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Getting started

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:13 pm
by Trevor Philbrick
Hello all, future rebel builder here just looking for a little advice. I'm awaiting delivery of tail kit 725R next week and am in need of aquiring some tools in addition to the basic kit (ie pneumatic riveter and drill). Any suggestions on makes/ models and additional tools. Also would appreciate any leads on publications/ web sites to help get the courage to drill that first hole. Thanks in advance.
Trevor Philbrick 725R

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Getting started

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:13 pm
by Terry Dazey
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Trevor Philbrick wrote: [quote] Any suggestions on makes/ models and additional tools. Also would appreciate any leads on publications/ web sites to help get the courage to drill that first hole.
Trevor Philbrick 725R


Welcome aboard Trevor!
After ordering my kit in July 1999, I interviewed several local Rebel builders to get ideas on what tools and equipment were necessary. After all notes were taken, I decided to make a simple "equipment needed" spread sheet in Excel to sort out the best prices available from the best supplier.
Most of these tools are new to my shop, as my previous aircraft building project required different type of assortment. Here is a list of basic tools I came up with for my Rebel project:
Good Air Compressor
Hand Rivet Tool (for small jobs. I have two. One standard and one has the nose filed down for tight areas).
Pneumatic Rivet Tool
Pro-Snip or Weiss Cutters (left hand)
Pro-Snip or Weiss Cutters (right hand)
Pro-Snip or Weiss Cutters (straight)
Clecos: 400@ 3/32
Clecos: 400@ 1/8
Clecos: 50@ 3/16
Clecos Side Clamp: 6 @ 1/2
Clecos Side Clamp: 6@ 1
Spring Clamps (various sizes)
90 Degree Drill (Tight Fit Drill Kit)
Digital Level 24" (SmartTool)
Digital Level 48" (SmartTool)
Rivet Spacer
Edge Marker Block
Dimple Tool
Pull Rivet Dimplers: 3/32
Pull Rivet Dimplers: 1/8
Fluting Pliers (plier type)
Fluting Pliers (vice grip type)
Stretcher/Shrinker
Drill Press
Drill Bits (#30, #40, #11)
Unibit Drill Bits
Drill Stops (#30, #40, #11)
Microstop Countersink Tool
Calipers
Band Saw
Electric Screwdriver, Black & Decker
Deburr Bit (for above screwdriver)
Two-way Debur Tool
Universal Deburring Tool
Chip Chaser
Center Punch
Strap Duplicators
Vixen File (GOOD quality)
Flat Bastard File (GOOD quality)
Ignition file set
File Card
Electronic Scale (for proportioning ProSeal)
Wood dowel with hole in ends to push rivets into holes (for 1/8 and 3/16 rivets)
Rubber head mallets
"Clip-on, flip down" magnifying glasses
Drill Doctor
Basic hand tools (tape measuring, scale, hammers etc.)
Years ago while working on my last project, I purchased almost everything exclusively from Aircraft Spruce. Nowadays with the business competition environment and tight money, it pays (literally) to shop around.
Here are some suppliers I conjured up (I know there are more, but I didn

Getting started

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:13 pm
by Mike Kimball
Tools that I have found very useful:

You have to fabricate parts a lot more than I thought before I started, versus having nicely prepared kit parts. Especially gussets. The following two tools are invaluable. The disk sander will be used thousands of times to round all the corners that you will want to round off. Saves a huge amount of time over using a hand file.
6" or larger bench/disk sander.
Bench band saw. Use a small toothed wood cutting blade instead of a metal cutting blade. Doesn't load up with melted aluminum.

You'll want a rotary tool like a Dremel. Most common accessories will be sanding disks and cut-off wheels.
Air shear. Man, I can't believe I waited so long to get one! Same comment on Unibits. Sears sells their own version of a Unibit too.
I would not buy a rivet gun for the main spars if I had it to do over again. Instead, I would buy a good rivet squeezer with a deep channel so the whole main spar can be reached. This is the only place where solid rivets are used and the squeezer does a much nicer job on the solid rivets. Since it's just a big flat piece there's no access problems for the rivets.
I've found that 30cc syringes are an ideal way to get a 2 to 1 mix of however much chromate I need for whatever part is ready.

Don't forget to get some wooden dowel - about a half inch diameter is what I use. Drill a little hole in the end big enough for the 3/16 rivet mandrels to fit in. Use the dowel to help push stubborn rivets into the holes.

Of course, all of the stuff listed in Terry's email as well. Make sure you have plenty of long drill bits. #30 and #40 6 inches and 12 inches. And a 12 inch #10 or 11 too. (Although MAM recommends using a #11 for 3/16 holes, many references show #10, are easier to get the rivet in, and is still fine. I may get some debate on this. Your choice.) You break the #40 12 inch bits pretty easily since they are kind of "floppy", but they can be the only way to get your hole drilled sometimes.

You will absolutely need a close quarter 90 degree drill attachment. I can't remember where I got mine but it might have been ATS. I know I didn't pay the $168 bucks Aircraft Spruce wants for their kit.

I bought a shrinker/stretcher and used it a couple of times, but I wouldn't get one if I had to do it over again. It's not used enough to warrant the cost. However, my buddy has a tool that I have borrowed that was really nifty for straightening flanges. It's a plier like tool with three tines on one side and two tines on the other side that intertwine when squeezed. It works great for taking out ripples in flanges and I don't know how I would have angled the upper firewall flange to match the angle of the upper instrument panel deck where they meet without it. I don't even know what you call this tool.

Mike Kimball
SR#044

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Trevor Philbrick
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:39 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Getting started




Hello all, future rebel builder here just looking for a little advice. I'm awaiting delivery of tail kit 725R next week and am in need of aquiring some tools in addition to the basic kit (ie pneumatic riveter and drill). Any suggestions on makes/ models and additional tools. Also would appreciate any leads on publications/ web sites to help get the courage to drill that first hole. Thanks in advance.
Trevor Philbrick 725R

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Getting started

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:13 pm
by rickhm
I agree with everything said by others but would add an attachment for a Drum sander. Mine was $20 and can be purchased at Home Depot. The kit is an attachment for a drill. It allows for sanding the rough edgeds of rounded holes. I would also get a de-buring tool (may have been mentioned). Real handy and easy to use. $10 at Home depot as well.

R. Muller
SR 70
On Wed, 5 Jun 2002 15:45:17 -0800 Mike Kimball <mkimball@gci.net> wrote:






Tools
that I have found very useful:

Getting started

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:13 pm
by GM
I see some pretty extensive lists of tools. Don't panic, a lot of them are nice to have and can save a lot of time, but you don't need to spend thousands of dollars to get started. Check with other builders in your area or the local EAA chapter. You may be able to borrow or rent some that you will only need once or for a short time (like 4 or 5 hundred clecoes to put the wing skins on)
Top time savers from my list are a small bench sander for smoothing edges and a "3M light deburring wheel" for your bench grinder. (it's dangerous to grind aluminium on a grinder or to use a wire wheel)
Radio Shack sells a cheap nibbling tool that is very handy.
Have fun!

Getting started

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:13 pm
by Murray & Carol
Hello Trevor

Well congratulations, your getting started.This is a great site to help all of us along the way.Will look forward to hearing from you and will help out when I can.

Welcome aboard

Murray Cherkas
REBEL 505
C-GKNN

Getting started

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:13 pm
by Warren Montgomery
All the previous recomendations are excellent, I've bought basically any tool that looks useful even if I only need it once. A few I couldn't do without that I didn't see mentioned..

Cleaveland tool has these
Offset aviation snips. Don't waste money on non offset!!
6" - 3M Deburring wheels, one med, one fine mounted on bench grinder.
Chatterless deburing bits with hex shaft.

Torque wrenchs,
0-250 in lb
30-100 ft lb

Get them calibrated.
My expensive in lb wrench was out by +/- 5%
My cheap 10 dollar Taiwan ft lb one was within 1%

Bolt In lb ft lb
AN 3 20-25
AN 4 50-70
AN 5 100-140
AN 6 160-190
AN 7 37.7-41.6
AN 8 48.3-57.5
AN 9 66.6-83.3
AN 10 91.6-108.3

Warren


Others
Vosburgh edge formers
hole duplicators







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Getting started

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:13 pm
by klehman
Exactly! Most of the listed tools are timesavers but not essential.

That 6" deburring wheel from Cleveland tool can sure save a lot of
effort after you've already become accomplished at small part filing and
scotch briting of edges. ;)

Most any drill will do but if you want an air drill, the little Taylor
1/4" unit is a little faster (2800rpm), lighter, smaller, a little more
money than a cheap import, and much less noisy than any other air drill
I've used. Drawback is that it starts fairly quickly but it's great for
drilling out those punched holes to #30.

I've had good luck with a cheap pneumatic rivet puller from Princess
Auto/ Northern Hydraulics/JCWhitney. Unlike a drill, the rivet pullers
will run off most any small air compressor. Lots of other tool comments
in the archives.

You may wish to take a look at Wray's construction manual at
http://wrayt.tripod.com/

Ken
GM wrote:
I see some pretty extensive lists of tools. Don't panic, a lot of
them are nice to have and can save a lot of time, but you don't need
to spend thousands of dollars to get started. Check with other
builders in your area or the local EAA chapter. You may be able to
borrow or rent some that you will only need once or for a short time
(like 4 or 5 hundred clecoes to put the wing skins on)
Top time savers from my list are a small bench sander for smoothing
edges and a "3M light deburring wheel" for your bench grinder.



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Getting started

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:13 pm
by Drew Dalgleish
Hi Trevor Welcome aboard. Terry has a good list all I can think of right
off the top of my head is a few 5/32" clecoes and rivets. If you're
anything like me you'll misdrill a few holes and it's proper practice to
just go up to the next size rivet. Instead of #40 drills I use 3/32"
they're usually cheaper and you can buy them anywhere.
Drew Dalgleish
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Getting started

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:13 pm
by Legeorgen
Hi Trevor,

Welcome aboard. I can see you got a lot of great advice on tools and techniques for starting your project. Don't feel like you have to rush out and buy everything at once, unless you just have the cash and want a shop all complete for aircraft assemble and construction to complete your pride. I know that feeling.

Buying the stuff as you find need of it helps your pocket book. You may not find a need for some of these tools right away or for a year or two depending.

While you're waiting for your kit to arrive, do your self a favor and buy Tony Bingelis's Three books "Firewall Forward" and "Aircraft construction Technique's." Start reading them know. The books come all in one three pack for about $80.00 US and they will be the best tool investment will buy. Tony's books are acknowledged to be the Bible of the experimental aircraft industry.

Blue skies and tail winds,
Bruce G 357R

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Getting started

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:13 pm
by Ralph Baker
In addition to the previously mentioned items I would get a Sioux 1/4" 3600 rpm air drill with the lightweight air hose from Cleaveland Tools. Their air pull riveter is also excellent. I previously wore out another brand and then bought one that wouldn't pull a hair out of your nose. The Cleaveland continues to work great. Their # 1-800-368-1822.

When you get a disk sander I suggest one with an associated belt sander which can be set up vertical. I use the belt much more than the disc.

When you build your table I suggest using birch plywood for the top, putting screw adjusters in the legs and adding some extra bracing and a shelf under the table. Also, make a frame from 2 x 4s with a bottom, middle, and top shelf using the shipping crate (or other shelving) for a material rack.

Enjoy building,
Ralph Baker
Elite 624E (reserved)