more Amphibious Rebel questions
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:22 pm
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To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com> (Murphy Rebel)
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
Subject: Re: more Amphibious Rebel questions
Message-Id: <E0zW04V-0003Ah-00@mail2.toronto.istar.net>
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 11:21:11 -0400
Will answer in-line again. Hope it's easier to read ...
---------------------------orig.-------------------------------------
At 04:18 PM 10/18/98 EDT, you wrote:
Your questions are anything BUT naive !! Well thought out, and genuine
concerns.
There are NO dumb questions ! (can't say the same for answers :-) )
**************************************************************************
There are well over 600 Rebel kits out there, and I believe that
over half of them are now flying, and many more are VERY close !
*********************************************************************
**************************************************************
************************************************************************
Absolutely NONE !! AFAIK, the Rebel is the ONLY kit plane to have
had a complete stress analysis done by a Canadian government Designated
Airworthiness Representative (Dick Hiscock), AND a full static loading
test - to destruction !! You can believe the numbers !
There have been a few spectacular crashes (can't stop nature, or
human nature :-) ), BUT all of the pilots walked away, with only minor
scratches for the most part. The structure is designed to crumple
progressively, absorbing the energy, so your body doesn't have to !
Several of the Rebels involved in nasty crashes were repaired and
back in the air within weeks - a tribute to the interchangeability of
the Murphy CNC manufactured parts !
*************************************************************
*****************************************************************
Not that I know of, but the Canadian government (and likely the FAA)
does have accident/incident records that you could inquire into. I don't
know how they are organized, but surely there must be a way to search by
type or manufacturer.
My only resource is word-of-mouth - I have heard of several small
accidents. These are just the usual stuff - low time pilot losing control
in a gusty crosswind, - several groundloops, with damage to the gear,
- and twice: hooking up the ailerons backwards and going flying ...
Catch me at OSH or S'nF, and I'll tell you about the spectacular
ones - no serious injuries !!
**********************************************
****************************************************
Rates vary widely between countries !! Rebels in Ontario get a
preferred rate. British Aviation Insurance were so impressed with the
engineering in the Rebel that they reduced rates for us back in 1993 !
My Rebel costs LESS to insure than my old Aeronca Super Chief,
and it's covered for over THREE TIMES THE VALUE !!!
Insurance for floats is no biggie, either - usually about 1 1/2 %
extra. Rates depend on number of hours and float endorsement.
Amphibs can be a different story - rates are same, BUT you
CAN'T get ANY coverage (except for training - dual only) until you have
AT LEAST 25 HOURS on amphibs !!! (NO - not even plain liability coverage !)
(They say this is because the insurance industry has an 80 % loss ratio
on amphibs (!!!) - lots of people leave the wheels DOWN on water -
VERY expensive mistake !!)
I know the dollars and values are useless to you, but here, you
can get liability (1 million), and ground only hull insurance($45,000)
for about $350 - $450 Canadian, and FULL in-flight hull with liability,
for about $2,700 - $3,000.
FWIW - we avoid AVEMCO. Their rates were low, but the coverage
wasn't nearly as good, AND I know of one simple claim that took them
over a year to pay !! Your mileage may differ !! :-)
*****************************************************************
***********************************************************
I would go with a Rebel with a Lyc. O-320 150 hp., with the
standard full-span flapperons, and the standard metal cowl. The cowl
would be modified with 2 extra hinges, to allow full, easy access to the
engine. I would use a 3 bladed Warp Drive prop ov 72 inches dia., with
17 inches of metal leading edge, and the standard, square tips. The
Murphy 1800 amphibs are great - there are a few improvements Jack Weibe
has added that I would include.
These are my preferences only - reasons based on experience with
my own Rebel on amphibs, and several others. (very subjective !!)
*******************************************
****************************************************
Not offhand, but there are several north of you in Ottawa, Ont.
Will try to find one - if not, you can come to Brampton for a Builders
Meeting (next one Sun. Nov. 8th) and talk to dozens of them, while
checking out the Rebels !
********************************************************
**********************************************************
You can ! Just call ME when you're ready to order that
Rebel !! ;-) (905) 457-5238
....bobp
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by mail2.toronto.istar.net with smtp (Exim 1.92 #2)
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To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com> (Murphy Rebel)
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
Subject: Re: more Amphibious Rebel questions
Message-Id: <E0zW04V-0003Ah-00@mail2.toronto.istar.net>
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 11:21:11 -0400
Will answer in-line again. Hope it's easier to read ...
---------------------------orig.-------------------------------------
At 04:18 PM 10/18/98 EDT, you wrote:
Sobob.patterson@canrem.com (Bob Patterson)
Wow, I certainly appreciate your great responses to my naive questions.
*********************************************************************how about five more that will relieve some more of my anxieties.
Your questions are anything BUT naive !! Well thought out, and genuine
concerns.
There are NO dumb questions ! (can't say the same for answers :-) )
**************************************************************************
**********************************************************************Questions: 1. Have you any numbers for how many Rebel's are flying?
There are well over 600 Rebel kits out there, and I believe that
over half of them are now flying, and many more are VERY close !
*********************************************************************
**************************************************************
of?2. Have there been any in-flight break ups that you know
************************************************************************
Absolutely NONE !! AFAIK, the Rebel is the ONLY kit plane to have
had a complete stress analysis done by a Canadian government Designated
Airworthiness Representative (Dick Hiscock), AND a full static loading
test - to destruction !! You can believe the numbers !
There have been a few spectacular crashes (can't stop nature, or
human nature :-) ), BUT all of the pilots walked away, with only minor
scratches for the most part. The structure is designed to crumple
progressively, absorbing the energy, so your body doesn't have to !
Several of the Rebels involved in nasty crashes were repaired and
back in the air within weeks - a tribute to the interchangeability of
the Murphy CNC manufactured parts !
*************************************************************
*****************************************************************
elsewhere? ******************************************************3. Is there a Rebel accident listing anywhere on the Internet or
Not that I know of, but the Canadian government (and likely the FAA)
does have accident/incident records that you could inquire into. I don't
know how they are organized, but surely there must be a way to search by
type or manufacturer.
My only resource is word-of-mouth - I have heard of several small
accidents. These are just the usual stuff - low time pilot losing control
in a gusty crosswind, - several groundloops, with damage to the gear,
- and twice: hooking up the ailerons backwards and going flying ...
Catch me at OSH or S'nF, and I'll tell you about the spectacular
ones - no serious injuries !!
**********************************************
****************************************************
**************************************************************4. What are typical insurance rates and or problems in obtaining float
insurance for the Rebel?
Rates vary widely between countries !! Rebels in Ontario get a
preferred rate. British Aviation Insurance were so impressed with the
engineering in the Rebel that they reduced rates for us back in 1993 !
My Rebel costs LESS to insure than my old Aeronca Super Chief,
and it's covered for over THREE TIMES THE VALUE !!!
Insurance for floats is no biggie, either - usually about 1 1/2 %
extra. Rates depend on number of hours and float endorsement.
Amphibs can be a different story - rates are same, BUT you
CAN'T get ANY coverage (except for training - dual only) until you have
AT LEAST 25 HOURS on amphibs !!! (NO - not even plain liability coverage !)
(They say this is because the insurance industry has an 80 % loss ratio
on amphibs (!!!) - lots of people leave the wheels DOWN on water -
VERY expensive mistake !!)
I know the dollars and values are useless to you, but here, you
can get liability (1 million), and ground only hull insurance($45,000)
for about $350 - $450 Canadian, and FULL in-flight hull with liability,
for about $2,700 - $3,000.
FWIW - we avoid AVEMCO. Their rates were low, but the coverage
wasn't nearly as good, AND I know of one simple claim that took them
over a year to pay !! Your mileage may differ !! :-)
*****************************************************************
***********************************************************
********************************************************5. What would you recommend as the "best" Rebel amphibious setup,
(engine and airframe)
I would go with a Rebel with a Lyc. O-320 150 hp., with the
standard full-span flapperons, and the standard metal cowl. The cowl
would be modified with 2 extra hinges, to allow full, easy access to the
engine. I would use a 3 bladed Warp Drive prop ov 72 inches dia., with
17 inches of metal leading edge, and the standard, square tips. The
Murphy 1800 amphibs are great - there are a few improvements Jack Weibe
has added that I would include.
These are my preferences only - reasons based on experience with
my own Rebel on amphibs, and several others. (very subjective !!)
*******************************************
****************************************************
VT)6. Are there any Murphy builders in my area (Burlington,
********************************************************************that you
know of?
Not offhand, but there are several north of you in Ottawa, Ont.
Will try to find one - if not, you can come to Brampton for a Builders
Meeting (next one Sun. Nov. 8th) and talk to dozens of them, while
checking out the Rebels !
********************************************************
**********************************************************
theThanks, and I hope I can help you out some time in
**************************************************future.
George Luhr (MMB) maybe Murphy builder
You can ! Just call ME when you're ready to order that
Rebel !! ;-) (905) 457-5238
....bobp
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