The Murphy Builders Site

Hi guys,
I know there has been a lot of chat in the past on prop selection and performance for the Rebel.
I am considering replacing my 72 inch 3 blade Warp Drive for something that is less likely to fail, however I don't want to compromise performance for safety unless necessary for my Lyc. 0320 E2D 160 hp.
I'm on skis for the winter and straight 1800 floats in the summer.
I'd like to know what props you all have found to work best for skis or wheels and what prop is best for floats?
I tried a McCauly 76-50 briefly last summer and found it a little lazy on takeoff but cruised nicely at 110 mph at 2350.
There is a Sensenich 74-54 off a Wag. 2+2 160 hp that is available that I am considering for ski flying.
Appreciate your thoughts.
regards

Ron Barber
Sudbury, Ont.
Rebel 061
I

Hi Ron,

MAM suggest a 74-56 Sensenich for a climb prop. I think 74-54 or 56 would be a good prop for your floats. I have a 74-56 and it climbs great, but I only get about 100 MPH at 2350, on a good day.

By the way, your 0320 E2D is only a 150 HP Lycoming, unless you modified it.

Bruce 357R

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Ron, have you had any trouble with the Warp Drive and the 160hp Lyc? Do you
have the square tips or round?

Scott

-> Hi guys,
-> I know there has been a lot of chat in the past on prop selection and =
-> performance for the Rebel.
-> I am considering replacing my 72 inch 3 blade Warp Drive for something =
-> that is less likely to fail, however I don't want to compromise =
-> performance for safety unless necessary for my Lyc. 0320 E2D 160 hp.
-> I'm on skis for the winter and straight 1800 floats in the summer.
-> I'd like to know what props you all have found to work best for skis or =
-> wheels and what prop is best for floats?
-> I tried a McCauly 76-50 briefly last summer and found it a little lazy =
-> on takeoff but cruised nicely at 110 mph at 2350.
-> There is a Sensenich 74-54 off a Wag. 2+2 160 hp that is available that =
-> I am considering for ski flying.
-> Appreciate your thoughts.
-> regards
->
-> Ron Barber
-> Sudbury, Ont.
-> Rebel 061
-> I
->





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I also have been running a Warp 72 inch with the wide
square tips on my 150 hp 0320 on 1800 amphibs. So far,
I have had no problems with it. However, I just bought
a 74 X 54 Sensenich metal 2 blader that I am in the
process of installing. Depending on weather, I may have
it ready next weekend. I did my climb, cruise and flat
out tests last weekend with the Warp, so should be in a
good position to compare apples to apples with the new
prop.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
scott.hibbs@dcsol.com
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 6:10 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: REBEL PROPS?


Ron, have you had any trouble with the Warp
Drive and the 160hp Lyc? Do you
have the square tips or round?

Scott

-> Hi guys,
-> I know there has been a lot of chat in
the past on prop selection and =
-> performance for the Rebel.
-> I am considering replacing my 72 inch 3
blade Warp Drive for something =
-> that is less likely to fail, however I
don't want to compromise =
-> performance for safety unless necessary
for my Lyc. 0320 E2D 160 hp.
-> I'm on skis for the winter and straight
1800 floats in the summer.
-> I'd like to know what props you all have
found to work best for skis or =
-> wheels and what prop is best for floats?
-> I tried a McCauly 76-50 briefly last
summer and found it a little lazy =
-> on takeoff but cruised nicely at 110 mph at 2350.
-> There is a Sensenich 74-54 off a Wag. 2+2
160 hp that is available that =
-> I am considering for ski flying.
-> Appreciate your thoughts.
-> regards
->
-> Ron Barber
-> Sudbury, Ont.
-> Rebel 061
-> I
->



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Walter,

I'm really looking forward to your Warp Drive/Sensencich comparison.

Bruce 357R

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Scott, after the initial 30 hours on a 160 hp 0320 my 72 inch square tip
prop began to self destruct. All 3 blade collars were cracked and one blade
actually twisted in the collar. I now have 50 hours on the replacement prop
with no signs of cracking yet.

regards
Ron

----- Original Message -----
From: <scott.hibbs@dcsol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 6:10 PM
Subject: RE: REBEL PROPS?

Ron, have you had any trouble with the Warp Drive and the 160hp Lyc? Do

you

have the square tips or round?

Scott

-> Hi guys,
-> I know there has been a lot of chat in the past on prop selection and =
-> performance for the Rebel.
-> I am considering replacing my 72 inch 3 blade Warp Drive for something

=

-> that is less likely to fail, however I don't want to compromise =
-> performance for safety unless necessary for my Lyc. 0320 E2D 160 hp.
-> I'm on skis for the winter and straight 1800 floats in the summer.
-> I'd like to know what props you all have found to work best for skis or

=

-> wheels and what prop is best for floats?
-> I tried a McCauly 76-50 briefly last summer and found it a little lazy

=

-> on takeoff but cruised nicely at 110 mph at 2350.
-> There is a Sensenich 74-54 off a Wag. 2+2 160 hp that is available that

=

-> I am considering for ski flying.
-> Appreciate your thoughts.
-> regards
->
-> Ron Barber
-> Sudbury, Ont.
-> Rebel 061
-> I
->

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Walter,

I am excited about seeing how your WD compares to the metal prop. Give us all
the details that you can when you are up and running.

Scott
Rebel300R



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Thanks for the info Ron, how much warning did you have? I am going to be
running a 140hp engine with an inline 4 cylinder so my pulses may be lower
than yours. Also, was Warp Drive friendly about free replacement blades?

Scott

-> Scott, after the initial 30 hours on a 160 hp 0320 my 72 inch square tip
-> prop began to self destruct. All 3 blade collars were cracked and one blade
-> actually twisted in the collar. I now have 50 hours on the replacement prop
-> with no signs of cracking yet.
->
-> regards
-> Ron




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Scott,

You should know if you don't already, Warp Drive will not even sell you a prop
(anymore) if they know you're putting it on a Lycoming. I had a conversation with the owner of Warp Drive two summers ago at AirVenture, when I was researching buying one for my Rebel because I liked the performance of the Warp Drive I had on my 912 Kitfox, and he told me this personally.

Even the possibility of a remote in-flight blade failure is not an experience you want to have. So, you have to ask yourself the question. Regardless of the performance figures, Is it worth putting a Warp Drive on your Lycoming? My answer is, of course not!

Bruce 357R

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Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that there has never been an in-flight prop failure (as in throwing a blade) of a Warp Drive prop that is in stock configuration. I believe there have been some failures of Warp blades in other in-flight adjustable systems, but again not the stock Warp Drive propeller.

I know a fellow locally who has the cracked collars on his Warp and he has put on over 300 hours since they first appeared and still believes it is safe. I check mine carefully with every pre-flight and since I don't have the cracks, I don't expect any sudden failure without ample warning.

I am not defending or recommending the Warp Drive here, but just want to be sure my information is not outdated and I understand my own risks, since I still fly behind the prop.

Walter


-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Legeorgen@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 12:27 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: REBEL PROPS?

Scott,

You should know if you don't already, Warp Drive will not even sell you a prop
(anymore) if they know you're putting it on a Lycoming. I had a conversation with the owner of Warp Drive two summers ago at AirVenture, when I was researching buying one for my Rebel because I liked the performance of the Warp Drive I had on my 912 Kitfox, and he told me this personally.

Even the possibility of a remote in-flight blade failure is not an experience you want to have. So, you have to ask yourself the question. Regardless of the performance figures, Is it worth putting a Warp Drive on your Lycoming? My answer is, of course not!

Bruce 357R

None that I know of, that weren't mounted in an aftermarket hub!!

Ron Hamson is on his 2nd or maybe it's his third set of blades on his 160HP Lyco and he showed me the large flakes of aluminum that fall off when it cracks. He hasn't had any blade slippage or failure and has a Sensenich to throw on come spring for his float flying.

"Knock on wood", my 70" three blade Warp Drive has survived for 7 years. 4 on a 100HP Lyco and 3 more in front of a 150 Hp Lyco. Still looks like brand new (or it would have been made into a wall ornament by now)!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: Walter Klatt (walter.klatt@shaw.ca)
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 8:32 PM
Subject: RE: REBEL PROPS?


Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that there has never been an in-flight prop failure (as in throwing a blade) of a Warp Drive prop that is in stock configuration. I believe there have been some failures of Warp blades in other in-flight adjustable systems, but again not the stock Warp Drive propeller.

I know a fellow locally who has the cracked collars on his Warp and he has put on over 300 hours since they first appeared and still believes it is safe. I check mine carefully with every pre-flight and since I don't have the cracks, I don't expect any sudden failure without ample warning.

I am not defending or recommending the Warp Drive here, but just want to be sure my information is not outdated and I understand my own risks, since I still fly behind the prop.

Walter


-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Legeorgen@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 12:27 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: REBEL PROPS?

Scott,

You should know if you don't already, Warp Drive will not even sell you a prop
(anymore) if they know you're putting it on a Lycoming. I had a conversation with the owner of Warp Drive two summers ago at AirVenture, when I was researching buying one for my Rebel because I liked the performance of the Warp Drive I had on my 912 Kitfox, and he told me this personally.

Even the possibility of a remote in-flight blade failure is not an experience you want to have. So, you have to ask yourself the question. Regardless of the performance figures, Is it worth putting a Warp Drive on your Lycoming? My answer is, of course not!

Bruce 357R

-> "Knock on wood", my 70" three blade Warp Drive has survived for 7 years. =
-> 4 on a 100HP Lyco and 3 more in front of a 150 Hp Lyco. Still looks like =
-> brand new (or it would have been made into a wall ornament by now)!
-> Wayne

Do all Lyc 0-320s use the same amount of flywheel? And/or, might there be enf
pulse difference between the higher compression 160 HP 0-320s and the 150 HP 0-
320s to cause trouble or concern on the Warp hub?
-Ben Ransom





-> ----- Original Message -----=20
-> From: Walter Klatt=20
-> To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com=20
-> Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 8:32 PM
-> Subject: RE: REBEL PROPS?
->
->
-> Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but it is my understanding =
-> that there has never been an in-flight prop failure (as in throwing a =
-> blade) of a Warp Drive prop that is in stock configuration. I believe =
-> there have been some failures of Warp blades in other in-flight =
-> adjustable systems, but again not the stock Warp Drive propeller.
-> =20
-> I know a fellow locally who has the cracked collars on his Warp and he =
-> has put on over 300 hours since they first appeared and still believes =
-> it is safe. I check mine carefully with every pre-flight and since I =
-> don't have the cracks, I don't expect any sudden failure without ample =
-> warning.
-> =20
-> I am not defending or recommending the Warp Drive here, but just want =
-> to be sure my information is not outdated and I understand my own risks, =
-> since I still fly behind the prop.
-> =20
-> Walter
-> =20
-> =20
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of =
-> Legeorgen@aol.com
-> Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 12:27 PM
-> To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
-> Subject: Re: REBEL PROPS?
->
->
-> Scott,
->
-> You should know if you don't already, Warp Drive will not even sell =
-> you a prop
-> (anymore) if they know you're putting it on a Lycoming. I had a =
-> conversation with the owner of Warp Drive two summers ago at AirVenture, =
-> when I was researching buying one for my Rebel because I liked the =
-> performance of the Warp Drive I had on my 912 Kitfox, and he told me =
-> this personally.=20
->
-> Even the possibility of a remote in-flight blade failure is not an =
-> experience you want to have. So, you have to ask yourself the question. =
-> Regardless of the performance figures, Is it worth putting a Warp Drive =
-> on your Lycoming? My answer is, of course not!
->
-> Bruce 357R=20
->





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Yes all the O-235/290/320/360/540's use the same style/weight of flywheel,
with the only real differnence in any of them being the size of the bushing
holes and as to whether the locator hole is bigger or smaller than all the
rest.

I still believe half the secret to my props longevity is its 70" length (vs
all the 72's that are cracking) with the 2" diameter difference creating a
different "tuning fork" frequency. The aluminum area outside the hub clamp
on the 72" props is still cracking apart EVEN with the harmonic balancer we
all discussed last year bolted onto the back of the flywheel, as is Ron's
case.

First this problem was only occuring on 160HP higher compression engines and
then it started to trickle into the 150 HP ones. I also have heard of one
guys 70" doing this as well on a 150Hp but haven't been able to confirm.

Wayne



----- Original Message -----
From: <bransom@dcsol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: REBEL PROPS?

-> "Knock on wood", my 70" three blade Warp Drive has survived for 7

years. =

-> 4 on a 100HP Lyco and 3 more in front of a 150 Hp Lyco. Still looks

like =

-> brand new (or it would have been made into a wall ornament by now)!
-> Wayne

Do all Lyc 0-320s use the same amount of flywheel? And/or, might there be

enf

pulse difference between the higher compression 160 HP 0-320s and the 150

HP 0-

320s to cause trouble or concern on the Warp hub?
-Ben Ransom





-> ----- Original Message -----=20
-> From: Walter Klatt=20
-> To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com=20
-> Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 8:32 PM
-> Subject: RE: REBEL PROPS?
->
->
-> Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but it is my understanding =
-> that there has never been an in-flight prop failure (as in throwing a =
-> blade) of a Warp Drive prop that is in stock configuration. I believe =
-> there have been some failures of Warp blades in other in-flight =
-> adjustable systems, but again not the stock Warp Drive propeller.
-> =20
-> I know a fellow locally who has the cracked collars on his Warp and

he =

-> has put on over 300 hours since they first appeared and still believes

=

-> it is safe. I check mine carefully with every pre-flight and since I =
-> don't have the cracks, I don't expect any sudden failure without ample

=

-> warning.
-> =20
-> I am not defending or recommending the Warp Drive here, but just want

=

-> to be sure my information is not outdated and I understand my own

risks, =

-> since I still fly behind the prop.
-> =20
-> Walter
-> =20
-> =20
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of

=

-> Legeorgen@aol.com
-> Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 12:27 PM
-> To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
-> Subject: Re: REBEL PROPS?
->
->
-> Scott,
->
-> You should know if you don't already, Warp Drive will not even sell

=

-> you a prop
-> (anymore) if they know you're putting it on a Lycoming. I had a =
-> conversation with the owner of Warp Drive two summers ago at

AirVenture, =

-> when I was researching buying one for my Rebel because I liked the =
-> performance of the Warp Drive I had on my 912 Kitfox, and he told me =
-> this personally.=20
->
-> Even the possibility of a remote in-flight blade failure is not an

=

-> experience you want to have. So, you have to ask yourself the question.

=

-> Regardless of the performance figures, Is it worth putting a Warp Drive

=

-> on your Lycoming? My answer is, of course not!
->
-> Bruce 357R=20
->

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Bruce, thanks for the information. I don't have a Lycoming but I am still
worried about it. No one has run a Warp Drive on a LOM engine to my knowledge.

Scott


-> Scott,
->
-> You should know if you don't already, Warp Drive will not even sell you a
-> prop
-> (anymore) if they know you're putting it on a Lycoming.
-> Bruce 357R




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Walter,

I am not personally aware of an "in-flight failure," as in throwing a blade (not to say there has not been any), but there have been many stock Warp Drives that have cracked and delimitated. Especially on the higher compression Lycoming's and I0 240 Continentals. If my hub or blade was cracked I personally would not fly it. If the manufacturer says don't do it then that should be a a good indication it's not a good idea, but you guys are on your own. So, I think a little common sense is needed.

Bruce 357R

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