Hi Wayne !
I know rates have skyrocketted, but the good thing about
Bill Cameron, and Rhodes & Williams, is that Bill searches ALL
available insurers for the best deal for each individual ....
.... and rates can vary considerably, depending on experience,
ratings, and the length of time you've been insured with the same
company. Maybe I do a bit better, because I fly all of the different
Murphy models somewhat regularly, or maybe because I have met with some
of the folks personally, in the re-insurance company offices, and also
because I'm still trying hard to stay "the 2nd highest-time Rebel
pilot in the world" !! ;-) :-) :-)
You are absolutely correct in your advice !! Apparently
what WAS "standard wording" on policies pretty much went out the
window after Sept. 11th, and now <every> company seems to have some
little 'weasel clause' that that lets them lower rates by taking
something away from the buyer !! Several people have mentioned
things like 'no liability coverage outside Canada', and, as you
mention, 'different write-off levels', and there's no question
that coverage is getting harder to obtain, and conditions tougher !
I absolutely agree that there are VERY FEW of us who can
stand the devastation of the wreck of our Rebels, AND the financial
loss as well !! I strongly recommend full in-flight coverage for
AT LEAST the first year !! I did that, and then just KEPT ON
doing it, because, each spring, I asked myself "Can I afford to
throw away $100,000, AND still come up with ANOTHER $100,000 to
replace what I've lost ??!!!!"
Don't kid yourselves, guys - those aircraft you've built
are worth A HECK OF A LOT MORE than you might think they are, if
you had to replace them tomorrow !!! Heck, the kits themselves
have gone up OVER $$$ Ten Thousand $$ already, in just 10 years !!
Under-insuring can cost you your airplane !!! Wayne and I both
know of people who tried to save a buck this way, and ended up
losing either way ...
Just for fun, try to buy a Rebel with an O-320, on amphibs !
I have heard of one gentleman who went down the line at Oshkosh,
offering each builder $85,000 to $95,000 US for his Rebel - they
ALL turned him down flat !! And I know of a man in Florida who
rejected $110,000 US for HIS Rebel - he said "I'd just have to
build another one, so why sell !!"
That's not to say there aren't bargains out there, but if
you had to replace your prize right now, it might not be easy !!
Just ask Wayne - he hasn't been able to find any 'homeless' Rebels
to rebuild for months !! ;-)
....bobp
----------------------------------orig.------------------------------
At 09:13 PM 5/22/02 -0400, you wrote:
Bob, the insurance #'s that I quoted (at 5.25% of value) on FOKM for last
June, to this June, were through Bill at Rhodes and Williams, and
underwritten by Global Aerospace. I also know that Global pays out if you
have an "incident", as that was the underwriter for the Rebel I rebuilt last
spring. No problems getting paid for the work I did and the total bill for
me, salvage costs, the engine/prop inspections, adjuster fees, etc was
pretty steep (around $40G's). I was a little concerned when I got cheque
#003 from them though!!!
The days of 3 to 4% on Amphibs are long gone, I believe, for full in-flight.
Even when I was bothering to do so, on my Rebel on Wheels, I was paying
about 4.5% +PLPD + Passenger coverage.
Currently about 1.75% of value just for tie down hull coverage (NOT in
motion) on a float/amphib aircraft, plus liability and passenger coverage.
But your right!! A very small price to pay, even if it is $6000/year, if you
#$&* up big time (or even sink it as they usually wreck her pretty good by
the time they get it out of the drink)! And make sure you don't under insure
it, because by the time you get onto a set of Amphibs, with a nice paint
job, panel and fresh O-320, the minimum you likely have into your "toy" is
$85,000.00 to $90,000.00CDN in parts. If you have an accident and require
parts and the labour to fix it (they will ask for an unbiased estimate), by
the time you add up the parts and the labour bill they will declare it a
total loss if you undervalue it and possibly even if you go full value + a
bit for your labour. SO be careful and give it some thought before you put a
value on your airplane for insurance purposes.
And you're right, ask for the fine print BEFORE signing with a company.
Global pays full face value less salvage costs less your deductible (at
least the policy I have in front of me states that!). That is they will
cover up to the full declared hull value, less the salvage costs and the
deductible. If your repair estimate goes over that amount they will call it
a total loss, cut you a cheque and take your airplane. Some like the AVEMCO
policy I had on my C182 state that when the "repair" costs reach only 70% of
the face value of your policy they will write you a cheque for the declared
value less the deductible and take your airplane. This one will leave you in
the hole BIG TIME! Some others I have seen state 80%. Check these things out
carefully or you may be paying a lot of money for less coverage than you
really think you have.
Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <
bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: <
murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: logging float time
Hi Drew !
As I understand it, the insurance company is concerned with
ALL time flying an AMPHIB-EQUIPPED aircraft - so ALL time counts
as amphib time, regardless of where you land and take off !!
It IS important to log the number of water takeoff and
landings, though, to meet the recency/currency requirements ...
Insurance can be VERY hard to get if you don't already have
some float time - it is possible to get full coverage for training
in your own Rebel, though. I found they wouldn't give ANY insurance -
not even liability - without a minimum of 25 (TWENTY-FIVE !!) HOURS
of DUAL on AMPHIBS !! (No problem with straight floats, only amphibs !)
I always advise everybody to "insure it to the ears for the
first year" !! It's bad enough if you bend it and have the psychological
loss, but you really don't need the financial loss too !!
Full in-flight hull coverage isn't THAT expensive, typically
about 3 - 4 % of value, and sure makes for peace of mind over that
rough northern terrain between lakes ...
....bobp
PS
Several Rebel builders, including me, get good insurance
coverage through Bill Cameron at Rhodes & Williams, (905) 513-7600.
He has arranged preferred rates for Rebels, and coverage for low-time
builders that others turned down. Read those other policies carefully -
I've heard that some Canadian policies do NOT give liability coverage
if you fly to the U.S. !!
----------------------------------orig.-----------------------------------
At 10:45 AM 5/22/02 -0400, you wrote:
With a little luck and a lot of work my rebel may just make it onto
amphib
floats this year. I've got very little time on floats and I'd like to log
as much as I can to satisfy the insurance company. So what gets logged as
float time? Do you have to take off and land on water or does taking off
on
land and landing in water or vica versa constitute a float flight? Or
just
because the plane could land on water does everything get logged as float
time?
Drew Dalgleish
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