The Murphy Builders Site

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:34 pm**

David,
When you ProSeal the wings be sure not to put so much material between the stringer in the tank and the root rib as to build a dam which will trap water or fuel that cannot be drained by the wing sump. This is especially easy in the wing with the flange turned out.
Ralph Baker

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:34 pm**

Ralph
I have pondered the discussion around this and was wondering if you (or any of our group) had any thoughts on drilling a couple of holes, maybe 3/16" or so in the veritcal web of the J section a bit outboard of the root end near where the proseal will be so the fuel/water etc can pass through. I suspect it would not be a big reduction in structural integrity there, what do you think?
Dave
Ralph Baker wrote:

David,When you ProSeal the wings be sure not to put so much material between the stringer in the tank and the root rib as to build a dam which will trap water or fuel that cannot be drained by the wing sump. This is especially easy in the wing with the flange turned out.Ralph Baker

--
David A. Ricker P. Eng.
Fall River, Nova Scotia
Canada

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:34 pm**

I'm pretty sure I drilled the stringers in my tanks. Either per the
instructions or suggestion from someone else in the group.
Drew
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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:34 pm**

Dave,
The further out you put the liquid passage the less complete the sumping. I would just cut the bottom stringer back from the root rib. The tank skins are far thicker than the basic wing skin and I can't imagine that a 1/2" would compromise strength.

As a note, we are now ready to put ours on the gear and the wings were the "low point". There is just so much work in them and when you get one done there is still another one to do. Keep pressing ahead. It is a real WOW! when it really looks like an airplane - even though there is a bunch to go. As you have undoubtedly discovered, the builders manual is the weak point. We discovered several inconsistencies. The door sills / gear mount cannot be built as MAM specifies. Read everything carefully and understand the intent and be wary of pitfalls. This will save drilling rivets that MAM should have alerted us to leave clecoed. Having said that, there is no other plane on the market that I would buy in preference to the Elite.
Ralph Baker

----- Original Message -----
From: David Ricker (ricker@dbis.ns.ca)
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: Wing Pro Sealing

Ralph
I have pondered the discussion around this and was wondering if you (or any of our group) had any thoughts on drilling a couple of holes, maybe 3/16" or so in the veritcal web of the J section a bit outboard of the root end near where the proseal will be so the fuel/water etc can pass through. I suspect it would not be a big reduction in structural integrity there, what do you think?
Dave
Ralph Baker wrote:
David,When you ProSeal the wings be sure not to put so much material between the stringer in the tank and the root rib as to build a dam which will trap water or fuel that cannot be drained by the wing sump. This is especially easy in the wing with the flange turned out.Ralph Baker

--
David A. Ricker P. Eng.
Fall River, Nova Scotia
Canada

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:34 pm**

Hey guys,

I don't know if this is pertinent or will influence this discussion,
but it's nice for me to be able to chime in every once in a while.

Sometime early in the building of our Rebel, a decision was made to
use aluminum fuel tanks instead of the original cells or wet-wings.
Our suggested plan and procedure was sent to Murphy for perusal. MAM
said that what we were suggesting doing seemed OK, but they also
highlighted that the J-stringers, both upper and lower, were critical
to wing strength and were not to be compromised in any way.

Take care.

Brian Lawson,
Windsor, Ontario.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

On Sat, 23 Nov 2002 21:13:42 -0500, you wrote:

Dave,
The further out you put the liquid passage the less complete the sumping. I would just cut the bottom stringer back from the root rib. The tank skins are far thicker than the basic wing skin and I can't imagine that a 1/2" would compromise strength.

As a note, we are now ready to put ours on the gear and the wings were the "low point". There is just so much work in them and when you get one done there is still another one to do. Keep pressing ahead. It is a real WOW! when it really looks like an airplane - even though there is a bunch to go. As you have undoubtedly discovered, the builders manual is the weak point. We discovered several inconsistencies. The door sills / gear mount cannot be built as MAM specifies. Read everything carefully and understand the intent and be wary of pitfalls. This will save drilling rivets that MAM should have alerted us to leave clecoed. Having said that, there is no other plane on the market that I would buy in preference to the Elite.
Ralph Baker
----- Original Message -----
From: David Ricker
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: Wing Pro Sealing

Ralph
I have pondered the discussion around this and was wondering if you (or any of our group) had any thoughts on drilling a couple of holes, maybe 3/16" or so in the veritcal web of the J section a bit outboard of the root end near where the proseal will be so the fuel/water etc can pass through. I suspect it would not be a big reduction in structural integrity there, what do you think?

Dave

Ralph Baker wrote:

David,When you ProSeal the wings be sure not to put so much material between the stringer in the tank and the root rib as to build a dam which will trap water or fuel that cannot be drained by the wing sump. This is especially easy in the wing with the flange turned out.Ralph Baker
--
David A. Ricker P. Eng.
Fall River, Nova Scotia
Canada

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:34 pm**

I specifically asked Brian at Murphy about this two months ago. He told me
it was ok to drill a series of holes in the stringers at their inboard ends.
He said others who were concerned were already doing that. I have since
noted the gap between the end of my stringers and the end rib (at least on
the right wing) and am currently planning on going with just that. But,
wow, I can't wait to finish that first wing.......

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:34 pm**

Hi Ralph
Thanks for the tip on the stringers. I think we may go with the drilled stringer like was also mentioned by "goody" since it still leaves some stringer to rivet to and we have already done the drilling for the rivets.
Good to hear you are making such good progress with your project. I believe what you say about the wings, we have been at the first one for a fair while and as you can see we have just reached the sealing part. Nice to hear it goes better after that.
Thanks also for the heads up on the door sills & gear mount, I hope MAM picks up the ball on this and revises the manual on that before we get there.
Well, gotta back at it, we too can't wait to be flying and enjoy the fruits of our labors!
Cheers,
Dave
Ralph Baker wrote:

Dave,The further out you put the liquid passage the less complete the sumping. I would just cut the bottom stringer back from the root rib. The tank skins are far thicker than the basic wing skin and I can't imagine that a 1/2" would compromise strength. As a note, we are now ready to put ours on the gear and the wings were the "low point". There is just so much work in them and when you get one done there is still another one to do. Keep pressing ahead. It is a real WOW! when it really looks like an airplane - even though there is a bunch to go. As you have undoubtedly discovered, the builders manual is the weak point. We discovered several inconsistencies. The door sills / gear mount cannot be built as MAM specifies. Read everything carefully and understand the intent and be wary of pitfalls. This will save drilling rivets that MAM should have alerted us to leave clecoed. Having said that, there is no other plane on the market that I would buy in preference to the Elite.Ralph Baker
----- Original Message -----
From: David Ricker (ricker@dbis.ns.ca)
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: Wing Pro Sealing
Ralph
I have pondered the discussion around this and was wondering if you (or any of our group) had any thoughts on drilling a couple of holes, maybe 3/16" or so in the veritcal web of the J section a bit outboard of the root end near where the proseal will be so the fuel/water etc can pass through. I suspect it would not be a big reduction in structural integrity there, what do you think?
Dave
Ralph Baker wrote:
David,When you ProSeal the wings be sure not to put so much material between the stringer in the tank and the root rib as to build a dam which will trap water or fuel that cannot be drained by the wing sump. This is especially easy in the wing with the flange turned out.Ralph Baker
--
David A. Ricker P. Eng.
Fall River, Nova Scotia
Canada