The Murphy Builders Site

What procedure do you use when deburring? What tools? How do you know when
a particular piece or hole is deburred?

Specifically, I'm currently working on the aileron ribs, and I'm using the
"spin the drill bit between the fingers" method. Problem is, deburring the
backside of a hole using the tools that I have is close to impossible, and I
find it somewhat unlikely that everyone goes through this much trouble
deburring holes. It took me close to an hour last night just to do 40
holes.

After doing some searching on the Internet and the archives, I've read that
people do this differently. Some use special tools to debur the backside of
the piece they're working on. Some use Scotchbrite and just run up and down
the backside as needed. I've read that some use small files and just run it
down the piece once or twice, and that's deburred.

When I've helped other builders, "deburred" has always been when the
hole/edge was, well, babies butt smooth. Reading on the Inet, deburred goes
from there to just knocking off anything that would damage the rivet (if it
doesn't cut you, it's deburred, type of thing). So, what would you call a
drill hole that's deburred?

Your input is appriciated.
Rob Luce
http://www.shepluce.com/





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First... Why are we debur ring. The primary reason is to eliminate what my
mechanical engineering friends call stress risers. If we leave the sharp
edges present, all the force will concentrate where the bur is and the chance
of a crack forming is great. By deburring the load is uniformly distributed
around the hole and eliminating the stress risers thus reducing the risk of
cracking. If you follow the threads in the email on mounting windows they
indicate to oversize drill the holes. This is doing essentially the same
thing. We are ensuring that the load around the rivet is distributed into the
flat metal that holds the window in and not directly between the rivet and
window.

Given this, the key thing is to make the edge of the hole very uniform around
the rim. I have used your patented spin the drill between the fingers method.
I have also used a flat file. I have used sand paper. I have used
scotchbrite. My method of establishing success is uniformity around the edge
of the hole.

Other thoughts?

Rick Muller
SR070


On Wed, 18 Dec 2002 16:47:19 -0600 Rob Luce <rob@shepluce.com> wrote:

What procedure do you use when deburring? What
tools? How do you know when
a particular piece or hole is deburred?

Specifically, I'm currently working on the
aileron ribs, and I'm using the
"spin the drill bit between the fingers"
method. Problem is, deburring the
backside of a hole using the tools that I have
is close to impossible, and I
find it somewhat unlikely that everyone goes
through this much trouble
deburring holes. It took me close to an hour
last night just to do 40
holes.

After doing some searching on the Internet and
the archives, I've read that
people do this differently. Some use special
tools to debur the backside of
the piece they're working on. Some use
Scotchbrite and just run up and down
the backside as needed. I've read that some
use small files and just run it
down the piece once or twice, and that's
deburred.

When I've helped other builders, "deburred" has
always been when the
hole/edge was, well, babies butt smooth.
Reading on the Inet, deburred goes
from there to just knocking off anything that
would damage the rivet (if it
doesn't cut you, it's deburred, type of thing).
So, what would you call a
drill hole that's deburred?

Your input is appriciated.
Rob Luce
http://www.shepluce.com/



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Rob,
All the techniques you mention I have used. I have purchased every tool
known to mankind and deburing just takes time. The best tool I have is a
battery powered screwdriver with a single flute cutter. This works great but
take care not to over debur. Boeing surplus has lots of deburing tools if
you have any friends in Seattle. A tool I picked up there that works on
blind holes has a cutter and a pilot, the cutter is spring loaded and slides
back into the pilot. Then it can be pushed through the hole so the back side
can then be debured. This tool retails for about $40 but used they are about
$2. Some are good and some need work, buy a hand full and use some for
parts.
Al
Moose, N526AP
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Luce" <rob@shepluce.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 2:47 PM
Subject: Deburring Technique

What procedure do you use when deburring? What tools? How do you know

when

a particular piece or hole is deburred?

Specifically, I'm currently working on the aileron ribs, and I'm using the
"spin the drill bit between the fingers" method. Problem is, deburring

the

backside of a hole using the tools that I have is close to impossible, and

I

find it somewhat unlikely that everyone goes through this much trouble
deburring holes. It took me close to an hour last night just to do 40
holes.

After doing some searching on the Internet and the archives, I've read

that

people do this differently. Some use special tools to debur the backside

of

the piece they're working on. Some use Scotchbrite and just run up and

down

the backside as needed. I've read that some use small files and just run

it

down the piece once or twice, and that's deburred.

When I've helped other builders, "deburred" has always been when the
hole/edge was, well, babies butt smooth. Reading on the Inet, deburred

goes

from there to just knocking off anything that would damage the rivet (if

it

doesn't cut you, it's deburred, type of thing). So, what would you call a
drill hole that's deburred?

Your input is appriciated.
Rob Luce
http://www.shepluce.com/

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Yes like Rick said.
I used a 12" drill bit for much of the inside of the ribs.
If I still felt a ridge after that I touched it up with sandpaper.
A small file worked well on the inside of the bottom of the rib where it
is flat. That's about the only way to do the stringers.
Ken

Rob Luce wrote:

What procedure do you use when deburring? What tools? How do you know when
a particular piece or hole is deburred?

Specifically, I'm currently working on the aileron ribs, and I'm using the
"spin the drill bit between the fingers" method. Problem is, deburring the
backside of a hole using the tools that I have is close to impossible, and I
find it somewhat unlikely that everyone goes through this much trouble
deburring holes. It took me close to an hour last night just to do 40
holes.

After doing some searching on the Internet and the archives, I've read that
people do this differently. Some use special tools to debur the backside of
the piece they're working on. Some use Scotchbrite and just run up and down
the backside as needed. I've read that some use small files and just run it
down the piece once or twice, and that's deburred.

When I've helped other builders, "deburred" has always been when the
hole/edge was, well, babies butt smooth. Reading on the Inet, deburred goes
from there to just knocking off anything that would damage the rivet (if it
doesn't cut you, it's deburred, type of thing). So, what would you call a
drill hole that's deburred?

Your input is appriciated.
Rob Luce
http://www.shepluce.com/

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Rob,
I had the same problem when I tried to deburr the holes at the small end of
the tip ribs of the horiz stab. So I asked the guys in the machine shop
where I work. They let me borrow a "Handi-Burr" made by Cogsdill
Enterprises of Walled Lake, MI. The Handi-Burr has a trapezoid-shaped
cutter with a cutting edge on each of the sloped sides of the trapezoid.
After you deburr one side, you push it through the hole and the cutter
retracts. Then you can deburr the other side and pull it out.

Practice on scrap before you use this tool. I found that it works best in a
1/4-inch air drill with the pressure set as low as possible (about 25 psi).
An electric drill has too much inertia and doesn't stop instantly when you
let go of the trigger. You only need 3-5 rotations with very light
pressure. A strong magnifying glass showed that the chamfer is small and
clean, and the entire burr is removed. I can do about 200 holes in an hour.

The down side is that the tool is pricey and each size hole needs a
different tool. I bought the 1/8-inch size from McMaster-Carr
(www.mcmaster.com, part #4262A31, US$48.93). The same tool is also
available from Aircraft Tool Supply (www.aircraft-tool.com, part # TD002,
US$57.95). Since McMaster is only 15 minutes from home, the decision of
where to buy was easy.

Good luck,
--
Roger Cole <rcole927@earthlink.net>
Elite 709


----------

From: "Rob Luce" <rob@shepluce.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Deburring Technique
Date: Wed, Dec 18, 2002, 4:47 PM

What procedure do you use when deburring? What tools? How do you know when
a particular piece or hole is deburred?

Specifically, I'm currently working on the aileron ribs, and I'm using the
"spin the drill bit between the fingers" method. Problem is, deburring the
backside of a hole using the tools that I have is close to impossible, and I
find it somewhat unlikely that everyone goes through this much trouble
deburring holes. It took me close to an hour last night just to do 40
holes.

After doing some searching on the Internet and the archives, I've read that
people do this differently. Some use special tools to debur the backside of
the piece they're working on. Some use Scotchbrite and just run up and down
the backside as needed. I've read that some use small files and just run it
down the piece once or twice, and that's deburred.

When I've helped other builders, "deburred" has always been when the
hole/edge was, well, babies butt smooth. Reading on the Inet, deburred goes
from there to just knocking off anything that would damage the rivet (if it
doesn't cut you, it's deburred, type of thing). So, what would you call a
drill hole that's deburred?

Your input is appriciated.
Rob Luce
http://www.shepluce.com/



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This is the same tool from Boeing Surplus for $2 each.
Al

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Cole" <rcole927@earthlink.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 8:03 PM
Subject: Re: Deburring Technique

Rob,
I had the same problem when I tried to deburr the holes at the small end

of

the tip ribs of the horiz stab. So I asked the guys in the machine shop
where I work. They let me borrow a "Handi-Burr" made by Cogsdill
Enterprises of Walled Lake, MI. The Handi-Burr has a trapezoid-shaped
cutter with a cutting edge on each of the sloped sides of the trapezoid.
After you deburr one side, you push it through the hole and the cutter
retracts. Then you can deburr the other side and pull it out.

Practice on scrap before you use this tool. I found that it works best in

a

1/4-inch air drill with the pressure set as low as possible (about 25

psi).

An electric drill has too much inertia and doesn't stop instantly when you
let go of the trigger. You only need 3-5 rotations with very light
pressure. A strong magnifying glass showed that the chamfer is small and
clean, and the entire burr is removed. I can do about 200 holes in an

hour.

The down side is that the tool is pricey and each size hole needs a
different tool. I bought the 1/8-inch size from McMaster-Carr
(www.mcmaster.com, part #4262A31, US$48.93). The same tool is also
available from Aircraft Tool Supply (www.aircraft-tool.com, part # TD002,
US$57.95). Since McMaster is only 15 minutes from home, the decision of
where to buy was easy.

Good luck,
--
Roger Cole <rcole927@earthlink.net>
Elite 709


----------

From: "Rob Luce" <rob@shepluce.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Deburring Technique
Date: Wed, Dec 18, 2002, 4:47 PM

What procedure do you use when deburring? What tools? How do you know

when

a particular piece or hole is deburred?

Specifically, I'm currently working on the aileron ribs, and I'm using

the

"spin the drill bit between the fingers" method. Problem is, deburring

the

backside of a hole using the tools that I have is close to impossible,

and I

find it somewhat unlikely that everyone goes through this much trouble
deburring holes. It took me close to an hour last night just to do 40
holes.

After doing some searching on the Internet and the archives, I've read

that

people do this differently. Some use special tools to debur the backside

of

the piece they're working on. Some use Scotchbrite and just run up and

down

the backside as needed. I've read that some use small files and just run

it

down the piece once or twice, and that's deburred.

When I've helped other builders, "deburred" has always been when the
hole/edge was, well, babies butt smooth. Reading on the Inet, deburred

goes

from there to just knocking off anything that would damage the rivet (if

it

doesn't cut you, it's deburred, type of thing). So, what would you call

a

drill hole that's deburred?

Your input is appriciated.
Rob Luce
http://www.shepluce.com/

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That's about the only way to do the

stringers.
Ken

I used a dremel tool with a flat cut off disk held
almost flat to the underside of the stringer. Cut's
the burrs off beatifully and and leaves a nice flat
surface. Can do a stringer underside in 5-10 minutes.

-Jason

=====
________________________________________________

Jason Beall
Super Rebel No. 131
Aberdeen, Scotland, UK
super_rebel131@yahoo.com

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Hi Rob, I use two methods. 1) Boeing Surplus (Seattle) sells a small bit that
goes in your drill. It has a pop out blade that deburrs the backside of the
hole. 2) a small file works great for long stretches of holes all in a row.

Scott Hibbs
Rebel300R

-> After doing some searching on the Internet and the archives, I've read that
-> people do this differently. Some use special tools to debur the backside of
-> the piece they're working on. Some use Scotchbrite and just run up and down
-> the backside as needed. I've read that some use small files and just run it
-> down the piece once or twice, and that's deburred.






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Rob Luce wrote:

What procedure do you use when deburring? What tools? How do you know when
a particular piece or hole is deburred?

Rob:

I purchased a 4 inch long Hex Debur Tool from Cleveland Aircraft Tools
http:www.clevelandtool.com for $11.00 US. I chuck it to my El Cheep-o Black &
Decker rechargeable screwdriver (purchase screwdriver that turns as slowly as
possible). The tool has a single cutting bit and can debur holes up to 3/16
inch. Be careful when putting this baby into action, as it typically needs only
one (360 degree) rotation of the tool. Care should be used when deburring thin
sheet too. Practice and don't push too hard. After I debur with the tool and
run my fingers over the holes and find a pesky burr, I will usually take my
handy "fine" Ignition File and knock it down. Sometimes it gets pretty tedious,
but that is just me.

For those inside holes I use my trusty Two-Way Debur Tool. I usually do this by
hand as I found that chucking it in a drill gets pretty aggressive. Stick it in
the hole . . .(whohoo) . . . pull outward with slight pressure and give it a
twist or two. Those can be purchased at Aircraft Tool Supply
http://www.aircraft-tool.com. Get your checkbook out as these range from $60.00
- $80.00 each, depending on size of hole. If you are lucky to live in Seattle,
a trip to Boeing Surplus could get you these for pennies on the dollar. I have
a couple each that will debur #30 and #11. VERY handy gagets indeed.

Thats it for now. I am going back to my Holiday cookies.

Your Pilot Pal,
Terry Dazey
Rebel 662







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I asked Darryl about this many years ago. He is most concerned about
builders over doing the deburring and making a sharp edge on the hole that
can actually cut through the rivet over time.

Both Darryl and the Tony Bingelis books recommend using a flat file or a
drill bit twisted between the fingers. When questioned about scratching the
aluminum, Darryl said he would rather have the scratches than an over
deburred hole.

I got so good at it that it took only one turn on the drill bit for each
hole. It went so fast I can't recall it being a problem. Often I would
deburr the holes while the epoxy chromate and catalyst were in the twenty
minute reaction time. Just get the rough burr off. If it gets to the
buttery smooth stage you have actually taken too much material.

The Bingelis books were the single best investment I made. They cost less
than some of the special tools I see being mentioned.

Terry Sack 279R
-----Original Message-----
From: Terry Dazey <dazey@earthlink.net>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Thursday, December 19, 2002 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: Deburring Technique

Rob Luce wrote:

What procedure do you use when deburring? What tools? How do you know

when

a particular piece or hole is deburred?

Rob:

I purchased a 4 inch long Hex Debur Tool from Cleveland Aircraft Tools
http:www.clevelandtool.com for $11.00 US. I chuck it to my El Cheep-o Black

&

Decker rechargeable screwdriver (purchase screwdriver that turns as slowly

as

possible). The tool has a single cutting bit and can debur holes up to 3/16
inch. Be careful when putting this baby into action, as it typically needs

only

one (360 degree) rotation of the tool. Care should be used when deburring

thin

sheet too. Practice and don't push too hard. After I debur with the tool

and

run my fingers over the holes and find a pesky burr, I will usually take my
handy "fine" Ignition File and knock it down. Sometimes it gets pretty

tedious,

but that is just me.

For those inside holes I use my trusty Two-Way Debur Tool. I usually do

this by

hand as I found that chucking it in a drill gets pretty aggressive. Stick

it in

the hole . . .(whohoo) . . . pull outward with slight pressure and give

it a

twist or two. Those can be purchased at Aircraft Tool Supply
http://www.aircraft-tool.com. Get your checkbook out as these range from

$60.00

- $80.00 each, depending on size of hole. If you are lucky to live in

Seattle,

a trip to Boeing Surplus could get you these for pennies on the dollar. I

have

a couple each that will debur #30 and #11. VERY handy gagets indeed.

Thats it for now. I am going back to my Holiday cookies.

Your Pilot Pal,
Terry Dazey
Rebel 662





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Today, I spent quite a bit of time working to debur the six stringers on the
SR2500 Horizontal Stab. Drilling through the skin and into the stringer in
many cases left a significant burr on the inside of the stringer. I found
this difficult to get at with my trusty drill bit (too thick), and it didn't
respond well to a standard deburring tool from the outside of the stringer.
Does anyone have a good technique or discovered a relatively easy way to
debur these pieces? I ended up using a smaller drill bit but found it
difficult to twist, especially with the arthritis in my right hand.

Thanks,

Jerry Folkerts

SR2500 #093





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