The Murphy Builders Site

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:47 pm**

Thanks Bob,
I agree with you on the Thorp cowl. I have nothing against the speed cowl,
but I sure like the wide open view of the engine compartment that my
Cherokee has and the T-18 looks like a good way to go. I didn't know you
could switch engine to a dynafocal. The 150 hp is my engine of choice for
all of th reasons you mention. We definately think alike in this area. The
O-320-A3A that I am looking at is a narrow deck engine. I think Lycoming
switched over to wide deck a little later. Anything I should be wary of
here?

Should I be looking for

From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
Reply-To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Lycoming O-320 Conicl Mount
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 17:08:29 -0500

Hi Chuck !

Probably not a bad bet ! The conical mount engines can be
changed to Dynafocal fairly easily, if you want, but it should fit
right in. The O-320 mounts are the same as the O-235 mounts, so
that shouldn't be a problem either.

The speed cowl might be a problem - I understand there are
a couple of variants with different carb positions, and a couple
of different engine mounts to match up ...

If you're thinking floats, I would strongly recommend
using the "standard" cowl - it's MUCH easier to work on from floats.
You could use the Thorp T-18 nose bowl from Aircraft Spruce - it
is a bit sexier than the MAM Piper-style bowl. The advantage of the
aluminum cowl is that you can make it with double side hinges, so
you can have easy access to the whole engine by pulling two piano
hinge pins - it swings open top & bottom, and you aren't left holding
a large piece of fiberglass like the 'speed cowl' ....

The 150 hp. engines are first choice for floats, as they
are able to run regular car gas, which is about all you'll find
at most marinas. The 160 hp are higher compression, and need 100 LL....
Most of the Rebels up here run the 150 hp. O-320 for floats.

.....bobp

--------------------------------orig.-----------------------------------
At 05:04 PM 2/14/02 -0800, you wrote:
I have a chance to get a Lycoming O-320-A3A 150 hp engine. It is a
conical
mount configuration. Has anyone tried to use one of these or similar on
a
Rebel? I understand the speed cowling may not work. It also includes a
prop governor so I could go to a variable pitch prop. I am building an
Elite taildragger with eventual float configuration and can tolerate a
little more weight forward. Any cautions out there in Rebel-land?

- Chuck Skorupa -
Rebel Elite SN 500E

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:47 pm**

I was surprised the first time I saw a "converted" Lycoming -
all they do is saw off the conical mounts and grind the case
down to provide a flat area for the Dynafocal rubbers to sit on !!!!!

The narrow decks weren't quite as strong - check carefully
for cracks in the case..... not a big problem. That's about all
I can think of to watch for. It is generally accepted that a set
of cylinders will not run past about 5,000 hours without major
cracks in the heads, around the plugs. This is between the second
and third 'run-out' timewise, so that's always something to watch
for. If you need new jugs, there are 3rd party products that are
more sturdy than Lycoming factory new..... Cracks in the heads
and corrosion in the cylinders, or on the camshaft, are the 'biggies'
to watch for on any engine.

I think there's a picture of Rick H's Rebel, in Australia,
with the Thorp nosebowl, in the archives somewhere. It was also
featured recently in Sport Aviation. If Wayne still has PFT up
there, he might be able to post a couple of shots of the cowling
on it - the best I've seen for access !

Hope your engine is relatively low time, and has no problems !!

.....bobp

-------------------------------------orig.----------------------------
At 06:32 PM 2/15/02 -0800, you wrote:

Thanks Bob,
I agree with you on the Thorp cowl. I have nothing against the speed cowl,
but I sure like the wide open view of the engine compartment that my
Cherokee has and the T-18 looks like a good way to go. I didn't know you
could switch engine to a dynafocal. The 150 hp is my engine of choice for
all of th reasons you mention. We definately think alike in this area. The
O-320-A3A that I am looking at is a narrow deck engine. I think Lycoming
switched over to wide deck a little later. Anything I should be wary of
here?

Should I be looking for

From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
Reply-To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Lycoming O-320 Conicl Mount
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 17:08:29 -0500

Hi Chuck !

Probably not a bad bet ! The conical mount engines can be
changed to Dynafocal fairly easily, if you want, but it should fit
right in. The O-320 mounts are the same as the O-235 mounts, so
that shouldn't be a problem either.

The speed cowl might be a problem - I understand there are
a couple of variants with different carb positions, and a couple
of different engine mounts to match up ...

If you're thinking floats, I would strongly recommend
using the "standard" cowl - it's MUCH easier to work on from floats.
You could use the Thorp T-18 nose bowl from Aircraft Spruce - it
is a bit sexier than the MAM Piper-style bowl. The advantage of the
aluminum cowl is that you can make it with double side hinges, so
you can have easy access to the whole engine by pulling two piano
hinge pins - it swings open top & bottom, and you aren't left holding
a large piece of fiberglass like the 'speed cowl' ....

The 150 hp. engines are first choice for floats, as they
are able to run regular car gas, which is about all you'll find
at most marinas. The 160 hp are higher compression, and need 100 LL....
Most of the Rebels up here run the 150 hp. O-320 for floats.

.....bobp

--------------------------------orig.-----------------------------------
At 05:04 PM 2/14/02 -0800, you wrote:
I have a chance to get a Lycoming O-320-A3A 150 hp engine. It is a
conical
mount configuration. Has anyone tried to use one of these or similar on
a
Rebel? I understand the speed cowling may not work. It also includes a
prop governor so I could go to a variable pitch prop. I am building an
Elite taildragger with eventual float configuration and can tolerate a
little more weight forward. Any cautions out there in Rebel-land?

- Chuck Skorupa -
Rebel Elite SN 500E

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:47 pm**

Bob (or anyone else),
Has anyone split the T-18 nosebowl. It is a pain to have to remove the prop
on my Piper Cherokee to get complete access.

- Chuck Skorupa -
Elite SN 500E (taildragger)
<<snip>>>

I think there's a picture of Rick H's Rebel, in Australia,
with the Thorp nosebowl, in the archives somewhere. It was also
featured recently in Sport Aviation. If Wayne still has PFT up
there, he might be able to post a couple of shots of the cowling
on it - the best I've seen for access !

Hope your engine is relatively low time, and has no problems !!

.....bobp

<<<Snip>>

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:47 pm**

I don't know of anyone - but, you do have a hacksaw,
don't you ??? ;-) ;-)

.....bobp

--------------------------------------orig.---------------------------
At 07:42 PM 2/15/02 -0800, you wrote:

Bob (or anyone else),
Has anyone split the T-18 nosebowl. It is a pain to have to remove the prop
on my Piper Cherokee to get complete access.

- Chuck Skorupa -
Elite SN 500E (taildragger)
<<snip>>>
I think there's a picture of Rick H's Rebel, in Australia,
with the Thorp nosebowl, in the archives somewhere. It was also
featured recently in Sport Aviation. If Wayne still has PFT up
there, he might be able to post a couple of shots of the cowling
on it - the best I've seen for access !

Hope your engine is relatively low time, and has no problems !!

.....bobp

<<<Snip>>

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:47 pm**

In a message dated 2/15/02 9:42:55 PM Central Standard Time, c_skorupa@hotmail.com writes:

Bob (or anyone else),
Has anyone split the T-18 nosebowl. It is a pain to have to remove the prop
on my Piper Cherokee to get complete access.

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:47 pm**

What Bob's saying is definitely fact! The Rebel I shipped off to Maui had an
engine in it that was originally a conical O-235-C 108 H.P. engine. It had
been upgraded by Canadian Aero to a 118HP -LC2 with higher compression
pistons, etc, and had the conical "ears" cutoff and the case faced and
drilled for the dynafocal mounting (you didn't really think Lycoming paid
for new casting moulds did you!!??). I would just stick with the conical
mount the way it is. Rubbers are cheaper and the motor doesn't move around
as much. I know this extra movement is supposed to reduce the noise and
vibration in the airframe, but I haven't seen much difference and I've flown
them both numerous times.

As for Wide deck, narrow deck arguement, as long as you get a good engine to
start with I don't see it as an issue. I'm flying behind a narrow deck with
the "internal hex" nuts and cylinder plates. The oldest O-320's don't even
have the plates and for the amount of time we weekend warriors put on an
airplane in a year I don't think it's an issue!

As for cowls, if I have some time over the weekend I will see if I can take
some shots. I think my personal cowling is a step up from PFT's, but I have
both here so I will look them over and take some shots of both. FPT is still
in the marine container, awaiting repairs, so it might be tight to take the
shots but I'll see what I can do!

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 10:21 PM
Subject: Re: Lycoming O-320 Conical Mount

I was surprised the first time I saw a "converted" Lycoming -
all they do is saw off the conical mounts and grind the case
down to provide a flat area for the Dynafocal rubbers to sit on !!!!!

The narrow decks weren't quite as strong - check carefully
for cracks in the case..... not a big problem. That's about all
I can think of to watch for. It is generally accepted that a set
of cylinders will not run past about 5,000 hours without major
cracks in the heads, around the plugs. This is between the second
and third 'run-out' timewise, so that's always something to watch
for. If you need new jugs, there are 3rd party products that are
more sturdy than Lycoming factory new..... Cracks in the heads
and corrosion in the cylinders, or on the camshaft, are the 'biggies'
to watch for on any engine.

I think there's a picture of Rick H's Rebel, in Australia,
with the Thorp nosebowl, in the archives somewhere. It was also
featured recently in Sport Aviation. If Wayne still has PFT up
there, he might be able to post a couple of shots of the cowling
on it - the best I've seen for access !

Hope your engine is relatively low time, and has no problems !!

.....bobp

-------------------------------------orig.----------------------------
At 06:32 PM 2/15/02 -0800, you wrote:
Thanks Bob,
I agree with you on the Thorp cowl. I have nothing against the speed

cowl,

but I sure like the wide open view of the engine compartment that my
Cherokee has and the T-18 looks like a good way to go. I didn't know you
could switch engine to a dynafocal. The 150 hp is my engine of choice

for

all of th reasons you mention. We definately think alike in this area.

The

O-320-A3A that I am looking at is a narrow deck engine. I think Lycoming
switched over to wide deck a little later. Anything I should be wary of
here?

Should I be looking for

From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
Reply-To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Lycoming O-320 Conicl Mount
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 17:08:29 -0500

Hi Chuck !

Probably not a bad bet ! The conical mount engines can be
changed to Dynafocal fairly easily, if you want, but it should fit
right in. The O-320 mounts are the same as the O-235 mounts, so
that shouldn't be a problem either.

The speed cowl might be a problem - I understand there are
a couple of variants with different carb positions, and a couple
of different engine mounts to match up ...

If you're thinking floats, I would strongly recommend
using the "standard" cowl - it's MUCH easier to work on from floats.
You could use the Thorp T-18 nose bowl from Aircraft Spruce - it
is a bit sexier than the MAM Piper-style bowl. The advantage of the
aluminum cowl is that you can make it with double side hinges, so
you can have easy access to the whole engine by pulling two piano
hinge pins - it swings open top & bottom, and you aren't left holding
a large piece of fiberglass like the 'speed cowl' ....

The 150 hp. engines are first choice for floats, as they
are able to run regular car gas, which is about all you'll find
at most marinas. The 160 hp are higher compression, and need 100 LL....
Most of the Rebels up here run the 150 hp. O-320 for floats.

.....bobp

--------------------------------orig.-----------------------------------
At 05:04 PM 2/14/02 -0800, you wrote: conical

on

a

a

an

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:47 pm**

My light bulb just lit! I can't take pictures of FPT's cowling as I don't
have it! George removed the engine and cowling prior to me picking up his
airframe for repair.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 11:38 PM
Subject: Re: Lycoming O-320 Conical Mount

What Bob's saying is definitely fact! The Rebel I shipped off to Maui had

an

engine in it that was originally a conical O-235-C 108 H.P. engine. It had
been upgraded by Canadian Aero to a 118HP -LC2 with higher compression
pistons, etc, and had the conical "ears" cutoff and the case faced and
drilled for the dynafocal mounting (you didn't really think Lycoming paid
for new casting moulds did you!!??). I would just stick with the conical
mount the way it is. Rubbers are cheaper and the motor doesn't move around
as much. I know this extra movement is supposed to reduce the noise and
vibration in the airframe, but I haven't seen much difference and I've

flown

them both numerous times.

As for Wide deck, narrow deck arguement, as long as you get a good engine

to

start with I don't see it as an issue. I'm flying behind a narrow deck

with

the "internal hex" nuts and cylinder plates. The oldest O-320's don't even
have the plates and for the amount of time we weekend warriors put on an
airplane in a year I don't think it's an issue!

As for cowls, if I have some time over the weekend I will see if I can

take

some shots. I think my personal cowling is a step up from PFT's, but I

have

both here so I will look them over and take some shots of both. FPT is

still

in the marine container, awaiting repairs, so it might be tight to take

the

shots but I'll see what I can do!

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 10:21 PM
Subject: Re: Lycoming O-320 Conical Mount

I was surprised the first time I saw a "converted" Lycoming -
all they do is saw off the conical mounts and grind the case
down to provide a flat area for the Dynafocal rubbers to sit on !!!!!

The narrow decks weren't quite as strong - check carefully
for cracks in the case..... not a big problem. That's about all
I can think of to watch for. It is generally accepted that a set
of cylinders will not run past about 5,000 hours without major
cracks in the heads, around the plugs. This is between the second
and third 'run-out' timewise, so that's always something to watch
for. If you need new jugs, there are 3rd party products that are
more sturdy than Lycoming factory new..... Cracks in the heads
and corrosion in the cylinders, or on the camshaft, are the 'biggies'
to watch for on any engine.

I think there's a picture of Rick H's Rebel, in Australia,
with the Thorp nosebowl, in the archives somewhere. It was also
featured recently in Sport Aviation. If Wayne still has PFT up
there, he might be able to post a couple of shots of the cowling
on it - the best I've seen for access !

Hope your engine is relatively low time, and has no problems !!

.....bobp

-------------------------------------orig.----------------------------
At 06:32 PM 2/15/02 -0800, you wrote:
Thanks Bob,
I agree with you on the Thorp cowl. I have nothing against the speed
cowl,
but I sure like the wide open view of the engine compartment that my
Cherokee has and the T-18 looks like a good way to go. I didn't know

you

could switch engine to a dynafocal. The 150 hp is my engine of choice
for
all of th reasons you mention. We definately think alike in this area.
The
O-320-A3A that I am looking at is a narrow deck engine. I think

Lycoming

switched over to wide deck a little later. Anything I should be wary

of

here?

Should I be looking for

LL....

--------------------------------orig.-----------------------------------

similar

on

includes

a
an

a

itself

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:47 pm**

Wayne's right about the vibration damping - I've never noticed
any difference between the mounts when flying. The huge (1" or more !!)
movements of the engine on the Dynafocals might actually CAUSE
problems - there's a lot of extra flex on fuel lines, oil lines,
primer lines, wiring .... and even some possibility of damage
to the cowling ! I've seen scuffs from spinners touching, and
I worry about the side loads on the carburetor air box if it's
too tight a fit (needs rubber seals for flex).

Given that the conical Lord Mount rubbers are a lot
cheaper, you might just as well stay with the conical mounts.

....bobp

-------------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 11:38 PM 2/15/02 -0500, you wrote:

What Bob's saying is definitely fact! The Rebel I shipped off to Maui had an
engine in it that was originally a conical O-235-C 108 H.P. engine. It had
been upgraded by Canadian Aero to a 118HP -LC2 with higher compression
pistons, etc, and had the conical "ears" cutoff and the case faced and
drilled for the dynafocal mounting (you didn't really think Lycoming paid
for new casting moulds did you!!??). I would just stick with the conical
mount the way it is. Rubbers are cheaper and the motor doesn't move around
as much. I know this extra movement is supposed to reduce the noise and
vibration in the airframe, but I haven't seen much difference and I've flown
them both numerous times.

As for Wide deck, narrow deck arguement, as long as you get a good engine to
start with I don't see it as an issue. I'm flying behind a narrow deck with
the "internal hex" nuts and cylinder plates. The oldest O-320's don't even
have the plates and for the amount of time we weekend warriors put on an
airplane in a year I don't think it's an issue!

As for cowls, if I have some time over the weekend I will see if I can take
some shots. I think my personal cowling is a step up from PFT's, but I have
both here so I will look them over and take some shots of both. FPT is still
in the marine container, awaiting repairs, so it might be tight to take the
shots but I'll see what I can do!

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 10:21 PM
Subject: Re: Lycoming O-320 Conical Mount

I was surprised the first time I saw a "converted" Lycoming -
all they do is saw off the conical mounts and grind the case
down to provide a flat area for the Dynafocal rubbers to sit on !!!!!

The narrow decks weren't quite as strong - check carefully
for cracks in the case..... not a big problem. That's about all
I can think of to watch for. It is generally accepted that a set
of cylinders will not run past about 5,000 hours without major
cracks in the heads, around the plugs. This is between the second
and third 'run-out' timewise, so that's always something to watch
for. If you need new jugs, there are 3rd party products that are
more sturdy than Lycoming factory new..... Cracks in the heads
and corrosion in the cylinders, or on the camshaft, are the 'biggies'
to watch for on any engine.

I think there's a picture of Rick H's Rebel, in Australia,
with the Thorp nosebowl, in the archives somewhere. It was also
featured recently in Sport Aviation. If Wayne still has PFT up
there, he might be able to post a couple of shots of the cowling
on it - the best I've seen for access !

Hope your engine is relatively low time, and has no problems !!

.....bobp

-------------------------------------orig.----------------------------
At 06:32 PM 2/15/02 -0800, you wrote:
Thanks Bob,
I agree with you on the Thorp cowl. I have nothing against the speed
cowl,
but I sure like the wide open view of the engine compartment that my
Cherokee has and the T-18 looks like a good way to go. I didn't know you
could switch engine to a dynafocal. The 150 hp is my engine of choice
for
all of th reasons you mention. We definately think alike in this area.
The
O-320-A3A that I am looking at is a narrow deck engine. I think Lycoming
switched over to wide deck a little later. Anything I should be wary of
here?

Should I be looking for

on
a
an
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