The Murphy Builders Site

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:36 pm**

Hi

I don't have a throttle cable to play with but I am wondering if it is
practical to bend one 180 degrees with about a 7"radius (14"diameter). I
discounted this idea originally but got to thinking that some
installations probably have two 90 degree bends and this would be about
the same thing. This is for a Subaru with the butterfly located close to
the top center of the firewall which makes routing somewhat problematic
but straight through the firewall and a 180 back is one possibility.

Since the price is about the same, I was also wondering if a vernier
control is a good idea or if I should stick to a friction lock control.

thanks and Merry Christmas
Ken

PS. Wayne - if you can mount that bulkhead in the tailcone with clecos,
you could then perhaps remove it through the fuselage to install the
3/16" rivets before any of the other rivets.

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:36 pm**

Thanks Ken! The bulkhead in and out sounds like a good option for Ron as he
has already drilled out the multi-strap rivets for installation of the
"Ontario" doubler. Since my straps haven't broke and I already have a
doubler, I had planned to leave my straps in. SO Ron fit the new fittings
and then pull it all out to rivet the FUS84/88 assembly to the Fus-49
bulkhead if you can. Then put it back in. It will go in and out through the
larger hole in the Fus-31 as I have done that when building new. I'll figure
out my own plan of attack, but that sounds like it will work for you Ron.

As for the throttle cable, I strongly suggest to everyone with a
taildragging aircraft to get rid of the vernier throttle and use stricly a
friction lock. I can guarantee when all hell brakes loose that you will be
unable to push that button and pull to idle fast enough to save yourself.
TRUST ME I HAVE BEEN ALONG FOR THE RIDE and my ribs still hurt just thinking
about it!! Either use the supplied vernier control that MAM is/was suppling
with FWF packages ONLY after grinding the balls out of the control that
allow it to lock and be turned in and out or buy a friction lock control
cable. If you grind the balls out of the vernier one there is still a
friction control ring on it to add enough friction so it will stay where you
put it.

I will take a couple of the controls I have in the morning Ken and see how
tight I can radius them without binding in a 180* direction reversal.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "klehman" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 10:38 PM
Subject: throttle cable

Hi

I don't have a throttle cable to play with but I am wondering if it is
practical to bend one 180 degrees with about a 7"radius (14"diameter). I
discounted this idea originally but got to thinking that some
installations probably have two 90 degree bends and this would be about
the same thing. This is for a Subaru with the butterfly located close to
the top center of the firewall which makes routing somewhat problematic
but straight through the firewall and a 180 back is one possibility.

Since the price is about the same, I was also wondering if a vernier
control is a good idea or if I should stick to a friction lock control.

thanks and Merry Christmas
Ken

PS. Wayne - if you can mount that bulkhead in the tailcone with clecos,
you could then perhaps remove it through the fuselage to install the
3/16" rivets before any of the other rivets.

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:36 pm**

Ken,
Think about mounting a bell crank to the firewall. You could then run the
cable directly to one end of the crank and on the other end of the crank run
another cable to the butterfly.
I would stay away from a vernier THROTTLE cable. Mostly in windy conditions
you need instant throttle response without the complication of depressing the
button.
Rick D. Good luck you'll need it.
Rebel 404R

klehman wrote:

Hi

I don't have a throttle cable to play with but I am wondering if it is
practical to bend one 180 degrees with about a 7"radius (14"diameter). I
discounted this idea originally but got to thinking that some
installations probably have two 90 degree bends and this would be about
the same thing. This is for a Subaru with the butterfly located close to
the top center of the firewall which makes routing somewhat problematic
but straight through the firewall and a 180 back is one possibility.

Since the price is about the same, I was also wondering if a vernier
control is a good idea or if I should stick to a friction lock control.

thanks and Merry Christmas
Ken

PS. Wayne - if you can mount that bulkhead in the tailcone with clecos,
you could then perhaps remove it through the fuselage to install the
3/16" rivets before any of the other rivets.

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:36 pm**

Ken, measured a couple cables for you!

The ACS A-750's, that have just the spiral wound outer casing, can be
wrapped in a 360* circle with a 4" DIAMETER circle without any apparent
effect on push pull pressure required. Of course they are going to wear
quicker like this though!

The MAM cable with the black plastic outer casing and the multiple steel
strand reinforcement inside can be turned 180* but no tighter than an 8"
diameter (4" radius) reversal before the push/pull gets a bit harder.

As Rick has also pointed out a bellcrank might be a good idea, but make sure
you have the push pull going the right way for full throttle. I keep finding
homebuilts and ultralights, that I inspect as an advisor, that have the
throttle reversed (ie push to cut off, pull to full throttle). Wouldn't that
be "fun" on final approach, when you come up short of the threshold!! The
main cause of this are people/kit manufactures (Fisher for one) that are
using quadrants that belong in a boat!

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "klehman" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 10:38 PM
Subject: throttle cable

Hi

I don't have a throttle cable to play with but I am wondering if it is
practical to bend one 180 degrees with about a 7"radius (14"diameter). I
discounted this idea originally but got to thinking that some
installations probably have two 90 degree bends and this would be about
the same thing. This is for a Subaru with the butterfly located close to
the top center of the firewall which makes routing somewhat problematic
but straight through the firewall and a 180 back is one possibility.

Since the price is about the same, I was also wondering if a vernier
control is a good idea or if I should stick to a friction lock control.

thanks and Merry Christmas
Ken

PS. Wayne - if you can mount that bulkhead in the tailcone with clecos,
you could then perhaps remove it through the fuselage to install the
3/16" rivets before any of the other rivets.

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:36 pm**

Thanks Wayne and Rick
I also tried a 180 bend in the flap cable and it added about 1/8" play
which I imagine is indicative of what will happen with a throttle cable
as well :(. After reading about the success rate of guys trying to fly
with reversed flight controls I can't imagine someone deliberately
reversing even a throttle... I've spring loaded the butterfly to open
and the cable will pull (not push) it closed. And I'll make sure there
is no vernier adjustment. I had dismissed the idea of a firewall
bellcrank but after seriously considering one on the engine I'll look at
the firewall again. Man nothing seems simple when you convert an auto
engine and everything seems to take a couple of days of contemplation.
Pretty much the same as building a Rebel :)
Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

Ken, measured a couple cables for you!

The ACS A-750's, that have just the spiral wound outer casing, can be
wrapped in a 360* circle with a 4" DIAMETER circle without any apparent
effect on push pull pressure required. Of course they are going to wear
quicker like this though!

The MAM cable with the black plastic outer casing and the multiple steel
strand reinforcement inside can be turned 180* but no tighter than an 8"
diameter (4" radius) reversal before the push/pull gets a bit harder.

As Rick has also pointed out a bellcrank might be a good idea, but make sure
you have the push pull going the right way for full throttle. I keep finding
homebuilts and ultralights, that I inspect as an advisor, that have the
throttle reversed (ie push to cut off, pull to full throttle). Wouldn't that
be "fun" on final approach, when you come up short of the threshold!! The
main cause of this are people/kit manufactures (Fisher for one) that are
using quadrants that belong in a boat!

Cheers,
Wayne

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:36 pm**

Hi Ken !

Sounds like just a loop in the cable would be the simplest
way to go. The Rotax 912 has a similar setup, with the throttle
being spring-loaded to open - apparently this was to meet some
European standard....

If you want to use a GOOD vernier throttle cable which has
a large button that can be easily pushed by the heel or flat of
the hand when opening the throttle (unlike the one supplied with
the kits), you could try Ring Radiator Service, 33 Comstock Rd.,
Scarborough ((416) 755-5287. If they still do it, they DID sell
a beautiful cable, with whatever type of end on it you want,
complete, for about $35 !! - probably best to say it's for your
boat or combine harvester, though, as aircraft use makes them nervous ! ;-)

The vernier takes a bit of getting used to, but can be very
nice for cruising. Definitely a good idea for mixture controls
(although you won't have one of THOSE on the Sube ;-) )

....bobp

--------------------------orig.------------------------------------
At 01:49 PM 12/8/02 -0500, you wrote:

Thanks Wayne and Rick
I also tried a 180 bend in the flap cable and it added about 1/8" play
which I imagine is indicative of what will happen with a throttle cable
as well :(. After reading about the success rate of guys trying to fly
with reversed flight controls I can't imagine someone deliberately
reversing even a throttle... I've spring loaded the butterfly to open
and the cable will pull (not push) it closed. And I'll make sure there
is no vernier adjustment. I had dismissed the idea of a firewall
bellcrank but after seriously considering one on the engine I'll look at
the firewall again. Man nothing seems simple when you convert an auto
engine and everything seems to take a couple of days of contemplation.
Pretty much the same as building a Rebel :)
Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:
Ken, measured a couple cables for you!

The ACS A-750's, that have just the spiral wound outer casing, can be
wrapped in a 360* circle with a 4" DIAMETER circle without any apparent
effect on push pull pressure required. Of course they are going to wear
quicker like this though!

The MAM cable with the black plastic outer casing and the multiple steel
strand reinforcement inside can be turned 180* but no tighter than an 8"
diameter (4" radius) reversal before the push/pull gets a bit harder.

As Rick has also pointed out a bellcrank might be a good idea, but make sure
you have the push pull going the right way for full throttle. I keep finding
homebuilts and ultralights, that I inspect as an advisor, that have the
throttle reversed (ie push to cut off, pull to full throttle). Wouldn't that
be "fun" on final approach, when you come up short of the threshold!! The
main cause of this are people/kit manufactures (Fisher for one) that are
using quadrants that belong in a boat!

Cheers,
Wayne

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:11 pm**

Murray, I brought my throttle cable through higher up,
near level with the position inside the cockpit, and
then snaked it down to the carb attach point. I had
some pretty tight bends, especially near the bottom,
because my 0320 model has its carb mounted near the
back of the sump. However, it works fine, and no
problems at all with smooth bind free operation. I had
the same problem with the mixture cable with the tight
bends, but again no problems in operation.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Murray and Carol Cherkas
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 6:52 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: throttle cable

Hello All

If you bring the throttle cable straight
through the firewall,it would
interfere with the passenger brake.This
applies to the mixture cable as
well.
I was given a throttle cable with a firewall
fitting attached on it.Thisdoes
not seem to work . If it were to be brought
through the firewall higher up
the bends in it would be horrendous.
I asked the AME that gave me the cable if he
would use auto cables. Why not.
What has everyone else done here?

In advance, Thanks for the replies.

Troubled Murray

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:11 pm**

Hello All

If you bring the throttle cable straight through the firewall,it would
interfere with the passenger brake.This applies to the mixture cable as
well.
I was given a throttle cable with a firewall fitting attached on it.Thisdoes
not seem to work . If it were to be brought through the firewall higher up
the bends in it would be horrendous.
I asked the AME that gave me the cable if he would use auto cables. Why not.
What has everyone else done here?

In advance, Thanks for the replies.

Troubled Murray

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:11 pm**

Hi Walter:

Thanks for your input. I tried to bend this cable as you suggested without
kinking it. Just a little to tight a fit. Didn't quite get it fitted.
My AME said to go to NAPA, they had some cable that sort of ratcheted
somewhat so the cable wouldn't creep.Your idea would work if the cable
weren't so stiff.
Will let you know how eye make out.

Thanks Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Walter Klatt
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 6:14 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: throttle cable

Murray, I brought my throttle cable through higher up,
near level with the position inside the cockpit, and
then snaked it down to the carb attach point. I had
some pretty tight bends, especially near the bottom,
because my 0320 model has its carb mounted near the
back of the sump. However, it works fine, and no
problems at all with smooth bind free operation. I had
the same problem with the mixture cable with the tight
bends, but again no problems in operation.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Murray and Carol Cherkas
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 6:52 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: throttle cable

Hello All

If you bring the throttle cable straight
through the firewall,it would
interfere with the passenger brake.This
applies to the mixture cable as
well.
I was given a throttle cable with a firewall
fitting attached on it.Thisdoes
not seem to work . If it were to be brought
through the firewall higher up
the bends in it would be horrendous.
I asked the AME that gave me the cable if he
would use auto cables. Why not.
What has everyone else done here?

In advance, Thanks for the replies.

Troubled Murray

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:11 pm**

Hi Murray
As per Wayne's comments a few months ago I found the US$50. throttle
cables from Spruce have no trouble at all doing about a 2.5 inch radius
bend but I didn't try multiple bends.
However for another application, I'd be interested in the part number
and how it works out if you find a cable at NAPA.
Ken

Murray and Carol Cherkas wrote:

Hi Walter:

Thanks for your input. I tried to bend this cable as you suggested without
kinking it. Just a little to tight a fit. Didn't quite get it fitted.
My AME said to go to NAPA, they had some cable that sort of ratcheted
somewhat so the cable wouldn't creep.Your idea would work if the cable
weren't so stiff.
Will let you know how eye make out.

Thanks Murray

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:11 pm**

Hi Murray,

Have you looked into one of the cable bulkhead fittings that swivel, so the
cable can pass through the fire wall at an angle and not perpendicular to the
firewall? They are sold at Aircraft Spruce.

Bruce 357R

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:11 pm**

Murray and rebel builders,
The engine cables are definitly a challange. I will post some pictures
shortly showing how I installed the ones in my Rebel. see the description for
an explination of the shot. Also look at the modified speed cowl inlets that I
am working on. I ramped the lower inlets and also the upper inlets. It is hard
to show the upper inlet ramps. The lips that come as stock were cut out and the
edges has been rolled in and back.
Good luck, you'll need it,
Rick D.
Rebel 404R

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:11 pm**

Ken
Napa has a vernier cable however it is really stiff to operate. The cable
itself will make a sharp bend but too hard to pull in and out.I'm going to
call MAM on Monday, maybe I'll buy their cables. Will let you know how I
make out.Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
klehman@albedo.net
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 6:35 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: throttle cable

Hi Murray
As per Wayne's comments a few months ago I found the US$50. throttle
cables from Spruce have no trouble at all doing about a 2.5 inch radius
bend but I didn't try multiple bends.
However for another application, I'd be interested in the part number
and how it works out if you find a cable at NAPA.
Ken

Murray and Carol Cherkas wrote:

Hi Walter:

Thanks for your input. I tried to bend this cable as you suggested without
kinking it. Just a little to tight a fit. Didn't quite get it fitted.
My AME said to go to NAPA, they had some cable that sort of ratcheted
somewhat so the cable wouldn't creep.Your idea would work if the cable
weren't so stiff.
Will let you know how eye make out.

Thanks Murray

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:11 pm**

Hello Bruce

Haven't looked at the swivel fitting.Goint to talk to MAM on Monday. Will
let the list know how I make out.

Thanks for the help
Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Legeorgen@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 7:05 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: throttle cable

Hi Murray,

Have you looked into one of the cable bulkhead fittings that swivel, so the
cable can pass through the fire wall at an angle and not perpendicular to
the
firewall? They are sold at Aircraft Spruce.

Bruce 357R

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