The Murphy Builders Site

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:49 pm**

Hey Wayne,

Bruce's Rebel sure does sound like a good deal doesn't it?

Where can you find out about these "rules" regarding importing US
home-builts into Canada? Any chance it is on a web-site somewhere?

Can you tell me what the "restrictions" are, or might be? Just
curious. Specifically, you wrote:

" Even if it was flying, without 100 hours
of flight time logged and all the restrictions removed from the flight
permit,"

Take care. Really foggy here all night and this morning.

Brian Lawson,
Windsor, Ontario.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
On Sat, 1 Mar 2003 08:43:29 -0500, you wrote:

Heck of a deal Bruce!! Less than the price of the parts and free labour

to

build it!!

If you can put a couple bags of cement on the front and tow it like a

glider

to get 100 hours on it and somehow get the FAA to give you a final

phase

flight authority I would buy it at that price in a heart beat. Sounds

like

all you need is a motor and a paint job (and the other 250 hrs of

playing)

and she'd be ready to go.

Unfortunately with everything closed up I can not import it to Canada,

as it

can't be inspected for "preclose". Even if it was flying, without 100

hours

of flight time logged and all the restrictions removed from the flight
permit, I can't bring it into Canada either. At least we can now import

USA

homebuilts, but they have to have 100 hours of airtime and all the
restrictions removed. A wrinkle to that though is I have cleared the

way,

with the two guys at Transport Canada that are running this import

exemption

to our Regulations, and the aircraft CAN be missing the motor or have

been

damaged and still be imported, but only if it had over 100 hrs on it and

all

restrictions had already been removed at the time of the ##% up!!

Good luck,
Wayne

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:49 pm**

Keep the fog down there Brian!! I'm heading out, in an hour or so, for a
hunt camp 20 miles North of Parry Sound for a $100 hamburger. Wonderful
piece of paradise owned by John Stanton that ran Stanton Airways, from a
base on Sparrow Lake just north of Orillia. The only way in is by airplane
or snowmobile, and it really makes for a wonderful "what ski planes are all
about" setting!!

As for the restrictions for import...... Canadian Regulations have always
been, and are still written, that USA homebuilts CAN NOT be imported to
Canada, since they have no inspections during construction. Last April an
Exemption was written by Transport Canada to this section of Chapter 549 of
the CARS to allow the importation of homebuilts provided that they have in
excess of 100 hours of flight time and have all the flight permit
restrictions removed (i.e.: are in their final permit phase). They figured
if they had made it 100 hours without an inflight failure then they must be
structurally sound (I'M STILL NOT CONVINCED!).

The way the exemption is written and the original intent was for FLYING
aircraft with over 100 hrs and all restrictions removed. I thought I would
go one further and tried Transport on for "what if" the aircraft had made it
past 100 hours/final flight permit phase and was now sitting without an
engine?? OR.... crashed/ ground looped etc after 100 hours were in the logs,
andhad it's final flight authority but needed substantial repairs. Damn near
fell out of my chair when they took the bait, saying "they had no problem
with that" and I had 35+ witnesses so they can't back track on that one!!!!!

Can read my article in the upcoming Recreational Flyer - RAA magazine. Also
sure if you hit the Civil Aviation website at
http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/ you can find the exemption in there
somewhere as well.

The other option that has always been open is to buy a partially built kit,
or plans built aircraft, somewhere in the construction phase from the USA.
HOWEVER, everything must still be open for a preclose inspection, as it must
go through the >>ENTIRE<< MD-RA inspection program. If anything is closed
you will have to drill out the rivets and open for inspection. FACTORY
closed items from reputable/recognized kit suppliers will now be accepted
provided you can still prove that there is 51% left to build. This does not
allow for Factory ASSISTED closures. Example attending a USA factory and YOU
closing your Glasair wings under their supervision. This will not be allowed
unless you have taken an MD-RA inspector with you to witness and inspect to
give the "okay to close" prior to finishing up the wings. Like the inspector
knows more about their process than the factory, but them's the
rules!!!!!!!!!

We also threw a twist at Transport Canada on the fact that they would now
except "factory" closed wings. (We had a chapter member get a really rough
ride on a Cessna look alike, 5 or 6 years agao, that they built new wings
from using raw stock for skins and factory ribs. They were lucky to even get
a flight permit in the end as they kept getting told they just rebuilt a
certified aircraft and it didn't qualify). We posed the question as to
whether they would accept a FINISHED set of Cessna 206 wings on a homebuilt
since of course these are FACTORY built. They said yes they will, BUT you
still have to prove you are building 51 % of the aircraft and will be put to
the task of proving 51 % by going through the 51% determination process.

Enough for now,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lawson" <lawsonb@mnsi.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 9:11 AM
Subject: Restrictions?? was: Rebel project for sale

Hey Wayne,

Bruce's Rebel sure does sound like a good deal doesn't it?

Where can you find out about these "rules" regarding importing US
home-builts into Canada? Any chance it is on a web-site somewhere?

Can you tell me what the "restrictions" are, or might be? Just
curious. Specifically, you wrote:
" Even if it was flying, without 100 hours
of flight time logged and all the restrictions removed from the flight
permit,"
Take care. Really foggy here all night and this morning.

Brian Lawson,
Windsor, Ontario.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
On Sat, 1 Mar 2003 08:43:29 -0500, you wrote:

Heck of a deal Bruce!! Less than the price of the parts and free labour
to
build it!!

If you can put a couple bags of cement on the front and tow it like a
glider
to get 100 hours on it and somehow get the FAA to give you a final
phase
flight authority I would buy it at that price in a heart beat. Sounds
like
all you need is a motor and a paint job (and the other 250 hrs of
playing)
and she'd be ready to go.

Unfortunately with everything closed up I can not import it to Canada,
as it
can't be inspected for "preclose". Even if it was flying, without 100
hours
of flight time logged and all the restrictions removed from the flight
permit, I can't bring it into Canada either. At least we can now import
USA
homebuilts, but they have to have 100 hours of airtime and all the
restrictions removed. A wrinkle to that though is I have cleared the
way,
with the two guys at Transport Canada that are running this import
exemption
to our Regulations, and the aircraft CAN be missing the motor or have
been
damaged and still be imported, but only if it had over 100 hrs on it and
all
restrictions had already been removed at the time of the ##% up!!

Good luck,
Wayne

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:49 pm**

No I dident do that program.

Bruce

Wayne, Bruce, Brian.

Many US built kit planes "are" inspected by EAA and FAA appointed

Technical

counselors, 4 times through out construction. These reports are mailed

to the

EAA and FAA for record keeping. Maybe Canada authorities would accept

these

inspections if the builder performed them. Did you participate in this

program, Bruce?

Bruce 357R

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:49 pm**

Wayne, Bruce, Brian.

Many US built kit planes "are" inspected by EAA and FAA appointed Technical
counselors, 4 times through out construction. These reports are mailed to the
EAA and FAA for record keeping. Maybe Canada authorities would accept these
inspections if the builder performed them. Did you participate in this
program, Bruce?

Bruce 357R

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:49 pm**

The FAA still does not have an "official" inspection program for "in
process" inspections. This is why the EAA headquarters sent a couple of
representatives up to our Canadian advisors workshop here in Ontario last
fall, to see just how our program works, so they can set something similar
up in the USA. Ours, first operated by RAAC and now the last couple years
independently by MD-RA, has been in process for over 10 years so don't
expect yours to happen overnight.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <Legeorgen@aol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: Restrictions?? was: Rebel project for sale

Wayne, Bruce, Brian.

Many US built kit planes "are" inspected by EAA and FAA appointed

Technical

counselors, 4 times through out construction. These reports are mailed to

the

EAA and FAA for record keeping. Maybe Canada authorities would accept

these

inspections if the builder performed them. Did you participate in this
program, Bruce?

Bruce 357R

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