The Murphy Builders Site

Received: from 486dx2-80 (unverified [205.182.69.163]) by merlin.netexp.net
(Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.4) with SMTP id <B0003807889@merlin.netexp.net> for
<murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>;
Fri, 16 Oct 1998 12:36:45 -0400
Message-ID: <B0003807889@merlin.netexp.net>
From: "Joel Jacobs" <jj@netexp.net>
To: "Murphy Rebel" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Filling rivets
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 12:44:21 -0400
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4


-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: Murphy Rebel <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Thursday, October 15, 1998 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: Float Sealer

If you're worried about leaks - it's NOT necessary. If you want
to do it for looks - go ahead... I don't know of any EASY way, though !

....bobp

Ok, Bob. If you say so I have to believe you that it's not necessary, but I
do think it would improve the looks. I won't do it unless I can find an
EASY way to fill them though. I DON"T want to spend hundreds of hours doing
it. There must be something I could wipe on and wipe off - kinda like
putting grout in a tile floor. I do have a tube of some non-hardening
paintable auto body sealer I got from a friend that works at a body shop.
It claims on the tube water clean-up. If I find a way I'll share it with
you folks.

Joel






-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

I used poly fibers Superfil light weight 2 part epoxy filler. Just mixed a
little at a time and dabbed it on the hole pressing it in then wipe with
acetone. I have just painted and most of them you can not tell are pulled
rivets. As far as time, doesn't take long with practice and didn't cost
much. I know of ones with a lot of rust that have never seen salt water.

If you search archives other have used syringe to put in regular epoxy.
FWIW
Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Alvin
and Glenys Adams
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 4:55 PM
To: rebel
Subject: Filling rivets

Can anyone suggest what to use and a easy way to fill the rivet
heads.Most people think this is a waste off time & money.I live in
NFLD,there are about 15 rebels here.I have seen a couple with rust marks
showing at rivets.Probably from landing in salt water occasionally.


Alvin rebel 778



-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------






-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

I filled all my rivet heads with the epoxy provided by MAM. Put it in a
syringe (Available through a medical friend?drugstore) put on a medium size
diameter needle and inject each rivet cavity. This may take 2 or 3 applications
as the epoxy shrinks on drying. If there is a protrusion of dried epoxy just
buff off the excess.
H prins R314




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

I haven't taken this step, but I may. I would mix up epoxy with micro-
balloons to a thick toothpaste consistency, and use a plastic edge to putty
fill em fast -- at least it seems like it should go fast, sorta like
everything else. ;) Yes, and clear excess with acetone. Talk to a LongEz
builder and I bet they'd say to use this method -- they know it in their
sleep.
-Ben/ 496R

Can anyone suggest what to use and a easy way to fill the rivet
heads.Most people think this is a waste off time & money.I live in
NFLD,there are about 15 rebels here.I have seen a couple with rust marks
showing at rivets.Probably from landing in salt water occasionally.


Alvin rebel 778

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Can anyone suggest what to use and a easy way to fill the rivet
heads.Most people think this is a waste off time & money.I live in
NFLD,there are about 15 rebels here.I have seen a couple with rust marks
showing at rivets.Probably from landing in salt water occasionally.


Alvin rebel 778



-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Alvin !

I agree with "most people" ! ;-) If you are worried about it, be
sure to paint the Rebel using a HVLP spray system - this uses a lot
of paint at low pressure, so it just flows into the rivets & seals
them. Old high-pressure paint sprayers blow so hard that the paint
doesn't get into the tops of the rivets well.

If you are dipping each rivet in epoxy before intalling &
pulling, a film of epoxy will be pulled up around the stem, stopping
corrosion there. Rebels have been outside for almost 15 years
with no problems - I've only ever seen a couple of rust spots in
rivets. These are visually unattractive, but it could be 60+ years
before they become a structural concern .... and then, you just
replace the rivet !

If you really want to fill the rivets, some folks have used
veterinary syringes (large needle) filled with epoxy primer,
and put a drop into each rivet. VERY time-consuming .... this
was used by one builder to 'entertain' tourists who visited his hangar
while he was working - he handed them a syringe & put them to work ! :-)
Few stayed beyond one fill-up ! ;-) :-)

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Saturday 13 August 2005 06:54 pm, Alvin and Glenys Adams wrote:

Can anyone suggest what to use and a easy way to fill the rivet
heads.Most people think this is a waste off time & money.I live in
NFLD,there are about 15 rebels here.I have seen a couple with rust marks
showing at rivets.Probably from landing in salt water occasionally.


Alvin rebel 778

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

G'day from sunny OZ Alvin !

I filled ALL / EVERY outside rivet on our Rebel .... ( and most
people think it's been solid riveted

Looks great , no rust streaks & I figure that all those holes had to be
creating a bit of aerodynamic drag too ....

I used a small plastic syringe (no needle) ..... just mix up some 2
part epoxy , & squeeze & dab away ... (takes a while to get a rhythm
going)

Keep refilling the syringe with more glue .... & When it gets too hard
to squeeze the syringe - the glue is probably starting to set .... throw
it away & get another syringe out !

I left a little mound of glue on each rivet head ....

After they all set ... I LIGHTLY sanded each rivet head off to level (
That's the GLUE - NOT the rivet head !!!

Took 3 days - non stop to do the WHOLE plane ...... it was a killer at
the time - but the end result looks GREAT !

Rick
541 OR
----- Original Message -----
From: Alvin and Glenys Adams
To: rebel
Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 8:54 AM
Subject: Filling rivets


Can anyone suggest what to use and a easy way to fill the rivet
heads.Most people think this is a waste off time & money.I live in
NFLD,there are about 15 rebels here.I have seen a couple with rust
marks
showing at rivets.Probably from landing in salt water occasionally.


Alvin rebel 778



-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------







-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Ben,Scott,Bob,Mr Prins & Rick thanks so much for the advise.I will try
the two part epoxy filler.Will i have to rotate the fuselauge or can
this be done with out having rivets up.I assume it will not stay in
rivets unless they are in a flat up position.Also thanks to any other
replies i may get.



Alvin 778R



-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Use a "thick" epoxy .... & it should stay there at any angle !

Rick
541R
----- Original Message -----
From: Alvin and Glenys Adams
To: rebel
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 12:20 PM
Subject: Filling rivets


Ben,Scott,Bob,Mr Prins & Rick thanks so much for the advise.I will try

the two part epoxy filler.Will i have to rotate the fuselauge or can
this be done with out having rivets up.I assume it will not stay in
rivets unless they are in a flat up position.Also thanks to any other
replies i may get.



Alvin 778R



-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------







-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

I am planning at this time to leave my Rebel mostly unpainted. If I keep it
waxed or polished will enough of whatever product I use get into the rivet
holes to stop rust? I'm sure I will be in salt water.
Thanks
Jesse

From: "Alvin and Glenys Adams" <gander.electrical@nf.sympatico.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: "rebel" <rebel-builders-d@dcsol.com>
Subject: Filling rivets
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 22:20:23 -0400

Ben,Scott,Bob,Mr Prins & Rick thanks so much for the advise.I will try
the two part epoxy filler.Will i have to rotate the fuselauge or can
this be done with out having rivets up.I assume it will not stay in
rivets unless they are in a flat up position.Also thanks to any other
replies i may get.



Alvin 778R



-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Filing rivet heads can be done in any position: mind you it is easiest when
the rivets are vertical.
H prins




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Jesse !

If you're going for the 'bare' look, you should check out the
Everbright liquid nylon coating that Mike showed at the last Builders
Meeting !

It's very light, and can be applied with a rag - protects for years !

Having polished my "40 acres of aluminum" glider for 25+ years, with almost
every polish known to man, I'd say there's NOTHING out there in the WAX line
that will protect like Everbright, and it's a heck of a lot less work ! :-)

Maybe Mike will bring a sample along for another meeting !

According to the rivet manufacturer, the phosphoric (?) coating on
the steel mandrels is supposed to prevent corrosion, even across the
break where the mandrel shears off .....

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Sunday 14 August 2005 07:22 pm, Jesse Jenks wrote:

I am planning at this time to leave my Rebel mostly unpainted. If I keep it
waxed or polished will enough of whatever product I use get into the rivet
holes to stop rust? I'm sure I will be in salt water.
Thanks
Jesse

From: "Alvin and Glenys Adams" <gander.electrical@nf.sympatico.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: "rebel" <rebel-builders-d@dcsol.com>
Subject: Filling rivets
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 22:20:23 -0400

Ben,Scott,Bob,Mr Prins & Rick thanks so much for the advise.I will try
the two part epoxy filler.Will i have to rotate the fuselauge or can
this be done with out having rivets up.I assume it will not stay in
rivets unless they are in a flat up position.Also thanks to any other
replies i may get.



Alvin 778R



-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Jesse My rebel is mostly polished and like Bob I've tried almost every
product available. I sure hope none of it is corrosive because there's a
little dab of it stuffed down each mandrel hole. Whether it stops rust or
not I don't know but if there's any rust it certainly doesn't show anywhere
on my plane.

At 04:22 PM 8/14/2005 -0700, you wrote:

I am planning at this time to leave my Rebel mostly unpainted. If I keep it
waxed or polished will enough of whatever product I use get into the rivet
holes to stop rust? I'm sure I will be in salt water.
Thanks
Jesse

From: "Alvin and Glenys Adams" <gander.electrical@nf.sympatico.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: "rebel" <rebel-builders-d@dcsol.com>
Subject: Filling rivets
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 22:20:23 -0400

Ben,Scott,Bob,Mr Prins & Rick thanks so much for the advise.I will try
the two part epoxy filler.Will i have to rotate the fuselauge or can
this be done with out having rivets up.I assume it will not stay in
rivets unless they are in a flat up position.Also thanks to any other
replies i may get.



Alvin 778R



-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Drew





-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks Bob and Drew,
Drew, do you play in salt water?
Jesse

From: Drew Dalgleish <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: RE: Filling rivets
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 08:27:33 -0400

Hi Jesse My rebel is mostly polished and like Bob I've tried almost every
product available. I sure hope none of it is corrosive because there's a
little dab of it stuffed down each mandrel hole. Whether it stops rust or
not I don't know but if there's any rust it certainly doesn't show anywhere
on my plane.

At 04:22 PM 8/14/2005 -0700, you wrote:

I am planning at this time to leave my Rebel mostly unpainted. If I keep

it

waxed or polished will enough of whatever product I use get into the

rivet

holes to stop rust? I'm sure I will be in salt water.
Thanks
Jesse

From: "Alvin and Glenys Adams" <gander.electrical@nf.sympatico.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: "rebel" <rebel-builders-d@dcsol.com>
Subject: Filling rivets
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 22:20:23 -0400

Ben,Scott,Bob,Mr Prins & Rick thanks so much for the advise.I will try
the two part epoxy filler.Will i have to rotate the fuselauge or can
this be done with out having rivets up.I assume it will not stay in
rivets unless they are in a flat up position.Also thanks to any other
replies i may get.



Alvin 778R



-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Drew





-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

That is one of the interesting properties of galvanic protection such as
plain old galvanizing. Up to a point (width of the scratch) you can
scratch off the coating and the underlying metal will still be protected.
Ken

According to the rivet manufacturer, the phosphoric (?) coating on
the steel mandrels is supposed to prevent corrosion, even across the
break where the mandrel shears off .....

......bobp

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------