The Murphy Builders Site

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:13 pm**

Hello, everyone,

The Manual tells me to use Pro-Seal to fit the roof skylights, but I read that
AeroPlastics advise a foam sealing tape. Any opinions? I live in Albuquerque
but want to build my Elite as though it would be happy in Seattle.

Thanks,
Jeffrey Steenson

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:13 pm**

MAM uses ProSeal for everything requiring a seal. I notice on the Moose they used it on belly rivets. When I asked the indicated it was to keep water out while rolling down the runway. Makes sense! Certainly nothing wrong with it, but its a little expensive and messy. I saw an A&Ps use regular high grade silicon caulk from Home Depot when installing a winshield on a 172. They come in paintable and non-paintable forms. His trick was to fill the area around the window before he rivetted in the window retaining flange. Prior to this masking tape was applied to define the line where caulk ends and window begins. After rivetting he wiped off the excess and let it dry before removing the masking tape. When he removed the tape he had a very uniform and streight line.

How acceptable a practice this is I don't know. Thought I would throw it out and see what others think?

Rick Muller
SR 70

On Wed, 19 Jun 2002 08:04:52 -0800 steenson@dcsol.com wrote:

Hello, everyone,

The Manual tells me to use Pro-Seal to fit the roof skylights, but I read that
AeroPlastics advise a foam sealing tape. Any opinions? I live in Albuquerque
but want to build my Elite as though it would be happy in Seattle.

Thanks,
Jeffrey Steenson

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:13 pm**

Jeffrey, I always use a clear bathroom silicon sealant. I use the bathroom
stuff as it has fungicide in it to kill any algae that may like to take up
residence on your 'craft. I highly suggest fitting all your skylight Lexan
and aluminum doubler rings, but then leave them out until you have done your
paint and then rivet them in and use a brush, or airbrush gun, to hit the
rivet heads with colour. Two reasons for this. You will NEVER get the
silicon off cleanly around the skylight opening to get the paint to "bite"
causing it to chip around the lip of the hole and no matter how careful you
are you usually end up "crazing/hazing" the Lexan in at least a few of the
skylights, due to the solvents getting past your tape and masking. Same goes
for the windows as this also allows painting the entire perimeter of the
door frame tubes before you rivet the "glass" and retainer lips to it.

Cheers,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: <steenson@dcsol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 12:04 PM
Subject: Sealing the Skylights

Hello, everyone,

The Manual tells me to use Pro-Seal to fit the roof skylights, but I read

that

AeroPlastics advise a foam sealing tape. Any opinions? I live in

Albuquerque

but want to build my Elite as though it would be happy in Seattle.

Thanks,
Jeffrey Steenson

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:13 pm**

If I can recommend a product. LEXEL super - elastic sealant. Found in the
plumbing dept. VERY clear, paintable, mildew resistant, and a very strong
adhesion. Haven't had a leak, parked outside since 99.
Phil&Lisa Smith
N414D

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:13 pm**

Thanks Wayne, Phil, and Rick, for your suggestions. I was not looking forward
to messing up that area with Pro-Seal and appreciate the alternate sealer
suggestions. The most frustrating thing about this project (after the manual)
is fabricating but having to wait to finish an assembly because of a myriad of
other steps to consider. A good way to learn patience, eh?

Jeffrey

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:13 pm**

A word of warning. You know how most silicone sealant smells of vinegar?
That's because it releases acetic acid while curing! Bad for aluminium.
You can get aluminium safe silicone seal which is also much nicer to work
with. If it doesn't say its safe on the container it probably isn't.

Regards, Gordon Mohr #222

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:13 pm**

In a message dated 6/21/02 11:35:06 AM Central Daylight Time, gmohr@telus.net writes:

A word of warning. You know how most silicone sealant smells of vinegar?
That's because it releases acetic acid while curing! Bad for aluminium.
You can get aluminium safe silicone seal which is also much nicer to work
with. If it doesn't say its safe on the container it probably isn't.

GORDON
That's another reason I used LEXEL sealant. It's made by SASHCO , the only draw back is I could only find it in 5.5 oz. squeez tubes at about $6 USD.
Phil&Lisa Smith
N414D

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:13 pm**

I certainly appreciate the suggestion about Lexel. I did a quick internet
search on marine sealants -- wow, that is alchemist heaven! Eternity,
infinity, incomprehensibility are words that come to mind.

On 6/21/02 7:20 PM, LISAFLY99@AOL.COM wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:

->
-> --part1_19d.4164e5f.2a44fa38_boundary
-> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
-> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
->
-> In a message dated 6/21/02 11:35:06 AM Central Daylight Time,
gmohr@telus.net
-> writes:
->
->
-> > A word of warning. You know how most silicone sealant smells of vinegar?
-> > That's because it releases acetic acid while curing! Bad for aluminium.
-> > You can get aluminium safe silicone seal which is also much nicer to work
-> > with. If it doesn't say its safe on the container it probably isn't.
-> >
->
-> GORDON
-> That's another reason I used LEXEL sealant. It's made by SASHCO , the only
-> draw back is I could only find it in 5.5 oz. squeez tubes at about $6 USD.
-> Phil&Lisa Smith
-> N414D
->
-> --part1_19d.4164e5f.2a44fa38_boundary
-> Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
-> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
->
-> <HTML>In a message dated 6/21/02
11:35:06 AM Central Daylight Time, gmohr@telus.net writes: 
-> 
-> 
-> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT:
5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">A word of warning.

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:13 pm**

Wayne,
Are these doublers on the inside and against the roof skin? Do you then
install the lexan to the innermost side of the doubler? The layers would then
be, from the outside to the inside, roof skin-.032 thick doubler, 1/8 lexan?
Thanks,
Rick D.

"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:

Jeffrey, I always use a clear bathroom silicon sealant. I use the bathroom
stuff as it has fungicide in it to kill any algae that may like to take up
residence on your 'craft. I highly suggest fitting all your skylight Lexan
and aluminum doubler rings, but then leave them out until you have done your
paint and then rivet them in and use a brush, or airbrush gun, to hit the
rivet heads with colour. Two reasons for this. You will NEVER get the
silicon off cleanly around the skylight opening to get the paint to "bite"
causing it to chip around the lip of the hole and no matter how careful you
are you usually end up "crazing/hazing" the Lexan in at least a few of the
skylights, due to the solvents getting past your tape and masking. Same goes
for the windows as this also allows painting the entire perimeter of the
door frame tubes before you rivet the "glass" and retainer lips to it.

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:13 pm**

NO! You make a Lexan sandwich! Skin, Lexan and then the doubler ring (made
from .025 or .032 alum) The doubler ring it drilled the same size (#30) as
the fus skin and the Lexan is drilled about 2 sizes over size. This way the
rivet expands and pulls on the doubler and doesn't induce stress in the
lexan. Or you can buy and use the new MAM preformed doublers that look like
they just get riveted to the fus skin and the Lexan "free floats" inside the
joggled doubler.

Cheers,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick DeCiero" <rsdec1@star.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2002 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: Sealing the Skylights

Wayne,
Are these doublers on the inside and against the roof skin? Do you

then

install the lexan to the innermost side of the doubler? The layers would

then

be, from the outside to the inside, roof skin-.032 thick doubler, 1/8

lexan?

Thanks,
Rick D.

"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:

Jeffrey, I always use a clear bathroom silicon sealant. I use the

bathroom

stuff as it has fungicide in it to kill any algae that may like to take

up

residence on your 'craft. I highly suggest fitting all your skylight

Lexan

and aluminum doubler rings, but then leave them out until you have done

your

paint and then rivet them in and use a brush, or airbrush gun, to hit

the

rivet heads with colour. Two reasons for this. You will NEVER get the
silicon off cleanly around the skylight opening to get the paint to

"bite"

causing it to chip around the lip of the hole and no matter how careful

you

are you usually end up "crazing/hazing" the Lexan in at least a few of

the

skylights, due to the solvents getting past your tape and masking. Same

goes

for the windows as this also allows painting the entire perimeter of the
door frame tubes before you rivet the "glass" and retainer lips to it.

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:13 pm**

rickhm@mindspring.com wrote:

MAM uses ProSeal for everything requiring a seal. I notice on the Moose they used it on belly rivets. When I asked the indicated it was to keep water out while rolling down the runway. Makes sense! Certainly nothing wrong with it, but its a little expensive and messy. I saw an A&Ps use regular high grade silicon caulk from Home Depot when installing a winshield on a 172. They come in paintable and non-paintable forms. His trick was to fill the area around the window before he rivetted in the window retaining flange. Prior to this masking tape was applied to define the line where caulk ends and window begins. After rivetting he wiped off the excess and let it dry before removing the masking tape. When he removed the tape he had a very uniform and streight line.

How acceptable a practice this is I don't know. Thought I would throw it out and see what others think?

Rick Muller
SR 70

On Wed, 19 Jun 2002 08:04:52 -0800 steenson@dcsol.com wrote:

Hello, everyone,

The Manual tells me to use Pro-Seal to fit the roof skylights, but I read that
AeroPlastics advise a foam sealing tape. Any opinions? I live in Albuquerque
but want to build my Elite as though it would be happy in Seattle.

Thanks,
Jeffrey Steenson

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--
David Qualley
As Built Floor Plans Canada
#201 - 19241 Ford Road
Pitt Meadows, BC, V3Y 2N4
tel 604.465.3222
fax 604.648.9136
http://AsBuiltFloorPlans.COM

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:13 pm**

The Murphy preformed/joggled skylight kits are just great !
They solve the problem of strengthening the hole, and supporting
the Lexan. They are easy to use as a pattern for cutting the hole
in the skin, cutting out the Lexan, and marking the rivet locations, too ...

I'm using the <Bostick 1100> adhesive that the windshield
manufacturer recommends. It comes in several colours, and stays
flexible after cure, (but without TOO MUCH adhesion - like ProSeal !!)
It's available from most construction supply houses.

.....bobp

--------------------------------orig.----------------------------------
At 10:30 AM 6/22/02 -0400, you wrote:

NO! You make a Lexan sandwich! Skin, Lexan and then the doubler ring (made
from .025 or .032 alum) The doubler ring it drilled the same size (#30) as
the fus skin and the Lexan is drilled about 2 sizes over size. This way the
rivet expands and pulls on the doubler and doesn't induce stress in the
lexan. Or you can buy and use the new MAM preformed doublers that look like
they just get riveted to the fus skin and the Lexan "free floats" inside the
joggled doubler.

Cheers,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick DeCiero" <rsdec1@star.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2002 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: Sealing the Skylights

Wayne,
Are these doublers on the inside and against the roof skin? Do you
then
install the lexan to the innermost side of the doubler? The layers would
then
be, from the outside to the inside, roof skin-.032 thick doubler, 1/8
lexan?
Thanks,
Rick D.

"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:

Jeffrey, I always use a clear bathroom silicon sealant. I use the
bathroom
stuff as it has fungicide in it to kill any algae that may like to take
up
residence on your 'craft. I highly suggest fitting all your skylight
Lexan
and aluminum doubler rings, but then leave them out until you have done
your
paint and then rivet them in and use a brush, or airbrush gun, to hit
the
rivet heads with colour. Two reasons for this. You will NEVER get the
silicon off cleanly around the skylight opening to get the paint to
"bite"
causing it to chip around the lip of the hole and no matter how careful
you
are you usually end up "crazing/hazing" the Lexan in at least a few of
the
skylights, due to the solvents getting past your tape and masking. Same
goes
for the windows as this also allows painting the entire perimeter of the
door frame tubes before you rivet the "glass" and retainer lips to it.

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:13 pm**

Hi, Bob,

I agree about the usefulness of the factory kits. On mine it appears that
1/16" or possibly 3/32" is the way to go. Putting in 1/8" lexan would be an
overly tight fit and squeeze all the sealout out.

Jeffrey

On 6/22/02 6:17 PM, BOB.PATTERSON@CANREM.COM wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:

->
-> The Murphy preformed/joggled skylight kits are just great !
-> They solve the problem of strengthening the hole, and supporting
-> the Lexan. They are easy to use as a pattern for cutting the hole
-> in the skin, cutting out the Lexan, and marking the rivet locations, too ...
->
-> I'm using the <Bostick 1100> adhesive that the windshield
-> manufacturer recommends. It comes in several colours, and stays
-> flexible after cure, (but without TOO MUCH adhesion - like ProSeal !!)
-> It's available from most construction supply houses.
->
-> .....bobp

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:13 pm**

Bob

What other goodies does MAM have like the skylight retainers & landing lights?
They don't do well at publicising the accessories like this, perhaps a page on
their site about accessories would get the word out.

Just a thought.

Cheers,

Dave R.

Bob Patterson wrote:

The Murphy preformed/joggled skylight kits are just great !
They solve the problem of strengthening the hole, and supporting
the Lexan. They are easy to use as a pattern for cutting the hole
in the skin, cutting out the Lexan, and marking the rivet locations, too ...

I'm using the <Bostick 1100> adhesive that the windshield
manufacturer recommends. It comes in several colours, and stays
flexible after cure, (but without TOO MUCH adhesion - like ProSeal !!)
It's available from most construction supply houses.

.....bobp

SNIP!

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:17 pm**

Hi Dave !

It has been suggested ! ;-^) ;-)

I've long said that encouraging the existing third-party
products for the Murphy line would benefit everybody - and you may
see a Murphy web page later this year for all of the add-ons, like the
Fife wing tips and the McKenzie STOL kits ..... (both soon to be
available for the Elite ..), as well as some more interesting goodies.
I hope there are more people out there willing to share <their>
add-ons by offering them for sale.

.....bobp

---------------------------------orig.------------------------------
At 11:19 AM 6/23/02 -0300, you wrote:

Bob

What other goodies does MAM have like the skylight retainers & landing lights?
They don't do well at publicising the accessories like this, perhaps a page on
their site about accessories would get the word out.

Just a thought.

Cheers,

Dave R.

Bob Patterson wrote:

The Murphy preformed/joggled skylight kits are just great !
They solve the problem of strengthening the hole, and supporting
the Lexan. They are easy to use as a pattern for cutting the hole
in the skin, cutting out the Lexan, and marking the rivet locations, too ...

I'm using the <Bostick 1100> adhesive that the windshield
manufacturer recommends. It comes in several colours, and stays
flexible after cure, (but without TOO MUCH adhesion - like ProSeal !!)
It's available from most construction supply houses.

.....bobp

SNIP!
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