The Murphy Builders Site

All,

I have a question about the root rib attachment to the FUS-3 top cage
carrythrough/gusset. I am including an email I sent to Murphy Tech, as well as
Brian's response. I will also post a photo to the Rebel Fuselage section of the
photo archives to better illustrate the problem. I would appreciate any of your
responses, or work-around ideas if you had this problem too. To say the least I
am not keen on the idea of drilling with little to no edge distance remaining,
especially in this area of the fuselage.

Here's the text of my email to Murphy Tech:

Brian,

Refer: Rebel manual Chapter 12.14 paragraph 1) With a #11 bit, drill back
through the two open holes in the top carrythrough (FUS-3) and into the flange
of the Fuselage Root Ribs (FUS-27).

In my opinion the root rib flange is not tall enough to do this and maintain
accepted edge distances. The flange measures 1 3/8" tall. The existing "two
open holes" in the carrythrough are 1" center to center. By my calculations
this would leave 3/16" edge distance on the root rib flange for a 3/16" rivet.
That is assuming the flange falls exactly center (up/down) to the existing
holes. If not exactly center then the edge distance may be less on one side,
more on the other.

Could you advise on how I should proceed? I have not yet drilled the root rib
flange.

I have attached a JPEG photo of my Rebel to illustrate.


Here's Brian's response:

Hi Roger,
You know, I puzzled over this on both the Rebels and the Mavericks I built,
and decided in all cases the edge distance was not critical here, just
cosmetic. That flange is just tying the rib to the cage, and the root rib is
actually boxed in by the roof and the bulkheads.
So I just went ahead and put the rivets in.
The alternative would be to cut the flange off and install a piece of angle,
but that to me is a bit of a overkill, but it would be prettier.
Regards.
Brian Godden
Murphy Aircraft Mfg. Ltd.


END




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Roger, My 2 cents Canadian!

Drill it, rivet it and forget about it!! If you do the float fix bulletin it
ties the entire area together anyhow, making that tab totally insignificant.
On at least one factory built Rebel (specifically the one I have in the
hanger!) they even cut that tab off all together!

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <rognal@dcsol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 8:59 PM
Subject: Rebel Root Rib to Cage Attach.

All,

I have a question about the root rib attachment to the FUS-3 top cage
carrythrough/gusset. I am including an email I sent to Murphy Tech, as

well as

Brian's response. I will also post a photo to the Rebel Fuselage section

of the

photo archives to better illustrate the problem. I would appreciate any of

your

responses, or work-around ideas if you had this problem too. To say the

least I

am not keen on the idea of drilling with little to no edge distance

remaining,

especially in this area of the fuselage.

Here's the text of my email to Murphy Tech:

Brian,

Refer: Rebel manual Chapter 12.14 paragraph 1) With a #11 bit, drill back
through the two open holes in the top carrythrough (FUS-3) and into the

flange

of the Fuselage Root Ribs (FUS-27).

In my opinion the root rib flange is not tall enough to do this and

maintain

accepted edge distances. The flange measures 1 3/8" tall. The existing

"two

open holes" in the carrythrough are 1" center to center. By my

calculations

this would leave 3/16" edge distance on the root rib flange for a 3/16"

rivet.

That is assuming the flange falls exactly center (up/down) to the existing
holes. If not exactly center then the edge distance may be less on one

side,

more on the other.

Could you advise on how I should proceed? I have not yet drilled the root

rib

flange.

I have attached a JPEG photo of my Rebel to illustrate.


Here's Brian's response:

Hi Roger,
You know, I puzzled over this on both the Rebels and the Mavericks I

built,

and decided in all cases the edge distance was not critical here, just
cosmetic. That flange is just tying the rib to the cage, and the root rib

is

actually boxed in by the roof and the bulkheads.
So I just went ahead and put the rivets in.
The alternative would be to cut the flange off and install a piece of

angle,

but that to me is a bit of a overkill, but it would be prettier.
Regards.
Brian Godden
Murphy Aircraft Mfg. Ltd.


END

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Wayne,

Thanks for the reply and your suggestions. That would have been my next
question, 'could it just be cut off?'

I have no experience with this kind of thing, but it would seem that if I
drilled the tab with substantially less than 'accepted' edge distance, and if
the rivet hole in the flange subsequently cracked because there was little edge
distance, doesn't that comprise the integrity of that rivet AND the
carrythrough gusset/cage? I realize there are a lot of rivets in the gusset so
maybe one or two loose ones would make no difference structurally. It irks me
that Murphy doesn't beef up this area so that I can build to accepted standards.

Anyway I sent that question to Brian (just cut the flange off and leave it) and
will wait for his answer.

Thanks again for the help.

Roger #687R
Eugene, OR USA!

On 9/13/02 8:19 AM, OIFA@IRISHFIELD.ON.CA wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:

-> Roger, My 2 cents Canadian!
->
-> Drill it, rivet it and forget about it!! If you do the float fix bulletin it
-> ties the entire area together anyhow, making that tab totally insignificant.
-> On at least one factory built Rebel (specifically the one I have in the
-> hanger!) they even cut that tab off all together!
->
-> Cheers,
-> Wayne
->
-> ----- Original Message -----
-> From: <rognal@dcsol.com>
-> To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
-> Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 8:59 PM
-> Subject: Rebel Root Rib to Cage Attach.
->
->
-> > All,
-> >
-> > I have a question about the root rib attachment to the FUS-3 top cage
-> > carrythrough/gusset. I am including an email I sent to Murphy Tech, as
-> well as
-> > Brian's response. I will also post a photo to the Rebel Fuselage section
-> of the
-> > photo archives to better illustrate the problem. I would appreciate any of
-> your
-> > responses, or work-around ideas if you had this problem too. To say the
-> least I
-> > am not keen on the idea of drilling with little to no edge distance
-> remaining,
-> > especially in this area of the fuselage.
-> >
-> > Here's the text of my email to Murphy Tech:
-> >
-> > Brian,
-> >
-> > Refer: Rebel manual Chapter 12.14 paragraph 1) With a #11 bit, drill back
-> > through the two open holes in the top carrythrough (FUS-3) and into the
-> flange
-> > of the Fuselage Root Ribs (FUS-27).
-> >
-> > In my opinion the root rib flange is not tall enough to do this and
-> maintain
-> > accepted edge distances. The flange measures 1 3/8" tall. The existing
-> "two
-> > open holes" in the carrythrough are 1" center to center. By my
-> calculations
-> > this would leave 3/16" edge distance on the root rib flange for a 3/16"
-> rivet.
-> > That is assuming the flange falls exactly center (up/down) to the existing
-> > holes. If not exactly center then the edge distance may be less on one
-> side,
-> > more on the other.
-> >
-> > Could you advise on how I should proceed? I have not yet drilled the root
-> rib
-> > flange.
-> >
-> > I have attached a JPEG photo of my Rebel to illustrate.
-> >
-> >
-> > Here's Brian's response:
-> >
-> > Hi Roger,
-> > You know, I puzzled over this on both the Rebels and the Mavericks I
-> built,
-> > and decided in all cases the edge distance was not critical here, just
-> > cosmetic. That flange is just tying the rib to the cage, and the root rib
-> is
-> > actually boxed in by the roof and the bulkheads.
-> > So I just went ahead and put the rivets in.
-> > The alternative would be to cut the flange off and install a piece of
-> angle,
-> > but that to me is a bit of a overkill, but it would be prettier.
-> > Regards.
-> > Brian Godden
-> > Murphy Aircraft Mfg. Ltd.
-> >
-> >
-> > END
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> *-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
-> > To unsubscribe go to http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/listserv.htm
-> > Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
-> > To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> >
-> *-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
-> >
-> >
-> >
->
->





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Roger

Sometimes I file a hole larger (instead of drilling) so that I can draw
it away from the edge. This moves the center of the hole over to
increase the edge distance. Just a thought in case it makes you more
comfortable. Also instead of cutting the flange off, you could perhaps
use 1/8" or 5/32" rivets instead of 3/16.

I don't think there is any way that a cracked flange or loose rivet in
the flange could compromise the integrity of the crossover as long as
the rivet hole in the crossover has the recommended edge distance.

Ken

rognal@dcsol.com wrote:

Wayne,

Thanks for the reply and your suggestions. That would have been my next
question, 'could it just be cut off?'

I have no experience with this kind of thing, but it would seem that if I
drilled the tab with substantially less than 'accepted' edge distance, and if
the rivet hole in the flange subsequently cracked because there was little edge
distance, doesn't that comprise the integrity of that rivet AND the
carrythrough gusset/cage? I realize there are a lot of rivets in the gusset so
maybe one or two loose ones would make no difference structurally. It irks me
that Murphy doesn't beef up this area so that I can build to accepted standards.

Anyway I sent that question to Brian (just cut the flange off and leave it) and
will wait for his answer.

Thanks again for the help.

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Ken,

Thanks for your comments. In this case the holes in the carrythrough gusset are
already drilled to 3/16ths as per the manual's previous instructions.

Roger





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