The Murphy Builders Site

Steve, this has been covered many times on this list and should be easy to
pull up in the archives. Have never heard of the seat rail measurements as
MAM screwing up, just guys being confused or questioning the fact that the
pilot side rails are 1" further inboard than the passenger side seat. Ie:
they are not semetical. This is to allow the pilot seat to clear the 1" push
pull tube that runs along the pilots door sill area, from the forward
bellcrank to the mixer bellcrank.

Hopefully someone that has the spring gear mounting and layering of panels
freshly in their mind will jump in and help you with your other question.
It's a matter of adding up all the dimensions and making sure that you have
the same thickness at the front and rear bolting area's of the saddles. I
will go through my pictures and see if I can respark my own mind, as I know
the one I did for Mike Fuller didn't really seem to work out right and will
most likely require the front saddle bolt to be shimmed by a small amount.
On Bernie D's rebuild I found that he had the layers in a different order
than spelled out in the manual as well as an extra shim layer on one side
and it worked out perfectly even.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <stevew@dcsol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 3:44 PM

Hello fellow Rebel builders.

Wayne O finally steered me in the right direction to this wealth of info.

Just

found out last night that MAM screwed up on the seat rail measurements

which

means I did too! Channels are already in.

I have a problem with the assembly of the front lower corner wrap(fus452),

the

corner angle (fus 35), SG 13 & 7. This seems like it could end in one big
mess. Does the angle overlap SG 13 & 7, or are SG 13 & 7 trimmed flush

with

the angle? Do you allow enough material of the corner wrap to remain

under

the saddles for an even layering of material? Has anyone noticed how

close

the saddle holes are to the end of the carrythru's? I related what I found

to

Wayne in the message he sent " Many Questions-Few Answers". Has anyone

noticed

how far in the 5/16 hole is on the photo for the spring gear mod using the
angle? I estimated that it is about 3/8 of an inch which would made it no
doubtly stronger with more material between the hole and the end of the

tube.

I haven't drilled out the saddle holes any larger than 3/32 but am

seriously

thinking of moving them in a bit further. My measurements are exactly as

MAM

has published but I don't like the little edge distance at the end of the
tubes; especially afer reading what trouble has been experienced.

Thnaks in advance

Steve W

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Hi Wayne and thanks for the info. I built a Christavia on floats and flew it
for 400hrs while stationed in Newfoundland(float plane paradise) and had
little to consult for problems while building. This web page is an extremely
invaluable source of info.

I fully understand the reasoning for the 1 inch difference for the seat rails.
If you have the same manuel I do, look at page 13-87 dated 29/04/98. It shows
the centering of the seat rails at 10 5/8". I understand that u shud have the
rails centered under the double C channel or "I" beam the best u can, a little
bit left or right for edge distance as the rails are much wider that the I
beam. I constructed the floor channels exactly as dipicted on this page.The
rail guides on the seat bottoms are centered at 9 5/8 ". The rail on one side
of one seat could be centered but the other rail (of the same seat) would only
cover one half of the I beam. I brought up someone elses mail on this topic
sometime ago that had the same problem. I just ran a third piece of channel
where the void was. Hope this is not too confusing.

I think I have the idea with the lay up on the front of the fuselage. I have
to flip it over and look at it again with yr info. I left all of the fus-452
so I would have lost of material to work with. Just finished drilling floor
pannels and channels/seat rails over the weekend so am ready to go back at the
bottom. I quess where this gear was a mod or option, the manuel isn't very
helpful when it is being incorporated in a newly constructed plane.

Thanks again

Steve WHITENECT



-> X--> Steve, this has been covered many times on this list and should be
easy to
-> pull up in the archives. Have never heard of the seat rail measurements as
-> MAM screwing up, just guys being confused or questioning the fact that the
-> pilot side rails are 1" further inboard than the passenger side seat. Ie:
-> they are not semetical. This is to allow the pilot seat to clear the 1" push
-> pull tube that runs along the pilots door sill area, from the forward
-> bellcrank to the mixer bellcrank.
->
-> Hopefully someone that has the spring gear mounting and layering of panels
-> freshly in their mind will jump in and help you with your other question.
-> It's a matter of adding up all the dimensions and making sure that you have
-> the same thickness at the front and rear bolting area's of the saddles. I
-> will go through my pictures and see if I can respark my own mind, as I know
-> the one I did for Mike Fuller didn't really seem to work out right and will
-> most likely require the front saddle bolt to be shimmed by a small amount.
-> On Bernie D's rebuild I found that he had the layers in a different order
-> than spelled out in the manual as well as an extra shim layer on one side
-> and it worked out perfectly even.
->
-> Cheers,
-> Wayne
->
-> ----- Original Message -----
-> From: <stevew@dcsol.com>
-> To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
-> Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 3:44 PM
->
->
-> >
-> > -> >
-> >
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-> > To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> >
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-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
->
->




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Gee, I don't have a manual anywhere near that new and it sounds like it's a
good thing ;o)))!! (actually I did have a copy of the fus and spring gear
section for Mike Fullers here when I built his, but I gave it back when the
fuselage left the shop.

What is happening here, Steve, is the original construction only had one
piece of channel under each of the seat rails (I like to use cut offs from
bulkheads here instead of ST-31). The seat rail would sit on them to pick up
the flange of the single "C" channel on one side of the rail only and the
other side was simply riveted to the floor skin. I guess they decided to
reinforce this area somewhat, but it would defiinitely make more sense to
space the channels so each side of the rails rivet holes picked up a C
channel flange now wouldn't it!!??

I don't know if any of the pics I posted show it, put instead of using the
mattress suggestion in the Manual to place the fuselage on the floor upside
down (because this caves in the roof!) I bolt a piece of angle into the
fuselage front wing attach holes, that sticks out about 6 inches. The angle
faces are oriented so one of course bolts to the attach hole face and the
other face of the angle sits tightly against the TOP of the carrythrough's
inside wall. I then place the fuselage upside down with a piece of SM foam
under the fin and the two angle extensions sitting on 6" x 6" blocks so the
cabin roof clears the floor.

You did look at the pics I posted in reference to the layering of the floor
skins, for the spring gear "mod"??

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <stevew@dcsol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: Seat Rail postion

Hi Wayne and thanks for the info. I built a Christavia on floats and flew

it

for 400hrs while stationed in Newfoundland(float plane paradise) and had
little to consult for problems while building. This web page is an

extremely

invaluable source of info.

I fully understand the reasoning for the 1 inch difference for the seat

rails.

If you have the same manuel I do, look at page 13-87 dated 29/04/98. It

shows

the centering of the seat rails at 10 5/8". I understand that u shud have

the

rails centered under the double C channel or "I" beam the best u can, a

little

bit left or right for edge distance as the rails are much wider that the I
beam. I constructed the floor channels exactly as dipicted on this

page.The

rail guides on the seat bottoms are centered at 9 5/8 ". The rail on one

side

of one seat could be centered but the other rail (of the same seat) would

only

cover one half of the I beam. I brought up someone elses mail on this

topic

sometime ago that had the same problem. I just ran a third piece of

channel

where the void was. Hope this is not too confusing.

I think I have the idea with the lay up on the front of the fuselage. I

have

to flip it over and look at it again with yr info. I left all of the

fus-452

so I would have lost of material to work with. Just finished drilling

floor

pannels and channels/seat rails over the weekend so am ready to go back at

the

bottom. I quess where this gear was a mod or option, the manuel isn't

very

helpful when it is being incorporated in a newly constructed plane.

Thanks again

Steve WHITENECT



-> X--> Steve, this has been covered many times on this list and should be
easy to
-> pull up in the archives. Have never heard of the seat rail measurements

as

-> MAM screwing up, just guys being confused or questioning the fact that

the

-> pilot side rails are 1" further inboard than the passenger side seat.

Ie:

-> they are not semetical. This is to allow the pilot seat to clear the 1"

push

-> pull tube that runs along the pilots door sill area, from the forward
-> bellcrank to the mixer bellcrank.
->
-> Hopefully someone that has the spring gear mounting and layering of

panels

-> freshly in their mind will jump in and help you with your other

question.

-> It's a matter of adding up all the dimensions and making sure that you

have

-> the same thickness at the front and rear bolting area's of the saddles.

I

-> will go through my pictures and see if I can respark my own mind, as I

know

-> the one I did for Mike Fuller didn't really seem to work out right and

will

-> most likely require the front saddle bolt to be shimmed by a small

amount.

-> On Bernie D's rebuild I found that he had the layers in a different

order

-> than spelled out in the manual as well as an extra shim layer on one

side

-> and it worked out perfectly even.
->
-> Cheers,
-> Wayne
->
-> ----- Original Message -----
-> From: <stevew@dcsol.com>
-> To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
-> Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 3:44 PM
->
->
-> >
-> > -> >
-> >
->

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-> >
->

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Wayne, lightbulb just lit up. A .032 shim full size to cover the carrythrus
for the extra thickness of the .032 fus 452 and the .040 fus 35 for and even
layer straight across! GOT IT. I kept thinking why would u bolt the saddles
on an uneven layer so close to the ends of the carrythrus. Didn't have time
to look at the pics yesterday at the time I replied to yr message but looking
at them and reading the description a number of times, as I said, the bulb
came on. I had been thinking about extending the fus452 to be completely under
the saddle out to the ends of the carrythrus but with the fus 35s, this would
have been too many thicknesses.

As far as the manuel goes, I realized very quickly how much it lacked in
detail when I started making the same errors trying to correct the mistakes
the two previous owners made. One had gotten as far as the ailerons and the
other tried to assemble some of the tail group. It led me down the same trail
to a mistake.

For turning the fuse over, I clamp a shouldered piece of 2 X 2 that extends
beyond the roof to both sides. Does the same thing.

Thanks again for the great info. Its like being rejuvinated for the next
weekend in the garage! Take care to all.

Steve W


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