Engine choice
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:52 pm
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From: "Charles Skorupa" <Chas@wa.freei.net>
To: "Murphy Rebel" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Engine choice
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:51:26 -0800
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I wonder what the numbers would be for the factory 0-360 Elite with =
amphib floats (flown by Robin at Murphy) that outperformed a Supercub on =
straight floats in a competiion at Oskosh last year? The numbers you =
show for an 0-320 Rebel in your chart are for amphib floats, With =
straight floats if I change the cell entry in your spreadsheet from 230# =
to 166 #, the number comes up as 21.1!! If I add 20 lbs to the engine =
weight for an 0-360 and another 20 lb for a heavier Elite (sans =
nosewheel) and change the HP to 180, I the spreadsheet comes up with =
20.4 on straight floats and 21.2 on amphib floats. No wonder Robin beat =
the Supercub (21.6). =20
As long as we are dreaming, the 200 HP 0-360 calculation for a Rebel =
Elite rates 19.5 on straight floats. Even at a max recommended =
floatplane gross weight of 1943# the number would be 22.4 with one heck =
of a payload. =20
Thanks for posting the spreadsheet. Hope I didn't misinterpret it. =
Makes for great hanger flying fantacies. And, as always, your mileage =
may vary.=20
- Chuck Skorupa -
-----Original Message-----
From: Cami Kucera <cpkucera@idirect.com>
To: Rebel Builders <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 7:34 PM
Subject: Engine choice
=20
=20
Hello fellow Rebel builders/flyers. I'm a slow (but determined) =
builder in Streetsville Ontario. I am fighting with the idea of building =
this lightweight craft and than hanging a 300+pound thirsty monster on =
the firewall to take my floats of the water some day.=20
I have played with the wing and powerloading figures and came up =
with the attached chart (use Excel 5 or higher).=20
A good performing small seaplane should have a combined wing and =
power loading equal to 25 or less (30 or less for small land plane). A =
Cessna 172 seaplane with 180 hp at 2220 lbs has a total loading of 25. =
150 hp SuperCub with floats: 21.6!!! Wow! (I trained on a 160 hp Cessna =
172 seaplane and it performed OK with 2 people, total loading at 2220 =
lbs: 26.6).=20
I know drag is a factor here as well. Not sure how clean the Rebel =
is compared to the Cessna (all those rivet bumps on the wing must =
interfere a bit).=20
Anyway, you can plug in your own numbers for pilot, passenger etc. =
and see how it comes out.=20
All I need now is a lottery ticket to get me the 914 or the 912S. =
(Anyone with Hirth F30 experience? )
Happy building. Paul Kucera, 453R=20
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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>I wonder what the =
numbers would be=20
for the factory 0-360 Elite with amphib floats (flown by Robin at =
Murphy) that=20
outperformed a Supercub on straight floats in a competiion at Oskosh =
last=20
year? The numbers you show for an 0-320 Rebel in your chart are =
for amphib=20
floats, With straight floats if I change the cell entry in your=20
spreadsheet from 230# to 166 #, the number comes up as 21.1!! If I =
add 20=20
lbs to the engine weight for an 0-360 and another 20 lb for a heavier =
Elite=20
(sans nosewheel) and change the HP to 180, I the spreadsheet =
comes=20
up with 20.4 on straight floats and 21.2 on amphib floats. No wonder =
Robin beat=20
the Supercub (21.6). </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>As long as we are =
dreaming, the 200=20
HP 0-360 calculation for a Rebel Elite rates 19.5 on straight =
floats. Even=20
at a max recommended floatplane gross weight of 1943# the number would =
be 22.4=20
with one heck of a payload. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks for posting the=20
spreadsheet. Hope I didn't misinterpret it. Makes for great =
hanger=20
flying fantacies. And, as always, your mileage may=20
vary. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2> - =
Chuck Skorupa=20
-</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>-----Original =
Message-----</B><BR><B>From:=20
</B>Cami Kucera <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:cpkucera@idirect.com">cpkucera@idirect.com</A>><BR><B>T=
o:=20
</B>Rebel Builders <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com">murphy-rebel@dcsol.com</A>><BR>=
<B>Date:=20
</B>Wednesday, January 13, 1999 7:34 PM<BR><B>Subject: </B>Engine=20
choice<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hello fellow Rebel =
builders/flyers. I'm a=20
slow (but determined) builder in Streetsville Ontario. I am fighting =
with=20
the idea of building this lightweight craft and than hanging a =
300+pound=20
thirsty monster on the firewall to take my floats of the water some=20
day. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2>I have=20
played with the wing and powerloading figures and came up with the =
attached=20
chart (use Excel 5 or higher). </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>A good performing small seaplane =
should have=20
a combined wing and power loading equal to 25 or less (30 or less =
for small=20
land plane). A Cessna 172 seaplane with 180 hp at 2220 lbs has a =
total=20
loading of 25. 150 hp SuperCub with floats: 21.6!!! Wow! (I trained =
on a 160=20
hp Cessna 172 seaplane and it performed OK with 2 people, total =
loading at=20
2220 lbs: 26.6). </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I know drag is a factor here as =
well. Not=20
sure how clean the Rebel is compared to the Cessna (all those rivet =
bumps on=20
the wing must interfere a bit). </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Anyway, you can plug in your own =
numbers for=20
pilot, passenger etc. and see how it comes out. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>All I need now is a lottery =
ticket to get me=20
the 914 or the 912S. (Anyone with Hirth F30 experience? =
)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Happy building. Paul Kucera, =
453R=20
</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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for <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:51:07 -0800 (PST)
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Message-ID: <002c01be3f8a$657a4060$7b91a2d1@ibm>
From: "Charles Skorupa" <Chas@wa.freei.net>
To: "Murphy Rebel" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Engine choice
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:51:26 -0800
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I wonder what the numbers would be for the factory 0-360 Elite with =
amphib floats (flown by Robin at Murphy) that outperformed a Supercub on =
straight floats in a competiion at Oskosh last year? The numbers you =
show for an 0-320 Rebel in your chart are for amphib floats, With =
straight floats if I change the cell entry in your spreadsheet from 230# =
to 166 #, the number comes up as 21.1!! If I add 20 lbs to the engine =
weight for an 0-360 and another 20 lb for a heavier Elite (sans =
nosewheel) and change the HP to 180, I the spreadsheet comes up with =
20.4 on straight floats and 21.2 on amphib floats. No wonder Robin beat =
the Supercub (21.6). =20
As long as we are dreaming, the 200 HP 0-360 calculation for a Rebel =
Elite rates 19.5 on straight floats. Even at a max recommended =
floatplane gross weight of 1943# the number would be 22.4 with one heck =
of a payload. =20
Thanks for posting the spreadsheet. Hope I didn't misinterpret it. =
Makes for great hanger flying fantacies. And, as always, your mileage =
may vary.=20
- Chuck Skorupa -
-----Original Message-----
From: Cami Kucera <cpkucera@idirect.com>
To: Rebel Builders <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 7:34 PM
Subject: Engine choice
=20
=20
Hello fellow Rebel builders/flyers. I'm a slow (but determined) =
builder in Streetsville Ontario. I am fighting with the idea of building =
this lightweight craft and than hanging a 300+pound thirsty monster on =
the firewall to take my floats of the water some day.=20
I have played with the wing and powerloading figures and came up =
with the attached chart (use Excel 5 or higher).=20
A good performing small seaplane should have a combined wing and =
power loading equal to 25 or less (30 or less for small land plane). A =
Cessna 172 seaplane with 180 hp at 2220 lbs has a total loading of 25. =
150 hp SuperCub with floats: 21.6!!! Wow! (I trained on a 160 hp Cessna =
172 seaplane and it performed OK with 2 people, total loading at 2220 =
lbs: 26.6).=20
I know drag is a factor here as well. Not sure how clean the Rebel =
is compared to the Cessna (all those rivet bumps on the wing must =
interfere a bit).=20
Anyway, you can plug in your own numbers for pilot, passenger etc. =
and see how it comes out.=20
All I need now is a lottery ticket to get me the 914 or the 912S. =
(Anyone with Hirth F30 experience? )
Happy building. Paul Kucera, 453R=20
------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BE3F47.4073A060
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>I wonder what the =
numbers would be=20
for the factory 0-360 Elite with amphib floats (flown by Robin at =
Murphy) that=20
outperformed a Supercub on straight floats in a competiion at Oskosh =
last=20
year? The numbers you show for an 0-320 Rebel in your chart are =
for amphib=20
floats, With straight floats if I change the cell entry in your=20
spreadsheet from 230# to 166 #, the number comes up as 21.1!! If I =
add 20=20
lbs to the engine weight for an 0-360 and another 20 lb for a heavier =
Elite=20
(sans nosewheel) and change the HP to 180, I the spreadsheet =
comes=20
up with 20.4 on straight floats and 21.2 on amphib floats. No wonder =
Robin beat=20
the Supercub (21.6). </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>As long as we are =
dreaming, the 200=20
HP 0-360 calculation for a Rebel Elite rates 19.5 on straight =
floats. Even=20
at a max recommended floatplane gross weight of 1943# the number would =
be 22.4=20
with one heck of a payload. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks for posting the=20
spreadsheet. Hope I didn't misinterpret it. Makes for great =
hanger=20
flying fantacies. And, as always, your mileage may=20
vary. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2> - =
Chuck Skorupa=20
-</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>-----Original =
Message-----</B><BR><B>From:=20
</B>Cami Kucera <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:cpkucera@idirect.com">cpkucera@idirect.com</A>><BR><B>T=
o:=20
</B>Rebel Builders <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com">murphy-rebel@dcsol.com</A>><BR>=
<B>Date:=20
</B>Wednesday, January 13, 1999 7:34 PM<BR><B>Subject: </B>Engine=20
choice<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hello fellow Rebel =
builders/flyers. I'm a=20
slow (but determined) builder in Streetsville Ontario. I am fighting =
with=20
the idea of building this lightweight craft and than hanging a =
300+pound=20
thirsty monster on the firewall to take my floats of the water some=20
day. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2>I have=20
played with the wing and powerloading figures and came up with the =
attached=20
chart (use Excel 5 or higher). </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>A good performing small seaplane =
should have=20
a combined wing and power loading equal to 25 or less (30 or less =
for small=20
land plane). A Cessna 172 seaplane with 180 hp at 2220 lbs has a =
total=20
loading of 25. 150 hp SuperCub with floats: 21.6!!! Wow! (I trained =
on a 160=20
hp Cessna 172 seaplane and it performed OK with 2 people, total =
loading at=20
2220 lbs: 26.6). </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I know drag is a factor here as =
well. Not=20
sure how clean the Rebel is compared to the Cessna (all those rivet =
bumps on=20
the wing must interfere a bit). </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Anyway, you can plug in your own =
numbers for=20
pilot, passenger etc. and see how it comes out. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>All I need now is a lottery =
ticket to get me=20
the 914 or the 912S. (Anyone with Hirth F30 experience? =
)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Happy building. Paul Kucera, =
453R=20
</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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