VG'S {Bob @ Dave}

Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:52 pm

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The following info comes from a person whose expertise in aerodynamics is
the
following. If you stick your head out the car window, the faster you go,
the
harder it is to breathe. Does the Rebel need VG's, probably not. In
landing
my Rebel I found that at the speeds I was using the aircraft,developed a
quick
sink in the flair,which required a quick response with elevator. I could
land
faster and not have that problem but the field I am using is rough enough
that
I wanted to be going as slow as I could before allowing it to set down. I
had
read the Sport aviation articles on the Glastar and those little Delta wings
that they used drew my interest. At Oshkosh 2 years ago I got to talking to
a
fellow whose company did custom work and construction of the Glastar for
customers . They also made a nice looking set of carbon fiber Delta
wings[big
vg's] for the Glastar. He said he would make a set to fit the airfoil of
the
Rebel for a 100 bucks, so I said OK. He made me a set and I stuck them on
and
away I went. I used photos of the Glastar for an idea on spanwise
placement.
The fellow said that I should place them for and aft so that the leading
edge
was about even with the tip of the VG. Did they help? I think they helped
a
little, with no adverse effect. I do get a lot of questions. Thats not
all!
This summer I was dropping my daughter off at her cousins in Anacortes WA.
As
I was tying down the Rebel I was approached by a Charles White whose company
Micro AeroDynamics is based on the airport at Anacortes. He has a kit out
for
the Rebel [300 buck]. He did not have anything bad to say about the d-wings
I
had installed, but said I should try his VG's. There went 300 more bucks.
I
left the D-wings on and spaced the regular vg's as per his instructions.
Where the d-wings sit I just ommitted a pair of the vg's. Also there are 10
vg's on the underside of each horiz. stab. just forward of the hinge line.
32
on each wing, placed in pairs starting inboard of the fiberglass wingtip
about
3 1/2 inches. Each pair is placed at an angle of 70 degrees from the first
stringer line of rivets on the top side of the wing. Each pair is angled
v-
like and spaced about 1 1/2 inches apart. The spacing between pairs is
about
9 inches. Any conflicts with rivet lines, you just move that pair slightly.
Also they are centered between the first and second stringers. So now you
want to know if all these gizmos attached to my wings help. Yes I think
they
do. I have tried to measure a change in stall speed, difficult in a Rebel
because it just mushes. I can accelerate the stall by jerking in the
elevator
close to the stall but then have a hard time telling how fast I was going.
I
know that my landings at slow approach speeds, no longer have that quick
sink
and I feel a lot better making 50mph approaches. What are the vg's supposed
to do? ANSWER Keep the air attached at high angles of attack. Bob, the
rivets
don't help here,sorry. I like them,they do not seem to have any effect on
cruise speed. Drawbacks, sure . If I lived in Alaska they might be a pain
in
the @@@ trying to get frost off on a winter day. You have to be a little
more
careful with the fuel hose. But when you are at an airshow nobody notices
the
runs in the paint but are asking what those little gizmos.are on the wing
are
for. The vg's are about 1 1/4" long and about 1/2" high. Micro has a
website
www.microaero.com/micro if anyone wants further info. I am done, Good night
all.

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Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:52 pm

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Subject: RE: VG'S {Bob @ Dave}
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What's 'VG' stand for? Not real familiar with what they look like. I'll
check the site.

Dan
R280

----------
From: REBEL112R@aol.com[SMTP:REBEL112R@aol.com]
Reply To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 9:29 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: VG'S {Bob @ Dave}

The following info comes from a person whose expertise in aerodynamics is
the
following. If you stick your head out the car window, the faster you go,
the
harder it is to breathe. Does the Rebel need VG's, probably not. In
landing
my Rebel I found that at the speeds I was using the aircraft,developed a
quick
sink in the flair,which required a quick response with elevator. I could
land
faster and not have that problem but the field I am using is rough enough
that
I wanted to be going as slow as I could before allowing it to set down. I
had
read the Sport aviation articles on the Glastar and those little Delta
wings
that they used drew my interest. At Oshkosh 2 years ago I got to talking
to a
fellow whose company did custom work and construction of the Glastar for
customers . They also made a nice looking set of carbon fiber Delta
wings[big
vg's] for the Glastar. He said he would make a set to fit the airfoil of
the
Rebel for a 100 bucks, so I said OK. He made me a set and I stuck them on
and
away I went. I used photos of the Glastar for an idea on spanwise
placement.
The fellow said that I should place them for and aft so that the leading
edge
was about even with the tip of the VG. Did they help? I think they
helped a
little, with no adverse effect. I do get a lot of questions. Thats not
all!
This summer I was dropping my daughter off at her cousins in Anacortes WA.
As
I was tying down the Rebel I was approached by a Charles White whose
company
Micro AeroDynamics is based on the airport at Anacortes. He has a kit out
for
the Rebel [300 buck]. He did not have anything bad to say about the
d-wings I
had installed, but said I should try his VG's. There went 300 more bucks.
I
left the D-wings on and spaced the regular vg's as per his instructions.
Where the d-wings sit I just ommitted a pair of the vg's. Also there are
10
vg's on the underside of each horiz. stab. just forward of the hinge
line. 32
on each wing, placed in pairs starting inboard of the fiberglass wingtip
about
3 1/2 inches. Each pair is placed at an angle of 70 degrees from the
first
stringer line of rivets on the top side of the wing. Each pair is angled
v-
like and spaced about 1 1/2 inches apart. The spacing between pairs is
about
9 inches. Any conflicts with rivet lines, you just move that pair
slightly.
Also they are centered between the first and second stringers. So now you
want to know if all these gizmos attached to my wings help. Yes I think
they
do. I have tried to measure a change in stall speed, difficult in a Rebel
because it just mushes. I can accelerate the stall by jerking in the
elevator
close to the stall but then have a hard time telling how fast I was going.
I
know that my landings at slow approach speeds, no longer have that quick
sink
and I feel a lot better making 50mph approaches. What are the vg's
supposed
to do? ANSWER Keep the air attached at high angles of attack. Bob, the
rivets
don't help here,sorry. I like them,they do not seem to have any effect on
cruise speed. Drawbacks, sure . If I lived in Alaska they might be a
pain in
the @@@ trying to get frost off on a winter day. You have to be a little
more
careful with the fuel hose. But when you are at an airshow nobody notices
the
runs in the paint but are asking what those little gizmos.are on the wing
are
for. The vg's are about 1 1/4" long and about 1/2" high. Micro has a
website
www.microaero.com/micro if anyone wants further info. I am done, Good
night
all.

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Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:52 pm

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To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com> (Murphy Rebel)
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Subject: Re: VG'S {Bob @ Dave}
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Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 23:07:17 -0500

But I can land in under 200 ft. NOW !! And touch down at about
30 MPH !!! without VG's - just full flap !!

The Hoerner wing tips that Dave Fife is working on should
give about 3 - 4 mph lower stall AND 3-4 MPH more cruise ...
Sounds easier than installing all those VG's :-)

....bobp
------------------------------orig.-----------------------------------
At 09:17 PM 11/26/98 EST, you wrote:

Hey Dan,
You should get about 100 answers on this one, but VG stands for

Vortex

Generators. Do the do any good? The guy who set the altitude in his longez

is

from my airport and said positively that his record would not have been
possible without them. I would like to hear if they help on getting on

the

step and out of the water. The idea of a Rebel that the stall has been

lowered

3-5 kts is really interesting. Just a footnote to Bobp. The slower you

land,

the shorter the roll. Stop the sink and slow the airplane? Sounds safer to
me. 300 ft instead of 500ft What a machine!!!

Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:52 pm

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Found another source for VG's guys. Check this out. Now if we can get some
testing infor for installation location installation and cost would be
licked.
http://www.mywebco.com/cci/index.html
Dave Bangle

Rebflyer@aol.com wrote:

Hey Dan,
You should get about 100 answers on this one, but VG stands for

Vortex

Generators. Do the do any good? The guy who set the altitude in his

longez is