Electric cable installation Tail, battery

[Mike Davis]

Received: from fwd02.btx.dtag.de (fwd02.btx.dtag.de [194.25.2.162])
by mailout08.btx.dtag.de with smtp
id 0zoEYt-00084e-00; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 23:27:55 +0100
Received: (068612707-0001(btxid)@[62.157.55.153])
by fwd02.btx.dtag.de
id <m0zoEYg-0004tcC>; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 23:27:42 +0100
Message-Id: <m0zoEYg-0004tcC@fwd02.btx.dtag.de>
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 23:27:42 +0100
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Electric cable installation Tail, battery
X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.2
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT
X-Sender: 068612707-0001@t-online.de
From: Johannes.Laubenthal@t-online.de (Johannes Laubenthal)

Hi folks!
I am finishing my fuselage. Do you think it better to install a cable
channel
(electric house installation material) for PLUS and MINUS cable for the
Battery
and electric trimm servo or drilling the bulkheads and grommets (drill
diameter
max.1/2 inch in neutral bulkhead zone) and under floor installation??
I will install an O-320. The battery has to be in the back cone section ?
Is there room enough to install the cable channel between the seats?
Right seat and side wall? Other solutions?
Johannes Laubenthal R 603 Saarland Germany




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Mike Davis]

Received: from nidlink.com (pm9-34.nidlink.com [206.96.73.89])
by enaila.nidlink.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA05623
for <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 17:47:39 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <36707B50.451E0EA4@nidlink.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 17:54:25 -0800
From: subersys <subersys@nidlink.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: " (Murphy Rebel)" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Electric cable installation Tail, battery
References: <m0zoEYg-0004tcC@fwd02.btx.dtag.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I used plastic conduit. I would use aluminum tubing to do over. Should
only need
positive cable as skin can act as ground. Works fine for me. I used
conduit for
the purpose of maintanence. Grommets allow no removal and replace 10 years
down
the road. Also adding new antenna's and such make for ease of installation.
I ran
one for power and one for signal. Keeps the static at a minimum.

Dave BAngle

Johannes Laubenthal wrote:

Hi folks!
I am finishing my fuselage. Do you think it better to install a cable

channel

(electric house installation material) for PLUS and MINUS cable for the

Battery

and electric trimm servo or drilling the bulkheads and grommets (drill

diameter

max.1/2 inch in neutral bulkhead zone) and under floor installation??
I will install an O-320. The battery has to be in the back cone section ?
Is there room enough to install the cable channel between the seats?
Right seat and side wall? Other solutions?
Johannes Laubenthal R 603 Saarland Germany

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Mike Davis]

Received: from [137.186.224.199] (helo=ms01-199.tor.istar.ca)
by mail2.toronto.istar.net with smtp (Exim 1.92 #2)
for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
id 0zoIxv-0007WI-00; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 22:10:04 -0500
X-Sender: crs1188@inforamp.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com> (Murphy Rebel)
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
Subject: Re: Electric cable installation Tail, battery
Message-Id: <E0zoIxv-0007WI-00@mail2.toronto.istar.net>
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 22:10:04 -0500


Hi, Johannes

Most of the builders here are using 1/2" or smaller flexible plastic
tubing in the wings, for the nav. & landing lights. This makes for easy
replacement/rewiring later. The tubing still runs through, and is
tie-wrapped to, grommets, so it doesn't move around, but the wire
can move freely inside. The advantages of plastic tube over metal -
it won't short circuit if wires chafe on it, and it is flexible, so
easy to install.

This type of tubing could be used to go to the tail, as well, for
trim and tail lights. It might be easiest to run it along the side of
the fuselage, above the floor, just for convenience later. (It's hard
to get under the floor !!)

If possible, try to mount the battery just behind the 'curtain'
bulkhead, behind the baggage area. There are 'slim' batteries available
that will fit on the fuse side, on the ledge between bulheads. You could
fabricate a battery box from Lexan (light, and you can SEE the liquid
levels, and it's easier to work than aluminum). The reason for mounting
the battery on the right side is to leave the middle free for sleeping
area !! The cable can run from the battery forward along the right
side, under a channel beside the right seat, under the door. The battery
ground can be fastened to the nearest bulkhead. (MAM recommendation)
That's how mine is set up. (The channel could also be fabricated out
of 1/8", 1/16", or 1/32" Lexan...)

You are right to plan on 2 wires for lights, motors, etc.! Using
the airframe as the other side may give intermittent connections, and
encourage galvanic corrosion, as well as increased radio noise..

.....bobp

---------------------------------orig.------------------------------
At 11:27 PM 12/10/98 +0100, you wrote:

Hi folks!
I am finishing my fuselage. Do you think it better to install a cable

channel

(electric house installation material) for PLUS and MINUS cable for the

Battery

and electric trimm servo or drilling the bulkheads and grommets (drill

diameter

max.1/2 inch in neutral bulkhead zone) and under floor installation??
I will install an O-320. The battery has to be in the back cone section ?
Is there room enough to install the cable channel between the seats?
Right seat and side wall? Other solutions?
Johannes Laubenthal R 603 Saarland Germany

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Mike Davis]

Received: from dialup.voyager.co.nz (ts1p08.net.ashburton.voyager.co.nz
[203.21.25.172]) by host02.net.voyager.co.nz (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id
TAA26658 for <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 19:18:47 +1300
(NZDT)
Message-Id: <199812110618.TAA26658@host02.net.voyager.co.nz>
From: "Alister Yeoman" <yeoman@voyager.co.nz>
To: "Murphy Rebel" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Electric cable installation Tail, battery
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 19:19:11 +1300
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Priority: 3
X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi There,

Just thought you may be interested, I am up and running with my 0-320 Rebel
with the firewall cut back 3", I placed my battery just in front of the
elevator rollers in the rear of the fuse, C of G is good ( 10") and there
is still plenty of room to throw in the sleeping bag!


Alister Yeoman

----------

From: Johannes Laubenthal <Johannes.Laubenthal@t-online.de>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Electric cable installation Tail, battery
Date: Friday, December 11, 1998 11:27 AM

Hi folks!
I am finishing my fuselage. Do you think it better to install a cable

channel

(electric house installation material) for PLUS and MINUS cable for the

Battery

and electric trimm servo or drilling the bulkheads and grommets (drill

diameter

max.1/2 inch in neutral bulkhead zone) and under floor installation??
I will install an O-320. The battery has to be in the back cone section ?
Is there room enough to install the cable channel between the seats?
Right seat and side wall? Other solutions?
Johannes Laubenthal R 603 Saarland Germany

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Mike Davis]

Received: from [205.163.8.199] (drk.cts.com [205.163.8.199]) by mh2.cts.com
(8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA24466 for <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>; Thu, 10
Dec 1998 22:28:39 -0800 (PST)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 22:28:39 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: drk@crash.cts.com
Message-Id: <v04003a03b295fb1431ce@[205.163.8.199]>
In-Reply-To: <199812110618.TAA26658@host02.net.voyager.co.nz>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com> (Murphy Rebel)
From: Dave Klimas <drk@cts.com>
Subject: Re: Electric cable installation Tail, battery

Alister,

How heavy is your battery?

Dave & Bert Klimas
Rebel #472
Ramona, CA
EAA Chapter 14

Hi There,

Just thought you may be interested, I am up and running with my 0-320 Rebel
with the firewall cut back 3", I placed my battery just in front of the
elevator rollers in the rear of the fuse, C of G is good ( 10") and there
is still plenty of room to throw in the sleeping bag!


Alister Yeoman

----------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Mike Davis]

Received: from RebelAir@aol.com
by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id AHDYa22777
for <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 00:47:05 -0500 (EST)
From: RebelAir@aol.com
Message-ID: <e6438632.36720359@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 00:47:05 EST
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Subject: Re: Electric cable installation Tail, battery
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 19

Hello There

I would not recommend drilling thru all the bulkheads from the tailcone up
to
the firewall area. It is a simple manner to bring the cables along side the
elevator cable cover. You can build a simple cover for it if you like.
This
is a natural place to bring all the power and antennae wires from the dash
to
the back. The only other option is up the door post which is ugly.

Do not recommend compromising the structure by putting a lot of holes in it.
Also, beneath the floor, you are in trouble if any maintenance is required.

Brian



-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Mike Davis]

Received: from RebelAir@aol.com
by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id FUZRa17651
for <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 00:56:16 -0500 (EST)
From: RebelAir@aol.com
Message-ID: <10d3ca40.36720580@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 00:56:16 EST
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Subject: Re: Electric cable installation Tail, battery
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 19

Hi There

My electrical guru does not approve of using the aircraft as ground. When
you
think about it, it does not make much sense what we are doing. On one hand,
we are using zinc epoxy chromate to prevent an electrical connection between
two different metal parts - galvanic corrosion is simply electrical flow
between two parts one being sacrificed to the other, and, then on the other
hand, we want to induce a high flow of electrical flow particularily during
start up to go thru a large portion of your airframe from firewall to
tailcone.

We can get away with it for a while without noticeable damage, but what will
it look like down the road? Are we willing to take chances with our labours
of love?

Just food for thought.

Brian #328R



-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Mike Davis]

Received: from RebelAir@aol.com
by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id XPFEa20890
for <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 01:00:31 -0500 (EST)
From: RebelAir@aol.com
Message-ID: <4ffca58.3672067f@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 01:00:31 EST
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Subject: Re: Electric cable installation Tail, battery
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 19

Hi There

That is exactly where I put mine as well Alister and I also have an 0320.
Have not gotten to the weight and balance issue yet.

Brian #328R

[Mike Davis]

Received: from the-benson-s (209-122-252-75.s329.tnt1.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com
[209.122.252.75])
by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA14767
for <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:09:07 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <003401be38ff$dfa37500$4bfc7ad1@the-benson-s>
From: "Lonnie Benson" <lonben@erols.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Electric cable installation Tail, battery
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:05:20 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0

Brian:

Could you ask your electrical guru if he knows of any studies, tests,
experiences, etc that are the basis for his concern about using the aircraft
frame as a ground. I have a degree in Electrical Engineering, and at one
time in my career was the head of the office responsible for the maintenance
of all of the Air Force equipment used on the Western Test Range. The Range
extended from the coast of California to the middle of the Indian Ocean.
One of my major concerns at that time was corrosion control for aircraft,
ships, vehicles and electronic equipment used on the Range. I had a
Chemical Engineer working for me that spent all his time working on
corrosion control problems. At that time we did not recognize "grounding"
as a problem. During the last ten years of my career I spent most of my
time working on fiber optic systems, so I was more interested in photons
than electrons. Therefore, I would be very interested in finding more info
on this problem, if it is a problem.

I forwarded your message to Bob Nuckolls (nuckolls@aeroelectric.com) and
asked for his comments. He replied:

"Production aircraft have been using airframe grounds since the first
batteries, starters and generators were bolted on. . . even today,
airplanes like the Lear, Beechjet and Hawker use airframe ground for LOTS of
stuff . . . some of it VERY heavy current.

A few years ago, there was a story circulating around about the hazards of
airframe grounds that cited empanages falling off of Pipers due to
electrically induced corrosion. Never could identify the source or deduce
any explanation based on the physics of the matter.

There ARE cautions about heavy current grounds . . . you don't want to carry
cranking currents in thin sheet metal used for a battery ground . . . but
the hazard is local and limited to the undersized material. Single point
grounding behind the panel is equally important to control noise and the
potential for degraded instrument performance. It's also important NOT to
use the engine mount for any electrical duties. . . ground the crankcase to
the firewall witha nice flexible bond strap."

As you can see, we now have two Guru's with two different opinions!

To provide more food for thought I suggest that members of the List read the
article titled "New Battery Technology" on page 14 of the January 1999 issue
of Sport Pilot & Ultralights. The article states that Advanced Technology
Products (ATP) was at Oshkosh demonstrating a 1.6 pound, 12-volt
rechargeable battery that could be used to start typical aircraft engines.
Maybe, builders using O-320's could mount one of these on the firewall and
have a short #2 wire to the starter. If more amp-hours are needed for
operating essential equipment in case of an alternator failure, than a
larger amp-hour battery could be mounted in the tailcone and connected to
the electrical system with a wire much smaller than the #2 now used.

-----Original Message-----
From: RebelAir@aol.com <RebelAir@aol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Saturday, December 12, 1998 12:56 AM
Subject: Re: Electric cable installation Tail, battery

Hi There

My electrical guru does not approve of using the aircraft as ground. When

you

think about it, it does not make much sense what we are doing. On one

hand,

we are using zinc epoxy chromate to prevent an electrical connection

between

two different metal parts - galvanic corrosion is simply electrical flow
between two parts one being sacrificed to the other, and, then on the other
hand, we want to induce a high flow of electrical flow particularily during
start up to go thru a large portion of your airframe from firewall to
tailcone.

We can get away with it for a while without noticeable damage, but what

will

it look like down the road? Are we willing to take chances with our

labours

of love?

Just food for thought.

Brian #328R

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------