The Murphy Builders Site

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Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 18:03:17 +0800
From: Philip Craig <philip@airplan.com>
Organization: AirPlan Aviation Technical Services
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Alister,
I saw the photo of your Rebel on the Murphy site, it looks great!

I noticed that the doors on your Rebel are Lexan (?) and I was
wondering about how noisy the cabin is. Some time ago I recall
Bob P mentioning that the Lexan doors on C-FPES (Factory Demo)
cause the cabin to be noisy. I was wondering what your
experience has been and whether you are able to determine if the
primary source of increased noise is due to the rattling of the
lexan against the fuselage or the noise attenuation through the
lexan? Of course, one could always use a good headset and enjoy
the view.

Philip
Rebel 518

--
Philip Craig
Aviation Planner
Halcrow AirPlan
philip@airplan.com
www.airplan.com

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Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 22:27:58 EST
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Hi Philip

Did you get my email on the deburring tool?

Regards


Brian

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From: Philip Craig <philip@airplan.com>
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Brian,

No, I haven't. Could you please send it again.

Thanks

Philip

RebelAir@aol.com wrote:

Hi Philip

Did you get my email on the deburring tool?

Regards

Brian

--
Philip Craig
Aviation Planner
Halcrow AirPlan
philip@airplan.com
www.airplan.com





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hi all

has any one tried to make flush doors instead of the overlapping kind in the
manual

mike#007



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Hi all again,
I'm building doors and plan on hingeing the window at the top. Is there enough room above the door frame and below the wing to attach the hinge flat to the fuselage? Or do I want to attach the hinge to the inside surface of the door opening and the outside surface of the window?
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E



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Inside surface of the fus door frame and use the hinge as your doubler on
top of the Lexan to the window frame. Looks nice and clean that way.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 10:55 PM
Subject: Doors

Hi all again,
I'm building doors and plan on hingeing the window at the top. Is there

enough room above the door frame and below the wing to attach the hinge flat
to the fuselage? Or do I want to attach the hinge to the inside surface of
the door opening and the outside surface of the window?

Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E



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Thanks Wayne, that's just what I needed.
Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 11:23 PM
Subject: Re: Doors

Inside surface of the fus door frame and use the hinge as your doubler on
top of the Lexan to the window frame. Looks nice and clean that way.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 10:55 PM
Subject: Doors

Hi all again,
I'm building doors and plan on hingeing the window at the top. Is there

enough room above the door frame and below the wing to attach the hinge
flat
to the fuselage? Or do I want to attach the hinge to the inside surface of
the door opening and the outside surface of the window?

Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E



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Thanks,
Is the riveting through the lexan done just as with sheet aluminum? Std size
holes and pull rivets tight?
Also, is it std practice to seal down the door skin to the frame work?
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 11:23 PM
Subject: Re: Doors

Inside surface of the fus door frame and use the hinge as your doubler on
top of the Lexan to the window frame. Looks nice and clean that way.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 10:55 PM
Subject: Doors

Hi all again,
I'm building doors and plan on hingeing the window at the top. Is there

enough room above the door frame and below the wing to attach the hinge
flat
to the fuselage? Or do I want to attach the hinge to the inside surface of
the door opening and the outside surface of the window?

Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E



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I always open the lexan holes from the #30 of the rivet size to 5/32 so no
stress is put on it when the rivets are pulled.

If you're concerned with water leakage...consider the door and window are
under the wing. Pretty much a non-issue. If you are refering to the alum
skin to the alum frame of the lower section of the door. Epoxy just like all
the other bulkhead to skin joints you've made.

Wayne


----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: Doors

Thanks,
Is the riveting through the lexan done just as with sheet aluminum? Std

size

holes and pull rivets tight?
Also, is it std practice to seal down the door skin to the frame work?
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 11:23 PM
Subject: Re: Doors

Inside surface of the fus door frame and use the hinge as your doubler

on

top of the Lexan to the window frame. Looks nice and clean that way.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 10:55 PM
Subject: Doors

Hi all again,
I'm building doors and plan on hingeing the window at the top. Is there

enough room above the door frame and below the wing to attach the hinge
flat
to the fuselage? Or do I want to attach the hinge to the inside surface

of

the door opening and the outside surface of the window?

Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E



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FWIW in addition to Wayne's comments I used aluminum "pop" rivets with
aluminum mandrels so that the rivets didn't expand radially so much and
so that they didn't pull as tight as avex. Probably overkill but it's a
thought.
Ken

Mike Betti wrote:

Thanks,
Is the riveting through the lexan done just as with sheet aluminum? Std size
holes and pull rivets tight?
Also, is it std practice to seal down the door skin to the frame work?
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E

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Thanks Wayne,
No, the reason I ask about the sealant is due to a comment you made recently
that maybe I don't understand.
You wrote:
Proseal does a good job. Rivet it together and leave clamped with spring
clamps around the perimeter till it cures. Clean the edge with a knife
afterwards. U are referring to the door jam overlap on the door skins where
you reinforce with .032 or similar?

What do you mean here?
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 7:11 PM
Subject: Re: Doors

I always open the lexan holes from the #30 of the rivet size to 5/32 so no
stress is put on it when the rivets are pulled.

If you're concerned with water leakage...consider the door and window are
under the wing. Pretty much a non-issue. If you are refering to the alum
skin to the alum frame of the lower section of the door. Epoxy just like
all
the other bulkhead to skin joints you've made.

Wayne


----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: Doors

Thanks,
Is the riveting through the lexan done just as with sheet aluminum? Std

size

holes and pull rivets tight?
Also, is it std practice to seal down the door skin to the frame work?
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 11:23 PM
Subject: Re: Doors

Inside surface of the fus door frame and use the hinge as your doubler

on

top of the Lexan to the window frame. Looks nice and clean that way.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 10:55 PM
Subject: Doors

enough room above the door frame and below the wing to attach the hinge
flat
to the fuselage? Or do I want to attach the hinge to the inside surface

of

the door opening and the outside surface of the window?


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I guess I never gave the seats so much thought. But I did see a brief
goverment movie clip today showing a 4 engine airplane of some sort climb
out at about 75 degrees and then about 5 seconds later hit the ground at
about a 90 degree angle!!
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 9:13 PM
Subject: Re: Doors

FWIW in addition to Wayne's comments I used aluminum "pop" rivets with
aluminum mandrels so that the rivets didn't expand radially so much and
so that they didn't pull as tight as avex. Probably overkill but it's a
thought.
Ken

Mike Betti wrote:

Thanks,
Is the riveting through the lexan done just as with sheet aluminum? Std
size
holes and pull rivets tight?
Also, is it std practice to seal down the door skin to the frame work?
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E

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He was referring to the SR and I >THINK< it has skin doublers like I did on
Howard's Rebel doors. Maybe I'm just referring to the doors I did!

The Rebel had you cut the door skins to fit the frames and then add .032
doublers to rivet between the skin and frame to be the door gap filler. We
took it a step further and left the door skin oversize and put the .032
behind it, bonded the two together with Proseal to reinforce. Makes for a
much cleaner looking assembly with a seam free door skin instead of strips
of .032 with cut lines showing on the corners.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 10:43 PM
Subject: Re: Doors

Thanks Wayne,
No, the reason I ask about the sealant is due to a comment you made

recently

that maybe I don't understand.
You wrote:
Proseal does a good job. Rivet it together and leave clamped with spring
clamps around the perimeter till it cures. Clean the edge with a knife
afterwards. U are referring to the door jam overlap on the door skins

where

you reinforce with .032 or similar?

What do you mean here?
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 7:11 PM
Subject: Re: Doors

I always open the lexan holes from the #30 of the rivet size to 5/32 so

no

stress is put on it when the rivets are pulled.

If you're concerned with water leakage...consider the door and window

are

under the wing. Pretty much a non-issue. If you are refering to the alum
skin to the alum frame of the lower section of the door. Epoxy just like
all
the other bulkhead to skin joints you've made.

Wayne


----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: Doors

Thanks,
Is the riveting through the lexan done just as with sheet aluminum? Std

size

holes and pull rivets tight?
Also, is it std practice to seal down the door skin to the frame work?
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 11:23 PM
Subject: Re: Doors

doubler

on

hinge

surface

of

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The Elite is the same way.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 9:54 PM
Subject: Re: Doors

He was referring to the SR and I >THINK< it has skin doublers like I did
on
Howard's Rebel doors. Maybe I'm just referring to the doors I did!

The Rebel had you cut the door skins to fit the frames and then add .032
doublers to rivet between the skin and frame to be the door gap filler. We
took it a step further and left the door skin oversize and put the .032
behind it, bonded the two together with Proseal to reinforce. Makes for a
much cleaner looking assembly with a seam free door skin instead of strips
of .032 with cut lines showing on the corners.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 10:43 PM
Subject: Re: Doors

Thanks Wayne,
No, the reason I ask about the sealant is due to a comment you made

recently

that maybe I don't understand.
You wrote:
Proseal does a good job. Rivet it together and leave clamped with spring
clamps around the perimeter till it cures. Clean the edge with a knife
afterwards. U are referring to the door jam overlap on the door skins

where

you reinforce with .032 or similar?

What do you mean here?
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 7:11 PM
Subject: Re: Doors

I always open the lexan holes from the #30 of the rivet size to 5/32 so

no

stress is put on it when the rivets are pulled.

If you're concerned with water leakage...consider the door and window

are

under the wing. Pretty much a non-issue. If you are refering to the
alum
skin to the alum frame of the lower section of the door. Epoxy just
like
all
the other bulkhead to skin joints you've made.

Wayne


----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: Doors

size

doubler

on

hinge

surface

of


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Does one put some sort of seal on the gap filler?
Mike Betti
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 9:54 PM
Subject: Re: Doors

He was referring to the SR and I >THINK< it has skin doublers like I did
on
Howard's Rebel doors. Maybe I'm just referring to the doors I did!

The Rebel had you cut the door skins to fit the frames and then add .032
doublers to rivet between the skin and frame to be the door gap filler. We
took it a step further and left the door skin oversize and put the .032
behind it, bonded the two together with Proseal to reinforce. Makes for a
much cleaner looking assembly with a seam free door skin instead of strips
of .032 with cut lines showing on the corners.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 10:43 PM
Subject: Re: Doors

Thanks Wayne,
No, the reason I ask about the sealant is due to a comment you made

recently

that maybe I don't understand.
You wrote:
Proseal does a good job. Rivet it together and leave clamped with spring
clamps around the perimeter till it cures. Clean the edge with a knife
afterwards. U are referring to the door jam overlap on the door skins

where

you reinforce with .032 or similar?

What do you mean here?
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 7:11 PM
Subject: Re: Doors

I always open the lexan holes from the #30 of the rivet size to 5/32 so

no

stress is put on it when the rivets are pulled.

If you're concerned with water leakage...consider the door and window

are

under the wing. Pretty much a non-issue. If you are refering to the
alum
skin to the alum frame of the lower section of the door. Epoxy just
like
all
the other bulkhead to skin joints you've made.

Wayne


----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: Doors

size

doubler

on

hinge

surface

of


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