The Murphy Builders Site

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:47 pm**

I will be preparing to paint my plane in a few months, when it warms up, then
reassemble it, wire a few avionics and I can hardly wait!

There has been a lot of talk about fresh air systems lately, not to mention
the need to cover up completely with long sleeves, gloves and goggles. I
don't like the health risks of using the two part polyurethane. I am not
willing to risk my health for the ultimate paint job. And I hear that the
polyurethane's are impossible to touch up.

I have seen some pretty nice "wet look" paint jobs done with two part acrylic
enamels. Do the enamels last long and hold up well to the sun and gas? What
are their draw backs compared to the polyurethane's? I understand the enamels
are easier to apply. Is the paint thicker? Does it weigh more? Any comments
from you knowledgeable paint experts?

Bruce G

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:47 pm**

Hi Bruce !

I'm no expert, but I've used the 2 part enamel on the last Rebel,
and I'll be using it on this one too - likely in another week or 2.

It certainly is no heavier than the urethane, and isn't porous
(or at least not AS porous !). It stands up well to fuel, sun, and
wear. I thought it was the best choice for my needs - it does have
a nice shine, and washes up easily. Weight increase should be in the
25 -35 lb range, and most of that is aft, which helps the CofG. :-)

I am insisting on one particular type, though - it's R-M brand.
This is a professional automotive paint, not sold in regular stores,
but any professional painter can get it. The particular LINE within
the R-M brand that I use is now called "UNA". This is a high-solid
2 part paint with strong colour and good coverage. When used with
a good etch and prime job, it should last at least as long as the
polyurethanes....

Paint cost should be about $900 CDN - or possibly less...
I like to get at least an <extra> half-pint of each colour to keep
for later touch-ups - it guarantees that it will be the same colour.
(they sometimes change formulas over the years at the factory ..)

Don't remember if I've u/l'd a photo of the last Rebel,
but will have a dig & send it if I haven't already - it's yellow
with red trim. I swore I'd never have another white airplane again -
I owned 2, and, with winters up here, if you got frost on the wings,
you had to wait 'til July to fly again !!! The yellow has enough
colour to melt the ice, and not so much that it gets to egg-frying
in the summer. :-) These days, there are several "shades"
of off-white that have enough gray or cream in them that they
will melt ice too, so you can still have that contrast if you
want - I just chose yellow & red for increased visibility ...

....bobp

----------------------------------orig.------------------------------------
At 09:45 PM 2/10/02 EST, you wrote:

I will be preparing to paint my plane in a few months, when it warms up, then
reassemble it, wire a few avionics and I can hardly wait!

There has been a lot of talk about fresh air systems lately, not to mention
the need to cover up completely with long sleeves, gloves and goggles. I
don't like the health risks of using the two part polyurethane. I am not
willing to risk my health for the ultimate paint job. And I hear that the
polyurethane's are impossible to touch up.

I have seen some pretty nice "wet look" paint jobs done with two part acrylic
enamels. Do the enamels last long and hold up well to the sun and gas? What
are their draw backs compared to the polyurethane's? I understand the enamels
are easier to apply. Is the paint thicker? Does it weigh more? Any comments
from you knowledgeable paint experts?

Bruce G

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:47 pm**

Bob! I have a picture of it sitting here under the tree after it went
through the "shop". Will post it to Rebel "aircraft" section in a couple
minutes!

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 10:11 PM
Subject: Re: Painting your plane

Hi Bruce !

I'm no expert, but I've used the 2 part enamel on the last Rebel,
and I'll be using it on this one too - likely in another week or 2.

It certainly is no heavier than the urethane, and isn't porous
(or at least not AS porous !). It stands up well to fuel, sun, and
wear. I thought it was the best choice for my needs - it does have
a nice shine, and washes up easily. Weight increase should be in the
25 -35 lb range, and most of that is aft, which helps the CofG. :-)

I am insisting on one particular type, though - it's R-M brand.
This is a professional automotive paint, not sold in regular stores,
but any professional painter can get it. The particular LINE within
the R-M brand that I use is now called "UNA". This is a high-solid
2 part paint with strong colour and good coverage. When used with
a good etch and prime job, it should last at least as long as the
polyurethanes....

Paint cost should be about $900 CDN - or possibly less...
I like to get at least an <extra> half-pint of each colour to keep
for later touch-ups - it guarantees that it will be the same colour.
(they sometimes change formulas over the years at the factory ..)

Don't remember if I've u/l'd a photo of the last Rebel,
but will have a dig & send it if I haven't already - it's yellow
with red trim. I swore I'd never have another white airplane again -
I owned 2, and, with winters up here, if you got frost on the wings,
you had to wait 'til July to fly again !!! The yellow has enough
colour to melt the ice, and not so much that it gets to egg-frying
in the summer. :-) These days, there are several "shades"
of off-white that have enough gray or cream in them that they
will melt ice too, so you can still have that contrast if you
want - I just chose yellow & red for increased visibility ...

....bobp

----------------------------------orig.-----------------------------------

-

At 09:45 PM 2/10/02 EST, you wrote:
I will be preparing to paint my plane in a few months, when it warms up,

then

reassemble it, wire a few avionics and I can hardly wait!

There has been a lot of talk about fresh air systems lately, not to

mention

the need to cover up completely with long sleeves, gloves and goggles. I
don't like the health risks of using the two part polyurethane. I am not
willing to risk my health for the ultimate paint job. And I hear that the
polyurethane's are impossible to touch up.

I have seen some pretty nice "wet look" paint jobs done with two part

acrylic

enamels. Do the enamels last long and hold up well to the sun and gas?

What

are their draw backs compared to the polyurethane's? I understand the

enamels

are easier to apply. Is the paint thicker? Does it weigh more? Any

comments

from you knowledgeable paint experts?

Bruce G

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:47 pm**

I have uploaded 4 pictures of FOKM to the Rebel Aircraft section. 2 on
floats, one "hanger flying" and one on wheels. Great paint scheme for not
only frost burn off, but it will show up in any situation for search and
rescue (other than a mustard crop field!)

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 10:16 PM
Subject: Re: Painting your plane

Bob! I have a picture of it sitting here under the tree after it went
through the "shop". Will post it to Rebel "aircraft" section in a couple
minutes!

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 10:11 PM
Subject: Re: Painting your plane

Hi Bruce !

I'm no expert, but I've used the 2 part enamel on the last

Rebel,

and I'll be using it on this one too - likely in another week or 2.

It certainly is no heavier than the urethane, and isn't porous
(or at least not AS porous !). It stands up well to fuel, sun, and
wear. I thought it was the best choice for my needs - it does have
a nice shine, and washes up easily. Weight increase should be in the
25 -35 lb range, and most of that is aft, which helps the CofG. :-)

I am insisting on one particular type, though - it's R-M brand.
This is a professional automotive paint, not sold in regular stores,
but any professional painter can get it. The particular LINE within
the R-M brand that I use is now called "UNA". This is a high-solid
2 part paint with strong colour and good coverage. When used with
a good etch and prime job, it should last at least as long as the
polyurethanes....

Paint cost should be about $900 CDN - or possibly less...
I like to get at least an <extra> half-pint of each colour to keep
for later touch-ups - it guarantees that it will be the same colour.
(they sometimes change formulas over the years at the factory ..)

Don't remember if I've u/l'd a photo of the last Rebel,
but will have a dig & send it if I haven't already - it's yellow
with red trim. I swore I'd never have another white airplane again -
I owned 2, and, with winters up here, if you got frost on the wings,
you had to wait 'til July to fly again !!! The yellow has enough
colour to melt the ice, and not so much that it gets to egg-frying
in the summer. :-) These days, there are several "shades"
of off-white that have enough gray or cream in them that they
will melt ice too, so you can still have that contrast if you
want - I just chose yellow & red for increased visibility ...

....bobp

----------------------------------orig.-----------------------------------
-
At 09:45 PM 2/10/02 EST, you wrote:
I will be preparing to paint my plane in a few months, when it warms

up,

then
reassemble it, wire a few avionics and I can hardly wait!

There has been a lot of talk about fresh air systems lately, not to
mention
the need to cover up completely with long sleeves, gloves and goggles.

I

don't like the health risks of using the two part polyurethane. I am

not

willing to risk my health for the ultimate paint job. And I hear that

the

polyurethane's are impossible to touch up.

I have seen some pretty nice "wet look" paint jobs done with two part
acrylic
enamels. Do the enamels last long and hold up well to the sun and gas?
What
are their draw backs compared to the polyurethane's? I understand the
enamels
are easier to apply. Is the paint thicker? Does it weigh more? Any
comments
from you knowledgeable paint experts?

Bruce G

** To unsubscribe, send e-mail to list-server@dcsol.com with
**
** UNSUBSCRIBE MURPHY-REBEL in the message body on a line by itself
**
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**
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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:47 pm**

Just a couple of comments on the paint issue.

I spoke to a tech support person about the porosity story and he said there was no
basis to it. Of course as with anything, you have to decide what is right for
you. FWIW, we decided to go with a PU system from Dupont starting with a chromate
bearing etching primer and their PU topcoat. The big thing to remember is to pick
one paint company and one paint "system" and don't mix & match if you want the
paint to stay on. Bob is right when he says the latest thing in automotive
acrylic enamel paints is a good choice, if it stands up in the auto business it is
pretty robust.

Keep in mind that the acrylic enamels are still catalyzed paints so they are
isocyanates and you do not want to treat them lightly. Use a fresh air system.
To get the full picture talk to your local autobody supply jobber or the factory
support rep, they will fill you in on the correct precautions.

Bob, you have a great point on non-white wings, we will have to keep that in mind
when we design our color scheme.

Dave R.

Bob Patterson wrote:

Hi Bruce !

I'm no expert, but I've used the 2 part enamel on the last Rebel,
and I'll be using it on this one too - likely in another week or 2.

It certainly is no heavier than the urethane, and isn't porous
(or at least not AS porous !). It stands up well to fuel, sun, and
wear. I thought it was the best choice for my needs - it does have
a nice shine, and washes up easily. Weight increase should be in the
25 -35 lb range, and most of that is aft, which helps the CofG. :-)

I am insisting on one particular type, though - it's R-M brand.
This is a professional automotive paint, not sold in regular stores,
but any professional painter can get it. The particular LINE within
the R-M brand that I use is now called "UNA". This is a high-solid
2 part paint with strong colour and good coverage. When used with
a good etch and prime job, it should last at least as long as the
polyurethanes....

Paint cost should be about $900 CDN - or possibly less...
I like to get at least an <extra> half-pint of each colour to keep
for later touch-ups - it guarantees that it will be the same colour.
(they sometimes change formulas over the years at the factory ..)

Don't remember if I've u/l'd a photo of the last Rebel,
but will have a dig & send it if I haven't already - it's yellow
with red trim. I swore I'd never have another white airplane again -
I owned 2, and, with winters up here, if you got frost on the wings,
you had to wait 'til July to fly again !!! The yellow has enough
colour to melt the ice, and not so much that it gets to egg-frying
in the summer. :-) These days, there are several "shades"
of off-white that have enough gray or cream in them that they
will melt ice too, so you can still have that contrast if you
want - I just chose yellow & red for increased visibility ...

....bobp

----------------------------------orig.------------------------------------
At 09:45 PM 2/10/02 EST, you wrote:
I will be preparing to paint my plane in a few months, when it warms up, then
reassemble it, wire a few avionics and I can hardly wait!

There has been a lot of talk about fresh air systems lately, not to mention
the need to cover up completely with long sleeves, gloves and goggles. I
don't like the health risks of using the two part polyurethane. I am not
willing to risk my health for the ultimate paint job. And I hear that the
polyurethane's are impossible to touch up.

I have seen some pretty nice "wet look" paint jobs done with two part acrylic
enamels. Do the enamels last long and hold up well to the sun and gas? What
are their draw backs compared to the polyurethane's? I understand the enamels
are easier to apply. Is the paint thicker? Does it weigh more? Any comments
from you knowledgeable paint experts?

Bruce G

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:47 pm**

No no no
According to my inquiries, just because a paint is catalysed does not
mean it uses isocyanates. Check it carefully, but there are certainly
non-isocyanate paints available.
Ken

Keep in mind that the acrylic enamels are still catalyzed paints so they are
isocyanates and you do not want to treat them lightly. Use a fresh air system.
To get the full picture talk to your local autobody supply jobber or the factory
support rep, they will fill you in on the correct precautions.

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:47 pm**

OK, I was thinking of the Dupont Centari I used on my car recently and rolled them all
together. The packaging of the hardner clearly states it is an isocyanate and to take
the necessary precautions. As I said though, talk to your supplier tech rep. to find
out what precautions to use, better safe than sorry.

Dave R.

klehman wrote:

No no no
According to my inquiries, just because a paint is catalysed does not
mean it uses isocyanates. Check it carefully, but there are certainly
non-isocyanate paints available.
Ken

Keep in mind that the acrylic enamels are still catalyzed paints so they are
isocyanates and you do not want to treat them lightly. Use a fresh air system.
To get the full picture talk to your local autobody supply jobber or the factory
support rep, they will fill you in on the correct precautions.
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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:47 pm**

Bob,

Thanks for the input on the enamel paints. There is a professional paint
store in my town where I have been buy some primer. I will check them out
tomorrow.

Bruce G

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:47 pm**

Thanks Wayne for posting the pics of Bob's plane and paint job...Bruce G

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:47 pm**

David,

Are all two part paints isocynates? I was hoping to avoid them with the
acrylic enamel.

Bruce G

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:47 pm**

Anytime! I have THOUSANDs of pictures of Rebels and the SR going together,
and also the Rebel in many finished versions. Someday when I get this SR3500
finished and flying, I just may produce a CD with all the pictures I have
taken in the last 9 years for a step by step, pictures worth a thousand
words version of a manual.

Actually C-FOKM (who's markings are not only a registration, but also an
attitude!!!) is now John MacMillan's Rebel. It was Bob's and then Leah's
after our swap of aircraft. Then it was totally torn apart, wings upgrossed
to be a 1650 model like the current kit and a fresh O-320 put on the nose,
as well as many other things before I sold it to John.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <Legeorgen@cs.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: Painting your plane

Thanks Wayne for posting the pics of Bob's plane and paint job...Bruce G

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