The Murphy Builders Site

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:13 pm**

G'day

Help again!

On my Rebel I am using the bungee gear, but have used 12 #9044 rings instead of the factory single bungee rubber. ( I could not get that single rubber tight enough!)

Now my question is, just how much movement should I expect the gear to have? The gear as it is, with the 12 rubbers is rock hard, and I would like to soften it up a bit. It does not appear to move at all and gives a most uncomfortable ride.

What sort of movement should I expect the gear to have?
How would I measure it?
How much is enough or too much?

I am keen to get the Rebel nicely sorted out so I can go flying. This year I flew on the longest day, and as the shortest day is approaching I want to fly then also. However the weather has not been too good. Wind and rain and temps around +15C. We are freezing!

Thanks and regards

Ian Donaldson

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:13 pm**

G'day Wayne

Thanks for your reply.

I am running the tyres at 17psi ( for no other reason than that's just what they are) but the ride is harsh.
I will reduce them a few more psi and see just what happens.

Do you think there would be a problem if I slipped a ring off each of the top two sliders, leaving three on one side and two on the other?
Would it set up as asymmetric load?

I was not aware of the maintenance section until you mentioned it. I finally found it on the MAM site. It's interesting to note that the suspension should only move on a hard landing, but how do you know if it does and how much?

I'm not sure about the tyres being out of round, but that's something that I will check at the first opportunity.

Oh the joys of Rebel ownership!

Thanks again and regards

Ian Donaldson

Ian, lower the pressure in your tires for a while, down to 12 or 15psi to be the shock absorbers. It won't take long before those bungees loosen up and in reality they should only move in a hard landing for airframe protection. The less movement you have on the slider the better and if you look in MAM's maintenance section for the Rebel they (the slider tubes) are mandatory replacement at 200 hrs. If they aren't sliding much then they will last a lot longer and your aircraft will sit up nicer if they are tight. Once the bungees start to soften the aircraft does a lot of bobbing back and forth while taxing and I would prefer the hard bouncy ride!! If they don't soften up and you are staying light for most of your flying you may be able to pop the top ring off each location (ie remove 4). I find though with the O-320 Rebel that even 12 isn't really enough even when empty at 950lb and the tanks are full, so may be a little light bungee wise for you even with the 912S when you are loaded up and ready to travel if you go down to 8 rings.

Could also be that the tires are slightly out of round, from sitting around for a while. Just finished up and returned George's Rebel to it's "nest" in Brampton yesterday and while it seemed fine here on the grass, it had a bit of oscillation while taxing on the pavement (less than smooth) at Brampton. Looking out you the window, as I taxied along, I could see that the tires were a little out of round, most likely from sitting for 3 years.

Wayne

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:13 pm**

I think if you make one side of the strut looser than the other (by having 2 rings on ones side of the bolts and 3 on the other) it is going to cause the slider to wear considerably, as the uneven load will make it bind.

I was also assuming that you are running the 8.00 x 6 turf tires!

Cheers,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: Ian Donaldson (allsure@iprimus.com.au)
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: Rebel Bungee Gear

G'day Wayne

Thanks for your reply.

I am running the tyres at 17psi ( for no other reason than that's just what they are) but the ride is harsh.
I will reduce them a few more psi and see just what happens.

Do you think there would be a problem if I slipped a ring off each of the top two sliders, leaving three on one side and two on the other?
Would it set up as asymmetric load?

I was not aware of the maintenance section until you mentioned it. I finally found it on the MAM site. It's interesting to note that the suspension should only move on a hard landing, but how do you know if it does and how much?

I'm not sure about the tyres being out of round, but that's something that I will check at the first opportunity.

Oh the joys of Rebel ownership!

Thanks again and regards

Ian Donaldson

Ian, lower the pressure in your tires for a while, down to 12 or 15psi to be the shock absorbers. It won't take long before those bungees loosen up and in reality they should only move in a hard landing for airframe protection. The less movement you have on the slider the better and if you look in MAM's maintenance section for the Rebel they (the slider tubes) are mandatory replacement at 200 hrs. If they aren't sliding much then they will last a lot longer and your aircraft will sit up nicer if they are tight. Once the bungees start to soften the aircraft does a lot of bobbing back and forth while taxing and I would prefer the hard bouncy ride!! If they don't soften up and you are staying light for most of your flying you may be able to pop the top ring off each location (ie remove 4). I find though with the O-320 Rebel that even 12 isn't really enough even when empty at 950lb and the tanks are full, so may be a little light bungee wise for you even with the 912S when you are loaded up and ready to travel if you go down to 8 rings.

Could also be that the tires are slightly out of round, from sitting around for a while. Just finished up and returned George's Rebel to it's "nest" in Brampton yesterday and while it seemed fine here on the grass, it had a bit of oscillation while taxing on the pavement (less than smooth) at Brampton. Looking out you the window, as I taxied along, I could see that the tires were a little out of round, most likely from sitting for 3 years.

Wayne

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:13 pm**

Ian, lower the pressure in your tires for a while, down to 12 or 15psi to be the shock absorbers. It won't take long before those bungees loosen up and in reality they should only move in a hard landing for airframe protection. The less movement you have on the slider the better and if you look in MAM's maintenance section for the Rebel they (the slider tubes) are mandatory replacement at 200 hrs. If they aren't sliding much then they will last a lot longer and your aircraft will sit up nicer if they are tight. Once the bungees start to soften the aircraft does a lot of bobbing back and forth while taxing and I would prefer the hard bouncy ride!! If they don't soften up and you are staying light for most of your flying you may be able to pop the top ring off each location (ie remove 4). I find though with the O-320 Rebel that even 12 isn't really enough even when empty at 950lb and the tanks are full, so may be a little light bungee wise for you even with the 912S when you are loaded up and ready to travel if you go down to 8 rings.

Could also be that the tires are slightly out of round, from sitting around for a while. Just finished up and returned George's Rebel to it's "nest" in Brampton yesterday and while it seemed fine here on the grass, it had a bit of oscillation while taxing on the pavement (less than smooth) at Brampton. Looking out you the window, as I taxied along, I could see that the tires were a little out of round, most likely from sitting for 3 years.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: Ian Donaldson (allsure@iprimus.com.au)
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 9:59 AM
Subject: Rebel Bungee Gear

G'day

Help again!

On my Rebel I am using the bungee gear, but have used 12 #9044 rings instead of the factory single bungee rubber. ( I could not get that single rubber tight enough!)

Now my question is, just how much movement should I expect the gear to have? The gear as it is, with the 12 rubbers is rock hard, and I would like to soften it up a bit. It does not appear to move at all and gives a most uncomfortable ride.

What sort of movement should I expect the gear to have?
How would I measure it?
How much is enough or too much?

I am keen to get the Rebel nicely sorted out so I can go flying. This year I flew on the longest day, and as the shortest day is approaching I want to fly then also. However the weather has not been too good. Wind and rain and temps around +15C. We are freezing!

Thanks and regards

Ian Donaldson

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:42 pm**

G'day

I have a Rebel with a 100hp Rotax, and it is fitted with the standard
bungee gear.

Well not really standard as I have fitted 8 of the 9044 factory made bungee
rings.

Now my problem is that it appears that the legs do not move at all. No
matter how I load the plane, or in fact jump around inside, the legs just
don't move.

What experience do others have? How many rings is enough? Should the legs
move while taxying?

I look forward to hearing your responses.

Regards

Ian Donaldson

PS the temperature here where I live in Australia is currently 37o. That's
centigrade!

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:42 pm**

Hi Ian
I have 12- 9044 bungee rings on 049R with just over 1000#s empty
weight,0320,McCauley prop plus everything in the 2000 page accessory
catalogue.The gear starts to move on landing with 2 people,full fuel.Then
fill up the baggage and you can feel it move when you taxi on a rough
strip.That is in the summer here in S.Ont. I am going to rebuild this gear
with die-springs after I remove it to install the amphibs in the spring.
Regards,Angus

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:42 pm**

Back when I had mine on wheels, I also used 12 bungees.
It was pretty tight, but I think that's what you want.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
jgrant&amckenzie
Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 6:05 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Rebel bungee gear

Hi Ian
I have 12- 9044 bungee rings on 049R with
just over 1000#s empty
weight,0320,McCauley prop plus everything in
the 2000 page accessory
catalogue.The gear starts to move on landing
with 2 people,full fuel.Then
fill up the baggage and you can feel it move
when you taxi on a rough
strip.That is in the summer here in S.Ont. I
am going to rebuild this gear
with die-springs after I remove it to
install the amphibs in the spring.
Regards,Angus

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:42 pm**

Hi Ian !

I recall Darryl Murphy saying that the bungee gear is only
supposed to move to prevent structural damage to the fuselage. The
tires are the main shock absorbers - that's why I like the fat DICO
or CARLYLE tires so much !! :-) These are available from Murphy,
at about half the cost of the skinnier 'aircraft' tires, and are
well suited to a 912 Rebel !

Do not slacken them up so the gear moves when taxying - if
the gear moves a lot, you will wear through the tops of the gear
legs very quickly. Gord Mohr makes a beautiful set of fitting to
go into the tops of the gear legs, with brass bushings inserted,
to prevent this wear - and they are essential if you go to a
die-spring setup to replace the bungees. The die-spring gear (IF the
springs are carefully selected for rate & load) will give you
THE best ride in a Rebel. The Cessna-style spring gear tends to
"waddle", but the die spring gear just gives a great, smooth ride -
but everything is moving all the time, so lubrication & bushings
are essential.

Best suggestion for now - use the fat tires, and lower the
air pressure a bit (they work great at 12-14 lb.)......

....bobp

---------------------------------orig.----------------------------------
At 11:38 PM 1/14/03 +1100, you wrote:

G'day

I have a Rebel with a 100hp Rotax, and it is fitted with the standard
bungee gear.

Well not really standard as I have fitted 8 of the 9044 factory made bungee
rings.

Now my problem is that it appears that the legs do not move at all. No
matter how I load the plane, or in fact jump around inside, the legs just
don't move.

What experience do others have? How many rings is enough? Should the legs
move while taxying?

I look forward to hearing your responses.

Regards

Ian Donaldson

PS the temperature here where I live in Australia is currently 37o. That's
centigrade!

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:42 pm**

G'day Bob !

Can you give me contact details for Gordon Mohr ?!? ... I have die
springs on Rebel 541R .... and the ride / landings are GREAT - Soft &
Smooth ...But, obviously the gear "works" up & down a fair bit .... I've
toyed with the idea of making my own bushes ,... but if Gordon's are
tried & proven, I'll drop him a line.

PS Done nearly 200 hrs (and about 500 landings) in 18 months so far ...
and the next 4 months will see another 50 to 70 hours on the VDO ! and
all looks good so far :-)

Flying from Sydney to Perth & back in late April (same distance as coast
to coast in Canada or the US )

Rick & Wendy Harper
541R
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Patterson
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 6:50 AM
Subject: Re: Rebel bungee gear

Hi Ian !

I recall Darryl Murphy saying that the bungee gear is only
supposed to move to prevent structural damage to the fuselage. The
tires are the main shock absorbers - that's why I like the fat DICO
or CARLYLE tires so much !! :-) These are available from Murphy,
at about half the cost of the skinnier 'aircraft' tires, and are
well suited to a 912 Rebel !

Do not slacken them up so the gear moves when taxying - if
the gear moves a lot, you will wear through the tops of the gear
legs very quickly. Gord Mohr makes a beautiful set of fitting to
go into the tops of the gear legs, with brass bushings inserted,
to prevent this wear - and they are essential if you go to a
die-spring setup to replace the bungees. The die-spring gear (IF the
springs are carefully selected for rate & load) will give you
THE best ride in a Rebel. The Cessna-style spring gear tends to
"waddle", but the die spring gear just gives a great, smooth ride -
but everything is moving all the time, so lubrication & bushings
are essential.

Best suggestion for now - use the fat tires, and lower the
air pressure a bit (they work great at 12-14 lb.)......

....bobp

---------------------------------orig.----------------------------------
At 11:38 PM 1/14/03 +1100, you wrote:

G'day

I have a Rebel with a 100hp Rotax, and it is fitted with the

standard

bungee gear.

Well not really standard as I have fitted 8 of the 9044 factory made

bungee

rings.

Now my problem is that it appears that the legs do not move at all.

No

matter how I load the plane, or in fact jump around inside, the legs

just

don't move.

What experience do others have? How many rings is enough? Should the

legs

move while taxying?

I look forward to hearing your responses.

Regards

Ian Donaldson

PS the temperature here where I live in Australia is currently 37o.

That's

centigrade!

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:42 pm**

G'day Angus.

Thanks for your reply.
My Rebel is 320kilos ( about 65O lbs) And I think that my bungies don't move
at all!

Your airplane is considerably heavier so I guess that will make the bungies
move some more.

Maybe a die spring suspension is something to consider in the future.

Regards

Ian Donaldson

Hi Ian
I have 12- 9044 bungee rings on 049R with just over 1000#s empty
weight,0320,McCauley prop plus everything in the 2000 page accessory
catalogue.The gear starts to move on landing with 2 people,full fuel.Then
fill up the baggage and you can feel it move when you taxi on a rough
strip.That is in the summer here in S.Ont. I am going to rebuild this gear
with die-springs after I remove it to install the amphibs in the spring.
Regards,Angus

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:42 pm**

G'day Bob
Thanks for the reply.

The tyres (tires) that I have are something like 15x6. They are the standard
MAM issue ,and I do run low pressure in them, but I will let them down to
12/14 as you suggest.

I never considered that it would wear the gear out if the bungies are
loose. But it seems to me that there is no give in them at all.

I have been trying to think of a way to see if the bungies do move, and it
suddenly occurred to me that all I need to do is tie a string with some
slack in it between the bungie bolts. Then when I do a few landings I could
check if the string has broken. Hows that for an idea.?

The die spring suspension seems a good thing, but the bungies are cheap,
light and simple.

Thanks again and regards

Ian Donaldson

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:42 pm**

G'day Walter

Thanks for your reply and interest.

There is also an e-mail from bob and I have added a few further thoughts
there.

Regards

Ian Donaldson

Back when I had mine on wheels, I also used 12 bungees.
It was pretty tight, but I think that's what you want.

Walter

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:42 pm**

Rick,

I had this info handy so I hope you and Bob don't mind my butting in here:

Gordon Mohr
Mohr Industries, RR #3, Site 7, Comp. 44
Terrace, B.C., Canada V8G 4R6

Phone: 250-638-8919
Email: gmohr@telus.net.

My notes indicate that he works rotating shifts and is often not at the
telephone, but he does have an answering machine and he will get back to you.
Email or snail mail is usually easier, he said.

I bought a set of his bushings nearly a year ago. They are very nicely
machined and appear to be well made.

Hope this helps.

Roger Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA!

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:42 pm**

Hi Ian !
The piece of string sounds like a good solution ! Rebel
builders are inventive !! ;-)

The only caution with low 'tyre' pressure is - if it's too
low, the tires can rotate, pulling the tube, and possibly yank the
filler stem off !! (voice of sad experience ...) :-(

It could just be that your landings are sooooo smoooooth that
the bungies don't have to move ! ;-^) :-)

You're right about the bungies being simple, light, and
strong - just like the Rebel. Guess that's why they were chosen ! :-)

Glad you're enjoying the Rebel - one of these years I'll
have one set up like yours, with the 912-S. My 'hot rod' O-320 is fun,
but, as I age, I'll want something a lot less 'thirsty'.... ;-)

.....bobp

-----------------------------orig.---------------------------------
At 12:10 AM 1/16/03 +1100, you wrote:

G'day Bob
Thanks for the reply.

The tyres (tires) that I have are something like 15x6. They are the standard
MAM issue ,and I do run low pressure in them, but I will let them down to
12/14 as you suggest.

I never considered that it would wear the gear out if the bungies are
loose. But it seems to me that there is no give in them at all.

I have been trying to think of a way to see if the bungies do move, and it
suddenly occurred to me that all I need to do is tie a string with some
slack in it between the bungie bolts. Then when I do a few landings I could
check if the string has broken. Hows that for an idea.?

The die spring suspension seems a good thing, but the bungies are cheap,
light and simple.

Thanks again and regards

Ian Donaldson

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:42 pm**

Hi Rick !

Thanks to Roger, you've got the contact details....

I have a set of Gord's bushings on my Rebel, to compliment
Wayne's die spring gear legs, and they are very nicely done. The cost
shouldn't be toooo painful, given that our Canuck Buck is close to
par with yours !

Sounds like you're really enjoying your Rebel !! I sure
would like to come down there & fly along on one of your trips -
they sound a lot more 'exciting' than the Rambles !! ;-)
You sure fly over some rough country ! Maybe one of these years
Anna & I will come for one of those 'spam can' fly-yourself tours
of OZ - sure sounds like a GREAT vacation !!

.....bobp

-------------------------------orig.--------------------------------
At 04:11 PM 1/15/03 +1100, you wrote:

G'day Bob !

Can you give me contact details for Gordon Mohr ?!? ... I have die
springs on Rebel 541R .... and the ride / landings are GREAT - Soft &
Smooth ...But, obviously the gear "works" up & down a fair bit .... I've
toyed with the idea of making my own bushes ,... but if Gordon's are
tried & proven, I'll drop him a line.

PS Done nearly 200 hrs (and about 500 landings) in 18 months so far ...
and the next 4 months will see another 50 to 70 hours on the VDO ! and
all looks good so far :-)

Flying from Sydney to Perth & back in late April (same distance as coast
to coast in Canada or the US )

Rick & Wendy Harper
541R
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Patterson
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 6:50 AM
Subject: Re: Rebel bungee gear

Hi Ian !

I recall Darryl Murphy saying that the bungee gear is only
supposed to move to prevent structural damage to the fuselage. The
tires are the main shock absorbers - that's why I like the fat DICO
or CARLYLE tires so much !! :-) These are available from Murphy,
at about half the cost of the skinnier 'aircraft' tires, and are
well suited to a 912 Rebel !

Do not slacken them up so the gear moves when taxying - if
the gear moves a lot, you will wear through the tops of the gear
legs very quickly. Gord Mohr makes a beautiful set of fitting to
go into the tops of the gear legs, with brass bushings inserted,
to prevent this wear - and they are essential if you go to a
die-spring setup to replace the bungees. The die-spring gear (IF the
springs are carefully selected for rate & load) will give you
THE best ride in a Rebel. The Cessna-style spring gear tends to
"waddle", but the die spring gear just gives a great, smooth ride -
but everything is moving all the time, so lubrication & bushings
are essential.

Best suggestion for now - use the fat tires, and lower the
air pressure a bit (they work great at 12-14 lb.)......

....bobp

---------------------------------orig.----------------------------------
At 11:38 PM 1/14/03 +1100, you wrote:
G'day

I have a Rebel with a 100hp Rotax, and it is fitted with the
standard
bungee gear.

Well not really standard as I have fitted 8 of the 9044 factory made
bungee
rings.

Now my problem is that it appears that the legs do not move at all.
No
matter how I load the plane, or in fact jump around inside, the legs
just
don't move.

What experience do others have? How many rings is enough? Should the
legs
move while taxying?

I look forward to hearing your responses.

Regards

Ian Donaldson

PS the temperature here where I live in Australia is currently 37o.
That's
centigrade!

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