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To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com> (Murphy Rebel)
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
Subject: Re: VG'S - details
Message-Id: <E0zirN2-0003Dm-00@mail2.toronto.istar.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 21:41:28 -0500


Thanks for the detailed answer !! I checked out MicroAero's web
site - the price is now $595 US. I guess they know they've got a good
thing... :-)

Do you land with full flap ?? We always do. Several of us have
re-adjusted the flaps to get full down deflection WITH air loads on.
Just get a couple of people to push up on the flaps on the ground,
to take up the slack in the Teleflex cable, then adjust for neutral
(actually, the flaps end up slightly down, sitting on the ground ...)

....bobp

--------------------------------orig.--------------------------------
At 12:29 AM 11/25/98 EST, you wrote:

The following info comes from a person whose expertise in aerodynamics is

the

following. If you stick your head out the car window, the faster you go,

the

harder it is to breathe. Does the Rebel need VG's, probably not. In

landing

my Rebel I found that at the speeds I was using the aircraft,developed a

quick

sink in the flair,which required a quick response with elevator. I could

land

faster and not have that problem but the field I am using is rough enough

that

I wanted to be going as slow as I could before allowing it to set down. I

had

read the Sport aviation articles on the Glastar and those little Delta

wings

that they used drew my interest. At Oshkosh 2 years ago I got to talking

to a

fellow whose company did custom work and construction of the Glastar for
customers . They also made a nice looking set of carbon fiber Delta

wings[big

vg's] for the Glastar. He said he would make a set to fit the airfoil of

the

Rebel for a 100 bucks, so I said OK. He made me a set and I stuck them on

and

away I went. I used photos of the Glastar for an idea on spanwise

placement.

The fellow said that I should place them for and aft so that the leading

edge

was about even with the tip of the VG. Did they help? I think they helped

a

little, with no adverse effect. I do get a lot of questions. Thats not

all!

This summer I was dropping my daughter off at her cousins in Anacortes WA.

As

I was tying down the Rebel I was approached by a Charles White whose

company

Micro AeroDynamics is based on the airport at Anacortes. He has a kit out

for

the Rebel [300 buck]. He did not have anything bad to say about the

d-wings I

had installed, but said I should try his VG's. There went 300 more bucks.

I

left the D-wings on and spaced the regular vg's as per his instructions.
Where the d-wings sit I just ommitted a pair of the vg's. Also there are 10
vg's on the underside of each horiz. stab. just forward of the hinge line.

32

on each wing, placed in pairs starting inboard of the fiberglass wingtip

about

3 1/2 inches. Each pair is placed at an angle of 70 degrees from the

first

stringer line of rivets on the top side of the wing. Each pair is angled

v-

like and spaced about 1 1/2 inches apart. The spacing between pairs is

about

9 inches. Any conflicts with rivet lines, you just move that pair

slightly.

Also they are centered between the first and second stringers. So now you
want to know if all these gizmos attached to my wings help. Yes I think

they

do. I have tried to measure a change in stall speed, difficult in a Rebel
because it just mushes. I can accelerate the stall by jerking in the

elevator

close to the stall but then have a hard time telling how fast I was going.

I

know that my landings at slow approach speeds, no longer have that quick

sink

and I feel a lot better making 50mph approaches. What are the vg's

supposed

to do? ANSWER Keep the air attached at high angles of attack. Bob, the

rivets

don't help here,sorry. I like them,they do not seem to have any effect on
cruise speed. Drawbacks, sure . If I lived in Alaska they might be a pain

in

the @@@ trying to get frost off on a winter day. You have to be a little

more

careful with the fuel hose. But when you are at an airshow nobody notices

the

runs in the paint but are asking what those little gizmos.are on the wing

are

for. The vg's are about 1 1/4" long and about 1/2" high. Micro has a

website

www.microaero.com/micro if anyone wants further info. I am done, Good

night

all.

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Subject: Re: VG'S - details
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Bob: I would almost guarantee that the price would be negotiable. I will
check my flaperon settings. Thanks

Dan Stewart