The Murphy Builders Site

I never liked the "comb" look of the aluminum baffle after it has sat on

fins and cut into the baffle.

Has anyone modified the cowling inlets for the Rebel speed cowl? The #1
cylinder (Lycoming) is about 3" back from the front of the cowling. It

though the air wants to hit the baffle and bounce right back out. Someone

published info about the inlet air wanting to come back out near the prop

and now I can see why. I plan to modify the inlet so that there is a

transition for the inlet air. If anyone has done this already I would like

see their work. My plan is to fiberglass a ramp up to within 1" of the

and then rivet a piece of silicone baffle seal onto the ramp. The silicone
baffle seal will rest right up against the cylinder fins and will curl

I never liked the "comb" look of the aluminum baffle after it has sat on

fins and cut into the baffle.
If you look at some of the RV's you will see how they use a baffle in the

center of the engine to contain the air and force it out through the cyl

I plan to add that on my Rebel also. Any comments will be appreciated.
Good luck, you'll need it and more
Rick D
Rebel 404R (trying to finish engine baffling)




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-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
rebel@dcsol.com
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 9:43 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Rebel cowl mods


Has anyone modified the cowling inlets for
the Rebel speed cowl? The #1
cylinder (Lycoming) is about 3" back from
the front of the cowling. It looks as
though the air wants to hit the baffle and
bounce right back out. Someone has
published info about the inlet air wanting
to come back out near the prop hub
and now I can see why. I plan to modify the
inlet so that there is a smoother
transition for the inlet air. If anyone has
done this already I would like to
see their work. My plan is to fiberglass a
ramp up to within 1" of the cylinder
and then rivet a piece of silicone baffle
seal onto the ramp. The silicone
baffle seal will rest right up against the
cylinder fins and will curl upwards.
I never liked the "comb" look of the
aluminum baffle after it has sat on the
fins and cut into the baffle.
If you look at some of the RV's you will see
how they use a baffle in the front
center of the engine to contain the air and
force it out through the cyl fins.
I plan to add that on my Rebel also. Any
comments will be appreciated.
Good luck, you'll need it and more
Rick D
Rebel 404R (trying to finish engine baffling)




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If you search back in the archives, you will find that
I and a few others have had a lot of cooling problems
with the 0320 and the fibreglass cowl.

I have a baffle in front that ramps the air up from the
inlet to more than half way up the cylinder. Also, I
have cut back the inlet lips and smoothed them up to
the cowl top.

If I were doing my cowl over, I would also make the
inlets bigger overall, as I know a couple of local guys
here have done to solve the cooling problem. This is on
floats. On wheels it is OK, but floats slows it down
just enough, and of course, you have to climb longer at
full power to get up to altitude, so on climb it just
heats up more than you want.

I have done everything possible with the outlets, as
has been described on this list, and it is still just
barely acceptable. I just think there isn't enough
getting in the front. When I look at a 172 or 180, they
have about 3 times as much inlet area as this cowl.

I might mention that this was with the Warp Drive prop.
Now with my Sensenich, it is definitely running about
50 degrees F cooler, but it is also winter now.

Never had a problem with oil cooling, just CHT's. In
fact right now, I have 2/3 of my cooler taped off to
make it run warmer.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
rebel@dcsol.com
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 9:43 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Rebel cowl mods


Has anyone modified the cowling inlets for
the Rebel speed cowl? The #1
cylinder (Lycoming) is about 3" back from
the front of the cowling. It looks as
though the air wants to hit the baffle and
bounce right back out. Someone has
published info about the inlet air wanting
to come back out near the prop hub
and now I can see why. I plan to modify the
inlet so that there is a smoother
transition for the inlet air. If anyone has
done this already I would like to
see their work. My plan is to fiberglass a
ramp up to within 1" of the cylinder
and then rivet a piece of silicone baffle
seal onto the ramp. The silicone
baffle seal will rest right up against the
cylinder fins and will curl upwards.
I never liked the "comb" look of the
aluminum baffle after it has sat on the
fins and cut into the baffle.
If you look at some of the RV's you will see
how they use a baffle in the front
center of the engine to contain the air and
force it out through the cyl fins.
I plan to add that on my Rebel also. Any
comments will be appreciated.
Good luck, you'll need it and more
Rick D
Rebel 404R (trying to finish engine baffling)

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
rebel@dcsol.com
Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 7:12 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Rebel cowl mods


Thanks for your inputs. It looks as though
I'm on the right track. Walter, if
you look at my modified cowling pictures at
this site (Rick DeCiero-cowling
mods)you will see that I have already dealt
with the exit air problem. That
should help a lot. If you have some pictures
of your modifications please
post them if possible.
I will go back to the Bingiles books again
to see if I've missed any of his
comments. What would we do without those
great books? Thanks TONY! I wish I
had been able to thank him prersonally.
Over the holidays I was able to finally
figure out how to get my camcorder to
dump pictures into the computer. With a
"FIREWIRE" card added to the computer
all I need to do is, 1-record video of the
subject, 2-plug the camcorder into
the FIREWIRE card, 3-play the camcorder in
VCR mode and pause it when I have
an image that I want to use and click on the
appropriate button for image
taking. 4-Save the image. It is now very
easy for me to get pictures out to
the world. If you have specific areas of my
Rebel that you need a picture of,
let me know and I will try to post it for
you. Be aware that the airplane is
almost complete and pictures of final
assemblies are about all that I can
provide.

Good luck, you'll need it,
Rick D.
Rebel S/N 404R



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-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
rebel@dcsol.com
Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 4:54 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Rebel cowl mods


Walter,
I have no plans for floats but you never
know that water flying sure looks
like fun. Your exit opening looks similar to
the one posted here under Howard
Hanford's. My exit was a lot of work but it
came out clean looking. There is
a picture of some low openings on a cowling
on page 95 (upper right)of "The
Sportplane Builder". Ken had mentioned the
extended lip.The author is talking
about the right side cylinder as you look
aft. This would be the #2 on a
Lycoming and you always reference left or
right as viewed from the drivers
(pilot) seat. My interpertation of the text
is that the author saw an
extended lip on the upper portion of the
cowl to catch the air as it was
dragged up by the prop.(unless the Franklin
turns CCW (from cockpit)). Air
rally does some funny stuff in the front of
an engine. The pictures of some
prop tuff testing are shown on this site.
MAM gave me the wrong templates for the
baffles. Maybe they never produced
them for the Dynafocal mount and thought I
would'nt notice. Another "Murphy
Mine" as Geert would say. An old set from a
C172 is working out well as
templates. That left rear baffle is a
challange. A coulple of more weeks
should see me with finished baffles. The
cowl mods will have to wait for
warmer weather.
Good luck, you'll need it and a lot more,
and please don't tell me it's worth
it. (humor)
Rick D.
Rebel S/N 404R
-> Rick, your exit looks good, and should
work well, on
-> wheels for sure. However, I have been
there with mine,
-> and had to enlarge it even further
(similar shape) to
-> maximize the airflow. I need to update my
website one
-> of these years, so I don't have any good photos to
-> show. Here's one from MAM's site with my plane at
-> Arlington. If you look carefully you will
see that it
-> is quite big. Some locals at my airport
here call it my
-> chinstrap.
-> http://www.murphyair.com/images/Arling02/Klatt.htm
-> This was about my 4th iteration, each
slightly larger.
-> As I said, it now works, but just barely
acceptable.
-> Bear in mind, I am talking about fully
loaded on floats
-> in 30+ C summer heat and long climbs.
Normal conditions
-> and on wheels are OK.
->
-> Like I said, if I was still at the cowl
fitting stage,
-> I would make the inlets larger, too.
->
-> Walter



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Thanks Ken. An upper lip on the inlet is a new idea
I've not heard about yet. I don't have that book,
sounds like a good one. Maybe I'll try to find a copy.
At least I have another thing to try.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
rebel@dcsol.com
Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 4:54 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Rebel cowl mods


Walter,
I have no plans for floats but you never
know that water flying sure looks
like fun. Your exit opening looks similar to
the one posted here under Howard
Hanford's. My exit was a lot of work but it
came out clean looking. There is
a picture of some low openings on a cowling
on page 95 (upper right)of "The
Sportplane Builder". Ken had mentioned the
extended lip.The author is talking
about the right side cylinder as you look
aft. This would be the #2 on a
Lycoming and you always reference left or
right as viewed from the drivers
(pilot) seat. My interpertation of the text
is that the author saw an
extended lip on the upper portion of the
cowl to catch the air as it was
dragged up by the prop.(unless the Franklin
turns CCW (from cockpit)). Air
rally does some funny stuff in the front of
an engine. The pictures of some
prop tuff testing are shown on this site.
MAM gave me the wrong templates for the
baffles. Maybe they never produced
them for the Dynafocal mount and thought I
would'nt notice. Another "Murphy
Mine" as Geert would say. An old set from a
C172 is working out well as
templates. That left rear baffle is a
challange. A coulple of more weeks
should see me with finished baffles. The
cowl mods will have to wait for
warmer weather.
Good luck, you'll need it and a lot more,
and please don't tell me it's worth
it. (humor)
Rick D.
Rebel S/N 404R
-> Rick, your exit looks good, and should
work well, on
-> wheels for sure. However, I have been
there with mine,
-> and had to enlarge it even further
(similar shape) to
-> maximize the airflow. I need to update my
website one
-> of these years, so I don't have any good photos to
-> show. Here's one from MAM's site with my plane at
-> Arlington. If you look carefully you will
see that it
-> is quite big. Some locals at my airport
here call it my
-> chinstrap.
-> http://www.murphyair.com/images/Arling02/Klatt.htm
-> This was about my 4th iteration, each
slightly larger.
-> As I said, it now works, but just barely
acceptable.
-> Bear in mind, I am talking about fully
loaded on floats
-> in 30+ C summer heat and long climbs.
Normal conditions
-> and on wheels are OK.
->
-> Like I said, if I was still at the cowl
fitting stage,
-> I would make the inlets larger, too.
->
-> Walter



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---------------------------------------------
------------------------

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---------------------------------------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Drew Dalgleish
Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 5:44 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Rebel cowl mods


A freind did extensive cowl mods to a cessna
150 aerobat including an upper
lip on the intake.
The change he said made the most improvement
was a lenghthwise baffle along
the top of the engine case. He claimed it
greatly reduced the turbulance on
top of the engine. When he was finished he
had reduced the intake openings
to less than half of their origional size.
Drew


At 05:07 PM 1/11/2003 -0800, you wrote:

Thanks Ken. An upper lip on the inlet is a new idea
I've not heard about yet. I don't have that book,
sounds like a good one. Maybe I'll try to

find a copy.

At least I have another thing to try.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
rebel@dcsol.com
Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 4:54 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Rebel cowl mods


Walter,
I have no plans for floats but you never
know that water flying sure looks
like fun. Your exit opening looks similar to
the one posted here under Howard
Hanford's. My exit was a lot of work but it
came out clean looking. There is
a picture of some low openings on a cowling
on page 95 (upper right)of "The
Sportplane Builder". Ken had mentioned the
extended lip.The author is talking
about the right side cylinder as you look
aft. This would be the #2 on a
Lycoming and you always reference left or
right as viewed from the drivers
(pilot) seat. My interpertation of the text
is that the author saw an
extended lip on the upper portion of the
cowl to catch the air as it was
dragged up by the prop.(unless the Franklin
turns CCW (from cockpit)). Air
rally does some funny stuff in the front of
an engine. The pictures of some
prop tuff testing are shown on this site.
MAM gave me the wrong templates for the
baffles. Maybe they never produced
them for the Dynafocal mount and thought I
would'nt notice. Another "Murphy
Mine" as Geert would say. An old set from a
C172 is working out well as
templates. That left rear baffle is a
challange. A coulple of more weeks
should see me with finished baffles. The
cowl mods will have to wait for
warmer weather.
Good luck, you'll need it and a lot more,
and please don't tell me it's worth
it. (humor)
Rick D.
Rebel S/N 404R
-> Rick, your exit looks good, and should
work well, on
-> wheels for sure. However, I have been
there with mine,
-> and had to enlarge it even further
(similar shape) to
-> maximize the airflow. I need to update my
website one
-> of these years, so I don't have any

good photos to

-> show. Here's one from MAM's site with

my plane at

-> Arlington. If you look carefully you will
see that it
-> is quite big. Some locals at my airport
here call it my
-> chinstrap.
->

http://www.murphyair.com/images/Arling02/Klatt.htm

-> This was about my 4th iteration, each
slightly larger.
-> As I said, it now works, but just barely
acceptable.
-> Bear in mind, I am talking about fully
loaded on floats
-> in 30+ C summer heat and long climbs.
Normal conditions
-> and on wheels are OK.
->
-> Like I said, if I was still at the cowl
fitting stage,
-> I would make the inlets larger, too.
->
-> Walter



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--------------------------------------------

-------------------------

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--------------------------------------------

-------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------




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---------------------------------------------
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Hmmm, this makes me wonder if there is any merit in
sanding the inside top of the cowl to reduce turbulence
in there and maybe speed up the airflow. I did that
with the inlet areas to provide a smooth transition to
the cowl top, but not the whole thing.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Drew Dalgleish
Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 5:44 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Rebel cowl mods


A freind did extensive cowl mods to a cessna
150 aerobat including an upper
lip on the intake.
The change he said made the most improvement
was a lenghthwise baffle along
the top of the engine case. He claimed it
greatly reduced the turbulance on
top of the engine. When he was finished he
had reduced the intake openings
to less than half of their origional size.
Drew


At 05:07 PM 1/11/2003 -0800, you wrote:

Thanks Ken. An upper lip on the inlet is a new idea
I've not heard about yet. I don't have that book,
sounds like a good one. Maybe I'll try to

find a copy.

At least I have another thing to try.

Walter

good photos to

my plane at

http://www.murphyair.com/images/Arling02/Klatt.htm

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UNSUBSCRIBE murphy-rebel in the message

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mike.davis@dcsol.com

--------------------------------------------

-------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------




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Howard filled his in with fiberglass from the inlet hole lip to the cowl
inner top (forming an upside down ramp) to give a smoother air flow at the
inlets with a slight improvement in CHT temperatures.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <walter.klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 12:25 PM
Subject: RE: Rebel cowl mods

Hmmm, this makes me wonder if there is any merit in
sanding the inside top of the cowl to reduce turbulence
in there and maybe speed up the airflow. I did that
with the inlet areas to provide a smooth transition to
the cowl top, but not the whole thing.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Drew Dalgleish
Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 5:44 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Rebel cowl mods


A freind did extensive cowl mods to a cessna
150 aerobat including an upper
lip on the intake.
The change he said made the most improvement
was a lenghthwise baffle along
the top of the engine case. He claimed it
greatly reduced the turbulance on
top of the engine. When he was finished he
had reduced the intake openings
to less than half of their origional size.
Drew


At 05:07 PM 1/11/2003 -0800, you wrote: find a copy. good photos to my plane at http://www.murphyair.com/images/Arling02/Klatt.htm ------------------------- list-server@dcsol.com with body on a line by itself. mike.davis@dcsol.com -------------------------
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-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Brian Cross
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 2:39 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Rebel cowl mods


The ramp that Wayne is referring to is
standard on the RV aircraft &
spelled in on their drawings. They just
glass in a ramp to go from the top
of the inlet to the underside of the upper
portion of the cowl. I think
that is a very logical step as otherwise,
turbulence will surely result
there & presume total CFM into the cowl
would be reduced.

Brian #328R


At 12:31 PM 01/12/2003 -0500, you wrote:

Howard filled his in with fiberglass from

the inlet hole lip to the cowl

inner top (forming an upside down ramp) to

give a smoother air flow at the

inlets with a slight improvement in CHT

temperatures.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <walter.klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 12:25 PM
Subject: RE: Rebel cowl mods

Hmmm, this makes me wonder if there is

any merit in

sanding the inside top of the cowl to

reduce turbulence

in there and maybe speed up the airflow.

I did that

with the inlet areas to provide a smooth

transition to

the cowl top, but not the whole thing.

Walter

is a new idea

have that book,

http://www.murphyair.com/images/Arling02/Klatt.htm

---------------------------------------------

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--------------------------------------------

-------------------------



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