The Murphy Builders Site

Hi all
My seats measure 9 5/8 inch at the center line of where the seat rails would
slide.
The manual shows a center line spacing of 10 5/8 inches (manual dates10/22/93
7/27/94 1/11/95) in figure 107 of fuselage assembly, which is at the point
where you install back to back ST-31 channels that the seat rails will
eventually be installed on top of.
What does the newer manual show for this spacing?
Are the measurement in figure 107 measuring in from a full 44 inches width?
Are there different widths of seats?
My seat rails are SA-27-1 which has a width of 1 3/4 inches. Back to back
ST-31 gives a top flange width of 1 3/8 inches which doesn't leave much edge
distance for the rivets if you are supposed to get the seat rail on top of
the ST-31.
Also there isn't any measurement for seat rail location. Do you start the
rail at the square tube, this would seem the strongest as you could use a
couple of 3/16 rivets into the square tube at the end of the rail or would
this put the seat too far forward? (standard firewall location)
How do you bend the seat rails? They don't look very bendable.
Thanks in advance
Jim R254
PS The 10/22/93 manual figure 107 only shows one single ST-31 under each
seat rail not the back to back style the newer ones do. One more reason why I
should buy the CD rom I guess.



-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Jim
My seats are the same width as yours. As per the original manual the
channels would only pick up one side of each seat rail. I opted to put
extra channels in so that they made a box rather than back to back like
the newer manual. This solved all the problems of edge clearance and
stiffened the seat rails against twisting. The original method seemed
silly to me since any weight on the seat rail would tend to twist the
rail. For the same reason, I extended the inner floor corner wraps so
that they go under the full width of the outer seat rails.

The measurements in fig 107 are from the outside of the fuselage to the
outer seat rail channels on my bird. My seat rails are about 6 inches
back from the rear cross tube of the cage but that is with a 3" moved
back firewall. My pedals are probably back an extra inch from the
firewall as well and I'm about 5'10". Don't know if that helps at all
but why make your own plane if it isn't custom fitted to the builder eh?
It isn't as critical if you have the longer (24"??) seat rails but it
looked like the passenger might be more comfortable with that seat
sitting farther aft than the pilots seat. Hopefully some one who is
flying will add their comments.

I have heard of bending the seat rails over a table edge. I used a press
but a 4" wide vise and some pieces of broom handle would likely also do
it.

Ken
119R

Jims170A@cs.com wrote:

Hi all
My seats measure 9 5/8 inch at the center line of where the seat rails would
slide.
The manual shows a center line spacing of 10 5/8 inches (manual dates10/22/93
7/27/94 1/11/95) in figure 107 of fuselage assembly, which is at the point
where you install back to back ST-31 channels that the seat rails will
eventually be installed on top of.
What does the newer manual show for this spacing?
Are the measurement in figure 107 measuring in from a full 44 inches width?
Are there different widths of seats?
My seat rails are SA-27-1 which has a width of 1 3/4 inches. Back to back
ST-31 gives a top flange width of 1 3/8 inches which doesn't leave much edge
distance for the rivets if you are supposed to get the seat rail on top of
the ST-31.
Also there isn't any measurement for seat rail location. Do you start the
rail at the square tube, this would seem the strongest as you could use a
couple of 3/16 rivets into the square tube at the end of the rail or would
this put the seat too far forward? (standard firewall location)
How do you bend the seat rails? They don't look very bendable.
Thanks in advance
Jim R254
PS The 10/22/93 manual figure 107 only shows one single ST-31 under each
seat rail not the back to back style the newer ones do. One more reason why I
should buy the CD rom I guess.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Jim ; I ran into the same problem while constructing my fus. Fortunately I
had my seats on the rails and was double checking the support locations. Mam
confirmed the manual was in error. I did use the back to back channel method
making sure they where under the seat rails. The old saying-measure
twice--cut once.-Bob J.- Rebel "652" FLYING




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Jim,

My rails are set 7" back from the rear carry through tube with standard
firewall. I'm six feet and find this to be a good location. You're welcome to
come over, look and copy any part of the CD manual off my printer.

Bruce G 357R




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Ken:

I'm looking at the inst. panel bracing. Having cut the firewall back the
bracing does not want to fit as per the manual. What did you do? Is the
bracing for the firewall as well as the panel or just the panel? I'm going
to install my cut in half carrythrough's under the panel to mount the
throttle,mixture, & carb heat. This will give reinforcing to the panel but
not the firewall if requirred.
Please comment.

Thanks
Murray Cherkas
REBEL 505




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Pretty sure that others in the know have said that bracing is indeed
structural. Lacking any advice or ideas to the contrary, I just changed
the angle a bit that the square tubes attach to the lower edge of the
instrument panel. ie instead of coming straight off the edge of the
panel they angle towards the firewall a bit. I will make sure that
corner has a good doubler when I extend the panel 2" lower like you are
doing.
Ken

Murray & Carol wrote:

Hi Ken:

I'm looking at the inst. panel bracing. Having cut the firewall back the
bracing does not want to fit as per the manual. What did you do? Is the
bracing for the firewall as well as the panel or just the panel? I'm going
to install my cut in half carrythrough's under the panel to mount the
throttle,mixture, & carb heat. This will give reinforcing to the panel but
not the firewall if requirred.
Please comment.

Thanks
Murray Cherkas
REBEL 505

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Murray and Ken,
I too moved my firewall back, and in the MAM instructions for dooing that, it also gave instructions for the change in the firewall support. I will try and get the pages and copy them for you, but the best way to describe it is th is.
A tube running straight back from the firewall to the instrument panel. It attaches to the firewall via a small L brackett above and below it. Then run a small Square tube along each angled section of the bottom of the panel until it me ets the first tube. A gusset plate then holds all of them together. My addition to that was to add the below the panel plate for the throttle, mixture, primer, trim switch and flap switch. I riveted this piece to the bottom of the panel, (with each end cut on a 45deg so the top of the plate is longer than the bottom) and I supported it with a brace from the first tube mentioned. All pieces are nice and secure with no flex or movement. Perhaps a person could include the firewall bracing into this too. If any one wants copys of that I'll see what I can do about putting it on line. It will take me a bit as I am basicly computer illerate. Curt N97MR
PS I think in the MAM site they have a pic of my panel, maybe that will make it clearer.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks Curt:

This sounds like a good idea.

Murray Cherkas
REBEL 505