The Murphy Builders Site

About the same as the odds of a nylon insert nut falling off when installed
right side up (basically NIL), BUT Canadian inspectors won't allow them
upside down and will make you use a drilled bolt, castle nut and cotter
pin!! (AND some of them might make you do that anyway on a hinge bolt, no
matter which way it's installed!!!)

Also as I have just worked on the rudder in place to cut out the the rear
fin spar for 25* either way thing. It might be "fun" trying to put a bolt in
upside down. It was fun enough today getting them in there in the first
place right side up. I also found with the 3500 upgrade RU-420 gussets on
the horn, that the cut outs needed to be angled out on about a 45* angle so
the angle portion of the RU-420's didn't hit early, even after trimming the
RU-420's back as much as I cared too.

In regards to installing the bolts in the hinges, I found the easiest way to
get the bolts in (after dropping the bolts numerous times using needle nose
pliers and a LOT of swearing), is to use a sandwich bag twist wrap about 8 "
long. Double it, insert the bolt at the folded end and give a half twist.
Gives you a nice 4 " arm to place the bolt, hold it in place and then push
it down into place with a screwdriver or similar. Then just pull he twist
wrap off. I posted a couple pictures of this in SR misc. for the H&** of it!

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Kimball" <mkimball@gci.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 4:22 PM
Subject: RE: Super Rebel RU-413

What are the odds of a nylon insert nut falling off of an upside down

bolt?

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 10:35 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Cc: Brian Godden
Subject: Super Rebel RU-413


Before final tip installation on the SR Rudder it would be wise to drill a
clearance hole in the RU-413, larger than the AN4 bolt's head that needs

to

be installed into the rudder/fin hinges on final assembly. There isn't
enough distance between the top hinge and the lower tip rib (RU-413) to

put

a proper length bolt in from the top (and I sure don't like them upside
down). The hole allows the bolt's head to be swung up into the hole and

then

dropped down into the hinge hole. The hole is centered and 7/8" out from

the

flange to match the hinge distance. I used a 13/16" hole, for no other
reason than, to allow for lots of room to install the bolt. It's not like
it's going to let the Bees get into it any easier than they already can!

I have uploaded a picture to the tail feathers section of the SR, if you
need a clearer explanation!

Cheers,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca



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Twisty idea is good. I'll try that. I've been using medical hemostats
which also works pretty good. Basically very thin needle nose pliers that
hold onto the bolt by themselves. Of course they're all bent up now, but
they still do the job for me. I'm sure all the builders that are far along
already know this, but for the benefit of new builders I'll mention that the
bolt holes in parts supplied by MAM with the bolt hole already apparently
drilled should have an appropriate bit run through them before installation.
Holes that look like they are already 1/4 or 3/16 inch are close, but you
can't get a bolt through the hole until you run a bit through it. I found
this to be true on hinge attaches, all the little steel tangs for control
cables, and other stuff. I found out too late for my ailerons and flaps
which have the hinges buried inside the leading edges. Now I have a real
challenge getting the #$@! bolts through the holes! Haven't figured out
what I am going to do with that yet. Maybe I'll have to get a five foot
long bit and run it through from one end to the other!

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 2:55 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Super Rebel RU-413/bolt installation & orientation


About the same as the odds of a nylon insert nut falling off when installed
right side up (basically NIL), BUT Canadian inspectors won't allow them
upside down and will make you use a drilled bolt, castle nut and cotter
pin!! (AND some of them might make you do that anyway on a hinge bolt, no
matter which way it's installed!!!)

Also as I have just worked on the rudder in place to cut out the the rear
fin spar for 25* either way thing. It might be "fun" trying to put a bolt in
upside down. It was fun enough today getting them in there in the first
place right side up. I also found with the 3500 upgrade RU-420 gussets on
the horn, that the cut outs needed to be angled out on about a 45* angle so
the angle portion of the RU-420's didn't hit early, even after trimming the
RU-420's back as much as I cared too.

In regards to installing the bolts in the hinges, I found the easiest way to
get the bolts in (after dropping the bolts numerous times using needle nose
pliers and a LOT of swearing), is to use a sandwich bag twist wrap about 8 "
long. Double it, insert the bolt at the folded end and give a half twist.
Gives you a nice 4 " arm to place the bolt, hold it in place and then push
it down into place with a screwdriver or similar. Then just pull he twist
wrap off. I posted a couple pictures of this in SR misc. for the H&** of it!

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Kimball" <mkimball@gci.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 4:22 PM
Subject: RE: Super Rebel RU-413

What are the odds of a nylon insert nut falling off of an upside down

bolt?

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 10:35 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Cc: Brian Godden
Subject: Super Rebel RU-413


Before final tip installation on the SR Rudder it would be wise to drill a
clearance hole in the RU-413, larger than the AN4 bolt's head that needs

to

be installed into the rudder/fin hinges on final assembly. There isn't
enough distance between the top hinge and the lower tip rib (RU-413) to

put

a proper length bolt in from the top (and I sure don't like them upside
down). The hole allows the bolt's head to be swung up into the hole and

then

dropped down into the hinge hole. The hole is centered and 7/8" out from

the

flange to match the hinge distance. I used a 13/16" hole, for no other
reason than, to allow for lots of room to install the bolt. It's not like
it's going to let the Bees get into it any easier than they already can!

I have uploaded a picture to the tail feathers section of the SR, if you
need a clearer explanation!

Cheers,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca



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Mike, are there any alarm system installers near you? They may have exactly
that. A 5' or 6' installation bit that may just be had in 1/4" or 3/8"
diameter for a quick usage!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Kimball" <mkimball@gci.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 8:26 PM
Subject: RE: Super Rebel RU-413/bolt installation & orientation

Twisty idea is good. I'll try that. I've been using medical hemostats
which also works pretty good. Basically very thin needle nose pliers that
hold onto the bolt by themselves. Of course they're all bent up now, but
they still do the job for me. I'm sure all the builders that are far

along

already know this, but for the benefit of new builders I'll mention that

the

bolt holes in parts supplied by MAM with the bolt hole already apparently
drilled should have an appropriate bit run through them before

installation.

Holes that look like they are already 1/4 or 3/16 inch are close, but you
can't get a bolt through the hole until you run a bit through it. I found
this to be true on hinge attaches, all the little steel tangs for control
cables, and other stuff. I found out too late for my ailerons and flaps
which have the hinges buried inside the leading edges. Now I have a real
challenge getting the #$@! bolts through the holes! Haven't figured out
what I am going to do with that yet. Maybe I'll have to get a five foot
long bit and run it through from one end to the other!

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 2:55 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Super Rebel RU-413/bolt installation & orientation


About the same as the odds of a nylon insert nut falling off when

installed

right side up (basically NIL), BUT Canadian inspectors won't allow them
upside down and will make you use a drilled bolt, castle nut and cotter
pin!! (AND some of them might make you do that anyway on a hinge bolt, no
matter which way it's installed!!!)

Also as I have just worked on the rudder in place to cut out the the rear
fin spar for 25* either way thing. It might be "fun" trying to put a bolt

in

upside down. It was fun enough today getting them in there in the first
place right side up. I also found with the 3500 upgrade RU-420 gussets on
the horn, that the cut outs needed to be angled out on about a 45* angle

so

the angle portion of the RU-420's didn't hit early, even after trimming

the

RU-420's back as much as I cared too.

In regards to installing the bolts in the hinges, I found the easiest way

to

get the bolts in (after dropping the bolts numerous times using needle

nose

pliers and a LOT of swearing), is to use a sandwich bag twist wrap about 8

"

long. Double it, insert the bolt at the folded end and give a half twist.
Gives you a nice 4 " arm to place the bolt, hold it in place and then push
it down into place with a screwdriver or similar. Then just pull he twist
wrap off. I posted a couple pictures of this in SR misc. for the H&** of

it!

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Kimball" <mkimball@gci.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 4:22 PM
Subject: RE: Super Rebel RU-413

What are the odds of a nylon insert nut falling off of an upside down

bolt?

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 10:35 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Cc: Brian Godden
Subject: Super Rebel RU-413


Before final tip installation on the SR Rudder it would be wise to drill

a

clearance hole in the RU-413, larger than the AN4 bolt's head that needs

to

be installed into the rudder/fin hinges on final assembly. There isn't
enough distance between the top hinge and the lower tip rib (RU-413) to

put

a proper length bolt in from the top (and I sure don't like them upside
down). The hole allows the bolt's head to be swung up into the hole and

then

dropped down into the hinge hole. The hole is centered and 7/8" out from

the

flange to match the hinge distance. I used a 13/16" hole, for no other
reason than, to allow for lots of room to install the bolt. It's not

like

it's going to let the Bees get into it any easier than they already can!

I have uploaded a picture to the tail feathers section of the SR, if you
need a clearer explanation!

Cheers,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca



** To unsubscribe, send e-mail to list-server@dcsol.com with

**

** UNSUBSCRIBE MURPHY-REBEL in the message body on a line by itself

**

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Wayne,

I'll have to try that one. I have done the same thing, to hold a bolt in
place, but used masking tape rapped around a pencil with sticky side out. It
holds the bolt long enough to get it where you want it, then press it with a
screw driver or similar.

Bruce G



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No kiddin'! I'll ask my friend who works for Pinkerton Security if it looks
like that might actually work. I was half kidding myself but maybe it's
actually feasible. Thanks.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 4:46 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Super Rebel RU-413/bolt installation & orientation


Mike, are there any alarm system installers near you? They may have exactly
that. A 5' or 6' installation bit that may just be had in 1/4" or 3/8"
diameter for a quick usage!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Kimball" <mkimball@gci.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 8:26 PM
Subject: RE: Super Rebel RU-413/bolt installation & orientation

Twisty idea is good. I'll try that. I've been using medical hemostats
which also works pretty good. Basically very thin needle nose pliers that
hold onto the bolt by themselves. Of course they're all bent up now, but
they still do the job for me. I'm sure all the builders that are far

along

already know this, but for the benefit of new builders I'll mention that

the

bolt holes in parts supplied by MAM with the bolt hole already apparently
drilled should have an appropriate bit run through them before

installation.

Holes that look like they are already 1/4 or 3/16 inch are close, but you
can't get a bolt through the hole until you run a bit through it. I found
this to be true on hinge attaches, all the little steel tangs for control
cables, and other stuff. I found out too late for my ailerons and flaps
which have the hinges buried inside the leading edges. Now I have a real
challenge getting the #$@! bolts through the holes! Haven't figured out
what I am going to do with that yet. Maybe I'll have to get a five foot
long bit and run it through from one end to the other!

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 2:55 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Super Rebel RU-413/bolt installation & orientation


About the same as the odds of a nylon insert nut falling off when

installed

right side up (basically NIL), BUT Canadian inspectors won't allow them
upside down and will make you use a drilled bolt, castle nut and cotter
pin!! (AND some of them might make you do that anyway on a hinge bolt, no
matter which way it's installed!!!)

Also as I have just worked on the rudder in place to cut out the the rear
fin spar for 25* either way thing. It might be "fun" trying to put a bolt

in

upside down. It was fun enough today getting them in there in the first
place right side up. I also found with the 3500 upgrade RU-420 gussets on
the horn, that the cut outs needed to be angled out on about a 45* angle

so

the angle portion of the RU-420's didn't hit early, even after trimming

the

RU-420's back as much as I cared too.

In regards to installing the bolts in the hinges, I found the easiest way

to

get the bolts in (after dropping the bolts numerous times using needle

nose

pliers and a LOT of swearing), is to use a sandwich bag twist wrap about 8

"

long. Double it, insert the bolt at the folded end and give a half twist.
Gives you a nice 4 " arm to place the bolt, hold it in place and then push
it down into place with a screwdriver or similar. Then just pull he twist
wrap off. I posted a couple pictures of this in SR misc. for the H&** of

it!

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Kimball" <mkimball@gci.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 4:22 PM
Subject: RE: Super Rebel RU-413

What are the odds of a nylon insert nut falling off of an upside down

bolt?

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 10:35 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Cc: Brian Godden
Subject: Super Rebel RU-413


Before final tip installation on the SR Rudder it would be wise to drill

a

clearance hole in the RU-413, larger than the AN4 bolt's head that needs

to

be installed into the rudder/fin hinges on final assembly. There isn't
enough distance between the top hinge and the lower tip rib (RU-413) to

put

a proper length bolt in from the top (and I sure don't like them upside
down). The hole allows the bolt's head to be swung up into the hole and

then

dropped down into the hinge hole. The hole is centered and 7/8" out from

the

flange to match the hinge distance. I used a 13/16" hole, for no other
reason than, to allow for lots of room to install the bolt. It's not

like

it's going to let the Bees get into it any easier than they already can!

I have uploaded a picture to the tail feathers section of the SR, if you
need a clearer explanation!

Cheers,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca



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