

smooth & shiny, and don't work worth a

darn until you seat them

in by warming them with a bit of pressure

- this can take a mile

or 2 of dragging & pumping. Do some donuts

both ways in an open

area... The brakes are VITAL to steering

on amphibs, and they

just aren't good enough to keep you out of

trouble until they

get seated !! Once they're ready, you'll

be delighted to find

you can turn on a dime - even tighter than

you could on wheels !!

On takeoff, just lift the nosewheels a bit

& let it fly off.

Next thing is: DRAG CITY !!! The

first approach will

surprise you - it's like a Simonized

crowbar !! Keep the speed up !!

Best to arrive at the runway with an extra

10 mph or so, so you

have a moment to get the nose up so you

can settle on the mains.

It really decelerates quickly !! While I

dislike it as a habit,

you will likely find it a LOT easier to

carry about 1,500+ rpm

on final for the first few...

FWIW, I was taught to "ALWAYS fly

with the gear RETRACTED"

then you only have to decide - lower it

for land, or leave it

for water. And the downwind check, base

leg check, and final

approach checks ALL contain the phrase

"Gear DOWN" at least TWICE

each, and include <touching> AND <looking

at> the gear selector !!

This has saved my bacon a time or 2 !! :-)

Have fun !! You will LOVE it !!

....bobp
---------------------------------orig.-------
-----------------------

At 11:32 AM 3/31/03 -0500, you wrote:

yesterday. 20knot winds made for a

I was leaving Goderich that my

impulse coupling on my mag. It works

when it's cold. My floats are

garage theres lots of finishing
touches

if I can maintain my current

flying around the first of june.

accepted test flight sequence
when

used to taxiing and flying off

to Orillia lake st.john I think

That way I can check for leaks

the water before I make my first

*-------------------------------------------

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Archives located at

http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm

To contact the list admin, e-mail

mike.davis@dcsol.com

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--------------------*
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-------------------*

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To contact the list admin, e-mail

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-------------------*




*------------------------------------------------------
-------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
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To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*------------------------------------------------------
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To unsubscribe from this list go to:
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Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com

Yeah, I do remember in my case, I ended up going
through all the paperwork again, including a new C of
A, because I increased my gross weight. I was never
convinced that was all necessary, but was not in a
position to argue. It cost me quite a few bucks extra
as I recall, too.

My advice for anyone registering your Rebel for the
first time, use whatever gross weight you will
eventually have on floats, and you can avoid that
hassle.

I am some advice for insurance as well if you want to
save some money. Set it up so that it expires either
Oct 1, or Sept 1 and that will give you some options
that you otherwise wouldn't have for full hull
insurance just for the high use (high risk?) summer
months.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 7:43 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: RE:float flying was sooooo quiet


Yes, don't forget that you have to submit a
W & B to Transport Canada and
quite possibly a climb test at 1730lbs to be
legal. Initial gear
configuration changes (other than skis)
invalidate the C of A unless this is
done (skis only require you to put a new W &
B in your logs, but you should
submit them to TC anyway to update your file
incase you ever lose your
logs!). Don't give your insurance company an
out by not submitting this
stuff to TC!!!! You may not even have to do
the climb test and should check
with Wayne Juniper in Hamilton
(1-905-679-1360) when you are getting ready
to switch over. He may be happy with just an
updated equipment list and W &
B for the file showing the float
installation, considering the precedented
history of the configuration (using my name
at the start of the conversation
apparently doesn't hurt either when you call
him ;o). There is nothing that
will be sent out from them (TC) to update
your records (ie no new C of A),
they just want the W & B for the file to be
legal. They do not update the
gross weight on the C of A to 1730lbs for
float operations, just as they
don't for the certified world as 5% is a
norm in upgross for floats.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <apat@istar.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 10:28 PM
Subject: RE:float flying was sooooo quiet

Hi Drew !

Presume you already have a float

rating, and have advised

your insurance company when you'll be

switching to floats....

and the new weight-&-balance, etc. to

submit, and other foolishness

to be legal ! (see Wayne's email a while

back on all this !!)

(It's kind of a catch-22 !!!)

You are about to discover a

well-kept secret -- flying the

Rebel on amphibs is Sssssoooooooooo EASY

!!! It's even easier

than a tricycle !! :-) :-)

Couple of cautions - before you

even think about flying,

be sure to taxi long & fast, dragging the

brakes ! They are

smooth & shiny, and don't work worth a

darn until you seat them

in by warming them with a bit of pressure

- this can take a mile

or 2 of dragging & pumping. Do some donuts

both ways in an open

area... The brakes are VITAL to steering

on amphibs, and they

just aren't good enough to keep you out of

trouble until they

get seated !! Once they're ready, you'll

be delighted to find

you can turn on a dime - even tighter than

you could on wheels !!

On takeoff, just lift the nosewheels a bit

& let it fly off.

Next thing is: DRAG CITY !!! The

first approach will

surprise you - it's like a Simonized

crowbar !! Keep the speed up !!

Best to arrive at the runway with an extra

10 mph or so, so you

have a moment to get the nose up so you

can settle on the mains.

It really decelerates quickly !! While I

dislike it as a habit,

you will likely find it a LOT easier to

carry about 1,500+ rpm

on final for the first few...

FWIW, I was taught to "ALWAYS fly

with the gear RETRACTED"

then you only have to decide - lower it

for land, or leave it

for water. And the downwind check, base

leg check, and final

approach checks ALL contain the phrase

"Gear DOWN" at least TWICE

each, and include <touching> AND <looking

at> the gear selector !!

This has saved my bacon a time or 2 !! :-)

Have fun !! You will LOVE it !!

....bobp
---------------------------------orig.-------
-----------------------

At 11:32 AM 3/31/03 -0500, you wrote:

yesterday. 20knot winds made for a

I was leaving Goderich that my

impulse coupling on my mag. It works

when it's cold. My floats are

garage theres lots of finishing
touches

if I can maintain my current

flying around the first of june.

accepted test flight sequence
when

used to taxiing and flying off

to Orillia lake st.john I think

That way I can check for leaks

the water before I make my first

*-------------------------------------------

------------------------------*

http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx

Archives located at

http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm

To contact the list admin, e-mail

mike.davis@dcsol.com

*-----------------------------------------------------

--------------------*
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-------------------*

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*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

Thanks for all the response guys. I have my float rating but not much
experience. I'll make sure I seat the brakes in. I plan to do a bunch of

step taxiing before taking off to learn the correct attitude for landing.
I've over 200hrs. in my plane on wheels and I'm pretty comfortable with it
so I'm not sure that having someone else along for the ride would add
anything. I think I'll go back to sarnia where I got my rating and refresh
myself on their 172 for a couple hours.
I haven't looked for insurance yet. Avemco was going to cover me but I
guess I'm out of luck there. when I got a price from avemco they would
charge more just for the months that the plane was on floats. Do any other
companies have a similar plan?

Drew

At 08:04 PM 3/31/2003 -0800, you wrote:

Yeah, I do remember in my case, I ended up going
through all the paperwork again, including a new C of
A, because I increased my gross weight. I was never
convinced that was all necessary, but was not in a
position to argue. It cost me quite a few bucks extra
as I recall, too.

My advice for anyone registering your Rebel for the
first time, use whatever gross weight you will
eventually have on floats, and you can avoid that
hassle.

I am some advice for insurance as well if you want to
save some money. Set it up so that it expires either
Oct 1, or Sept 1 and that will give you some options
that you otherwise wouldn't have for full hull
insurance just for the high use (high risk?) summer
months.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 7:43 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: RE:float flying was sooooo quiet


Yes, don't forget that you have to submit a
W & B to Transport Canada and
quite possibly a climb test at 1730lbs to be
legal. Initial gear
configuration changes (other than skis)
invalidate the C of A unless this is
done (skis only require you to put a new W &
B in your logs, but you should
submit them to TC anyway to update your file
incase you ever lose your
logs!). Don't give your insurance company an
out by not submitting this
stuff to TC!!!! You may not even have to do
the climb test and should check
with Wayne Juniper in Hamilton
(1-905-679-1360) when you are getting ready
to switch over. He may be happy with just an
updated equipment list and W &
B for the file showing the float
installation, considering the precedented
history of the configuration (using my name
at the start of the conversation
apparently doesn't hurt either when you call
him ;o). There is nothing that
will be sent out from them (TC) to update
your records (ie no new C of A),
they just want the W & B for the file to be
legal. They do not update the
gross weight on the C of A to 1730lbs for
float operations, just as they
don't for the certified world as 5% is a
norm in upgross for floats.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <apat@istar.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 10:28 PM
Subject: RE:float flying was sooooo quiet

rating, and have advised switching to floats.... submit, and other foolishness back on all this !!) well-kept secret -- flying the !!! It's even easier even think about flying, brakes ! They are darn until you seat them - this can take a mile both ways in an open on amphibs, and they trouble until they be delighted to find you could on wheels !! & let it fly off. first approach will crowbar !! Keep the speed up !! 10 mph or so, so you can settle on the mains. dislike it as a habit, carry about 1,500+ rpm with the gear RETRACTED" for land, or leave it leg check, and final "Gear DOWN" at least TWICE at> the gear selector !! ....bobp
---------------------------------orig.-------
----------------------- yesterday. 20knot winds made for a I was leaving Goderich that my impulse coupling on my mag. It works when it's cold. My floats are garage theres lots of finishing
touches if I can maintain my current flying around the first of june. accepted test flight sequence
when used to taxiing and flying off to Orillia lake st.john I think That way I can check for leaks the water before I make my first ------------------------------*

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Drew,

I've gotta admit to being a bit jealous! Low and slow float flying is
absolutely the greatest. Lots of step taxiing, huh? I'm in the camp that
believes that the only time I want to spend at speed, on ground or water is
taking off, or landing. I never gave much heed to the popular idea of 'high
speed taxi, or lots of step taxi'. This is exactly where accidents happen,
IMHO. I do, however, realize that I'm in the minority, with regard to this
opinion.

When I got an amphib (Kitfox IV), I got insurance with Hayes, Utley and
Hedgespeth. They were the SPA insurer of choice at the time. Phone
1-800-737-7873. Although SPA has chosen another provider, these fellows
always treated me well and I continue to use them for my current plane. I
do understand that premiums for amphib coverage have gone stratospheric!

Bill Delcambre

Thanks for all the response guys. I have my float rating but not much
experience. I'll make sure I seat the brakes in. I plan to do a bunch of

on

step taxiing before taking off to learn the correct attitude for landing.
I've over 200hrs. in my plane on wheels and I'm pretty comfortable with it
so I'm not sure that having someone else along for the ride would add
anything. I think I'll go back to sarnia where I got my rating and refresh
myself on their 172 for a couple hours.
I haven't looked for insurance yet. Avemco was going to cover me but I
guess I'm out of luck there. when I got a price from avemco they would
charge more just for the months that the plane was on floats. Do any other
companies have a similar plan?

Drew

At 08:04 PM 3/31/2003 -0800, you wrote:

Yeah, I do remember in my case, I ended up going
through all the paperwork again, including a new C of
A, because I increased my gross weight. I was never
convinced that was all necessary, but was not in a
position to argue. It cost me quite a few bucks extra
as I recall, too.

My advice for anyone registering your Rebel for the
first time, use whatever gross weight you will
eventually have on floats, and you can avoid that
hassle.

I am some advice for insurance as well if you want to
save some money. Set it up so that it expires either
Oct 1, or Sept 1 and that will give you some options
that you otherwise wouldn't have for full hull
insurance just for the high use (high risk?) summer
months.

Walter
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