The Murphy Builders Site

Hi Don !

Even Cessna had problems with a bottom vent ! So did my
old Aeronca Sedan - I once camped overnight, after filling up,
parked on a slight slope - woke up to find myself missing over
$90 worth of fuel, and a huge area of dead grass !!! :-(
(Good thing nobody smoked !)

You could just go with 1/4" or 3/8" ID tubing fastened to
the gas caps - either in an inverted L shape, or a J, if you're worried
about water. I've flown the J's for over 10 years, even flying in
heavy rain, with no problems. I've been flying the L's for 3 years
now - again, no problems. This is SIMPLE and SAFE - and there's
NO chance of developing a siphon ! You DO have to put a bit of
window screen into the end of the tube, to keep the bugs out -
you can solder or glue it in.
.....bobp

-----------------------------------orig.---------------------------------
At 01:11 AM 10/13/02 -0400, you wrote:

Hi All,

Mike Davis writes

As for the fuel vent, I really like the way MAM has the demonstrator set up
now. They simply drilled a hole in the outboard/forward corner of the tank
(right behind the main spar), put a fitting in it, and screwed a L shaped

tube

into it facing forward for ram air. Very simple, no plumbing to worry about,
and if it gets bent or damaged, very easy to fix.

Mike I need some clarification.

From your description I conclude that the whole is drilled into the TOP SKIN
of the tank. Is this correct?

Outboard/forward corner would put it near the area of the filler neck?

How is it that rain is kept from being a concern with such a L shaped ram
air tube?

ANOTHER APPROACH FOR CONSIDERATION ..

Install a fitting in the bottom skin of the tank, again at the
outboard/forward corner just behind the spar. Install a stand pipe into the
fitting that would reach to the top outboard/forward corner of the tank. The
bottom of the stand pipe would protrude from the fitting and provide ram
air.

Pre-flighting a vent tube protruding from the bottom of the wing is much
easier than one on the top of the wing. This would be especially true for a
Moose on amphibs.

OPINIONS PLEASE



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Hi Bob,

Forgot about the siphon possibility. Thanks for the reminder. Looks like we
go on top.

Thanks,
Don

Even Cessna had problems with a bottom vent ! So did my
old Aeronca Sedan - I once camped overnight, after filling up,
parked on a slight slope - woke up to find myself missing over
$90 worth of fuel, and a huge area of dead grass !!! :-(
You could just go with 1/4" or 3/8" ID tubing fastened to
the gas caps - either in an inverted L shape, or a J, if you're worried
about water. I've flown the J's for over 10 years, even flying in
heavy rain, with no problems. I've been flying the L's for 3 years
now - again, no problems. This is SIMPLE and SAFE - and there's
NO chance of developing a siphon !

-----------------------------------orig.---------------------------------
At 01:11 AM 10/13/02 -0400, you wrote:

Hi All,

Mike Davis writes

As for the fuel vent, I really like the way MAM has the demonstrator set up
now. They simply drilled a hole in the outboard/forward corner of the tank
(right behind the main spar), put a fitting in it, and screwed a L shaped

tube

into it facing forward for ram air. Very simple, no plumbing to worry
about,
and if it gets bent or damaged, very easy to fix.

Mike I need some clarification.

From your description I conclude that the whole is drilled into the TOP SKIN
of the tank. Is this correct?

Outboard/forward corner would put it near the area of the filler neck?

How is it that rain is kept from being a concern with such a L shaped ram
air tube?

ANOTHER APPROACH FOR CONSIDERATION ..

Install a fitting in the bottom skin of the tank, again at the
outboard/forward corner just behind the spar. Install a stand pipe into the
fitting that would reach to the top outboard/forward corner of the tank. The
bottom of the stand pipe would protrude from the fitting and provide ram
air.

Pre-flighting a vent tube protruding from the bottom of the wing is much
easier than one on the top of the wing. This would be especially true for a
Moose on amphibs.

OPINIONS PLEASE



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Hi All,

Mike Davis writes

As for the fuel vent, I really like the way MAM has the demonstrator set up
now. They simply drilled a hole in the outboard/forward corner of the tank
(right behind the main spar), put a fitting in it, and screwed a L shaped tube
into it facing forward for ram air. Very simple, no plumbing to worry about,
and if it gets bent or damaged, very easy to fix.

Mike I need some clarification.

From your description I conclude that the whole is drilled into the TOP SKIN
of the tank. Is this correct?

Outboard/forward corner would put it near the area of the filler neck?

How is it that rain is kept from being a concern with such a L shaped ram
air tube?

ANOTHER APPROACH FOR CONSIDERATION ..

Install a fitting in the bottom skin of the tank, again at the
outboard/forward corner just behind the spar. Install a stand pipe into the
fitting that would reach to the top outboard/forward corner of the tank. The
bottom of the stand pipe would protrude from the fitting and provide ram
air.

Pre-flighting a vent tube protruding from the bottom of the wing is much
easier than one on the top of the wing. This would be especially true for a
Moose on amphibs.

OPINIONS PLEASE





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If course if you have a flat tire or fly with a sideslip you are going
to lose a lot of fuel that way. I think some have tried routing the
standpipe to the inboard forward corner of the tank. That way you mostly
only lose slugs of fuel equal to the volume of the standpipe although
some syphoning is also possible.

I am hoping that a an inverted J tube on top of the wing that goes up
and them slopes down towards the opening will eliminate the rain
concern.

Ken

Don Boardman wrote:

snip
ANOTHER APPROACH FOR CONSIDERATION ..

Install a fitting in the bottom skin of the tank, again at the
outboard/forward corner just behind the spar. Install a stand pipe into the
fitting that would reach to the top outboard/forward corner of the tank. The
bottom of the stand pipe would protrude from the fitting and provide ram
air.

Pre-flighting a vent tube protruding from the bottom of the wing is much
easier than one on the top of the wing. This would be especially true for a
Moose on amphibs.

OPINIONS PLEASE

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Hi Don,

Yes, the tube is just outboard of the filler cap, right in the corner of the
tank. Robin told me they had one problem of someone holding onto it while
filling the tank and bent the tube... he just loosened the lock nut, screwed
the tube out of the fitting in the skin and screwed a new one in. 15
minutes to fix the whole thing.

Looks like your other questions pretty well addressed already... I don't see
that using an inverted J would hurt, but seems that many people have
reported using the inverted L with no problems, and the L will give you a
little ram air pressure.

Mike
195SR

----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Boardman" <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 9:11 PM
Subject: Venting Moose Tanks

Hi All,

Mike Davis writes

As for the fuel vent, I really like the way MAM has the demonstrator set

up

now. They simply drilled a hole in the outboard/forward corner of the

tank

(right behind the main spar), put a fitting in it, and screwed a L

shaped tube

into it facing forward for ram air. Very simple, no plumbing to worry

about,

and if it gets bent or damaged, very easy to fix.

Mike I need some clarification.

From your description I conclude that the whole is drilled into the TOP

SKIN

of the tank. Is this correct?

Outboard/forward corner would put it near the area of the filler neck?

How is it that rain is kept from being a concern with such a L shaped ram
air tube?

ANOTHER APPROACH FOR CONSIDERATION ..

Install a fitting in the bottom skin of the tank, again at the
outboard/forward corner just behind the spar. Install a stand pipe into

the

fitting that would reach to the top outboard/forward corner of the tank.

The

bottom of the stand pipe would protrude from the fitting and provide ram
air.

Pre-flighting a vent tube protruding from the bottom of the wing is much
easier than one on the top of the wing. This would be especially true for

a

Moose on amphibs.

OPINIONS PLEASE

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The straight "L" has been okay on Howard's, sitting outside on his airlift
beside the dock for 5 summers, and he has never found any water in his fuel
that I know of. I know for sure that the engine has never
quit...........!!!!

If you are concerned with L's, because the aircraft is sitting as a
taildragger, and you think rain drops might bounce up inside and run down
into the tank, form the ram air tubes as J's. Then cut the open end on a 45*
angle so it still has ram air effect, but rain can't run inside the tube as
it would have to go upwards first.

I have an ala'Cessna vent under one of my wings, behind the wing strut in
the high pressure area. The required anti-siphon loop (to not have to use
one of those leaky Cessna flapper valves) and internal tube with holes tight
to the tank lid was more work than I would suggest to be worth it to anyone
following this "thread". Can also cost some fuel if parked full on a heavy
slant.

I think the best ram air vent is the way I have been doing most of them
since building my own. That is to put an L or J tube between the cabin and
the wing, tee'd into the tank cross vent line. Make the tube about 5 inches
or so high above the fairing and use sealing caps on the tanks. This way
even if you park on a hill wing down (like the Super Cubs II video with the
Cole family) you won't loose any fuel as the vent tube should still be
higher than your uphill wing tank. If you put it on the outboard corner of
the wing tank you may very well have fuel pouring out of it if you are
flying/parking to these extremes (mind you your not likely to have full
tanks if screwing around like this either). I know some guys have put them
right on the caps themselves (like Bob P's where there was no other choice
due to the original builders plumbing system) as they were concerned about
having a double vent source for safety. Good idea, but if this is your
concern you could also put one in each wing to fuselage fairing for the same
safety purpose and they wouldn't interfere with wing covers. The weird thing
with bothering to do double redundancey is that when the insects get into
the season for laying larvae, the usually get every hole on the aircraft,
including the small hole in the tank drains. My buddy Bruce, from the strip
next door to me, had his engine quite a couple weeks ago on his Northstar at
about 200 feet. Thank god he was on floats, stuck the nose down and just
re-landed in Midland harbour. Both vent tubes on his caps were plugged, with
the nice grey cement like material that the insects fill the tubes with.
This had happened in the 2 days since he had previously flown!! I know, he
obviously didn't do a very good preflight, but I know once most guys get on
floats, less and less gets checked at the dock with the assumption things
are the way they parked it.......as I have cleaned this insect crap out of
Howard's quick drains a few times when he has left his plane here when going
away for extended periods of time (maybe it's the fear of spilling fuel in
the lake, I don't know!!). Try to keep your screen insert very close to the
end of the tube so the insects don't have room to do this and keep the tubes
diameter up at 3/8", as they seem to prefer plugging up the sizes of tube
below this. I have hundreds of lengths of tubing in a 40' storage trailer to
prove this. They did all the small 3/16 and 1/4 tubes first, worked their
way up to the 5/16ths and now 3 years later have started on the lengths of
3/8" stainless tube. All the tubing is on the same 5' high rack, on one side
of my storage trailer.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Davis" <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 12:04 AM
Subject: Re: Venting Moose Tanks

Hi Don,

Yes, the tube is just outboard of the filler cap, right in the corner of

the

tank. Robin told me they had one problem of someone holding onto it while
filling the tank and bent the tube... he just loosened the lock nut,

screwed

the tube out of the fitting in the skin and screwed a new one in. 15
minutes to fix the whole thing.

Looks like your other questions pretty well addressed already... I don't

see

that using an inverted J would hurt, but seems that many people have
reported using the inverted L with no problems, and the L will give you a
little ram air pressure.

Mike
195SR

----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Boardman" <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 9:11 PM
Subject: Venting Moose Tanks

Hi All,

Mike Davis writes

As for the fuel vent, I really like the way MAM has the demonstrator

set

up

now. They simply drilled a hole in the outboard/forward corner of the

tank

(right behind the main spar), put a fitting in it, and screwed a L

shaped tube

into it facing forward for ram air. Very simple, no plumbing to worry

about,

and if it gets bent or damaged, very easy to fix.

Mike I need some clarification.

From your description I conclude that the whole is drilled into the TOP

SKIN

of the tank. Is this correct?

Outboard/forward corner would put it near the area of the filler neck?

How is it that rain is kept from being a concern with such a L shaped

ram

air tube?

ANOTHER APPROACH FOR CONSIDERATION ..

Install a fitting in the bottom skin of the tank, again at the
outboard/forward corner just behind the spar. Install a stand pipe into

the

fitting that would reach to the top outboard/forward corner of the tank.

The

bottom of the stand pipe would protrude from the fitting and provide ram
air.

Pre-flighting a vent tube protruding from the bottom of the wing is much
easier than one on the top of the wing. This would be especially true

for

a

Moose on amphibs.

OPINIONS PLEASE

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I like the idea of placing the vents in the wing to
fuselage fairing. I assume it has to be 5" or so high
because of the dihedral of the wing causing a 'head'
pressure on the fuel?

-Jason



--- "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca> wrote:

The straight "L" has been okay on Howard's, sitting
outside on his airlift
beside the dock for 5 summers, and he has never
found any water in his fuel
that I know of. I know for sure that the engine has
never
quit...........!!!!

If you are concerned with L's, because the aircraft
is sitting as a
taildragger, and you think rain drops might bounce
up inside and run down
into the tank, form the ram air tubes as J's. Then
cut the open end on a 45*
angle so it still has ram air effect, but rain can't
run inside the tube as
it would have to go upwards first.

I have an ala'Cessna vent under one of my wings,
behind the wing strut in
the high pressure area. The required anti-siphon
loop (to not have to use
one of those leaky Cessna flapper valves) and
internal tube with holes tight
to the tank lid was more work than I would suggest
to be worth it to anyone
following this "thread". Can also cost some fuel if
parked full on a heavy
slant.

I think the best ram air vent is the way I have been
doing most of them
since building my own. That is to put an L or J tube
between the cabin and
the wing, tee'd into the tank cross vent line. Make
the tube about 5 inches
or so high above the fairing and use sealing caps on
the tanks. This way
even if you park on a hill wing down (like the Super
Cubs II video with the
Cole family) you won't loose any fuel as the vent
tube should still be
higher than your uphill wing tank. If you put it on
the outboard corner of
the wing tank you may very well have fuel pouring
out of it if you are
flying/parking to these extremes (mind you your not
likely to have full
tanks if screwing around like this either). I know
some guys have put them
right on the caps themselves (like Bob P's where
there was no other choice
due to the original builders plumbing system) as
they were concerned about
having a double vent source for safety. Good idea,
but if this is your
concern you could also put one in each wing to
fuselage fairing for the same
safety purpose and they wouldn't interfere with wing
covers. The weird thing
with bothering to do double redundancey is that when
the insects get into
the season for laying larvae, the usually get every
hole on the aircraft,
including the small hole in the tank drains. My
buddy Bruce, from the strip
next door to me, had his engine quite a couple weeks
ago on his Northstar at
about 200 feet. Thank god he was on floats, stuck
the nose down and just
re-landed in Midland harbour. Both vent tubes on his
caps were plugged, with
the nice grey cement like material that the insects
fill the tubes with.
This had happened in the 2 days since he had
previously flown!! I know, he
obviously didn't do a very good preflight, but I
know once most guys get on
floats, less and less gets checked at the dock with
the assumption things
are the way they parked it.......as I have cleaned
this insect crap out of
Howard's quick drains a few times when he has left
his plane here when going
away for extended periods of time (maybe it's the
fear of spilling fuel in
the lake, I don't know!!). Try to keep your screen
insert very close to the
end of the tube so the insects don't have room to do
this and keep the tubes
diameter up at 3/8", as they seem to prefer plugging
up the sizes of tube
below this. I have hundreds of lengths of tubing in
a 40' storage trailer to
prove this. They did all the small 3/16 and 1/4
tubes first, worked their
way up to the 5/16ths and now 3 years later have
started on the lengths of
3/8" stainless tube. All the tubing is on the same
5' high rack, on one side
of my storage trailer.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Davis" <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 12:04 AM
Subject: Re: Venting Moose Tanks

Hi Don,

Yes, the tube is just outboard of the filler cap,

right in the corner of
the

tank. Robin told me they had one problem of

someone holding onto it while

filling the tank and bent the tube... he just

loosened the lock nut,
screwed

the tube out of the fitting in the skin and

screwed a new one in. 15

minutes to fix the whole thing.

Looks like your other questions pretty well

addressed already... I don't
see

that using an inverted J would hurt, but seems

that many people have

reported using the inverted L with no problems,

and the L will give you a

little ram air pressure.

Mike
195SR

----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Boardman" <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 9:11 PM
Subject: Venting Moose Tanks

Hi All,

Mike Davis writes

MAM has the demonstrator
set

up

outboard/forward corner of the

tank

it, and screwed a L

shaped tube

simple, no plumbing to worry

about,

fix.

Mike I need some clarification.

From your description I conclude that the whole

is drilled into the TOP

SKIN

of the tank. Is this correct?

Outboard/forward corner would put it near the

area of the filler neck?

How is it that rain is kept from being a concern

with such a L shaped
ram

air tube?

ANOTHER APPROACH FOR CONSIDERATION ..

Install a fitting in the bottom skin of the

tank, again at the

outboard/forward corner just behind the spar.

Install a stand pipe into

the

fitting that would reach to the top

outboard/forward corner of the tank.

The

bottom of the stand pipe would protrude from the

fitting and provide ram

air.

Pre-flighting a vent tube protruding from the

bottom of the wing is much

easier than one on the top of the wing. This

would be especially true
for

a

Moose on amphibs.

=== message truncated ===


=====
________________________________________________

Jason Beall
Super Rebel No. 131
Aberdeen, Scotland, UK
super_rebel131@yahoo.com

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com



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I'll think you'll find that if you put a string across between both outboard
tank ends that the string will only sit an inch or so above the cabin roof,
depending on the tank size of course, as we are only talking 1* of dihedral.
The 4 to 5" height above the cabin that I suggested is to get the ram air
out in clean air to insure ram effect and to give you a few extra inches of
height if you happen to be parked with one wing higher than the other. If
parked on the same slanted hill, putting the tube at the root fairing would
allow a shorter tube to be used than if it was on the outboard tank corner
before fuel would come out of it.

As stated earlier the big negatives for having them on the wing itself is
interference with wing covers and you are also going to knock them off the
first time you are sweeping 4 inches of snow off the wings. When you get to
the cabin you get a little more careful with the broom because of antennas
etc that are also there.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Beall" <super_rebel131@yahoo.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 7:40 AM
Subject: Re: Venting Moose Tanks

I like the idea of placing the vents in the wing to
fuselage fairing. I assume it has to be 5" or so high
because of the dihedral of the wing causing a 'head'
pressure on the fuel?

-Jason



--- "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca> wrote:

The straight "L" has been okay on Howard's, sitting
outside on his airlift
beside the dock for 5 summers, and he has never
found any water in his fuel
that I know of. I know for sure that the engine has
never
quit...........!!!!

If you are concerned with L's, because the aircraft
is sitting as a
taildragger, and you think rain drops might bounce
up inside and run down
into the tank, form the ram air tubes as J's. Then
cut the open end on a 45*
angle so it still has ram air effect, but rain can't
run inside the tube as
it would have to go upwards first.

I have an ala'Cessna vent under one of my wings,
behind the wing strut in
the high pressure area. The required anti-siphon
loop (to not have to use
one of those leaky Cessna flapper valves) and
internal tube with holes tight
to the tank lid was more work than I would suggest
to be worth it to anyone
following this "thread". Can also cost some fuel if
parked full on a heavy
slant.

I think the best ram air vent is the way I have been
doing most of them
since building my own. That is to put an L or J tube
between the cabin and
the wing, tee'd into the tank cross vent line. Make
the tube about 5 inches
or so high above the fairing and use sealing caps on
the tanks. This way
even if you park on a hill wing down (like the Super
Cubs II video with the
Cole family) you won't loose any fuel as the vent
tube should still be
higher than your uphill wing tank. If you put it on
the outboard corner of
the wing tank you may very well have fuel pouring
out of it if you are
flying/parking to these extremes (mind you your not
likely to have full
tanks if screwing around like this either). I know
some guys have put them
right on the caps themselves (like Bob P's where
there was no other choice
due to the original builders plumbing system) as
they were concerned about
having a double vent source for safety. Good idea,
but if this is your
concern you could also put one in each wing to
fuselage fairing for the same
safety purpose and they wouldn't interfere with wing
covers. The weird thing
with bothering to do double redundancey is that when
the insects get into
the season for laying larvae, the usually get every
hole on the aircraft,
including the small hole in the tank drains. My
buddy Bruce, from the strip
next door to me, had his engine quite a couple weeks
ago on his Northstar at
about 200 feet. Thank god he was on floats, stuck
the nose down and just
re-landed in Midland harbour. Both vent tubes on his
caps were plugged, with
the nice grey cement like material that the insects
fill the tubes with.
This had happened in the 2 days since he had
previously flown!! I know, he
obviously didn't do a very good preflight, but I
know once most guys get on
floats, less and less gets checked at the dock with
the assumption things
are the way they parked it.......as I have cleaned
this insect crap out of
Howard's quick drains a few times when he has left
his plane here when going
away for extended periods of time (maybe it's the
fear of spilling fuel in
the lake, I don't know!!). Try to keep your screen
insert very close to the
end of the tube so the insects don't have room to do
this and keep the tubes
diameter up at 3/8", as they seem to prefer plugging
up the sizes of tube
below this. I have hundreds of lengths of tubing in
a 40' storage trailer to
prove this. They did all the small 3/16 and 1/4
tubes first, worked their
way up to the 5/16ths and now 3 years later have
started on the lengths of
3/8" stainless tube. All the tubing is on the same
5' high rack, on one side
of my storage trailer.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Davis" <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 12:04 AM
Subject: Re: Venting Moose Tanks

Hi Don,

Yes, the tube is just outboard of the filler cap,

right in the corner of
the

tank. Robin told me they had one problem of

someone holding onto it while

filling the tank and bent the tube... he just

loosened the lock nut,
screwed

the tube out of the fitting in the skin and

screwed a new one in. 15

minutes to fix the whole thing.

Looks like your other questions pretty well

addressed already... I don't
see

that using an inverted J would hurt, but seems

that many people have

reported using the inverted L with no problems,

and the L will give you a

little ram air pressure.

Mike
195SR

----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Boardman" <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 9:11 PM
Subject: Venting Moose Tanks

MAM has the demonstrator
set

up

outboard/forward corner of the

tank

it, and screwed a L

shaped tube

simple, no plumbing to worry

about,

fix.

is drilled into the TOP

SKIN

area of the filler neck?

with such a L shaped
ram

tank, again at the

Install a stand pipe into

the

outboard/forward corner of the tank.

The

fitting and provide ram

bottom of the wing is much

would be especially true
for

a

=== message truncated ===


=====
________________________________________________

Jason Beall
Super Rebel No. 131
Aberdeen, Scotland, UK
super_rebel131@yahoo.com

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com

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Hi Mike

Actually the L type will give you significant ram pressure - in the order
of 10" of water at cruise which is more in fuel head.

Brian #328R

At 08:04 PM 10/13/2002 -0800, you wrote:

Hi Don,

Yes, the tube is just outboard of the filler cap, right in the corner of the
tank. Robin told me they had one problem of someone holding onto it while
filling the tank and bent the tube... he just loosened the lock nut, screwed
the tube out of the fitting in the skin and screwed a new one in. 15
minutes to fix the whole thing.

Looks like your other questions pretty well addressed already... I don't see
that using an inverted J would hurt, but seems that many people have
reported using the inverted L with no problems, and the L will give you a
little ram air pressure.

Mike
195SR

----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Boardman" <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 9:11 PM
Subject: Venting Moose Tanks

Hi All,

Mike Davis writes

As for the fuel vent, I really like the way MAM has the demonstrator set

up

now. They simply drilled a hole in the outboard/forward corner of the

tank

(right behind the main spar), put a fitting in it, and screwed a L

shaped tube

into it facing forward for ram air. Very simple, no plumbing to worry

about,

and if it gets bent or damaged, very easy to fix.

Mike I need some clarification.

From your description I conclude that the whole is drilled into the TOP

SKIN

of the tank. Is this correct?

Outboard/forward corner would put it near the area of the filler neck?

How is it that rain is kept from being a concern with such a L shaped ram
air tube?

ANOTHER APPROACH FOR CONSIDERATION ..

Install a fitting in the bottom skin of the tank, again at the
outboard/forward corner just behind the spar. Install a stand pipe into

the

fitting that would reach to the top outboard/forward corner of the tank.

The

bottom of the stand pipe would protrude from the fitting and provide ram
air.

Pre-flighting a vent tube protruding from the bottom of the wing is much
easier than one on the top of the wing. This would be especially true for

a

Moose on amphibs.

OPINIONS PLEASE

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Wayne, with full tanks on a hot day do you ever get fuel coming out of the
vent and going down between the wing? I always thought it was good to have a
vent out in the "high" point out of the tank so vapor could get out before
pushing out fuel, but I really like the idea of just going with the T off of
the crossover/sight gauge line as you are doing.

Scott





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Have never seen it with Howard's and his tube is about 5" high. The original
"necked" caps on the Rebel are vented though with a very small hole in the
cap so not an issue for fume build up. Could be an issue though if using the
flush non-vented caps, but I wouldn't think it would push the fuel out a 5"
head height.

Also I NEVER fill the tanks to the brim unless I am departing immediately. I
did so this morning and had to carefully place the plane before start up to
get the fuel to quit running down my wing from the cap vent. Had to fly past
Ottawa to trial fit Ron Hamson's wheel skis that I am building and then back
again. With the weather the way it's been lately I didn't want to have to
plan for a fuel stop. 2 hr - 24 min each way and I had 8 gallons left when I
got home from my 44 gallon take off. Not bad 7.8US/hr from a 150 HP wound up
at 2500RPM with the mixture pulled out as far as I dared to lean.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "S & L Aldrich" <flynski@peoplepc.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 6:41 PM
Subject: RE: Venting Moose Tanks

Wayne, with full tanks on a hot day do you ever get fuel coming out of the
vent and going down between the wing? I always thought it was good to have

a

vent out in the "high" point out of the tank so vapor could get out before
pushing out fuel, but I really like the idea of just going with the T off

of

the crossover/sight gauge line as you are doing.

Scott

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Hi Scott
For that reason (and to prevent any possibility of high wing fuel
draining to the low wing) my crossvent has a quarter inch tube inside
the tank with the opening at the top outboard forward corner of the tank.
Ken

S & L Aldrich wrote:

Wayne, with full tanks on a hot day do you ever get fuel coming out of the
vent and going down between the wing? I always thought it was good to have a
vent out in the "high" point out of the tank so vapor could get out before
pushing out fuel, but I really like the idea of just going with the T off of
the crossover/sight gauge line as you are doing.

Scott

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Now there's the best idea I've heard all week!!!!


----- Original Message -----
From: "klehman" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 10:28 PM
Subject: Re: Venting Moose Tanks

Hi Scott
For that reason (and to prevent any possibility of high wing fuel
draining to the low wing) my crossvent has a quarter inch tube inside
the tank with the opening at the top outboard forward corner of the tank.
Ken

S & L Aldrich wrote:

Wayne, with full tanks on a hot day do you ever get fuel coming out of

the

vent and going down between the wing? I always thought it was good to

have a

vent out in the "high" point out of the tank so vapor could get out

before

pushing out fuel, but I really like the idea of just going with the T

off of

the crossover/sight gauge line as you are doing.

Scott

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Ken, I like that idea. I'll have to scratch my head on it awhile to see if I
can make it work. There are a few draw backs to having a fast build.

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
klehman
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 8:28 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Venting Moose Tanks


Hi Scott
For that reason (and to prevent any possibility of high wing fuel
draining to the low wing) my crossvent has a quarter inch tube inside
the tank with the opening at the top outboard forward corner of the tank.
Ken

S & L Aldrich wrote:

Wayne, with full tanks on a hot day do you ever get fuel coming out of the
vent and going down between the wing? I always thought it was good to have

a

vent out in the "high" point out of the tank so vapor could get out before
pushing out fuel, but I really like the idea of just going with the T off

of

the crossover/sight gauge line as you are doing.

Scott

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Wayne,

That's a pretty good fuel burn (7.8 GPH) at 2500 RPM. That would place you at greater than 75% power, depending on what altitude you flew at, of course. My 0320 150 HP operation manual says you should be burning 10 GPH at that RPM. Where you leaning your mixture on the lean side of peak?

Bruce 357R

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