The Murphy Builders Site

Hi all
I've scared myself 3 times now having my engine quit when I have low fuel.
The first time I still had 5gal. in each tank but I was flying in very
rough conditions I pumped the throttle and the engine restarted so I
climbed until I was back over the airport and had no problems landing. The
second time I was trying to run the one tank dry so I could change the
sight tube. I forgot to change tanks before starting my desent and when I
pointed the nose down the engine quit with about 3gal remaining. The third
time I had about 5gal in the tank I was using and when I turned from 30deg
one way to 30deg the other the engine quit at fairly low altitude with
nowwhere to land. Luckily it started again quickly.
It's time for me to do something about this problem to my plane. I could
just make sure to carry at least 10gal. of gas in each tank but that

isn't practical so unless someone has a better idea this is what I plan to
do. I'm going to make a header tank for each side and attach it in the

line as high as possible where the line goes down vertically behind the
door. The tank doesn't need to be very big so I think I'll use 2" tubing
about 6" long with machined aluminum ends pro-sealed in place. The tube
will attach vertically to the bulkhead with a line attached top and bottom
and a vent line at the top going up to the overhead cross vent.
Any suggestions, flames, or words of encouragment fire away
Drew Dalgleish
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Drew, for god sakes don't add fuel carrying to your cabin to make it into a
human toaster.

Have you put your airplane into a nose high altitude and checked your fuel
flow again to confirm that you don't have a problem?? I have flown my Rebel
for over 7 years and neither my 100 HP O-235 or 150 HP O-320 have ever
skipped a beat and I have made it home on fumes a few times and fly a very
tight (read 45* bank turn) circuits when I come into my own field.

Are your sight tubes seperated from the main tank outlet. FOKM's was not
when I got it from Bob and when you put as much as ten gallons into each
wing the fuel flow absolutely sucked as it drew air down the site tube into
the fuel flow. 5 gallons or less wouldn't even start to drain, as it was
easier to suck air. With the sight gauge seperated it will drain to the last
gallon. If you are running on BOTH, which you always should be for landing
or taking off, then the high wing tank will always bring gas down to the
gascolator.

Have you pulled the inlet screen on your carb (that most people ignore
during annual) to check if it is partical clogged? Maybe when your tanks are
low there isn't as much head pressure to push fuel past some goo..

Lost my best friend this week, please don't add to the list!

Best regards,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 9:58 PM
Subject: header tanks

Hi all
I've scared myself 3 times now having my engine quit when I have low fuel.
The first time I still had 5gal. in each tank but I was flying in very
rough conditions I pumped the throttle and the engine restarted so I
climbed until I was back over the airport and had no problems landing. The
second time I was trying to run the one tank dry so I could change the
sight tube. I forgot to change tanks before starting my desent and when I
pointed the nose down the engine quit with about 3gal remaining. The third
time I had about 5gal in the tank I was using and when I turned from 30deg
one way to 30deg the other the engine quit at fairly low altitude with
nowwhere to land. Luckily it started again quickly.
It's time for me to do something about this problem to my plane. I could
just make sure to carry at least 10gal. of gas in each tank but that

really

isn't practical so unless someone has a better idea this is what I plan to
do. I'm going to make a header tank for each side and attach it in the

fuel

line as high as possible where the line goes down vertically behind the
door. The tank doesn't need to be very big so I think I'll use 2" tubing
about 6" long with machined aluminum ends pro-sealed in place. The tube
will attach vertically to the bulkhead with a line attached top and bottom
and a vent line at the top going up to the overhead cross vent.
Any suggestions, flames, or words of encouragment fire away
Drew Dalgleish
-----------------------------------------------------

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Thanks Wayne My fuel flow is 25gal/hr. each side. I've checked the

strainers in the tank, the screen in the carb and the gascolator. My vent
is separate from the sight guage. I've flown a tank down to the last drop
several times with no problems. I'm planning to keep the tanks as small as
practical I don't want to become a human torch either but I never thought
about it when I was flying the aeronca champ with 13gal in my lap. Don't
most aerobatic planes have a header tank in the cockpit?
I'm sorry to hear of the loss of your freind. I had a freind die in a
crash less than a year ago. It still hurts to think about him. He was the
brightest star in our neighborhood but somehow he stalled and spun while
frost flying which he had done for countless hours. Fly safe.
Drew

At 10:10 PM 9/29/2002 -0400, you wrote:

Drew, for god sakes don't add fuel carrying to your cabin to make it into

human toaster.

Have you put your airplane into a nose high altitude and checked your

flow again to confirm that you don't have a problem?? I have flown my

for over 7 years and neither my 100 HP O-235 or 150 HP O-320 have ever
skipped a beat and I have made it home on fumes a few times and fly a

tight (read 45* bank turn) circuits when I come into my own field.

Are your sight tubes seperated from the main tank outlet. FOKM's was not
when I got it from Bob and when you put as much as ten gallons into each
wing the fuel flow absolutely sucked as it drew air down the site tube

the fuel flow. 5 gallons or less wouldn't even start to drain, as it was
easier to suck air. With the sight gauge seperated it will drain to the

gallon. If you are running on BOTH, which you always should be for

or taking off, then the high wing tank will always bring gas down to the
gascolator.

Have you pulled the inlet screen on your carb (that most people ignore
during annual) to check if it is partical clogged? Maybe when your tanks

low there isn't as much head pressure to push fuel past some goo..

Lost my best friend this week, please don't add to the list!

Best regards,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 9:58 PM
Subject: header tanks

Hi all
I've scared myself 3 times now having my engine quit when I have low

The first time I still had 5gal. in each tank but I was flying in very
rough conditions I pumped the throttle and the engine restarted so I
climbed until I was back over the airport and had no problems landing.

second time I was trying to run the one tank dry so I could change the
sight tube. I forgot to change tanks before starting my desent and when

pointed the nose down the engine quit with about 3gal remaining. The

time I had about 5gal in the tank I was using and when I turned from

one way to 30deg the other the engine quit at fairly low altitude with
nowwhere to land. Luckily it started again quickly.
It's time for me to do something about this problem to my plane. I

just make sure to carry at least 10gal. of gas in each tank but that

really

isn't practical so unless someone has a better idea this is what I plan

do. I'm going to make a header tank for each side and attach it in the

fuel

line as high as possible where the line goes down vertically behind the
door. The tank doesn't need to be very big so I think I'll use 2"

about 6" long with machined aluminum ends pro-sealed in place. The tube
will attach vertically to the bulkhead with a line attached top and

and a vent line at the top going up to the overhead cross vent.
Any suggestions, flames, or words of encouragment fire away
Drew Dalgleish
-----------------------------------------------------

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Drew, for god sakes don't add fuel carrying to your cabin to make it into a
human toaster.

Have you put your airplane into a nose high altitude and checked your fuel
flow again to confirm that you don't have a problem?? I have flown my Rebel
for over 7 years and neither my 100 HP O-235 or 150 HP O-320 have ever
skipped a beat and I have made it home on fumes a few times and fly a very
tight (read 45* bank turn) circuits when I come into my own field.

Are your sight tubes seperated from the main tank outlet. FOKM's was not
when I got it from Bob and when you put as much as ten gallons into each
wing the fuel flow absolutely sucked as it drew air down the site tube into
the fuel flow. 5 gallons or less wouldn't even start to drain, as it was
easier to suck air. With the sight gauge seperated it will drain to the

gallon. If you are running on BOTH, which you always should be for landing
or taking off, then the high wing tank will always bring gas down to the
gascolator.

Have you pulled the inlet screen on your carb (that most people ignore
during annual) to check if it is partical clogged? Maybe when your tanks

low there isn't as much head pressure to push fuel past some goo..

Lost my best friend this week, please don't add to the list!

Best regards,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 9:58 PM
Subject: header tanks

Hi all
I've scared myself 3 times now having my engine quit when I have low

The first time I still had 5gal. in each tank but I was flying in very
rough conditions I pumped the throttle and the engine restarted so I
climbed until I was back over the airport and had no problems landing.

second time I was trying to run the one tank dry so I could change the
sight tube. I forgot to change tanks before starting my desent and when I
pointed the nose down the engine quit with about 3gal remaining. The

time I had about 5gal in the tank I was using and when I turned from

one way to 30deg the other the engine quit at fairly low altitude with
nowwhere to land. Luckily it started again quickly.
It's time for me to do something about this problem to my plane. I

just make sure to carry at least 10gal. of gas in each tank but that

really

isn't practical so unless someone has a better idea this is what I plan

do. I'm going to make a header tank for each side and attach it in the

fuel

line as high as possible where the line goes down vertically behind the
door. The tank doesn't need to be very big so I think I'll use 2" tubing
about 6" long with machined aluminum ends pro-sealed in place. The tube
will attach vertically to the bulkhead with a line attached top and

and a vent line at the top going up to the overhead cross vent.
Any suggestions, flames, or words of encouragment fire away
Drew Dalgleish
-----------------------------------------------------

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----- Original Message -----
From: Drew Dalgleish (drewjan@cabletv.on.ca)
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 11:58 AM
Subject: header tanks


Hi all
I've scared myself 3 times now having my engine quit when I have low fuel.
The first time I still had 5gal. in each tank but I was flying in very
rough conditions I pumped the throttle and the engine restarted so I
climbed until I was back over the airport and had no problems landing. The
second time I was trying to run the one tank dry so I could change the
sight tube. I forgot to change tanks before starting my desent and when I
pointed the nose down the engine quit with about 3gal remaining. The third
time I had about 5gal in the tank I was using and when I turned from 30deg
one way to 30deg the other the engine quit at fairly low altitude with
nowwhere to land. Luckily it started again quickly.
It's time for me to do something about this problem to my plane. I could
just make sure to carry at least 10gal. of gas in each tank but that really
isn't practical so unless someone has a better idea this is what I plan to
do. I'm going to make a header tank for each side and attach it in the fuel
line as high as possible where the line goes down vertically behind the
door. The tank doesn't need to be very big so I think I'll use 2" tubing
about 6" long with machined aluminum ends pro-sealed in place. The tube
will attach vertically to the bulkhead with a line attached top and bottom
and a vent line at the top going up to the overhead cross vent.
Any suggestions, flames, or words of encouragment fire away
Drew Dalgleish
-----------------------------------------------------



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G'day Everyone !

I just moved my sight tubes at the bottom to common with the outlets ... to make a

I have good, forced / positive pressure vents on both tanks, and at the TEE piece

I can't see any other "easy way" to get the readings I want ...... any ideas or comments

Rick & Wendy Harper
541R

Drew, do you use external vent tubes? I have them on my fuel caps with
flared openings into the wind stream. I have a Flowscan transducer in my
line after the gascolator that takes .5 PSI to operate, so want to be sure
there is always sufficient positive pressure in my tanks. They are vented to
each other through the cabin as well. So far I have never had a problem, but
also have never run them below about 4 gals per tank.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Drew Dalgleish
Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 7:54 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: header tanks


Thanks Wayne My fuel flow is 25gal/hr. each side. I've checked the finger
strainers in the tank, the screen in the carb and the gascolator. My vent
is separate from the sight guage. I've flown a tank down to the last drop
several times with no problems. I'm planning to keep the tanks as small as
practical I don't want to become a human torch either but I never thought
about it when I was flying the aeronca champ with 13gal in my lap. Don't
most aerobatic planes have a header tank in the cockpit?
I'm sorry to hear of the loss of your freind. I had a freind die in a
crash less than a year ago. It still hurts to think about him. He was the
brightest star in our neighborhood but somehow he stalled and spun while
frost flying which he had done for countless hours. Fly safe.
Drew

At 10:10 PM 9/29/2002 -0400, you wrote:

Drew, for god sakes don't add fuel carrying to your cabin to make it into a
human toaster.

Have you put your airplane into a nose high altitude and checked your fuel
flow again to confirm that you don't have a problem?? I have flown my Rebel
for over 7 years and neither my 100 HP O-235 or 150 HP O-320 have ever
skipped a beat and I have made it home on fumes a few times and fly a very
tight (read 45* bank turn) circuits when I come into my own field.

Are your sight tubes seperated from the main tank outlet. FOKM's was not
when I got it from Bob and when you put as much as ten gallons into each
wing the fuel flow absolutely sucked as it drew air down the site tube into
the fuel flow. 5 gallons or less wouldn't even start to drain, as it was
easier to suck air. With the sight gauge seperated it will drain to the

last

gallon. If you are running on BOTH, which you always should be for landing
or taking off, then the high wing tank will always bring gas down to the
gascolator.

Have you pulled the inlet screen on your carb (that most people ignore
during annual) to check if it is partical clogged? Maybe when your tanks

are

low there isn't as much head pressure to push fuel past some goo..

Lost my best friend this week, please don't add to the list!

Best regards,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 9:58 PM
Subject: header tanks

Hi all
I've scared myself 3 times now having my engine quit when I have low

fuel.

The first time I still had 5gal. in each tank but I was flying in very
rough conditions I pumped the throttle and the engine restarted so I
climbed until I was back over the airport and had no problems landing.

The

second time I was trying to run the one tank dry so I could change the
sight tube. I forgot to change tanks before starting my desent and when I
pointed the nose down the engine quit with about 3gal remaining. The

third

time I had about 5gal in the tank I was using and when I turned from

30deg

one way to 30deg the other the engine quit at fairly low altitude with
nowwhere to land. Luckily it started again quickly.
It's time for me to do something about this problem to my plane. I

could

just make sure to carry at least 10gal. of gas in each tank but that

really

isn't practical so unless someone has a better idea this is what I plan

to

do. I'm going to make a header tank for each side and attach it in the

fuel

line as high as possible where the line goes down vertically behind the
door. The tank doesn't need to be very big so I think I'll use 2" tubing
about 6" long with machined aluminum ends pro-sealed in place. The tube
will attach vertically to the bulkhead with a line attached top and

bottom

and a vent line at the top going up to the overhead cross vent.
Any suggestions, flames, or words of encouragment fire away
Drew Dalgleish
-----------------------------------------------------

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Walter thanks for that idea. I don't have ram air to my tanks just the
1/8" vent hole at the back of each fuel filler neck. I don't think that is
my problem though. I think that fuel sloshing in the tank is uncovering

outlet and letting air into the lines because I've flown with low fuel
enough times without any problems.
Phil thanks for the input I'm hoping that by putting the tanks as high

possible I'll have enough head pressure to keep my engine running.
Wayne how dare you suggest my marvelous dribbler carb is less than
perfect ;) Any idea on how to check it?

Drew


At 08:08 PM 9/29/2002 -0700, you wrote:

Drew, do you use external vent tubes? I have them on my fuel caps with
flared openings into the wind stream. I have a Flowscan transducer in my
line after the gascolator that takes .5 PSI to operate, so want to be

there is always sufficient positive pressure in my tanks. They are vented

each other through the cabin as well. So far I have never had a problem,

also have never run them below about 4 gals per tank.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Drew Dalgleish
Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 7:54 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: header tanks


Thanks Wayne My fuel flow is 25gal/hr. each side. I've checked the

strainers in the tank, the screen in the carb and the gascolator. My vent
is separate from the sight guage. I've flown a tank down to the last drop
several times with no problems. I'm planning to keep the tanks as small

practical I don't want to become a human torch either but I never thought
about it when I was flying the aeronca champ with 13gal in my lap. Don't
most aerobatic planes have a header tank in the cockpit?
I'm sorry to hear of the loss of your freind. I had a freind die in a
crash less than a year ago. It still hurts to think about him. He was the
brightest star in our neighborhood but somehow he stalled and spun while
frost flying which he had done for countless hours. Fly safe.
Drew

At 10:10 PM 9/29/2002 -0400, you wrote:

Drew, for god sakes don't add fuel carrying to your cabin to make it

human toaster.

Have you put your airplane into a nose high altitude and checked your

flow again to confirm that you don't have a problem?? I have flown my

for over 7 years and neither my 100 HP O-235 or 150 HP O-320 have ever
skipped a beat and I have made it home on fumes a few times and fly a

tight (read 45* bank turn) circuits when I come into my own field.

Are your sight tubes seperated from the main tank outlet. FOKM's was not
when I got it from Bob and when you put as much as ten gallons into each
wing the fuel flow absolutely sucked as it drew air down the site tube

the fuel flow. 5 gallons or less wouldn't even start to drain, as it was
easier to suck air. With the sight gauge seperated it will drain to the

last

gallon. If you are running on BOTH, which you always should be for

or taking off, then the high wing tank will always bring gas down to the
gascolator.

Have you pulled the inlet screen on your carb (that most people ignore
during annual) to check if it is partical clogged? Maybe when your tanks

are

low there isn't as much head pressure to push fuel past some goo..

Lost my best friend this week, please don't add to the list!

Best regards,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 9:58 PM
Subject: header tanks

fuel.

The

third

30deg

could

really

to

fuel

bottom

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From: Drew Dalgleish

Reply-To:

To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com

Subject: RE: header tanks

Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 22:14:06 -0400

Walter thanks for that idea. I don't have ram air to my tanks just the

1/8" vent hole at the back of each fuel filler neck. I don't think that is

my problem though. I think that fuel sloshing in the tank is uncovering the

outlet and letting air into the lines because I've flown with low fuel

enough times without any problems.

Phil thanks for the input I'm hoping that by putting the tanks as high as

possible I'll have enough head pressure to keep my engine running.

Wayne how dare you suggest my marvelous dribbler carb is less than

perfect ;) Any idea on how to check it?

Drew

At 08:08 PM 9/29/2002 -0700, you wrote:

Drew, do you use external vent tubes? I have them on my fuel caps with

flared openings into the wind stream. I have a Flowscan transducer in my

line after the gascolator that takes .5 PSI to operate, so want to be sure

there is always sufficient positive pressure in my tanks. They are vented to

each other through the cabin as well. So far I have never had a problem, but

also have never run them below about 4 gals per tank.

Walter

-----Original Message-----

From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of

Drew Dalgleish

Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 7:54 PM

To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com

Subject: Re: header tanks

Thanks Wayne My fuel flow is 25gal/hr. each side. I've checked the finger

strainers in the tank, the screen in the carb and the gascolator. My vent

is separate from the sight guage. I've flown a tank down to the last drop

several times with no problems. I'm planning to keep the tanks as small as

practical I don't want to become a human torch either but I never thought

about it when I was flying the aeronca champ with 13gal in my lap. Don't

most aerobatic planes have a header tank in the cockpit?

I'm sorry to hear of the loss of your freind. I had a freind die in a

crash less than a year ago. It still hurts to think about him. He was the

brightest star in our neighborhood but somehow he stalled and spun while

frost flying which he had done for countless hours. Fly safe.

Drew

At 10:10 PM 9/29/2002 -0400, you wrote:

Drew, for god sakes don't add fuel carrying to your cabin to make it into a

human toaster.

Have you put your airplane into a nose high altitude and checked your fuel

flow again to confirm that you don't have a problem?? I have flown my Rebel

for over 7 years and neither my 100 HP O-235 or 150 HP O-320 have ever

skipped a beat and I have made it home on fumes a few times and fly a very

tight (read 45* bank turn) circuits when I come into my own field.

Are your sight tubes seperated from the main tank outlet. FOKM's was not

when I got it from Bob and when you put as much as ten gallons into each

wing the fuel flow absolutely sucked as it drew air down the site tube into

the fuel flow. 5 gallons or less wouldn't even start to drain, as it was

easier to suck air. With the sight gauge seperated it will drain to the

last

gallon. If you are running on BOTH, which you always should be for landing

or taking off, then the high wing tank will always bring gas down to the

gascolator.

Have you pulled the inlet screen on your carb (that most people ignore

during annual) to check if it is partical clogged? Maybe when your tanks

are

low there isn't as much head pressure to push fuel past some goo..

Lost my best friend this week, please don't add to the list!

Best regards,

Wayne

----- Original Message -----

From: "Drew Dalgleish"

To:

Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 9:58 PM

Subject: header tanks

fuel.

The

third

30deg

could

really

to

fuel

bottom

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Drew Are your fuel outlets at the rear of your tank or
at the centre? Dale
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