The Murphy Builders Site

Although it creates a low point at the base of the rear seat, I am planning
to route my fuel lines down through the inside of the station 5 bulkhead
then forward under the floor to the fuel selector valve, then into the
engine area. I have been told that this is how fuel is routed in a Cessna
180 so I don't think I am breaking new ground here. I was surprised to
discover when inspecting a C-180 in a local hangar that there were no fuel
drains at the low point in the back. I was planning on installing a tee at
the point where my fuel line comes out under the floor and the base of the
rear door post and then I would have a fuel drain on each side of the
fuselage, just behind the rear door post. I was also thinking about putting
in electric boost pumps, one on each side, just after the tee. This would
give me redundancy to the engine driven pump and a means of overcoming any
vapor lock I might encounter. Then, of course, after passing through the
firewall I would go to a gascolator and then to the carb. I was planning on
using aluminum tubing pretty much the whole way. A local IA said with all
aluminum planes even the tubing between the wing root and the fuselage is
often aluminum tubing with a little "S" in the tube to account for small
vibrations/flexing. I haven't decided yet whether to go ahead and rivet the
bulkhead caps on station 5 or screw them on since the fuel tubing will be
inside. Seems like rivets would be stronger and this area needs to be
strong due to the rear wing attach fitting above. But screws would allow
access to the fuel tubing. Of course, if I do it right, I may never need to
access the fuel tubing inside, and if worse comes to worse, I am VERY GOOD
AT DRILLING OUT RIVETS due to extensive hands on experience.

Does anyone know if the semi-flush marine type fuel caps that came with
early kits (i.e., mine, serial #044) are vented? If not, how can I vent
them? I keep hearing about people drilling holes but I'm not sure where to
drill. Especially since my plane will be parked outside. I need to keep
the rain out.

Mike Kimball
SR #044

P.S. Thanks Wayne for the answers to my questions about a fuel selector
with "BOTH" and the cross-venting.




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Mike, if you have gone with the flush caps you can just put an inverted "L"
or "J" tube in the cross vent. Don't go drilling any holes in those flush
caps or the snow is going to melt and leak in to your tanks. Poke the vent
tube up through the wing root fairing, NOT through the top of the cabin like
on an old C170. When their installed on the cabin roof it makes for a hard
place to preflight for bugs etc and a bad place for a leaky tee right above
your head!

I am always amazed at the Cessnas and many others that have no low point
belly drains. The have a sediment drain below the fuel selector valve that
is <supposed> to be serviced every 100 hours (or annually) and drained of
water and dirt. This lack of quick drains seems okay in the certified world
yet the Canadian amateur built rules spell out that there MUST be drains at
the lowest point in the fuel system when the plane is at rest on the ground.
Although they somehow seem to make it through the inspection process without
them, as I installed a set when I rebuilt the underside of the nosed over
Rebel this spring as it had none on it and made it through final inspection
and was flying that way!

And YES, if you can do it, put aluminium lines all the way from your tanks
to the firewall gascolator with NO RUBBER HOSES! You will love yourself for
it and the lack of rubber hose leaks, etc! Also makes wing pulls and
installations nice and simple. Hoses end up getting cut (and replaced) every
time you have to pull a wing otherwise! You know how hard it is to pull a
hose off one of those supplied barbs! If you do use hose at least buy some
proper AN hose barbs that are smooth with a lip on the end. At least with
these you can pop the hose off and reuse. With my tanks (no sight gauges,
but could be done with them also) each outlet has a 90* fitting (substitute
a tee if using sight gauges) on it. Then each line goes rearward to behind
the rear wing attach fitting and then does a 90* in (through the cabin side)
and a 90* down just behind the bulkhead and the lines run down behind the
bulkhead to the corner wrap and then start forward as they go around the
corner wrap and inward across the floor to a low point drain. Then both
lines go forward to floor mounted valves. Then a single line runs up the
center of the cabin floor (buried inside) and to the firewall, gascolator
etc. This was done with only one union mid-point coming down the bulkhead
behind the rear wing attach fittings. Solid pieces of tubing from tank to
the union, union to the belly drain tee, tee to the valve and valve to the
firewalls gascolator fitting. No extra joints to leak other than the
fittings required to do it right. Just the one union in a very accessable
place and if I had of tried a little harder I may have been able to get rid
of it. No problems, leaks, cracks etc, going on 7 years!

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Kimball" <mkimball@gci.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 8:30 PM
Subject: My fuel system plan

Although it creates a low point at the base of the rear seat, I am

planning

to route my fuel lines down through the inside of the station 5 bulkhead
then forward under the floor to the fuel selector valve, then into the
engine area. I have been told that this is how fuel is routed in a Cessna
180 so I don't think I am breaking new ground here. I was surprised to
discover when inspecting a C-180 in a local hangar that there were no fuel
drains at the low point in the back. I was planning on installing a tee

at

the point where my fuel line comes out under the floor and the base of the
rear door post and then I would have a fuel drain on each side of the
fuselage, just behind the rear door post. I was also thinking about

putting

in electric boost pumps, one on each side, just after the tee. This would
give me redundancy to the engine driven pump and a means of overcoming any
vapor lock I might encounter. Then, of course, after passing through the
firewall I would go to a gascolator and then to the carb. I was planning

on

using aluminum tubing pretty much the whole way. A local IA said with all
aluminum planes even the tubing between the wing root and the fuselage is
often aluminum tubing with a little "S" in the tube to account for small
vibrations/flexing. I haven't decided yet whether to go ahead and rivet

the

bulkhead caps on station 5 or screw them on since the fuel tubing will be
inside. Seems like rivets would be stronger and this area needs to be
strong due to the rear wing attach fitting above. But screws would allow
access to the fuel tubing. Of course, if I do it right, I may never need

to

access the fuel tubing inside, and if worse comes to worse, I am VERY GOOD
AT DRILLING OUT RIVETS due to extensive hands on experience.

Does anyone know if the semi-flush marine type fuel caps that came with
early kits (i.e., mine, serial #044) are vented? If not, how can I vent
them? I keep hearing about people drilling holes but I'm not sure where

to

drill. Especially since my plane will be parked outside. I need to keep
the rain out.

Mike Kimball
SR #044

P.S. Thanks Wayne for the answers to my questions about a fuel selector
with "BOTH" and the cross-venting.


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Mike,

For what its worth, my Cessna 177RG has both wing tanks run to a sump in the
floor located under the pilots seat. It is aprox 4"x4"x2"deep. I think it is
an ideal place for a sump as it is the low point in the system. It is also
large enough to catch a reasonable amount of H2O etc. A single line goes
forward to the selector valve which simply has an ON and Off position. Both
tanks feed at the same time (simple fuel management). No left or right
option . I installed a similar system in a CH 701. I plan to do the same in
the SR. There is also a normal gascolator in the engine compartment both are
drained on preflight.

Don Boardman
& Partner
Randy Bowers
SR130 Rome, NY






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Although it creates a low point at the base of the rear seat, I am planning
to route my fuel lines down through the inside of the station 5 bulkhead
then forward under the floor to the fuel selector valve, then into the

Mike, like you, I didn't like the way some Cessnas had a low fuel line
before the gascolator. This may not be workable on your Rebel but I elected
(on my homebuilt 170) to route the lines forward in the wing route then down
the front door post to below the panel level then forward to the firewall. I
mounted a Cessna fuel selector on the back of the firewall with an
extension on the handle so that the knob is in clear view right on the
panel. There is a universal joint (maybe two) on this shaft so that the knob
doesen't have to line up with the valve. The line then goes thru the
firewall at the gascolator. This has worked fine for 18 years.

Aside from low fuel management advantages of a left-right-both setup, I
found one other advantage. My engine needs high octane gas which is not as
available on floats as marina gas. By keeping some high octane for take off,
I could fill one tank with low octane which I would use only in cruise.
Comes in handy sometimes but yes it is risky.
Peter.




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Mike and all, for what it's worth, I ran one piece 3/8 dia. alum. (supplied
with the kit) from the wing root shut-off valves down the rear door edge
following the door sill shape forward on a gradual downward slope to the
firewall and over to the "T" before exiting the firewall to the gasgolator.
This put a one piece line on each side of the aircraft with no joints or
requiring drains. I did come through the wing root from the tank fitting
with proper flexible rubber type fuel line in a gentle curve reward to the
shut-off valve. This clean unobstructed path gave me an unbelievable fuel
flow of 32 imp. gal per hour each side or 50 combined through the gascolator
with only 10 liters in each wing tank at level flight attitude.Simple and
easy to inspect (because they are visible). I uploaded one picture to the
files under Rebel Systems. I can do more if required but the file seemed to
be to big. If someone can tell me how to do the picture loading more
efficiently let me know. Thanks Bob J Rebel "652" Flying




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Sorry Don, but this sounds like a "Really Bad Idea"(tm) - I lost a
very good friend in a post-crash fire because of a header tank
similar to what you describe ! It burst, spraying fuel all over
his legs ....

Keep the fuel out of the cockpit - as much as possible !

.....bobp

--------------------------------orig.----------------------------------

At 09:42 PM 12/17/01 -0500, you wrote:

Mike,

For what its worth, my Cessna 177RG has both wing tanks run to a sump in the
floor located under the pilots seat. It is aprox 4"x4"x2"deep. I think it is
an ideal place for a sump as it is the low point in the system. It is also
large enough to catch a reasonable amount of H2O etc. A single line goes
forward to the selector valve which simply has an ON and Off position. Both
tanks feed at the same time (simple fuel management). No left or right
option . I installed a similar system in a CH 701. I plan to do the same in
the SR. There is also a normal gascolator in the engine compartment both are
drained on preflight.

Don Boardman
& Partner
Randy Bowers
SR130 Rome, NY




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Hi Bobj !

Congratulations on a simple, effective fuel system ! The great
flow rates and the enjoyment you're getting flying your Rebel is
proof enough that it IS a good system !!!

Thanks for the photo - maybe you could add one of each end as
well....

Mike can tell you how to reduce the size of the image file -
I think there's a message in the archives with suggestions. Certainly
if you can get them down to 60K or so, they're a lot quicker to load.
You might need an image editing file - I can find one if you need it.

....bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------------------
At 08:38 AM 12/18/01 -0800, you wrote:

Mike and all, for what it's worth, I ran one piece 3/8 dia. alum. (supplied
with the kit) from the wing root shut-off valves down the rear door edge
following the door sill shape forward on a gradual downward slope to the
firewall and over to the "T" before exiting the firewall to the gasgolator.
This put a one piece line on each side of the aircraft with no joints or
requiring drains. I did come through the wing root from the tank fitting
with proper flexible rubber type fuel line in a gentle curve reward to the
shut-off valve. This clean unobstructed path gave me an unbelievable fuel
flow of 32 imp. gal per hour each side or 50 combined through the gascolator
with only 10 liters in each wing tank at level flight attitude.Simple and
easy to inspect (because they are visible). I uploaded one picture to the
files under Rebel Systems. I can do more if required but the file seemed to
be to big. If someone can tell me how to do the picture loading more
efficiently let me know. Thanks Bob J Rebel "652" Flying


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Very impessive fuel flow Bob. I thought the most a 3/8 line could flow was
about 24 gph. or is that just the minimum acceptable amount? Drew

At 08:38 AM 12/18/2001 -0800, you wrote:

Mike and all, for what it's worth, I ran one piece 3/8 dia. alum. (supplied
with the kit) from the wing root shut-off valves down the rear door edge
following the door sill shape forward on a gradual downward slope to the
firewall and over to the "T" before exiting the firewall to the gasgolator.
This put a one piece line on each side of the aircraft with no joints or
requiring drains. I did come through the wing root from the tank fitting
with proper flexible rubber type fuel line in a gentle curve reward to the
shut-off valve. This clean unobstructed path gave me an unbelievable fuel
flow of 32 imp. gal per hour each side or 50 combined through the gascolator
with only 10 liters in each wing tank at level flight attitude.Simple and
easy to inspect (because they are visible). I uploaded one picture to the
files under Rebel Systems. I can do more if required but the file seemed to
be to big. If someone can tell me how to do the picture loading more
efficiently let me know. Thanks Bob J Rebel "652" Flying


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-----------------------------------------------------





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Thanks Wayne. This sounds like exactly my plan with the exception that I am
going to try and run my fuel lines inside of the bulkhead for a cleaner
installation. Bob P's comment about flow restriction has me rethinking the
installation of boost pumps right after the belly drain tee. I'll have to
see if I can find out more about how much flow I lose with the pumps in the
way when they are not running.

I feel I must admit that I haven't even read ahead far enough in the manual
to see what Murphy tells us to do. I just know that the front door post
area is pretty crowded with aileron cables and pulleys and I don't want to
have to run fuel lines outside of all that where people can grab them trying
to get in or when panicking during spin recovery practice and other
necessary safety maneuvers such as loops and rolls. Whoops. Thinking about
my old Renegade again.

Thanks to everyone else as well for your inputs! Happy holidays everyone.
Hope my family understands when I head to the shop right after opening
presents!

Mike Kimball
SR#044

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 5:36 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: My fuel system plan


Mike, if you have gone with the flush caps you can just put an inverted "L"
or "J" tube in the cross vent. Don't go drilling any holes in those flush
caps or the snow is going to melt and leak in to your tanks. Poke the vent
tube up through the wing root fairing, NOT through the top of the cabin like
on an old C170. When their installed on the cabin roof it makes for a hard
place to preflight for bugs etc and a bad place for a leaky tee right above
your head!

I am always amazed at the Cessnas and many others that have no low point
belly drains. The have a sediment drain below the fuel selector valve that
is <supposed> to be serviced every 100 hours (or annually) and drained of
water and dirt. This lack of quick drains seems okay in the certified world
yet the Canadian amateur built rules spell out that there MUST be drains at
the lowest point in the fuel system when the plane is at rest on the ground.
Although they somehow seem to make it through the inspection process without
them, as I installed a set when I rebuilt the underside of the nosed over
Rebel this spring as it had none on it and made it through final inspection
and was flying that way!

And YES, if you can do it, put aluminium lines all the way from your tanks
to the firewall gascolator with NO RUBBER HOSES! You will love yourself for
it and the lack of rubber hose leaks, etc! Also makes wing pulls and
installations nice and simple. Hoses end up getting cut (and replaced) every
time you have to pull a wing otherwise! You know how hard it is to pull a
hose off one of those supplied barbs! If you do use hose at least buy some
proper AN hose barbs that are smooth with a lip on the end. At least with
these you can pop the hose off and reuse. With my tanks (no sight gauges,
but could be done with them also) each outlet has a 90* fitting (substitute
a tee if using sight gauges) on it. Then each line goes rearward to behind
the rear wing attach fitting and then does a 90* in (through the cabin side)
and a 90* down just behind the bulkhead and the lines run down behind the
bulkhead to the corner wrap and then start forward as they go around the
corner wrap and inward across the floor to a low point drain. Then both
lines go forward to floor mounted valves. Then a single line runs up the
center of the cabin floor (buried inside) and to the firewall, gascolator
etc. This was done with only one union mid-point coming down the bulkhead
behind the rear wing attach fittings. Solid pieces of tubing from tank to
the union, union to the belly drain tee, tee to the valve and valve to the
firewalls gascolator fitting. No extra joints to leak other than the
fittings required to do it right. Just the one union in a very accessable
place and if I had of tried a little harder I may have been able to get rid
of it. No problems, leaks, cracks etc, going on 7 years!

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Kimball" <mkimball@gci.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 8:30 PM
Subject: My fuel system plan

Although it creates a low point at the base of the rear seat, I am

planning

to route my fuel lines down through the inside of the station 5 bulkhead
then forward under the floor to the fuel selector valve, then into the
engine area. I have been told that this is how fuel is routed in a Cessna
180 so I don't think I am breaking new ground here. I was surprised to
discover when inspecting a C-180 in a local hangar that there were no fuel
drains at the low point in the back. I was planning on installing a tee

at

the point where my fuel line comes out under the floor and the base of the
rear door post and then I would have a fuel drain on each side of the
fuselage, just behind the rear door post. I was also thinking about

putting

in electric boost pumps, one on each side, just after the tee. This would
give me redundancy to the engine driven pump and a means of overcoming any
vapor lock I might encounter. Then, of course, after passing through the
firewall I would go to a gascolator and then to the carb. I was planning

on

using aluminum tubing pretty much the whole way. A local IA said with all
aluminum planes even the tubing between the wing root and the fuselage is
often aluminum tubing with a little "S" in the tube to account for small
vibrations/flexing. I haven't decided yet whether to go ahead and rivet

the

bulkhead caps on station 5 or screw them on since the fuel tubing will be
inside. Seems like rivets would be stronger and this area needs to be
strong due to the rear wing attach fitting above. But screws would allow
access to the fuel tubing. Of course, if I do it right, I may never need

to

access the fuel tubing inside, and if worse comes to worse, I am VERY GOOD
AT DRILLING OUT RIVETS due to extensive hands on experience.

Does anyone know if the semi-flush marine type fuel caps that came with
early kits (i.e., mine, serial #044) are vented? If not, how can I vent
them? I keep hearing about people drilling holes but I'm not sure where

to

drill. Especially since my plane will be parked outside. I need to keep
the rain out.

Mike Kimball
SR #044

P.S. Thanks Wayne for the answers to my questions about a fuel selector
with "BOTH" and the cross-venting.


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-----------------------------------------------------------------

Mike, read my reply again and I said "around the corner wrap and across the
floor". Should be more specific as they are all IN the floor. Nothing is
exposed to be dented (read restricted) from loading tools, baggage etc. Even
the line coming down behind the rear door post bulkhead is now hidden by the
headliners side panel. Before the interior panels were installed, only about
14" of tube was visible in the entire installation. There are access panels
on the inner floor to access the drain tees and the floor mounted fuel
valves (2 valves so I can run left or right, or the position they have been
in for 6+ years BOTH) have a removable >recessed< cover that allows the
valves in/out ports to be centered in the 2" deep Rebel bulkheads and still
retain the handles as mfg'd. The recessed cover also gets the valve handles
below floor level so they can't be snagged and gives clearance for the floor
run elevator cables to pass over top.

When you see the climb angle capable with the SR or the Rebel, you will be
glad that you didn't run your fuel lines forward over the front door post!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Kimball" <mkimball@gci.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 11:33 PM
Subject: RE: My fuel system plan

Thanks Wayne. This sounds like exactly my plan with the exception that I

am

going to try and run my fuel lines inside of the bulkhead for a cleaner
installation. Bob P's comment about flow restriction has me rethinking

the

installation of boost pumps right after the belly drain tee. I'll have to
see if I can find out more about how much flow I lose with the pumps in

the

way when they are not running.

I feel I must admit that I haven't even read ahead far enough in the

manual

to see what Murphy tells us to do. I just know that the front door post
area is pretty crowded with aileron cables and pulleys and I don't want to
have to run fuel lines outside of all that where people can grab them

trying

to get in or when panicking during spin recovery practice and other
necessary safety maneuvers such as loops and rolls. Whoops. Thinking

about

my old Renegade again.

Thanks to everyone else as well for your inputs! Happy holidays everyone.
Hope my family understands when I head to the shop right after opening
presents!

Mike Kimball
SR#044

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 5:36 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: My fuel system plan


Mike, if you have gone with the flush caps you can just put an inverted

"L"

or "J" tube in the cross vent. Don't go drilling any holes in those flush
caps or the snow is going to melt and leak in to your tanks. Poke the vent
tube up through the wing root fairing, NOT through the top of the cabin

like

on an old C170. When their installed on the cabin roof it makes for a hard
place to preflight for bugs etc and a bad place for a leaky tee right

above

your head!

I am always amazed at the Cessnas and many others that have no low point
belly drains. The have a sediment drain below the fuel selector valve that
is <supposed> to be serviced every 100 hours (or annually) and drained of
water and dirt. This lack of quick drains seems okay in the certified

world

yet the Canadian amateur built rules spell out that there MUST be drains

at

the lowest point in the fuel system when the plane is at rest on the

ground.

Although they somehow seem to make it through the inspection process

without

them, as I installed a set when I rebuilt the underside of the nosed over
Rebel this spring as it had none on it and made it through final

inspection

and was flying that way!

And YES, if you can do it, put aluminium lines all the way from your tanks
to the firewall gascolator with NO RUBBER HOSES! You will love yourself

for

it and the lack of rubber hose leaks, etc! Also makes wing pulls and
installations nice and simple. Hoses end up getting cut (and replaced)

every

time you have to pull a wing otherwise! You know how hard it is to pull a
hose off one of those supplied barbs! If you do use hose at least buy some
proper AN hose barbs that are smooth with a lip on the end. At least with
these you can pop the hose off and reuse. With my tanks (no sight gauges,
but could be done with them also) each outlet has a 90* fitting

(substitute

a tee if using sight gauges) on it. Then each line goes rearward to behind
the rear wing attach fitting and then does a 90* in (through the cabin

side)

and a 90* down just behind the bulkhead and the lines run down behind the
bulkhead to the corner wrap and then start forward as they go around the
corner wrap and inward across the floor to a low point drain. Then both
lines go forward to floor mounted valves. Then a single line runs up the
center of the cabin floor (buried inside) and to the firewall, gascolator
etc. This was done with only one union mid-point coming down the bulkhead
behind the rear wing attach fittings. Solid pieces of tubing from tank to
the union, union to the belly drain tee, tee to the valve and valve to the
firewalls gascolator fitting. No extra joints to leak other than the
fittings required to do it right. Just the one union in a very accessable
place and if I had of tried a little harder I may have been able to get

rid

of it. No problems, leaks, cracks etc, going on 7 years!

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Kimball" <mkimball@gci.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 8:30 PM
Subject: My fuel system plan

Although it creates a low point at the base of the rear seat, I am

planning

to route my fuel lines down through the inside of the station 5 bulkhead
then forward under the floor to the fuel selector valve, then into the
engine area. I have been told that this is how fuel is routed in a

Cessna

180 so I don't think I am breaking new ground here. I was surprised to
discover when inspecting a C-180 in a local hangar that there were no

fuel

drains at the low point in the back. I was planning on installing a tee

at

the point where my fuel line comes out under the floor and the base of

the

rear door post and then I would have a fuel drain on each side of the
fuselage, just behind the rear door post. I was also thinking about

putting

in electric boost pumps, one on each side, just after the tee. This

would

give me redundancy to the engine driven pump and a means of overcoming

any

vapor lock I might encounter. Then, of course, after passing through

the

firewall I would go to a gascolator and then to the carb. I was

planning

on

using aluminum tubing pretty much the whole way. A local IA said with

all

aluminum planes even the tubing between the wing root and the fuselage

is

often aluminum tubing with a little "S" in the tube to account for small
vibrations/flexing. I haven't decided yet whether to go ahead and rivet

the

bulkhead caps on station 5 or screw them on since the fuel tubing will

be

inside. Seems like rivets would be stronger and this area needs to be
strong due to the rear wing attach fitting above. But screws would

allow

access to the fuel tubing. Of course, if I do it right, I may never

need

to

access the fuel tubing inside, and if worse comes to worse, I am VERY

GOOD

AT DRILLING OUT RIVETS due to extensive hands on experience.

Does anyone know if the semi-flush marine type fuel caps that came with
early kits (i.e., mine, serial #044) are vented? If not, how can I vent
them? I keep hearing about people drilling holes but I'm not sure where

to

drill. Especially since my plane will be parked outside. I need to

keep

the rain out.

Mike Kimball
SR #044

P.S. Thanks Wayne for the answers to my questions about a fuel selector
with "BOTH" and the cross-venting.


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There is a file in the "Software" section on the website that will allow you
to resize your images. It's really quite easy to use, if you have any
problems, let me know.

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "O & B Johnson" <ob.johnson@sympatico.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 7:38 AM
Subject: Re: My fuel system plan

I can do more if required but the file seemed to
be to big. If someone can tell me how to do the picture loading more
efficiently let me know. Thanks Bob J Rebel "652" Flying

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Thanks Wayne. I understood that. I was referring to exposed fuel lines if
I had to try to figure out a way to route forward around the aileron cable
and pulleys and over the front door post. Now I'm trying to understand the
problem with fuel lines taking the forward route to the firewall during high
angles of attack.

Mike Kimball
SR#044

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 8:14 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: My fuel system plan


Mike, read my reply again and I said "around the corner wrap and across the
floor". Should be more specific as they are all IN the floor. Nothing is
exposed to be dented (read restricted) from loading tools, baggage etc. Even
the line coming down behind the rear door post bulkhead is now hidden by the
headliners side panel. Before the interior panels were installed, only about
14" of tube was visible in the entire installation. There are access panels
on the inner floor to access the drain tees and the floor mounted fuel
valves (2 valves so I can run left or right, or the position they have been
in for 6+ years BOTH) have a removable >recessed< cover that allows the
valves in/out ports to be centered in the 2" deep Rebel bulkheads and still
retain the handles as mfg'd. The recessed cover also gets the valve handles
below floor level so they can't be snagged and gives clearance for the floor
run elevator cables to pass over top.

When you see the climb angle capable with the SR or the Rebel, you will be
glad that you didn't run your fuel lines forward over the front door post!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Kimball" <mkimball@gci.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 11:33 PM
Subject: RE: My fuel system plan

Thanks Wayne. This sounds like exactly my plan with the exception that I

am

going to try and run my fuel lines inside of the bulkhead for a cleaner
installation. Bob P's comment about flow restriction has me rethinking

the

installation of boost pumps right after the belly drain tee. I'll have to
see if I can find out more about how much flow I lose with the pumps in

the

way when they are not running.

I feel I must admit that I haven't even read ahead far enough in the

manual

to see what Murphy tells us to do. I just know that the front door post
area is pretty crowded with aileron cables and pulleys and I don't want to
have to run fuel lines outside of all that where people can grab them

trying

to get in or when panicking during spin recovery practice and other
necessary safety maneuvers such as loops and rolls. Whoops. Thinking

about

my old Renegade again.

Thanks to everyone else as well for your inputs! Happy holidays everyone.
Hope my family understands when I head to the shop right after opening
presents!

Mike Kimball
SR#044

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 5:36 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: My fuel system plan


Mike, if you have gone with the flush caps you can just put an inverted

"L"

or "J" tube in the cross vent. Don't go drilling any holes in those flush
caps or the snow is going to melt and leak in to your tanks. Poke the vent
tube up through the wing root fairing, NOT through the top of the cabin

like

on an old C170. When their installed on the cabin roof it makes for a hard
place to preflight for bugs etc and a bad place for a leaky tee right

above

your head!

I am always amazed at the Cessnas and many others that have no low point
belly drains. The have a sediment drain below the fuel selector valve that
is <supposed> to be serviced every 100 hours (or annually) and drained of
water and dirt. This lack of quick drains seems okay in the certified

world

yet the Canadian amateur built rules spell out that there MUST be drains

at

the lowest point in the fuel system when the plane is at rest on the

ground.

Although they somehow seem to make it through the inspection process

without

them, as I installed a set when I rebuilt the underside of the nosed over
Rebel this spring as it had none on it and made it through final

inspection

and was flying that way!

And YES, if you can do it, put aluminium lines all the way from your tanks
to the firewall gascolator with NO RUBBER HOSES! You will love yourself

for

it and the lack of rubber hose leaks, etc! Also makes wing pulls and
installations nice and simple. Hoses end up getting cut (and replaced)

every

time you have to pull a wing otherwise! You know how hard it is to pull a
hose off one of those supplied barbs! If you do use hose at least buy some
proper AN hose barbs that are smooth with a lip on the end. At least with
these you can pop the hose off and reuse. With my tanks (no sight gauges,
but could be done with them also) each outlet has a 90* fitting

(substitute

a tee if using sight gauges) on it. Then each line goes rearward to behind
the rear wing attach fitting and then does a 90* in (through the cabin

side)

and a 90* down just behind the bulkhead and the lines run down behind the
bulkhead to the corner wrap and then start forward as they go around the
corner wrap and inward across the floor to a low point drain. Then both
lines go forward to floor mounted valves. Then a single line runs up the
center of the cabin floor (buried inside) and to the firewall, gascolator
etc. This was done with only one union mid-point coming down the bulkhead
behind the rear wing attach fittings. Solid pieces of tubing from tank to
the union, union to the belly drain tee, tee to the valve and valve to the
firewalls gascolator fitting. No extra joints to leak other than the
fittings required to do it right. Just the one union in a very accessable
place and if I had of tried a little harder I may have been able to get

rid

of it. No problems, leaks, cracks etc, going on 7 years!

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Kimball" <mkimball@gci.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 8:30 PM
Subject: My fuel system plan

Although it creates a low point at the base of the rear seat, I am

planning

to route my fuel lines down through the inside of the station 5 bulkhead
then forward under the floor to the fuel selector valve, then into the
engine area. I have been told that this is how fuel is routed in a

Cessna

180 so I don't think I am breaking new ground here. I was surprised to
discover when inspecting a C-180 in a local hangar that there were no

fuel

drains at the low point in the back. I was planning on installing a tee

at

the point where my fuel line comes out under the floor and the base of

the

rear door post and then I would have a fuel drain on each side of the
fuselage, just behind the rear door post. I was also thinking about

putting

in electric boost pumps, one on each side, just after the tee. This

would

give me redundancy to the engine driven pump and a means of overcoming

any

vapor lock I might encounter. Then, of course, after passing through

the

firewall I would go to a gascolator and then to the carb. I was

planning

on

using aluminum tubing pretty much the whole way. A local IA said with

all

aluminum planes even the tubing between the wing root and the fuselage

is

often aluminum tubing with a little "S" in the tube to account for small
vibrations/flexing. I haven't decided yet whether to go ahead and rivet

the

bulkhead caps on station 5 or screw them on since the fuel tubing will

be

inside. Seems like rivets would be stronger and this area needs to be
strong due to the rear wing attach fitting above. But screws would

allow

access to the fuel tubing. Of course, if I do it right, I may never

need

to

access the fuel tubing inside, and if worse comes to worse, I am VERY

GOOD

AT DRILLING OUT RIVETS due to extensive hands on experience.

Does anyone know if the semi-flush marine type fuel caps that came with
early kits (i.e., mine, serial #044) are vented? If not, how can I vent
them? I keep hearing about people drilling holes but I'm not sure where

to

drill. Especially since my plane will be parked outside. I need to

keep

the rain out.

Mike Kimball
SR #044

P.S. Thanks Wayne for the answers to my questions about a fuel selector
with "BOTH" and the cross-venting.


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**

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**


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-----------------------------------------------------------------

Because the forward door post will be higher than the outlet of the fuel
tank (it even is when sitting level and low on fuel)! In the high climb
angle attitude you are depending on the line to act as a syphon down to the
gascolator. If the fuel sloshes away from the outlet of the tank you will
suck in air when at a high power setting. Not as critical when running a
pump, but gravity feed system could be deadly. This is another reason to ram
air the tanks, as it will help push the fuel up over the post, on those
builders aircraft that have already done it that way, and it insures enough
head pressure to keep your carb filled even if you didn't.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Kimball" <mkimball@gci.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 2:41 AM
Subject: RE: My fuel system plan

Thanks Wayne. I understood that. I was referring to exposed fuel lines

if

I had to try to figure out a way to route forward around the aileron cable
and pulleys and over the front door post. Now I'm trying to understand

the

problem with fuel lines taking the forward route to the firewall during

high

angles of attack.

Mike Kimball
SR#044

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 8:14 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: My fuel system plan


Mike, read my reply again and I said "around the corner wrap and across

the

floor". Should be more specific as they are all IN the floor. Nothing is
exposed to be dented (read restricted) from loading tools, baggage etc.

Even

the line coming down behind the rear door post bulkhead is now hidden by

the

headliners side panel. Before the interior panels were installed, only

about

14" of tube was visible in the entire installation. There are access

panels

on the inner floor to access the drain tees and the floor mounted fuel
valves (2 valves so I can run left or right, or the position they have

been

in for 6+ years BOTH) have a removable >recessed< cover that allows the
valves in/out ports to be centered in the 2" deep Rebel bulkheads and

still

retain the handles as mfg'd. The recessed cover also gets the valve

handles

below floor level so they can't be snagged and gives clearance for the

floor

run elevator cables to pass over top.

When you see the climb angle capable with the SR or the Rebel, you will be
glad that you didn't run your fuel lines forward over the front door post!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Kimball" <mkimball@gci.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 11:33 PM
Subject: RE: My fuel system plan

Thanks Wayne. This sounds like exactly my plan with the exception that

I

am

going to try and run my fuel lines inside of the bulkhead for a cleaner
installation. Bob P's comment about flow restriction has me rethinking

the

installation of boost pumps right after the belly drain tee. I'll have

to

see if I can find out more about how much flow I lose with the pumps in

the

way when they are not running.

I feel I must admit that I haven't even read ahead far enough in the

manual

to see what Murphy tells us to do. I just know that the front door post
area is pretty crowded with aileron cables and pulleys and I don't want

to

have to run fuel lines outside of all that where people can grab them

trying

to get in or when panicking during spin recovery practice and other
necessary safety maneuvers such as loops and rolls. Whoops. Thinking

about

my old Renegade again.

Thanks to everyone else as well for your inputs! Happy holidays

everyone.

Hope my family understands when I head to the shop right after opening
presents!

Mike Kimball
SR#044

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 5:36 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: My fuel system plan


Mike, if you have gone with the flush caps you can just put an inverted

"L"

or "J" tube in the cross vent. Don't go drilling any holes in those

flush

caps or the snow is going to melt and leak in to your tanks. Poke the

vent

tube up through the wing root fairing, NOT through the top of the cabin

like

on an old C170. When their installed on the cabin roof it makes for a

hard

place to preflight for bugs etc and a bad place for a leaky tee right

above

your head!

I am always amazed at the Cessnas and many others that have no low point
belly drains. The have a sediment drain below the fuel selector valve

that

is <supposed> to be serviced every 100 hours (or annually) and drained

of

water and dirt. This lack of quick drains seems okay in the certified

world

yet the Canadian amateur built rules spell out that there MUST be drains

at

the lowest point in the fuel system when the plane is at rest on the

ground.

Although they somehow seem to make it through the inspection process

without

them, as I installed a set when I rebuilt the underside of the nosed

over

Rebel this spring as it had none on it and made it through final

inspection

and was flying that way!

And YES, if you can do it, put aluminium lines all the way from your

tanks

to the firewall gascolator with NO RUBBER HOSES! You will love yourself

for

it and the lack of rubber hose leaks, etc! Also makes wing pulls and
installations nice and simple. Hoses end up getting cut (and replaced)

every

time you have to pull a wing otherwise! You know how hard it is to pull

a

hose off one of those supplied barbs! If you do use hose at least buy

some

proper AN hose barbs that are smooth with a lip on the end. At least

with

these you can pop the hose off and reuse. With my tanks (no sight

gauges,

but could be done with them also) each outlet has a 90* fitting

(substitute

a tee if using sight gauges) on it. Then each line goes rearward to

behind

the rear wing attach fitting and then does a 90* in (through the cabin

side)

and a 90* down just behind the bulkhead and the lines run down behind

the

bulkhead to the corner wrap and then start forward as they go around the
corner wrap and inward across the floor to a low point drain. Then both
lines go forward to floor mounted valves. Then a single line runs up the
center of the cabin floor (buried inside) and to the firewall,

gascolator

etc. This was done with only one union mid-point coming down the

bulkhead

behind the rear wing attach fittings. Solid pieces of tubing from tank

to

the union, union to the belly drain tee, tee to the valve and valve to

the

firewalls gascolator fitting. No extra joints to leak other than the
fittings required to do it right. Just the one union in a very

accessable

place and if I had of tried a little harder I may have been able to get

rid

of it. No problems, leaks, cracks etc, going on 7 years!

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Kimball" <mkimball@gci.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 8:30 PM
Subject: My fuel system plan

Although it creates a low point at the base of the rear seat, I am

planning

to route my fuel lines down through the inside of the station 5

bulkhead

then forward under the floor to the fuel selector valve, then into the
engine area. I have been told that this is how fuel is routed in a

Cessna

180 so I don't think I am breaking new ground here. I was surprised

to

discover when inspecting a C-180 in a local hangar that there were no

fuel

drains at the low point in the back. I was planning on installing a

tee

at

the point where my fuel line comes out under the floor and the base of

the

rear door post and then I would have a fuel drain on each side of the
fuselage, just behind the rear door post. I was also thinking about

putting

in electric boost pumps, one on each side, just after the tee. This

would

give me redundancy to the engine driven pump and a means of overcoming

any

vapor lock I might encounter. Then, of course, after passing through

the

firewall I would go to a gascolator and then to the carb. I was

planning

on

using aluminum tubing pretty much the whole way. A local IA said with

all

aluminum planes even the tubing between the wing root and the fuselage

is

often aluminum tubing with a little "S" in the tube to account for

small

vibrations/flexing. I haven't decided yet whether to go ahead and

rivet

the

bulkhead caps on station 5 or screw them on since the fuel tubing will

be

inside. Seems like rivets would be stronger and this area needs to be
strong due to the rear wing attach fitting above. But screws would

allow

access to the fuel tubing. Of course, if I do it right, I may never

need

to

access the fuel tubing inside, and if worse comes to worse, I am VERY

GOOD

AT DRILLING OUT RIVETS due to extensive hands on experience.

Does anyone know if the semi-flush marine type fuel caps that came

with

early kits (i.e., mine, serial #044) are vented? If not, how can I

vent

them? I keep hearing about people drilling holes but I'm not sure

where

to

drill. Especially since my plane will be parked outside. I need to

keep

the rain out.

Mike Kimball
SR #044

P.S. Thanks Wayne for the answers to my questions about a fuel

selector

with "BOTH" and the cross-venting.


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-----------------------------------------------------------------

Makes sense. I guess the uphill run from the base of the rear door post to
the firewall is mitigated by the head pressure from the vertical run down
the rear door post. Thanks again.

Mike Kimball
SR#044

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 8:56 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: My fuel system plan


Because the forward door post will be higher than the outlet of the fuel
tank (it even is when sitting level and low on fuel)! In the high climb
angle attitude you are depending on the line to act as a syphon down to the
gascolator. If the fuel sloshes away from the outlet of the tank you will
suck in air when at a high power setting. Not as critical when running a
pump, but gravity feed system could be deadly. This is another reason to ram
air the tanks, as it will help push the fuel up over the post, on those
builders aircraft that have already done it that way, and it insures enough
head pressure to keep your carb filled even if you didn't.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Kimball" <mkimball@gci.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 2:41 AM
Subject: RE: My fuel system plan

Thanks Wayne. I understood that. I was referring to exposed fuel lines

if

I had to try to figure out a way to route forward around the aileron cable
and pulleys and over the front door post. Now I'm trying to understand

the

problem with fuel lines taking the forward route to the firewall during

high

angles of attack.

Mike Kimball
SR#044

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 8:14 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: My fuel system plan


Mike, read my reply again and I said "around the corner wrap and across

the

floor". Should be more specific as they are all IN the floor. Nothing is
exposed to be dented (read restricted) from loading tools, baggage etc.

Even

the line coming down behind the rear door post bulkhead is now hidden by

the

headliners side panel. Before the interior panels were installed, only

about

14" of tube was visible in the entire installation. There are access

panels

on the inner floor to access the drain tees and the floor mounted fuel
valves (2 valves so I can run left or right, or the position they have

been

in for 6+ years BOTH) have a removable >recessed< cover that allows the
valves in/out ports to be centered in the 2" deep Rebel bulkheads and

still

retain the handles as mfg'd. The recessed cover also gets the valve

handles

below floor level so they can't be snagged and gives clearance for the

floor

run elevator cables to pass over top.

When you see the climb angle capable with the SR or the Rebel, you will be
glad that you didn't run your fuel lines forward over the front door post!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Kimball" <mkimball@gci.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 11:33 PM
Subject: RE: My fuel system plan

Thanks Wayne. This sounds like exactly my plan with the exception that

I

am

going to try and run my fuel lines inside of the bulkhead for a cleaner
installation. Bob P's comment about flow restriction has me rethinking

the

installation of boost pumps right after the belly drain tee. I'll have

to

see if I can find out more about how much flow I lose with the pumps in

the

way when they are not running.

I feel I must admit that I haven't even read ahead far enough in the

manual

to see what Murphy tells us to do. I just know that the front door post
area is pretty crowded with aileron cables and pulleys and I don't want

to

have to run fuel lines outside of all that where people can grab them

trying

to get in or when panicking during spin recovery practice and other
necessary safety maneuvers such as loops and rolls. Whoops. Thinking

about

my old Renegade again.

Thanks to everyone else as well for your inputs! Happy holidays

everyone.

Hope my family understands when I head to the shop right after opening
presents!

Mike Kimball
SR#044

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 5:36 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: My fuel system plan


Mike, if you have gone with the flush caps you can just put an inverted

"L"

or "J" tube in the cross vent. Don't go drilling any holes in those

flush

caps or the snow is going to melt and leak in to your tanks. Poke the

vent

tube up through the wing root fairing, NOT through the top of the cabin

like

on an old C170. When their installed on the cabin roof it makes for a

hard

place to preflight for bugs etc and a bad place for a leaky tee right

above

your head!

I am always amazed at the Cessnas and many others that have no low point
belly drains. The have a sediment drain below the fuel selector valve

that

is <supposed> to be serviced every 100 hours (or annually) and drained

of

water and dirt. This lack of quick drains seems okay in the certified

world

yet the Canadian amateur built rules spell out that there MUST be drains

at

the lowest point in the fuel system when the plane is at rest on the

ground.

Although they somehow seem to make it through the inspection process

without

them, as I installed a set when I rebuilt the underside of the nosed

over

Rebel this spring as it had none on it and made it through final

inspection

and was flying that way!

And YES, if you can do it, put aluminium lines all the way from your

tanks

to the firewall gascolator with NO RUBBER HOSES! You will love yourself

for

it and the lack of rubber hose leaks, etc! Also makes wing pulls and
installations nice and simple. Hoses end up getting cut (and replaced)

every

time you have to pull a wing otherwise! You know how hard it is to pull

a

hose off one of those supplied barbs! If you do use hose at least buy

some

proper AN hose barbs that are smooth with a lip on the end. At least

with

these you can pop the hose off and reuse. With my tanks (no sight

gauges,

but could be done with them also) each outlet has a 90* fitting

(substitute

a tee if using sight gauges) on it. Then each line goes rearward to

behind

the rear wing attach fitting and then does a 90* in (through the cabin

side)

and a 90* down just behind the bulkhead and the lines run down behind

the

bulkhead to the corner wrap and then start forward as they go around the
corner wrap and inward across the floor to a low point drain. Then both
lines go forward to floor mounted valves. Then a single line runs up the
center of the cabin floor (buried inside) and to the firewall,

gascolator

etc. This was done with only one union mid-point coming down the

bulkhead

behind the rear wing attach fittings. Solid pieces of tubing from tank

to

the union, union to the belly drain tee, tee to the valve and valve to

the

firewalls gascolator fitting. No extra joints to leak other than the
fittings required to do it right. Just the one union in a very

accessable

place and if I had of tried a little harder I may have been able to get

rid

of it. No problems, leaks, cracks etc, going on 7 years!

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Kimball" <mkimball@gci.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 8:30 PM
Subject: My fuel system plan

Although it creates a low point at the base of the rear seat, I am

planning

to route my fuel lines down through the inside of the station 5

bulkhead

then forward under the floor to the fuel selector valve, then into the
engine area. I have been told that this is how fuel is routed in a

Cessna

180 so I don't think I am breaking new ground here. I was surprised

to

discover when inspecting a C-180 in a local hangar that there were no

fuel

drains at the low point in the back. I was planning on installing a

tee

at

the point where my fuel line comes out under the floor and the base of

the

rear door post and then I would have a fuel drain on each side of the
fuselage, just behind the rear door post. I was also thinking about

putting

in electric boost pumps, one on each side, just after the tee. This

would

give me redundancy to the engine driven pump and a means of overcoming

any

vapor lock I might encounter. Then, of course, after passing through

the

firewall I would go to a gascolator and then to the carb. I was

planning

on

using aluminum tubing pretty much the whole way. A local IA said with

all

aluminum planes even the tubing between the wing root and the fuselage

is

often aluminum tubing with a little "S" in the tube to account for

small

vibrations/flexing. I haven't decided yet whether to go ahead and

rivet

the

bulkhead caps on station 5 or screw them on since the fuel tubing will

be

inside. Seems like rivets would be stronger and this area needs to be
strong due to the rear wing attach fitting above. But screws would

allow

access to the fuel tubing. Of course, if I do it right, I may never

need

to

access the fuel tubing inside, and if worse comes to worse, I am VERY

GOOD

AT DRILLING OUT RIVETS due to extensive hands on experience.

Does anyone know if the semi-flush marine type fuel caps that came

with

early kits (i.e., mine, serial #044) are vented? If not, how can I

vent

them? I keep hearing about people drilling holes but I'm not sure

where

to

drill. Especially since my plane will be parked outside. I need to

keep

the rain out.

Mike Kimball
SR #044

P.S. Thanks Wayne for the answers to my questions about a fuel

selector

with "BOTH" and the cross-venting.


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What size of fuel line is required for the M14?
Can commercial aluminum tubing be used or does one need specific tubing?

I've decided to go with the 120 gal tanks. MAM were concerned about the stesses of
tip tanks and had no time to do an analysis.
For those dreding the pro-seal, I had entirely completed both wings with no leaks.
Having partcially opened up the right wing for the 3500 mods I couldn't resist
making more work for myself (I love building) by completetly ripping the tank
apart. Getting the skins off produced a lot of sweat and cleaning all the old
pro-seal off was the biggest task so far. That stuff sure sticks. I can get away
with using it more sparingly on the rebuild. I ordered blank .040 stock from a
supplier, METALMART <http://www.execpc.com> in the US. This outfit charges by the
sq" and as I needed 74.5" in length which would have taken 4 standard sheets they
came out quite resonable. The four blank sheets for the six bays was 226 US. The
punched sheets MAM produces for the 120 gal tanks (700 CDN) will not work for a
retrofit due to the rivit spacing variation between. I've swapped the 5th and 7th
main ribs and adjusted all holes acordingly on the new sheets. I'll install the
strut attach bracket with pro-seal and use fuel cap as inspection hole with tank
acess covers on all bays should I need to get inside. Unprosealed rivets and
channels on main spar will be smeared with proseal.

Warren T. Montgomery
SR 029
Dubai, United Arab Emirates




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