The Murphy Builders Site

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:46 pm**

Great to hear from you Nigel.

A friend and I are part way through a Rebel, and are
considering our engine possibilities. I'd love to
have a diesel, and haven't heard of the WAM160. Can
you point me to where we can get some information
about it?

Enjoy your kit - James - Windsor Ontario Canada
REB493

--- "N.Smith" <admin@airnig.co.uk> wrote:

This is my first posting to this group, so just
thought I'd introduce
myself, and outline my plans for an Elite project.
I live just south of Derby in the middle of England,
and have been after a
design I could get accepted for building here for
the last couple of years.
Kit planes are regulated a bit different in the UK,
and we need approval
from the PFA (Popular Flying Association) before we
commence any project. I
have just received the go ahead for an ELITE, based
on the assumption that
the first airframe being built on the south coast of
England does not suffer
from any unpleasant flying characteristics when it
is flight tested later
this year.
I've been reading the group postings for the last
month, and it seems there
are a few Elite builders / flyers using the group
already. Thanks for all
your comments - all makes me want to start as soon
as possible. Hopefully be
able to order the first couple of stages in the next
week.
I plan to add Murphy 1800 amphibs as soon as I can,
so will include attach
points when I build the fuselage, and power will be
from a WAM160 160HP
diesel, (fuel for these is about 30% of the cost of
avgas in Europe).
I've managed to talk the wife into a holiday in
Vancouver in August, so a
factory visit is a cert, and we'll try to get to
look at as many Elites in
the area as we can find.
Maybe get to meet some of you then :-)
Nigel Smith (Derby England)
admin@airnig.co.uk
M0BUH

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:46 pm**

Try here http://www.wilksch.com/

James Vandolder wrote:

Great to hear from you Nigel.

A friend and I are part way through a Rebel, and are
considering our engine possibilities. I'd love to
have a diesel, and haven't heard of the WAM160. Can
you point me to where we can get some information
about it?

Enjoy your kit - James - Windsor Ontario Canada
REB493

--
Wray Thompson ...Rebel 306 ...home page http://wrayt.tripod.com/
My ICQ number is 29764664

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:46 pm**

Nig, engine mounting is identical for the Elite and the Rebel!! ;o)

I had a good look through the website and see that they have just made it
through the 110HP rating for JAR on the 120 model and are still working for
confirmation that it will actually hold up to 120HP runs.

Considering that they first introduced the 120 in 1999, if they are still
playing with this how many years away is the 160HP engine in reality for a
safe purchase. I would also be concerned with their website showing that
they are looking for a Project Engineer, Designer and an Engine Builder for
the prototype work (that will also have the responsibility of overseeing the
workshop). Sounds like they have some BIG growing pains to overcome before
the 160 model is going to get much further.

Also based on their 3 cylinder 120 models weight of 220lbs + accessories,
the 4 cylinder 160 model is going to weigh in at very close to 300lbs (or
more) FWF, before you add the propellor, and that's a LOT of weight out on
the nose of an Elite.

Don't want to rain on what you appear to have well thought out, just
cautioning to have a REALLY good clear look at what you are heading for to
be certain this is the way to go. $15,000 GBpounds is a fair hunk of dough
to be a "guinea pig" for their 160HP version. That's $35,800 Canadian
dollars. That will buy you about 1.75 freshly overhauled, dyno run, PROVEN
160Hp Lycoming O-320's!

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "N.Smith" <admin@airnig.co.uk>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 4:23 PM
Subject: RE: WAM160 Diesel Information

Hi James
The WAM 160 and WAM 120 are 2 diesel engines from Wilksch Airmotive in the
UK (www.wilksch.com) and whilst the 3 cylinder 120 is flying at the

moment,

the 4 cylinder 160 is scheduled for development later this year. I reckon
the extra HP is going to be useful for pulling me off water when I get the
amphibs installed. The initial UK airframe Elite is going to be powered by
the 120, and we plan to use a common engine mount for both engines (the
stress analysis for this mount is already underway). The PFA will only
approve JetA1 fuel for these (I think largely due to fuel quality

guaranties

from Jet A1 suppliers). I know of several Rebel owners in the UK who are
looking at re engineing their a/c for the 120 engine, and the Elite engine
mount may also do for the Rebel. If you're interested I will pass on your
email to the engine mount designer.
You would also need to consider larger filler caps for the fuel tanks, and
tank sealants and hose compatibility with Jet A1.
Nig

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
James Vandolder
Sent: 23 February 2003 18:53
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: WAM160 Diesel Information

Great to hear from you Nigel.

A friend and I are part way through a Rebel, and are
considering our engine possibilities. I'd love to
have a diesel, and haven't heard of the WAM160. Can
you point me to where we can get some information
about it?

Enjoy your kit - James - Windsor Ontario Canada
REB493

--- "N.Smith" <admin@airnig.co.uk> wrote:
This is my first posting to this group, so just
thought I'd introduce
myself, and outline my plans for an Elite project.
I live just south of Derby in the middle of England,
and have been after a
design I could get accepted for building here for
the last couple of years.
Kit planes are regulated a bit different in the UK,
and we need approval
from the PFA (Popular Flying Association) before we
commence any project. I
have just received the go ahead for an ELITE, based
on the assumption that
the first airframe being built on the south coast of
England does not suffer
from any unpleasant flying characteristics when it
is flight tested later
this year.
I've been reading the group postings for the last
month, and it seems there
are a few Elite builders / flyers using the group
already. Thanks for all
your comments - all makes me want to start as soon
as possible. Hopefully be
able to order the first couple of stages in the next
week.
I plan to add Murphy 1800 amphibs as soon as I can,
so will include attach
points when I build the fuselage, and power will be
from a WAM160 160HP
diesel, (fuel for these is about 30% of the cost of
avgas in Europe).
I've managed to talk the wife into a holiday in
Vancouver in August, so a
factory visit is a cert, and we'll try to get to
look at as many Elites in
the area as we can find.
Maybe get to meet some of you then :-)
Nigel Smith (Derby England)
admin@airnig.co.uk
M0BUH

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:46 pm**

I share all these concerns except for weight. I would predict the W-160
plus enough fuel to go the same distance to come in about the same
weight as an 0-320 plus fuel or my Subaru plus fuel. Note the weight of
fuel will vary for each engine to go the same distance :)
Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

Nig, engine mounting is identical for the Elite and the Rebel!! ;o)

I had a good look through the website and see that they have just made it
through the 110HP rating for JAR on the 120 model and are still working for
confirmation that it will actually hold up to 120HP runs.

Considering that they first introduced the 120 in 1999, if they are still
playing with this how many years away is the 160HP engine in reality for a
safe purchase. I would also be concerned with their website showing that
they are looking for a Project Engineer, Designer and an Engine Builder for
the prototype work (that will also have the responsibility of overseeing the
workshop). Sounds like they have some BIG growing pains to overcome before
the 160 model is going to get much further.

Also based on their 3 cylinder 120 models weight of 220lbs + accessories,
the 4 cylinder 160 model is going to weigh in at very close to 300lbs (or
more) FWF, before you add the propellor, and that's a LOT of weight out on
the nose of an Elite.

Don't want to rain on what you appear to have well thought out, just
cautioning to have a REALLY good clear look at what you are heading for to
be certain this is the way to go. $15,000 GBpounds is a fair hunk of dough
to be a "guinea pig" for their 160HP version. That's $35,800 Canadian
dollars. That will buy you about 1.75 freshly overhauled, dyno run, PROVEN
160Hp Lycoming O-320's!

Cheers,
Wayne

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:49 pm**

I think the concern is that the plane will come out too nose heavy. With an
inline 4 the arm is going to be way out front. Also I think Deisel weighs a
bit more than gas per gallon.
Drew

At 06:49 PM 2/23/2003 -0500, you wrote:

I share all these concerns except for weight. I would predict the W-160
plus enough fuel to go the same distance to come in about the same
weight as an 0-320 plus fuel or my Subaru plus fuel. Note the weight of
fuel will vary for each engine to go the same distance :)
Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:
Nig, engine mounting is identical for the Elite and the Rebel!! ;o)

I had a good look through the website and see that they have just made it
through the 110HP rating for JAR on the 120 model and are still working for
confirmation that it will actually hold up to 120HP runs.

Considering that they first introduced the 120 in 1999, if they are still
playing with this how many years away is the 160HP engine in reality for a
safe purchase. I would also be concerned with their website showing that
they are looking for a Project Engineer, Designer and an Engine Builder for
the prototype work (that will also have the responsibility of overseeing

the

workshop). Sounds like they have some BIG growing pains to overcome before
the 160 model is going to get much further.

Also based on their 3 cylinder 120 models weight of 220lbs + accessories,
the 4 cylinder 160 model is going to weigh in at very close to 300lbs (or
more) FWF, before you add the propellor, and that's a LOT of weight out on
the nose of an Elite.

Don't want to rain on what you appear to have well thought out, just
cautioning to have a REALLY good clear look at what you are heading for to
be certain this is the way to go. $15,000 GBpounds is a fair hunk of dough
to be a "guinea pig" for their 160HP version. That's $35,800 Canadian
dollars. That will buy you about 1.75 freshly overhauled, dyno run, PROVEN
160Hp Lycoming O-320's!

Cheers,
Wayne

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:49 pm**

Yes Drew, that's were I was going with that. Not only is the engine going to
be heavy, but it is inline putting the weight even further out on the nose.
I just don't want to step on someone's "dream" toooooo much and was just
offering a heads up for Nig.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: WAM160 Diesel Information

I think the concern is that the plane will come out too nose heavy. With

an

inline 4 the arm is going to be way out front. Also I think Deisel weighs

a

bit more than gas per gallon.
Drew

At 06:49 PM 2/23/2003 -0500, you wrote:
I share all these concerns except for weight. I would predict the W-160
plus enough fuel to go the same distance to come in about the same
weight as an 0-320 plus fuel or my Subaru plus fuel. Note the weight of
fuel will vary for each engine to go the same distance :)
Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:
Nig, engine mounting is identical for the Elite and the Rebel!! ;o)

I had a good look through the website and see that they have just made

it

through the 110HP rating for JAR on the 120 model and are still working

for

confirmation that it will actually hold up to 120HP runs.

Considering that they first introduced the 120 in 1999, if they are

still

playing with this how many years away is the 160HP engine in reality

for a

safe purchase. I would also be concerned with their website showing

that

they are looking for a Project Engineer, Designer and an Engine Builder

for

the prototype work (that will also have the responsibility of

overseeing

the
workshop). Sounds like they have some BIG growing pains to overcome

before

the 160 model is going to get much further.

Also based on their 3 cylinder 120 models weight of 220lbs +

accessories,

the 4 cylinder 160 model is going to weigh in at very close to 300lbs

(or

more) FWF, before you add the propellor, and that's a LOT of weight out

on

the nose of an Elite.

Don't want to rain on what you appear to have well thought out, just
cautioning to have a REALLY good clear look at what you are heading for

to

be certain this is the way to go. $15,000 GBpounds is a fair hunk of

dough

to be a "guinea pig" for their 160HP version. That's $35,800 Canadian
dollars. That will buy you about 1.75 freshly overhauled, dyno run,

PROVEN

160Hp Lycoming O-320's!

Cheers,
Wayne

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:49 pm**

Hi James
The WAM 160 and WAM 120 are 2 diesel engines from Wilksch Airmotive in the
UK (www.wilksch.com) and whilst the 3 cylinder 120 is flying at the moment,
the 4 cylinder 160 is scheduled for development later this year. I reckon
the extra HP is going to be useful for pulling me off water when I get the
amphibs installed. The initial UK airframe Elite is going to be powered by
the 120, and we plan to use a common engine mount for both engines (the
stress analysis for this mount is already underway). The PFA will only
approve JetA1 fuel for these (I think largely due to fuel quality guaranties
from Jet A1 suppliers). I know of several Rebel owners in the UK who are
looking at re engineing their a/c for the 120 engine, and the Elite engine
mount may also do for the Rebel. If you're interested I will pass on your
email to the engine mount designer.
You would also need to consider larger filler caps for the fuel tanks, and
tank sealants and hose compatibility with Jet A1.
Nig

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
James Vandolder
Sent: 23 February 2003 18:53
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: WAM160 Diesel Information

Great to hear from you Nigel.

A friend and I are part way through a Rebel, and are
considering our engine possibilities. I'd love to
have a diesel, and haven't heard of the WAM160. Can
you point me to where we can get some information
about it?

Enjoy your kit - James - Windsor Ontario Canada
REB493

--- "N.Smith" <admin@airnig.co.uk> wrote:

This is my first posting to this group, so just
thought I'd introduce
myself, and outline my plans for an Elite project.
I live just south of Derby in the middle of England,
and have been after a
design I could get accepted for building here for
the last couple of years.
Kit planes are regulated a bit different in the UK,
and we need approval
from the PFA (Popular Flying Association) before we
commence any project. I
have just received the go ahead for an ELITE, based
on the assumption that
the first airframe being built on the south coast of
England does not suffer
from any unpleasant flying characteristics when it
is flight tested later
this year.
I've been reading the group postings for the last
month, and it seems there
are a few Elite builders / flyers using the group
already. Thanks for all
your comments - all makes me want to start as soon
as possible. Hopefully be
able to order the first couple of stages in the next
week.
I plan to add Murphy 1800 amphibs as soon as I can,
so will include attach
points when I build the fuselage, and power will be
from a WAM160 160HP
diesel, (fuel for these is about 30% of the cost of
avgas in Europe).
I've managed to talk the wife into a holiday in
Vancouver in August, so a
factory visit is a cert, and we'll try to get to
look at as many Elites in
the area as we can find.
Maybe get to meet some of you then :-)
Nigel Smith (Derby England)
admin@airnig.co.uk
M0BUH

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:49 pm**

Yup yup yup but a pound is pound and some folks forget that a pound of
diesel fuel will take you farther than a pound of gasoline and that a
pound of either fuel weighs amazingly close to the same as a pound of
feathers... ;)

The C of G may not be all that bad. A fast turning geared engine will
have smaller cylinder bores and water cooled cylinders are kept close
together. Such an engine will not be anywhere near as long as an inline
direct drive air cooled engine.

In addition the c of g of the water cooled engine itself (standing
alone) can sometimes be more rearward for a similar exterior dimension
engine. That is because some psru's weigh less per linear inch than the
engine block and because the flywheel may be more rearward.

OTOH, that in line 6 cylinder air cooled LOM on the Zenith 801 did
indeed have a prodigious snout!

Ken

Drew Dalgleish wrote:

I think the concern is that the plane will come out too nose heavy. With an
inline 4 the arm is going to be way out front. Also I think Deisel weighs a
bit more than gas per gallon.
Drew

At 06:49 PM 2/23/2003 -0500, you wrote:

I share all these concerns except for weight. I would predict the W-160
plus enough fuel to go the same distance to come in about the same
weight as an 0-320 plus fuel or my Subaru plus fuel. Note the weight of
fuel will vary for each engine to go the same distance :)

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:49 pm**

Hey guys,

My Pocket Reference gives the Sp.G and weight for gasoline as 0.74
Sp.G weighing 45.9 pounds per cubic foot, and the SG and weight for
diesel fuel as 0.84 Sp.G. weighing 52.1 pounds per cubic foot. You
work out whose "gallon" you will be burning, or Litre in our case.

Take care.

Brian Lawson,
Windsor, Ontario.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
On Mon, 24 Feb 2003 20:43:26 -0000, you wrote:

Hi Wayne (and all others)
Thanks for all your concerns about this engine choice. It was chosen
following a review of all available diesel engines in Europe, and it's
projected figures come out very well against all of them - even on

price.

The real saving of course is on our daily running costs.
JetA1 has a SG of 0.8, not sure about avgas, so can't really compare
weight/volume, but consumption is lower, so a fixed volume will travel
further. The expected weight including starter, alternator, oil and

cooling

systems dry is 120 Kgs. Expected fuel burn is 30 litre/hour at 2500
rpm.(120 bhp) and 42 litres/hour at 2750 rpm (160bhp).
The WAM120 has been delayed in production while several initial problems
that showed up on testing are designed out, although the engines should

be

released to customers within the next few months. As of late last year,

the

WAM160 was due to be developed after launch of the 120 to customers,

with a

proposed running and test flight by the end of this year. The 160 is
basically another cylinder added to the 120. I still have a long way to

go

before I reach my Firewall, and at that point in time I will have much

more

accurate figures from them on weight / balance. (Wayne - as a newbie to

the

group I still haven't tried to upload to the archive, so if it's OK with
you, I'll email you direct 2 pictures for uploading if you think them
relevant).
Thanks for all your comments - and for Rick and Wendy....PFJ - Splitters

!

Nig
admin@airnig.co.uk
M0BUH

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: 24 February 2003 01:57
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: WAM160 Diesel Information

Yes Drew, that's were I was going with that. Not only is the engine

going to

be heavy, but it is inline putting the weight even further out on the

nose.

I just don't want to step on someone's "dream" toooooo much and was just
offering a heads up for Nig.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: WAM160 Diesel Information

I think the concern is that the plane will come out too nose heavy.

With

an
inline 4 the arm is going to be way out front. Also I think Deisel

weighs

a
bit more than gas per gallon.
Drew

At 06:49 PM 2/23/2003 -0500, you wrote:
I share all these concerns except for weight. I would predict the

W-160

plus enough fuel to go the same distance to come in about the same
weight as an 0-320 plus fuel or my Subaru plus fuel. Note the weight

of

fuel will vary for each engine to go the same distance :)
Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

made

it

working

for
still

reality

for a
that

Builder

for
overseeing
the
before
accessories,

300lbs

(or

out

on

just

for

to

of

dough

Canadian

PROVEN

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:49 pm**

Received the pictures of the motor mounts and 160HP mock up on a mount and
will post to both the Elite and Rebel - Engine sections tonight!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "N.Smith" <admin@airnig.co.uk>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 3:43 PM
Subject: RE: WAM160 Diesel Information

Hi Wayne (and all others)
Thanks for all your concerns about this engine choice. It was chosen
following a review of all available diesel engines in Europe, and it's
projected figures come out very well against all of them - even on price.
The real saving of course is on our daily running costs.
JetA1 has a SG of 0.8, not sure about avgas, so can't really compare
weight/volume, but consumption is lower, so a fixed volume will travel
further. The expected weight including starter, alternator, oil and

cooling

systems dry is 120 Kgs. Expected fuel burn is 30 litre/hour at 2500
rpm.(120 bhp) and 42 litres/hour at 2750 rpm (160bhp).
The WAM120 has been delayed in production while several initial problems
that showed up on testing are designed out, although the engines should be
released to customers within the next few months. As of late last year,

the

WAM160 was due to be developed after launch of the 120 to customers, with

a

proposed running and test flight by the end of this year. The 160 is
basically another cylinder added to the 120. I still have a long way to go
before I reach my Firewall, and at that point in time I will have much

more

accurate figures from them on weight / balance. (Wayne - as a newbie to

the

group I still haven't tried to upload to the archive, so if it's OK with
you, I'll email you direct 2 pictures for uploading if you think them
relevant).
Thanks for all your comments - and for Rick and Wendy....PFJ - Splitters !
Nig
admin@airnig.co.uk
M0BUH

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: 24 February 2003 01:57
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: WAM160 Diesel Information

Yes Drew, that's were I was going with that. Not only is the engine going

to

be heavy, but it is inline putting the weight even further out on the

nose.

I just don't want to step on someone's "dream" toooooo much and was just
offering a heads up for Nig.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: WAM160 Diesel Information

I think the concern is that the plane will come out too nose heavy. With
an
inline 4 the arm is going to be way out front. Also I think Deisel

weighs

a
bit more than gas per gallon.
Drew

At 06:49 PM 2/23/2003 -0500, you wrote:
I share all these concerns except for weight. I would predict the W-160
plus enough fuel to go the same distance to come in about the same
weight as an 0-320 plus fuel or my Subaru plus fuel. Note the weight of
fuel will vary for each engine to go the same distance :)
Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

made

it

working

for
still
for a
that

Builder

for
overseeing
the
before
accessories,
(or

out

on

for

to
dough
PROVEN

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:49 pm**

Yah but most of us flight plan in litres or gallons not pounds. Good luck
with the WAM engine Nigel I hope it works out for you. The fuel savings
will soon cover the origional expense but don't commit to an engine that's
just a promise when it's time to make some final decisions. It seems to
take forever for these engines to come to market. I thought I'd be flying
behind a Zoche deisel 6or7 years ago and it's still not available. The
deltahawk has been in development almost as long.
Drew

At 08:28 AM 2/24/2003 -0500, you wrote:

Yup yup yup but a pound is pound and some folks forget that a pound of
diesel fuel will take you farther than a pound of gasoline and that a
pound of either fuel weighs amazingly close to the same as a pound of
feathers... ;)

The C of G may not be all that bad. A fast turning geared engine will
have smaller cylinder bores and water cooled cylinders are kept close
together. Such an engine will not be anywhere near as long as an inline
direct drive air cooled engine.

In addition the c of g of the water cooled engine itself (standing
alone) can sometimes be more rearward for a similar exterior dimension
engine. That is because some psru's weigh less per linear inch than the
engine block and because the flywheel may be more rearward.

OTOH, that in line 6 cylinder air cooled LOM on the Zenith 801 did
indeed have a prodigious snout!

Ken

Drew Dalgleish wrote:
I think the concern is that the plane will come out too nose heavy. With an
inline 4 the arm is going to be way out front. Also I think Deisel weighs a
bit more than gas per gallon.
Drew

At 06:49 PM 2/23/2003 -0500, you wrote:

I share all these concerns except for weight. I would predict the W-160
plus enough fuel to go the same distance to come in about the same
weight as an 0-320 plus fuel or my Subaru plus fuel. Note the weight of
fuel will vary for each engine to go the same distance :)

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:49 pm**

Hi Wayne (and all others)
Thanks for all your concerns about this engine choice. It was chosen
following a review of all available diesel engines in Europe, and it's
projected figures come out very well against all of them - even on price.
The real saving of course is on our daily running costs.
JetA1 has a SG of 0.8, not sure about avgas, so can't really compare
weight/volume, but consumption is lower, so a fixed volume will travel
further. The expected weight including starter, alternator, oil and cooling
systems dry is 120 Kgs. Expected fuel burn is 30 litre/hour at 2500
rpm.(120 bhp) and 42 litres/hour at 2750 rpm (160bhp).
The WAM120 has been delayed in production while several initial problems
that showed up on testing are designed out, although the engines should be
released to customers within the next few months. As of late last year, the
WAM160 was due to be developed after launch of the 120 to customers, with a
proposed running and test flight by the end of this year. The 160 is
basically another cylinder added to the 120. I still have a long way to go
before I reach my Firewall, and at that point in time I will have much more
accurate figures from them on weight / balance. (Wayne - as a newbie to the
group I still haven't tried to upload to the archive, so if it's OK with
you, I'll email you direct 2 pictures for uploading if you think them
relevant).
Thanks for all your comments - and for Rick and Wendy....PFJ - Splitters !
Nig
admin@airnig.co.uk
M0BUH

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: 24 February 2003 01:57
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: WAM160 Diesel Information

Yes Drew, that's were I was going with that. Not only is the engine going to
be heavy, but it is inline putting the weight even further out on the nose.
I just don't want to step on someone's "dream" toooooo much and was just
offering a heads up for Nig.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: WAM160 Diesel Information

I think the concern is that the plane will come out too nose heavy. With

an

inline 4 the arm is going to be way out front. Also I think Deisel weighs

a

bit more than gas per gallon.
Drew

At 06:49 PM 2/23/2003 -0500, you wrote:
I share all these concerns except for weight. I would predict the W-160
plus enough fuel to go the same distance to come in about the same
weight as an 0-320 plus fuel or my Subaru plus fuel. Note the weight of
fuel will vary for each engine to go the same distance :)
Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:
Nig, engine mounting is identical for the Elite and the Rebel!! ;o)

I had a good look through the website and see that they have just made

it

through the 110HP rating for JAR on the 120 model and are still working

for

confirmation that it will actually hold up to 120HP runs.

Considering that they first introduced the 120 in 1999, if they are

still

playing with this how many years away is the 160HP engine in reality

for a

safe purchase. I would also be concerned with their website showing

that

they are looking for a Project Engineer, Designer and an Engine Builder

for

the prototype work (that will also have the responsibility of

overseeing

the
workshop). Sounds like they have some BIG growing pains to overcome

before

the 160 model is going to get much further.

Also based on their 3 cylinder 120 models weight of 220lbs +

accessories,

the 4 cylinder 160 model is going to weigh in at very close to 300lbs

(or

more) FWF, before you add the propellor, and that's a LOT of weight out

on

the nose of an Elite.

Don't want to rain on what you appear to have well thought out, just
cautioning to have a REALLY good clear look at what you are heading for

to

be certain this is the way to go. $15,000 GBpounds is a fair hunk of

dough

to be a "guinea pig" for their 160HP version. That's $35,800 Canadian
dollars. That will buy you about 1.75 freshly overhauled, dyno run,

PROVEN

160Hp Lycoming O-320's!

Cheers,
Wayne

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