US Transponder Requirement
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:17 pm
Thought I'd retransmit this email with a good archive title, along with some
additions and clarifications:
I left out Class C airspace. You need one there as well. And by "really
high" I mean that you must have a transponder with altitude reporting
capability above 10000 feet MSL unless you are within 2500 AGL. By the way,
the FARs don't have any special provisions for "with" or "without" altitude
reporting. Wherever there is a transponder requirement, the requirement
includes altitude reporting. Also, Class B doesn't automatically imply a 30
mile veil up to 10000 MSL. The airports that it does apply to are listed in
an Appendix to FAR 91. There are a few airports that are not Class B that
have a 10 mile mode C veil that are listed in a FAR 91 Appendix as well. To
be safe without having to look things up, just assume that any Class C will
want a transponder within 10 miles and any Class B will want a transponder
within 30 miles. By the way, you can always call up ATC and ask for a
waiver. If you just plain don't have one, your request must be made 1 hour
prior to entry. For operations with a busted altitude reporter or even if
the whole thing don't work, you can make the request at any time.
There are special transponder requirements for operations through Air
Defense Identification Zones (ADIZ). Basically, if you are going to fly
through an ADIZ, you must have one or be on a Defense Visual Flight Rules
(DVFR) flight plan. Nowadays, don't mess around in an ADIZ without an
operable transponder, a discrete code, and radar contact.
Then there are all those TFRs. (Temporary Flight Restrictions.) September
11 gave us those nifty presents. Always check NOTAMs for specific operating
restrictions in TFRs. And these little nuisances can pop up just about
anywhere that someone thinks could be a terrorist risk. And they can come
and go as risk is reassessed.
Mike Kimball
SR#044
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Kimball [mailto:mkimball@gci.net]
Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 12:58 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: float build time?
The FARs don't indicate a transponder requirement for crossing the border
although nowadays I always feel better with a discrete code so everyone
knows exactly who I am. I've done plenty of crossings to uncontrolled
fields with no radio contact and the VFR 1200 in my box. After September 11
there might be a new requirement that didn't make it into my 2002 FAR/AIM
book but I haven't heard or read about anything like that. Inside the 30
mile mode C veil associated with Class B airspace or if you like to fly
really high are the only places where you must have a transponder. Anywhere
else, just say "negative transponder" and you shouldn't be denied operation,
however, you won't be able to get radar services.
Mike Kimball
SR#044
-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 1:07 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: float build time?
Drew, looked up my records and I spent 47 hours doing Howard's Amphib
installation, including pump, reservoir, selector, plumbing, x-cables etc,
etc.
As for the "test period" in Canada. The regulations read that as soon as you
install floats or amphibs for the first time (but not skis) your Cof A is
invalid. To be valid you must submit an updated weight and balance to
Transport Canada and a climb test report, for the file they have on your
aircraft. The wording is a real contradiction as it states that your
airplane doesn't have a C of A anymore, yet they want a climb test. What
they actually want is for you to pay $50 to get a flight test permit, so you
can do so and then submit for updating your file and then sit grounded while
they get around to giving you the okay, although there is no C of A to
re-issue so why should you be waiting! They don't bother re-issuing a C of A
with 1730lbs on it as it is standard in the certified world to go up 5% when
on floats, so they leave your existing C of A at 1650 wheels.
Now for "reality"!! Before Jim Pengelly Sr. retired (and can't see it any
different with Wayne Juniper) we did as follows (and I did the same for 4
engine changes that did require getting a new C of A, but never had a wrist
slapped while waiting for it to come for flying based on the cover letter to
TC that I submitted!) and I suggest we keep doing so. Install the airplane
to the amphibs, do the weight and balance to be sure you are alright and
then go out and fly it until you're comfortable (2 or 3 landings with the
"wagon"!). Then load her up and do a climb test. Fill everything out, keep
the original for your records so your plane is legal. Then do a cover letter
for TC stating that you have installed your "Murphy" aircraft to a set of
"Murphy 1800 Amphibs" and have calculated the attached W & B empty and
various configurations and that you have also performed a climb test as
attached at the 1730lb gross specified by "Murphy" for this aircraft, ending
your cover letter with trusting this is everything required for submission
regarding this gear configuration change. Then go have fun, as you have done
your "duty" and submitted the required paperwork to TC. I don't know anyone
with a homebuilt where TC wanted their specific form filled out for a first
time float installation, as is done on a certified aircraft that apparently
also requires an inspection by TC. When we did Howard's, Jim Pengely Sr.
called him up a week less than a year later and stated that "everything
looked fine have fun, goodbye"!
Some think they can just change the information on the Annual Reporting form
the next time it comes in the mail, for floats and engine changes, to be
legal. THIS IS NOT SO! This form has nothing to do with Airworthiness a TC.
It is simply a form that goes to Statistics Canada. If you change something
on your airplane that requires a new W & B, do the paperwork, keep a copy
and send it off to TC with a cover letter just asking to add to your file.
The more you give them, the cleaner you are when push comes to shove and in
the event that you drop your log book into the lake they have copies of
everything on file to keep you flying. IF it wasn't for this kind of paper
submission to TC by the Warplane Heritage Museum, some of their stuff would
still be grounded from their fire where most records were lost, yet TC had
good enough paperwork on them to put them back in the air.
Good Luck with the installation.
If going to Oshkosh, do you have a transponder in you airplane. Had a guy in
our local chapter fly to Newfoundland 3 weeks ago and the short way is to
over fly Maine. He couldn't do it and had to take the long route over
Quebec, as he didn't have a transponder to put a tracking code into. Don't
know if this is a requirement for a flight to cross and land in USA, but you
better make sure and does anyone on line know for sure!?
Cheers,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca
----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 3:59 PM
Subject: float build time?
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additions and clarifications:
I left out Class C airspace. You need one there as well. And by "really
high" I mean that you must have a transponder with altitude reporting
capability above 10000 feet MSL unless you are within 2500 AGL. By the way,
the FARs don't have any special provisions for "with" or "without" altitude
reporting. Wherever there is a transponder requirement, the requirement
includes altitude reporting. Also, Class B doesn't automatically imply a 30
mile veil up to 10000 MSL. The airports that it does apply to are listed in
an Appendix to FAR 91. There are a few airports that are not Class B that
have a 10 mile mode C veil that are listed in a FAR 91 Appendix as well. To
be safe without having to look things up, just assume that any Class C will
want a transponder within 10 miles and any Class B will want a transponder
within 30 miles. By the way, you can always call up ATC and ask for a
waiver. If you just plain don't have one, your request must be made 1 hour
prior to entry. For operations with a busted altitude reporter or even if
the whole thing don't work, you can make the request at any time.
There are special transponder requirements for operations through Air
Defense Identification Zones (ADIZ). Basically, if you are going to fly
through an ADIZ, you must have one or be on a Defense Visual Flight Rules
(DVFR) flight plan. Nowadays, don't mess around in an ADIZ without an
operable transponder, a discrete code, and radar contact.
Then there are all those TFRs. (Temporary Flight Restrictions.) September
11 gave us those nifty presents. Always check NOTAMs for specific operating
restrictions in TFRs. And these little nuisances can pop up just about
anywhere that someone thinks could be a terrorist risk. And they can come
and go as risk is reassessed.
Mike Kimball
SR#044
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Kimball [mailto:mkimball@gci.net]
Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 12:58 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: float build time?
The FARs don't indicate a transponder requirement for crossing the border
although nowadays I always feel better with a discrete code so everyone
knows exactly who I am. I've done plenty of crossings to uncontrolled
fields with no radio contact and the VFR 1200 in my box. After September 11
there might be a new requirement that didn't make it into my 2002 FAR/AIM
book but I haven't heard or read about anything like that. Inside the 30
mile mode C veil associated with Class B airspace or if you like to fly
really high are the only places where you must have a transponder. Anywhere
else, just say "negative transponder" and you shouldn't be denied operation,
however, you won't be able to get radar services.
Mike Kimball
SR#044
-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 1:07 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: float build time?
Drew, looked up my records and I spent 47 hours doing Howard's Amphib
installation, including pump, reservoir, selector, plumbing, x-cables etc,
etc.
As for the "test period" in Canada. The regulations read that as soon as you
install floats or amphibs for the first time (but not skis) your Cof A is
invalid. To be valid you must submit an updated weight and balance to
Transport Canada and a climb test report, for the file they have on your
aircraft. The wording is a real contradiction as it states that your
airplane doesn't have a C of A anymore, yet they want a climb test. What
they actually want is for you to pay $50 to get a flight test permit, so you
can do so and then submit for updating your file and then sit grounded while
they get around to giving you the okay, although there is no C of A to
re-issue so why should you be waiting! They don't bother re-issuing a C of A
with 1730lbs on it as it is standard in the certified world to go up 5% when
on floats, so they leave your existing C of A at 1650 wheels.
Now for "reality"!! Before Jim Pengelly Sr. retired (and can't see it any
different with Wayne Juniper) we did as follows (and I did the same for 4
engine changes that did require getting a new C of A, but never had a wrist
slapped while waiting for it to come for flying based on the cover letter to
TC that I submitted!) and I suggest we keep doing so. Install the airplane
to the amphibs, do the weight and balance to be sure you are alright and
then go out and fly it until you're comfortable (2 or 3 landings with the
"wagon"!). Then load her up and do a climb test. Fill everything out, keep
the original for your records so your plane is legal. Then do a cover letter
for TC stating that you have installed your "Murphy" aircraft to a set of
"Murphy 1800 Amphibs" and have calculated the attached W & B empty and
various configurations and that you have also performed a climb test as
attached at the 1730lb gross specified by "Murphy" for this aircraft, ending
your cover letter with trusting this is everything required for submission
regarding this gear configuration change. Then go have fun, as you have done
your "duty" and submitted the required paperwork to TC. I don't know anyone
with a homebuilt where TC wanted their specific form filled out for a first
time float installation, as is done on a certified aircraft that apparently
also requires an inspection by TC. When we did Howard's, Jim Pengely Sr.
called him up a week less than a year later and stated that "everything
looked fine have fun, goodbye"!
Some think they can just change the information on the Annual Reporting form
the next time it comes in the mail, for floats and engine changes, to be
legal. THIS IS NOT SO! This form has nothing to do with Airworthiness a TC.
It is simply a form that goes to Statistics Canada. If you change something
on your airplane that requires a new W & B, do the paperwork, keep a copy
and send it off to TC with a cover letter just asking to add to your file.
The more you give them, the cleaner you are when push comes to shove and in
the event that you drop your log book into the lake they have copies of
everything on file to keep you flying. IF it wasn't for this kind of paper
submission to TC by the Warplane Heritage Museum, some of their stuff would
still be grounded from their fire where most records were lost, yet TC had
good enough paperwork on them to put them back in the air.
Good Luck with the installation.
If going to Oshkosh, do you have a transponder in you airplane. Had a guy in
our local chapter fly to Newfoundland 3 weeks ago and the short way is to
over fly Maine. He couldn't do it and had to take the long route over
Quebec, as he didn't have a transponder to put a tracking code into. Don't
know if this is a requirement for a flight to cross and land in USA, but you
better make sure and does anyone on line know for sure!?
Cheers,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca
----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 3:59 PM
Subject: float build time?
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*Curt
How long did it take to instal the floats on your plane after you built
them? I should be riveting the bottoms of the second float later this week
and I'm hoping to be ready for oshkosh. Anybody know if you have to fly
another test period when you switch gear in Canada?
Drew Dalgleish
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