The Murphy Builders Site

Hi All,

I'm following the prop pull through and starting procedure for the M-14
closely as there is a brand new one sitting in the workshop poised for
mounting as soon as MAM comes through with the mount and firewall forward
kit. Jan/Feb. We will be using a three blade MT propeller. We would like to
get our order in by the end of the week. We are struggling with which
length. The options are 96", 102", 108". But I digress from the topic. I
would hope that with three blades one could pull through from one float. Bob
do you have a feeling as to how many degrees the prop moves for each pull? I
could probably calculate it but it's late and my brain is fried. How much
force does it take to "pull a blade through". I did think about a spreader
bar between the floats but most likely impractical to install. Most have the
cable.

George Coy indicated that many installations of the M-14 and other radials
in Europe place a ball valve between the outlet of the oil tank and the oil
pump. I will be installing such a valve and hope this helps or eliminates
any major oil seepage into the engine (past the oil pump ??). I do not know
enough about where all the oil comes from that one can find in the lower
cylinders, but will become, out of necessity, knowledgeable in the next few
months. Yes, I do recognize that there has to be a fool proof way of making
sure the valve is opened before the engine is started.

The plan is to do whatever it takes to light up that beast. There is just no
such thing as too much power when it comes to flying amphibs and in my book
the M-14 is affordable raw power.

Don Boardman
& Partner
Randy Bowers
SR130 Rome, NY








-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Don !

I recall that it was about 90 degrees for one compression
stroke with the 2 blade ... my memory's not the greatest, but
that seems about right - about 45 to 45 each time. The gearing
means it's not one-to-one - thank goodness !

Diameter - tough call ! The 96" would already be longer
than the 2 blade, but I know the longer blades are more efficient -
IF they're turned at the right pitch & RPM. Again, the gear reduction
means you don't likely have to worry about the tips going supersonic -
but a bit of fast calculating might help there ...

Another useful measurement would be the distance from prop
shaft to float top - but unfortunately, that number is a month or 2
away ....

If you can, try to talk to the folks who are running the MT's
on the Pitts 12's - they may have some suggestions, even though it's
a different application.

Not sure how much help that valve will be - or if it balances
the risk of forgetting it 'just once' !! I would think that things
would have to be pretty worn before much oil ran down through the
pump .... I believe most of it just runs down from the case & upper
valve gear. It certainly is more oil than you would see with a Pratt
or a Jacobs - guess the clearances are larger on the M-14.

How much force ??? Well - you sure can't snap it like an
O-320 ! We usually used 2 hands and 'walked' it across the bottom
of the circle - if you encounter resistance (more than just compression)
you have to move slowly and rock it back & forth, to allow the oil
to escape through the valves. Imagine pulling a Harley through -
long stroke, slow speed.

Actually, that "Harley" anology helped me a great deal - I got
it from a Yak driver. We're so accustomed to spinning engines fairly
fast to start - Lyc's and Continentals don't usually go without
enough speed to generate a hot spark. Not so with the M-14 !
The "Shower of Sparks" takes care of the ignition - it would be
ideal to have it wired right into the key switch (as some Beeches did).
It's very much like starting the old 'Hog' - get some mixture into
the cylinders, then just stand on the kick start & let your weight
push the pistons. It'll start within 3 blades, or you've got the
mixture wrong - STOP, re-prime, pull through, and try again. If you
follow that, you get many more tries out of an air tank !! ;-)
With the 'combination' we came up with, I only had to re-try once
in about 10 starts - probably better odds than with a Lycosaurus !! :-)

......bobp

------------------------------orig.------------------------------------
At 10:31 PM 12/12/01 -0500, you wrote:

Hi All,

I'm following the prop pull through and starting procedure for the M-14
closely as there is a brand new one sitting in the workshop poised for
mounting as soon as MAM comes through with the mount and firewall forward
kit. Jan/Feb. We will be using a three blade MT propeller. We would like to
get our order in by the end of the week. We are struggling with which
length. The options are 96", 102", 108". But I digress from the topic. I
would hope that with three blades one could pull through from one float. Bob
do you have a feeling as to how many degrees the prop moves for each pull? I
could probably calculate it but it's late and my brain is fried. How much
force does it take to "pull a blade through". I did think about a spreader
bar between the floats but most likely impractical to install. Most have the
cable.

George Coy indicated that many installations of the M-14 and other radials
in Europe place a ball valve between the outlet of the oil tank and the oil
pump. I will be installing such a valve and hope this helps or eliminates
any major oil seepage into the engine (past the oil pump ??). I do not know
enough about where all the oil comes from that one can find in the lower
cylinders, but will become, out of necessity, knowledgeable in the next few
months. Yes, I do recognize that there has to be a fool proof way of making
sure the valve is opened before the engine is started.

The plan is to do whatever it takes to light up that beast. There is just no
such thing as too much power when it comes to flying amphibs and in my book
the M-14 is affordable raw power.

Don Boardman
& Partner
Randy Bowers
SR130 Rome, NY






** To unsubscribe, send e-mail to list-server@dcsol.com with **
** UNSUBSCRIBE MURPHY-REBEL in the message body on a line by itself **
** Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm **
** To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com **

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Don, there is also a drain kit available (one place is Culps Specialties
www.culpsspecialties.com in Florida were Rob picked it up in person, down
some muddy road, and I would think George Coy would have them too) for the
lower 3 cylinders. This saves pulling the intake plugs to drain the oil that
collects in the heads. It couples the 3 cylinders into one fitting so you
can put a valve on that too. Rob and I figured with the M462, that I now
have, that one push pull cable/linkage or some gismo could upon shutdown
open the drain valve on the cylinders and close the valve on the oil pump
return line at the same time to stop the back feed into the engine case.
Then before start the reverse operation of this linkage would open the oil
line and close the cylinder drains. Definitely an aircraft that will require
a check list for start and 100% following! Figured this way if you forgot to
cycle the linkage, the engine would run like hell with 3 cylinders open to
atmosphere and quickly remind you to push the linkage in to get the oil
moving and the head drains closed! I figure the 3 lower cylinders, when the
valve is opened, could drain into a small vented tank (instead of out on the
ground) that you could empty periodically with an attachable drain hose or
?? Maybe we were dreaming, but that's what we had planned!

"Weed cutter" cables scare me on a set of floats (especially the ones right
out at the bows that would have more distance to whip back into the prop),
as if they ever let go on one side in flight and grab that prop
blade................That's also apparently why Transport Canada doesn't
like them! You say what is the chance of that but considering the float
cable is ahead of the propellor it has a much higher possibility of
happening, than the poor bastards in Quebec two winters ago that had a ski
front check cable let go in flight and flip forward at 1500AGL. It grabbed
the prop, ripped the engine off, put the gear leg/ski up through the wing
and caused the airframe to break right behind the front seats. 2 dead in the
front and the 2 in the rear survived (barely) as they fell to earth in the
rear fuselage section and landed in about 6 feet of powder snow.

Good luck!
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Boardman" <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 10:31 PM
Subject: M-14 Prop Pulling & Oil

Hi All,

I'm following the prop pull through and starting procedure for the M-14
closely as there is a brand new one sitting in the workshop poised for
mounting as soon as MAM comes through with the mount and firewall forward
kit. Jan/Feb. We will be using a three blade MT propeller. We would like

to

get our order in by the end of the week. We are struggling with which
length. The options are 96", 102", 108". But I digress from the topic. I
would hope that with three blades one could pull through from one float.

Bob

do you have a feeling as to how many degrees the prop moves for each pull?

I

could probably calculate it but it's late and my brain is fried. How much
force does it take to "pull a blade through". I did think about a spreader
bar between the floats but most likely impractical to install. Most have

the

cable.

George Coy indicated that many installations of the M-14 and other radials
in Europe place a ball valve between the outlet of the oil tank and the

oil

pump. I will be installing such a valve and hope this helps or eliminates
any major oil seepage into the engine (past the oil pump ??). I do not

know

enough about where all the oil comes from that one can find in the lower
cylinders, but will become, out of necessity, knowledgeable in the next

few

months. Yes, I do recognize that there has to be a fool proof way of

making

sure the valve is opened before the engine is started.

The plan is to do whatever it takes to light up that beast. There is just

no

such thing as too much power when it comes to flying amphibs and in my

book

the M-14 is affordable raw power.

Don Boardman
& Partner
Randy Bowers
SR130 Rome, NY






** To unsubscribe, send e-mail to list-server@dcsol.com with

**

** UNSUBSCRIBE MURPHY-REBEL in the message body on a line by itself

**

** Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm

**

** To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com

**




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------