The Murphy Builders Site

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:17 pm**

Hello Rebelheads:

I previously emailed this post to MAM on July 4, 2002 but haven't
received an answer yet. Elaine in shipping said that I won't get an
answer back for another week or so as they are busy preparing to make
the Arlington, Washington EAA Fly-In this week! I think it is a factory

question, but I need to continue on with the project, so I am going to
put this one out to the group for suggestions or comments.

I am working on the Rebel tailcone section, manual dated 18/12/2001,
page 42, Figure 12.6.4.

1. The manual calls out installing a FUS-85 bracket to the Tailspring
Bulkhead. My packing list calls this part number at 4 each "Engine Mount

Fitting". Do I use one of these (4) "Engine Mount Brackets" for this
step? This would leave me with only 3 Engine Mount Brackets. (Side Note:

the drawing in the manual shows FUS-85 going almost to the top of the
Tailspring Bulkhead but the actual part I have is shorter than the
drawing shows).

2. In the same Figure (12.6.4), the manual calls out FUS-87 that nests
into FUS-85. This item is not on my packing list. I DO have a FUS-86
that looks similar and nests into FUS-85 fine, but the "ears" on the
machined piece look a bit short . It looks like (if this is the part)
once the "ears" are drilled to #11 the edge distance will be very
close. Am I missing a part or?

Thanks in advance for your comments and suggestions.

Terry Dazey
Rebel 662

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:17 pm**

The proper part numbers (just ordered this winter for George's rebuild) for the tailcones tailwheel spring attach fittings are FUS-49 for the bulkhead and then FUS-84 and FUS-88 for the fittings (that are similar to the engine mount fittings).

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: Charles Bailey (baileyca2@hotmail.com)
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 1:12 AM
Subject: Rebel tailcone

Hello Rebelheads:

I previously emailed this post to MAM on July 4, 2002 but haven't
received an answer yet. Elaine in shipping said that I won't get an
answer back for another week or so as they are busy preparing to make
the Arlington, Washington EAA Fly-In this week! I think it is a factory

question, but I need to continue on with the project, so I am going to
put this one out to the group for suggestions or comments.

I am working on the Rebel tailcone section, manual dated 18/12/2001,
page 42, Figure 12.6.4.

1. The manual calls out installing a FUS-85 bracket to the Tailspring
Bulkhead. My packing list calls this part number at 4 each "Engine Mount

Fitting". Do I use one of these (4) "Engine Mount Brackets" for this
step? This would leave me with only 3 Engine Mount Brackets. (Side Note:

the drawing in the manual shows FUS-85 going almost to the top of the
Tailspring Bulkhead but the actual part I have is shorter than the
drawing shows).

2. In the same Figure (12.6.4), the manual calls out FUS-87 that nests
into FUS-85. This item is not on my packing list. I DO have a FUS-86
that looks similar and nests into FUS-85 fine, but the "ears" on the
machined piece look a bit short . It looks like (if this is the part)
once the "ears" are drilled to #11 the edge distance will be very
close. Am I missing a part or?

Thanks in advance for your comments and suggestions.

Terry Dazey
Rebel 662

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:17 pm**

On 7/12/02 7:18 PM, OIFA@IRISHFIELD.ON.CA wrote to
MURPHY-REBEL:

-> The proper part numbers (just ordered this winter for George's rebuild)
=
-> for the tailcones tailwheel spring attach fittings are FUS-49 for the =
-> bulkhead and then FUS-84 and FUS-88 for the fittings (that are similar
=
-> to the engine mount fittings).
->
-> Wayne

Okay Wayne, thanks!

I found the parts. They are significantly stouter than the "engine fittings".

EVERYBODY (Rebel builders at least) take note that the drawing/part
number callouts are incorrect. Change it to reflect Waynes comments
above.

Unbelievable . . . or is it just me?

Thanks AGAIN Wayne.

Terry Dazey
Rebel 662

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:17 pm**

Terry,

I didn't see your earlier post on this subject, and I just got back from
Arlington and found your current posting.

I had some issues in this area also. I sent a number of emails to Brian about
this and eventually got it worked out to his and my satisfaction. If you'd like
I can send you copies of our emails.

My manual (#687R)calls out for using a FUS-85 engine mount bracket(five
inventoried), and a FUS-87 engine mount fitting(one inventoried by that number.
My list shows additional four FUS-86's for actual engine mount fittings).

The problem I ran into was that I could not position the FUS-85 engine mount
bracket low enough on the FUS-49 because several of the pre-drilled pilot holes
in the FUS-85 interfered with the tooling holes on the FUS-49. So I had to
mount it slightly higher on the FUS-49.

When I did that and fitted the FUS-87 engine mount fitting into the FUS-85,
I realized the predrilled holes in the side of the FUS-85 would cut very near
the edge of the FUS-87 when drilled. Brian thought I could reposition the
holes, but I wasn't happy with that idea and suggested a spacer under the
FUS-87. He OK'd that, suggesting I Pro-Seal it in place. So I ended up
fabricating and shaping a spacer that fits under the FUS-87 and on top of the
bottom flange of the FUS-49. The bottom side of the spacer is shaped to conform
to the bottom shape of the fuselage skin.

Everything is now fitted and drilled, waiting for final assembly. I sometimes
think MAM must make small changes to parts and assembly without doing any
actual hands on fitting. I just chalked it up to one more frustration to put on
the list of builder's manual complaints.

Roger Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA!

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:17 pm**

-------- Forwarded Message ---------
Original: DATE..... 7/13/02 11:54 AM
Original: FROM..... ROGNAL
Original: TO....... MURPHY REBEL
Original: SUBJECT.. Rebel tailcone
Original: FORUM.... murphy-rebel
Forwarded By....... TERRY DAZEY on 7/13/02 8:03 PM

Terry,

I didn't see your earlier post on this subject, and I just got back from
Arlington and found your current posting.

I had some issues in this area also. I sent a number of emails to Brian
about
this and eventually got it worked out to his and my satisfaction. If you'd
like
I can send you copies of our emails.

My manual (#687R)calls out for using a FUS-85 engine mount
bracket(five
inventoried), and a FUS-87 engine mount fitting(one inventoried by that
number.
My list shows additional four FUS-86's for actual engine mount fittings).

The problem I ran into was that I could not position the FUS-85 engine
mount
bracket low enough on the FUS-49 because several of the pre-drilled
pilot holes
in the FUS-85 interfered with the tooling holes on the FUS-49. So I had to
mount it slightly higher on the FUS-49.

When I did that and fitted the FUS-87 engine mount fitting into the
FUS-85,
I realized the predrilled holes in the side of the FUS-85 would cut very
near
the edge of the FUS-87 when drilled. Brian thought I could reposition the
holes, but I wasn't happy with that idea and suggested a spacer under
the
FUS-87. He OK'd that, suggesting I Pro-Seal it in place. So I ended up
fabricating and shaping a spacer that fits under the FUS-87 and on top of
the
bottom flange of the FUS-49. The bottom side of the spacer is shaped to
conform
to the bottom shape of the fuselage skin.

Everything is now fitted and drilled, waiting for final assembly. I
sometimes
think MAM must make small changes to parts and assembly without
doing any
actual hands on fitting. I just chalked it up to one more frustration to put
on
the list of builder's manual complaints.

Roger Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA!

----- End of Forwarded Message -----

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:17 pm**

Wayne, Roger and All:

Rebel Manual Figure 12.6.4 (Dated 18/12/2001)

First, thanks Wayne and Roger for your previous input to my question on the
tailcone/tailwheel fittings!

Your comments and suggestions have raised questions in my pointed little
head, and apologize for this long-winded explanation and further questions
on this one, so bear with me. I hope I am not beating this to death, but I
am getting part number, physical parts and drawing conflicts.

I will first describe Wayne

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:17 pm**

Terry
This may not help but I've learned not to take MAM's diagrams as gospel.
Some of them are more useful for a general idea rather than exact
positioning details. I'd position your mount as low as possible while
still maintaining edge clearances as well as possible. If I have no
choice I will sometimes skimp on the the edge distance a bit on a thick
piece that is rivetted to a thinner piece but generally I move things
around a bit if it helps. I figure a rivet that starts a crack because
it didn't have proper edge distance is worse than no rivet in most
cases. OTOH if 8 of the 9 (or whatever number is there) are OK, it
wouldn't bother me too much to have one tight if that's the best I could
get.
Not sure, but I think I might have turned the fus-84 180degrees and
rounded off the other end a bit. When I modded this area I think the
pieces were in fact from the engine mount. Sounds like they've added
another part number and changed things a bit. That might explain why
another builder said he simply couldn't insert the 4 horizontal bolts
throuhgh the two parts whereas I don't remember having any trouble with
them. Make sure you get the mount low enough that those 4 bolts also
have proper edge distance.
Ken

Terry Dazey wrote:

Wayne, Roger and All:
snip

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:17 pm**

Terry sounds like your Fus-84 is indeed radius'd on the wrong side (or your
have your Fus-49 in on a slant). If your Fus-49 is right then take the belt
sander to the Fus-84 and make it fit into the -88. As for the edge distance
ignore the manual and it's 1/32 speel out and just overlap the two pieces to
give yourself lots of edge distance on both pieces that makes you
comfortable and don't worry about the top distance for the upper Fus-49
flange.

I thought I had a picture of it all together and riveted to the Fus-49 just
prior to installation into George's tailcone, but I can't seem to find it.
Have posted a shot of all the pieces deburred and ready for installation
that at least you can make out the amount of edge distance that I had on
both the Fus-84 and 88. Hope they help clear the mud a bit!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Dazey" <dazey@earthlink.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2002 11:21 AM
Subject: Rebel Tailcone

Wayne, Roger and All:

Rebel Manual Figure 12.6.4 (Dated 18/12/2001)

First, thanks Wayne and Roger for your previous input to my question on the
tailcone/tailwheel fittings!

Your comments and suggestions have raised questions in my pointed little
head, and apologize for this long-winded explanation and further questions
on this one, so bear with me. I hope I am not beating this to death, but I
am getting part number, physical parts and drawing conflicts.

I will first describe Wayne

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:17 pm**

Terry,

If I were going to do this over again:

I would position the Tailspring Anchor on the Tailspring Bulkhead as the manual
directs, with 1/32nd inch clearance to the fuselage bottom. I would check with
Brian to see if it would be OK to just not drill the rivet hole that interferes
with the tooling hole or figure out some other alternative. If you position it
higher on the bulkhead it will, from my experience, only lead to the other
problems.

I would position the Tailspring Anchor Fitting into the Tailspring Anchor
(rounded edges mating with the inside rounded corners) and shape the bottom of
the Tailspring Anchor Fitting to the fit the bottom of the fuselage. My manual
specifically states "It is important that this part (Tailspring Anchor Fitting)
be shaped to fit the bottom of the fuselage. You will have to fit and shape by
sanding until you have a snug fit into both (the Tailspring Anchor) and the
fuselage bottom".

Also, I don't think I would depend on the drawings to determine exact
positioning as I doubt the drawings are meant to be to scale.

It sounds to me like MAM may have made a change between your manual and mine
regarding the parts and part numbers used in this part of the construction.

I hope this helps you in your decision.

Roger Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA!

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:18 pm**

Hello Rebelheads:

I noticed an error in my previous post. "FUS-86" should be "FUS-88".

It should read:

Wayne mentioned that the proper part
numbers for the attach fittings (FUS-85 as called out in the manual drawing,
similar to the engine mount fittings) should be FUS-88 and FUS-87 (smaller
machined "U" shaped fitting) should be FUS-84!

Sorry for the confusion.

Good Luck!

Terry Dazey
Rebel 662

In an earlier post concerning my question on the correct parts to use for
the tailcone tailwheel attach fittings, Wayne mentioned that the proper part
numbers for the attach fittings (FUS-85 as called out in the manual drawing,
similar to the engine mount fittings) should be FUS-86 and FUS-87 (smaller
machined "U" shaped fitting) should be FUS-84!

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:18 pm**

O.K. - Here's another 2 cents worth!

My partner Chuck and I have taken over serial #
REB493. The first thing that we did was order a new
manual. When I was building up the tail cone several
weeks ago, I found the same part no. problem. After
several emails to MAM, I concluded that in 1994 when
this kit was shipped the tail spring fitting was a
'unique' part number, and a unique part design. MAM
realized some time between then and now that it was
similar in desing to the engine mount fittings. If
they shipped five engine mount fittings in each kit,
and we used one for the tailspring fitting, then MAM
would have one less part number piece to manufacture.

This leads to 'great confusion' for those of us who
are building a kit from a manual that was written at a
different time.

Maybe this will help others who are at the same place
I recently was. It is very frustrating to want to
build the next step, but be unclear about how to do
it!

Can't Wait Till It's Flying!

James - REB493 - Windsor, Ontario Canada

--- Terry Dazey <dazey@earthlink.net> wrote:

Hello Rebelheads:

I noticed an error in my previous post. "FUS-86"
should be "FUS-88".

It should read:

Wayne mentioned that the proper part
numbers for the attach fittings (FUS-85 as called
out in the manual drawing,
similar to the engine mount fittings) should be
FUS-88 and FUS-87 (smaller
machined "U" shaped fitting) should be FUS-84!

Sorry for the confusion.

Good Luck!

Terry Dazey
Rebel 662

In an earlier post concerning my question on the
correct parts to use for
the tailcone tailwheel attach fittings, Wayne
mentioned that the proper part
numbers for the attach fittings (FUS-85 as called
out in the manual drawing,
similar to the engine mount fittings) should be
FUS-86 and FUS-87 (smaller
machined "U" shaped fitting) should be FUS-84!

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:21 pm**

Roger:

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you as.I have been VERY busy here in
sunny Seattle. Sooo busy, that I haven't touched the Rebel project in over a
week now!

Thanks for the thoughts and ideas on the tailwheel/tailcone assembly. I have
since
figured out that I should NOT have revised MY manual in that section! Strange
way to run a business and upgrade a builders manual. Oh, well . . . at least I
have the parts and part
numbers straightened out . . . for now anyway.

I am going to position the Tailspring Anchor as you suggested.

Sounds like you and myself are pretty much in the same chapter, doing the same
stuff.

Occasionally, I find myself roaming Oregon in the Long-EZ. I will give you a call
if I get to your neck of the woods.

Talk to you later.

Your Pilot Pal,
Terry Dazey
Rebel 662

rognal@dcsol.com wrote:

Terry,

If I were going to do this over again:

I would position the Tailspring Anchor on the Tailspring Bulkhead as the manual
directs, with 1/32nd inch clearance to the fuselage bottom. I would check with
Brian to see if it would be OK to just not drill the rivet hole that interferes
with the tooling hole or figure out some other alternative. If you position it
higher on the bulkhead it will, from my experience, only lead to the other
problems.

I would position the Tailspring Anchor Fitting into the Tailspring Anchor
(rounded edges mating with the inside rounded corners) and shape the bottom of
the Tailspring Anchor Fitting to the fit the bottom of the fuselage. My manual
specifically states "It is important that this part (Tailspring Anchor Fitting)
be shaped to fit the bottom of the fuselage. You will have to fit and shape by
sanding until you have a snug fit into both (the Tailspring Anchor) and the
fuselage bottom".

Also, I don't think I would depend on the drawings to determine exact
positioning as I doubt the drawings are meant to be to scale.

It sounds to me like MAM may have made a change between your manual and mine
regarding the parts and part numbers used in this part of the construction.

I hope this helps you in your decision.

Roger Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA!

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