The Murphy Builders Site

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:08 pm**

Hi all,

Somehow the tank rivets supplied with my SR kit don't
seem long enough for the main spar? There is the
leading edge, tank skin, and spar flange to go
through.

Any thoughts?

-Jason

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Jason Beall
Super Rebel No. 131
Aberdeen, Scotland, UK
super_rebel131@yahoo.com

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:08 pm**

Hmmmm.

I don't seem to have that problem.

Oh, yes. I forgot.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Beall" <super_rebel131@yahoo.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 4:06 PM
Subject: tank rivets

Hi all,

Somehow the tank rivets supplied with my SR kit don't
seem long enough for the main spar? There is the
leading edge, tank skin, and spar flange to go
through.

Any thoughts?

-Jason

=====
________________________________________________

Jason Beall
Super Rebel No. 131
Aberdeen, Scotland, UK
super_rebel131@yahoo.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
http://launch.yahoo.com

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:08 pm**

Don't know about the SR but my Rebel came with 6403 (3/16"grip) rivets
for the tanks and shorter 6402 (1/8"grip) rivets for the floats. That
was several years ago. The short ones were easier to proseal in the ribs
and stringers. THe long ones were needed in the spar.
Ken

Bill Delcambre wrote:

Hmmmm.
I don't seem to have that problem.
Oh, yes. I forgot.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Beall" <super_rebel131@yahoo.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 4:06 PM
Subject: tank rivets

Hi all,
Somehow the tank rivets supplied with my SR kit don't
seem long enough for the main spar? There is the
leading edge, tank skin, and spar flange to go
through.

Any thoughts?

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:07 pm**

Hi,

I've started the wing assembly and am having a problem with the tank rivets. About every third rivet the mandrel breaks off about a half inch from the end leaving about an inch sticking out of the rivet. The ones that do this seem to be set the same as the ones that break off normally. Doesn't matter if I pull them by hand or use the rivet gun.

Anybody had this problem? Besides just cutting of the mandrel and filing smooth any suggestions?

Thanks in advance,

Allen Poulsen
786R

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:07 pm**

Generally only see about half a dozen or so do this in an entire tank. I've
found the pressure needs to be down around 45/50psi on the rivet gun so they
pull slow. Anything higher brings a higher breakage rate (and cracks the
solid part of the rivet). Considering you're even breaking them pulling by
hand.......sounds odd.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "apoulsen" <apoulsen@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 7:44 PM
Subject: Tank rivets

Hi,

I've started the wing assembly and am having a problem with the tank

rivets. About every third rivet the mandrel breaks off about a half inch
from the end leaving about an inch sticking out of the rivet. The ones that
do this seem to be set the same as the ones that break off normally. Doesn't
matter if I pull them by hand or use the rivet gun.

Anybody had this problem? Besides just cutting of the mandrel and filing

smooth any suggestions?

Thanks in advance,

Allen Poulsen
786R

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:07 pm**

To add to that...they will also break more often if you are trying to grip
an area thicker than they are designed for..as the shop head forms too
early.... before the prenotched stem area to break comes free of the forming
area.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: Tank rivets

Generally only see about half a dozen or so do this in an entire tank.

I've

found the pressure needs to be down around 45/50psi on the rivet gun so

they

pull slow. Anything higher brings a higher breakage rate (and cracks the
solid part of the rivet). Considering you're even breaking them pulling by
hand.......sounds odd.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "apoulsen" <apoulsen@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 7:44 PM
Subject: Tank rivets

Hi,

I've started the wing assembly and am having a problem with the tank
rivets. About every third rivet the mandrel breaks off about a half inch
from the end leaving about an inch sticking out of the rivet. The ones

that

do this seem to be set the same as the ones that break off normally.

Doesn't

matter if I pull them by hand or use the rivet gun.
Anybody had this problem? Besides just cutting of the mandrel and filing
smooth any suggestions?
Thanks in advance,

Allen Poulsen
786R

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:07 pm**

Wayne,

What do you do with them when they break off. Do you consider it properly
set or drill them out?

Allen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: Tank rivets

To add to that...they will also break more often if you are trying to grip
an area thicker than they are designed for..as the shop head forms too
early.... before the prenotched stem area to break comes free of the
forming
area.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: Tank rivets

Generally only see about half a dozen or so do this in an entire tank.
I've
found the pressure needs to be down around 45/50psi on the rivet gun so
they
pull slow. Anything higher brings a higher breakage rate (and cracks the
solid part of the rivet). Considering you're even breaking them pulling
by
hand.......sounds odd.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "apoulsen" <apoulsen@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 7:44 PM
Subject: Tank rivets

Hi,

I've started the wing assembly and am having a problem with the tank
rivets. About every third rivet the mandrel breaks off about a half inch
from the end leaving about an inch sticking out of the rivet. The ones
that
do this seem to be set the same as the ones that break off normally.
Doesn't
matter if I pull them by hand or use the rivet gun.
Anybody had this problem? Besides just cutting of the mandrel and
filing
smooth any suggestions?
Thanks in advance,

Allen Poulsen
786R

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:07 pm**

I agree with Wayne. I had about 6 per tank do that.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: Tank rivets

To add to that...they will also break more often if you are trying to grip
an area thicker than they are designed for..as the shop head forms too
early.... before the prenotched stem area to break comes free of the
forming
area.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: Tank rivets

Generally only see about half a dozen or so do this in an entire tank.
I've
found the pressure needs to be down around 45/50psi on the rivet gun so
they
pull slow. Anything higher brings a higher breakage rate (and cracks the
solid part of the rivet). Considering you're even breaking them pulling
by
hand.......sounds odd.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "apoulsen" <apoulsen@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 7:44 PM
Subject: Tank rivets

Hi,

I've started the wing assembly and am having a problem with the tank
rivets. About every third rivet the mandrel breaks off about a half inch
from the end leaving about an inch sticking out of the rivet. The ones
that
do this seem to be set the same as the ones that break off normally.
Doesn't
matter if I pull them by hand or use the rivet gun.
Anybody had this problem? Besides just cutting of the mandrel and
filing
smooth any suggestions?
Thanks in advance,

Allen Poulsen
786R

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:07 pm**

I was thinking how lucky I was not to have any bad rivets on my tanks when
I remembered I don't have any tank rivets in my tanks. :-0 I had about 50
bad stems on my floats. Often it was from not having the rivet puller
square to the work. I replaced all the ones with bad stems cuz it seemed
like the right thing to do plus I didn't want to look at a little rust spot
a few years from now.

At 08:28 PM 11/2/2005 -0700, you wrote:

Yeah, having a bunch of bad stems would get old. I should probably call or
email and see if they checked into further, the guys that are getting that
leaky tank fix kit are already pretty frustrated so getting the bad stems
wouldn't help. Although it really was not a big deal once I knew they were
pulling fully, just zip them off.

Scott
Moose 174

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
G. O'Shea
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 8:19 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Tank rivets

Well I hope the full boxes I have are good ones Scott. I'm about to start a
marathon for these of about 17,500 of them, between my f-n-laws new float
chines and bottoms and a set of 1800 amphibs!

And yes..I just use the fiber wheel on my dremel to clean the long ones off.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Aldrich" <sa@mwutah.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 10:13 PM
Subject: RE: Tank rivets

On my Moose leaky tank fix kit the Darryl sent out well over half - that
is
250 plus rivets did this! Doesn't make any difference how you pull, hand
pull, low pressure, slow pull there is just something wrong with the stem.

I tested as you did and decided they are pulling fully - just a bad batch
of
stems. Talked with Robin and decided to press on. Sent them pictures and
he said they would test them. Never heard another word - but I didn't
follow up either. I just went back with a Dremel tool and zipped them
right
off.

Pictures here of a cover with 20 plus rivets stems sticking out, go to
bottom of page. If you have dialup it may take awhile to get to bottom of
page.

http://www.goflyamoose.com/wings.htm

Scott
Moose 174

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Betti
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 6:43 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Tank rivets

I agree with Wayne. I had about 6 per tank do that.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: Tank rivets

To add to that...they will also break more often if you are trying to
grip
an area thicker than they are designed for..as the shop head forms too
early.... before the prenotched stem area to break comes free of the
forming
area.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: Tank rivets

I've they
the
inch
that Doesn't

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Drew

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:07 pm**

Makes me wonder about the source of the problem rivets?
I have had zero problems with the rivets from Mattic or directly from
Textron although I do always use a regulator adjusted to no more air
pressure than it takes to snap the mandrel. No problems inserting the
rivet, no premature broken mandrels, no split tank rivets. Now that I
think about it there may have been one or two stainless ones that were
used in thick material (near the rated grip length) that had the mandrel
stem fall out the back side. I haven't started the floats yet...
Ken

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:07 pm**

I had a whole bunch of them do this as well. I also concluded that they
were set fine and just cut the mandrels off after a few choice words about
the manufacturer.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Scott
Aldrich
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 6:13 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Tank rivets

On my Moose leaky tank fix kit the Darryl sent out well over half - that is
250 plus rivets did this! Doesn't make any difference how you pull, hand
pull, low pressure, slow pull there is just something wrong with the stem.

I tested as you did and decided they are pulling fully - just a bad batch of
stems. Talked with Robin and decided to press on. Sent them pictures and
he said they would test them. Never heard another word - but I didn't
follow up either. I just went back with a Dremel tool and zipped them right
off.

Pictures here of a cover with 20 plus rivets stems sticking out, go to
bottom of page. If you have dialup it may take awhile to get to bottom of
page.

http://www.goflyamoose.com/wings.htm

Scott
Moose 174

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Betti
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 6:43 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Tank rivets

I agree with Wayne. I had about 6 per tank do that.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: Tank rivets

To add to that...they will also break more often if you are trying to grip
an area thicker than they are designed for..as the shop head forms too
early.... before the prenotched stem area to break comes free of the
forming
area.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: Tank rivets

Generally only see about half a dozen or so do this in an entire tank.
I've
found the pressure needs to be down around 45/50psi on the rivet gun so
they
pull slow. Anything higher brings a higher breakage rate (and cracks the
solid part of the rivet). Considering you're even breaking them pulling
by
hand.......sounds odd.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "apoulsen" <apoulsen@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 7:44 PM
Subject: Tank rivets

Hi,

I've started the wing assembly and am having a problem with the tank
rivets. About every third rivet the mandrel breaks off about a half inch
from the end leaving about an inch sticking out of the rivet. The ones
that
do this seem to be set the same as the ones that break off normally.
Doesn't
matter if I pull them by hand or use the rivet gun.
Anybody had this problem? Besides just cutting of the mandrel and
filing
smooth any suggestions?
Thanks in advance,

Allen Poulsen
786R

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:07 pm**

Yeah, having a bunch of bad stems would get old. I should probably call or
email and see if they checked into further, the guys that are getting that
leaky tank fix kit are already pretty frustrated so getting the bad stems
wouldn't help. Although it really was not a big deal once I knew they were
pulling fully, just zip them off.

Scott
Moose 174

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
G. O'Shea
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 8:19 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Tank rivets

Well I hope the full boxes I have are good ones Scott. I'm about to start a
marathon for these of about 17,500 of them, between my f-n-laws new float
chines and bottoms and a set of 1800 amphibs!

And yes..I just use the fiber wheel on my dremel to clean the long ones off.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Aldrich" <sa@mwutah.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 10:13 PM
Subject: RE: Tank rivets

On my Moose leaky tank fix kit the Darryl sent out well over half - that

is

250 plus rivets did this! Doesn't make any difference how you pull, hand
pull, low pressure, slow pull there is just something wrong with the stem.

I tested as you did and decided they are pulling fully - just a bad batch

of

stems. Talked with Robin and decided to press on. Sent them pictures and
he said they would test them. Never heard another word - but I didn't
follow up either. I just went back with a Dremel tool and zipped them

right

off.

Pictures here of a cover with 20 plus rivets stems sticking out, go to
bottom of page. If you have dialup it may take awhile to get to bottom of
page.

http://www.goflyamoose.com/wings.htm

Scott
Moose 174

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Betti
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 6:43 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Tank rivets

I agree with Wayne. I had about 6 per tank do that.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: Tank rivets

To add to that...they will also break more often if you are trying to

grip

an area thicker than they are designed for..as the shop head forms too
early.... before the prenotched stem area to break comes free of the
forming
area.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: Tank rivets

Generally only see about half a dozen or so do this in an entire tank.
I've
found the pressure needs to be down around 45/50psi on the rivet gun so
they
pull slow. Anything higher brings a higher breakage rate (and cracks

the

solid part of the rivet). Considering you're even breaking them pulling
by
hand.......sounds odd.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "apoulsen" <apoulsen@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 7:44 PM
Subject: Tank rivets

rivets. About every third rivet the mandrel breaks off about a half

inch

from the end leaving about an inch sticking out of the rivet. The ones
that
do this seem to be set the same as the ones that break off normally.
Doesn't
matter if I pull them by hand or use the rivet gun. smooth any suggestions?

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:07 pm**

On my Moose leaky tank fix kit the Darryl sent out well over half - that is
250 plus rivets did this! Doesn't make any difference how you pull, hand
pull, low pressure, slow pull there is just something wrong with the stem.

I tested as you did and decided they are pulling fully - just a bad batch of
stems. Talked with Robin and decided to press on. Sent them pictures and
he said they would test them. Never heard another word - but I didn't
follow up either. I just went back with a Dremel tool and zipped them right
off.

Pictures here of a cover with 20 plus rivets stems sticking out, go to
bottom of page. If you have dialup it may take awhile to get to bottom of
page.

http://www.goflyamoose.com/wings.htm

Scott
Moose 174

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Betti
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 6:43 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Tank rivets

I agree with Wayne. I had about 6 per tank do that.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: Tank rivets

To add to that...they will also break more often if you are trying to grip
an area thicker than they are designed for..as the shop head forms too
early.... before the prenotched stem area to break comes free of the
forming
area.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: Tank rivets

Generally only see about half a dozen or so do this in an entire tank.
I've
found the pressure needs to be down around 45/50psi on the rivet gun so
they
pull slow. Anything higher brings a higher breakage rate (and cracks the
solid part of the rivet). Considering you're even breaking them pulling
by
hand.......sounds odd.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "apoulsen" <apoulsen@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 7:44 PM
Subject: Tank rivets

Hi,

I've started the wing assembly and am having a problem with the tank
rivets. About every third rivet the mandrel breaks off about a half inch
from the end leaving about an inch sticking out of the rivet. The ones
that
do this seem to be set the same as the ones that break off normally.
Doesn't
matter if I pull them by hand or use the rivet gun.
Anybody had this problem? Besides just cutting of the mandrel and
filing
smooth any suggestions?
Thanks in advance,

Allen Poulsen
786R

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:07 pm**

Well I hope the full boxes I have are good ones Scott. I'm about to start a
marathon for these of about 17,500 of them, between my f-n-laws new float
chines and bottoms and a set of 1800 amphibs!

And yes..I just use the fiber wheel on my dremel to clean the long ones off.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Aldrich" <sa@mwutah.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 10:13 PM
Subject: RE: Tank rivets

On my Moose leaky tank fix kit the Darryl sent out well over half - that

is

250 plus rivets did this! Doesn't make any difference how you pull, hand
pull, low pressure, slow pull there is just something wrong with the stem.

I tested as you did and decided they are pulling fully - just a bad batch

of

stems. Talked with Robin and decided to press on. Sent them pictures and
he said they would test them. Never heard another word - but I didn't
follow up either. I just went back with a Dremel tool and zipped them

right

off.

Pictures here of a cover with 20 plus rivets stems sticking out, go to
bottom of page. If you have dialup it may take awhile to get to bottom of
page.

http://www.goflyamoose.com/wings.htm

Scott
Moose 174

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Betti
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 6:43 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Tank rivets

I agree with Wayne. I had about 6 per tank do that.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: Tank rivets

To add to that...they will also break more often if you are trying to

grip

an area thicker than they are designed for..as the shop head forms too
early.... before the prenotched stem area to break comes free of the
forming
area.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: Tank rivets

Generally only see about half a dozen or so do this in an entire tank.
I've
found the pressure needs to be down around 45/50psi on the rivet gun so
they
pull slow. Anything higher brings a higher breakage rate (and cracks

the

solid part of the rivet). Considering you're even breaking them pulling
by
hand.......sounds odd.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "apoulsen" <apoulsen@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 7:44 PM
Subject: Tank rivets

rivets. About every third rivet the mandrel breaks off about a half

inch

from the end leaving about an inch sticking out of the rivet. The ones
that
do this seem to be set the same as the ones that break off normally.
Doesn't
matter if I pull them by hand or use the rivet gun. smooth any suggestions?

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:52 am**

Keith,
You can use flush rivets (RV1412) in the tank as long as you are absolutely positive to seal them with ProSeal so they don't leak past the mandrel. Also, all rivets in the tanks are dipped in ProSeal at installation. Pull them as slowly as you can.
Ralph Baker

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