The Murphy Builders Site

I am currently building the SR wings incorporating the 3500 mod. There is a
problem in doing this with the fuel section. The directions for the 3500 mod
doesn't work so well if you are building the wings from scratch. The problem
is with the leading edge doubler because it overlaps into not only the top
fuel skin but also the top wing skin. Therefore, if you follow the directions
of not riveting the top wing skin to the top fuel tank skin until after the
pressure test of the fuel tank, this will not work to well.

I talked to Grant at MAM and he had to give some thought to this problem. He
suggested that I go ahead and rivet the top wing skin to the top fuel tank
skin as well as to the doulber for the leading edgae. Therefore, you would
then check for fuel leaks after the wing is more or less rivetted together (at
least in the fuel area and the leading edge doubler. He also recomended that
with the extended fuel tanks, that I put in access pannels in the 2 remaining
bays on the bottom of the fuel tank skin. Then if there are any leaks, you
will have easy access through the bottom of the fuel tank to get at them and
seal them up.

I would like to add that in building the wings and incorporating the 3500 mod
has been very challenging as well as time consuming. Any suggestions on the
fuel tank area in regards to the 3500 mod is appreciated.

Todd S. Edgar
#95




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Mr. Edgar

I am faced with the same problem. I have a word document with a modified
construction sequence that I am pondering and would like to get your
opinion, but I am hesitant to upload a MicroStuff document to the general
list. Do you have an e-mail address that I could send to direct?

Cheers, rj

R J Thomas
Lafayette, LA
Super Rebel 3500
N140SR
rj.thomas@halliburton.com

-----Original Message-----
From: toddedgar@dcsol.com [mailto:toddedgar@dcsol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 2:31 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: SR Fuel Tank


I am currently building the SR wings incorporating the 3500 mod. There is a

problem in doing this with the fuel section. The directions for the 3500
mod
doesn't work so well if you are building the wings from scratch. The
problem
is with the leading edge doubler because it overlaps into not only the top
fuel skin but also the top wing skin. Therefore, if you follow the
directions
of not riveting the top wing skin to the top fuel tank skin until after the
pressure test of the fuel tank, this will not work to well.

I talked to Grant at MAM and he had to give some thought to this problem.
He
suggested that I go ahead and rivet the top wing skin to the top fuel tank
skin as well as to the doulber for the leading edgae. Therefore, you would
then check for fuel leaks after the wing is more or less rivetted together
(at
least in the fuel area and the leading edge doubler. He also recomended
that
with the extended fuel tanks, that I put in access pannels in the 2
remaining
bays on the bottom of the fuel tank skin. Then if there are any leaks, you
will have easy access through the bottom of the fuel tank to get at them and

seal them up.

I would like to add that in building the wings and incorporating the 3500
mod
has been very challenging as well as time consuming. Any suggestions on the

fuel tank area in regards to the 3500 mod is appreciated.

Todd S. Edgar
#95


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Hi RJ !

You could just go into WORD and SAVE AS a plain text file.
THAT, you should be able to cut and paste right into an email ....

Thanks for NOT sending the M$ stuff - it's of no use to me ...


I AM wondering why so many people are doing all this extra
work to carry fuel in the wings for a few trips a year ! This opens
up all the hazards of condensation in partially filled tanks, weight
and balance problems, etc. ...

Most northern float pilots seem to prefer to take extra cans
of fuel in the baggage area, leave them on the northern dock, and
go into the small lakes LIGHT, knowing that the fuel to get them home
is safe on the shore.

Worst case, you can even hook up a pump to refill the wings
from the drum in the baggage area - this is what the overseas ferry
pilots do. Seems much simpler than heavy structural mods for a relatively
rare trip ! My <personal> range is only about 3 hours !!! ;-) even
though the Rebel is good for almost 5 hours ....

.....bobp

-------------------------------orig.------------------------------------
At 03:01 PM 10/29/01 -0600, you wrote:

Mr. Edgar

I am faced with the same problem. I have a word document with a modified
construction sequence that I am pondering and would like to get your
opinion, but I am hesitant to upload a MicroStuff document to the general
list. Do you have an e-mail address that I could send to direct?

Cheers, rj

R J Thomas
Lafayette, LA
Super Rebel 3500
N140SR
rj.thomas@halliburton.com

-----Original Message-----
From: toddedgar@dcsol.com [mailto:toddedgar@dcsol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 2:31 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: SR Fuel Tank


I am currently building the SR wings incorporating the 3500 mod. There is a

problem in doing this with the fuel section. The directions for the 3500
mod
doesn't work so well if you are building the wings from scratch. The
problem
is with the leading edge doubler because it overlaps into not only the top
fuel skin but also the top wing skin. Therefore, if you follow the
directions
of not riveting the top wing skin to the top fuel tank skin until after the
pressure test of the fuel tank, this will not work to well.

I talked to Grant at MAM and he had to give some thought to this problem.
He
suggested that I go ahead and rivet the top wing skin to the top fuel tank
skin as well as to the doulber for the leading edgae. Therefore, you would
then check for fuel leaks after the wing is more or less rivetted together
(at
least in the fuel area and the leading edge doubler. He also recomended
that
with the extended fuel tanks, that I put in access pannels in the 2
remaining
bays on the bottom of the fuel tank skin. Then if there are any leaks, you
will have easy access through the bottom of the fuel tank to get at them and

seal them up.

I would like to add that in building the wings and incorporating the 3500
mod
has been very challenging as well as time consuming. Any suggestions on the

fuel tank area in regards to the 3500 mod is appreciated.

Todd S. Edgar
#95


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I AM wondering why so many people are doing
all this extra work to carry fuel in the wings for a
few trips a year !

Just my personal opinion, but I tend to agree. With
the IO-540, I plan on a 5.5 range at an average of
15gph, which is a bit on the high side as far as fuel
burn. Could probably be stretched to 6 hours. That's
with the 80 gallon tank. That's plenty of range for me
and my bladder.

Living currently in the UK, and desiring to fly back
over after I move home to the States, I am thinking
about installing a capped off line to the area
adjacent to the rear seat. My plan would be to
fabricate or purchase a 20 or 30 gallon ferry tank
that would strap down in back. The early model
Bonanzas have the same arrangement. My F-35 Bonanza
that I owned a while back had a removable ten gallon
tank in the baggage area. There was a fuel line 'hard
point' next to it that was capped off when removed.

To get fuel to the engine, I would use a 12v fuel pump
to transfer fuel to one tank. Simple and removable. 80
gallons is still enough for me. The point is it would
only be needed once every two or three years.

Just my two cents. I can't be bothered taking the time
to modify my wings.

-Jason

=====
________________________________________________

Jason Beall
Super Rebel No. 131
Aberdeen, Scotland, UK
super_rebel131@yahoo.com

__________________________________________________
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Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
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Right on, Jason !!

I've had no problem getting the Super Rebel down to about
13.2 gallons/hour at cruise with the IO-540 - that was just quick
& easy, with the fuel flow meter ! With a little care and attention
to the EI Scanner, while keeping EGTs below 1,300 degrees, you can see
about 12 - 12.5 GPH easily, even as low as 6,000 feet.

Even with the standard Rebel, which usually hold about
48 - 49 gallons (factory spec. notwithstanding !), range exceeds
<my> endurance ! Many builders are reducing the number of rib bays
in the tank - to 2 on the left and 3 on the right, or even 2 and 2,
with smaller engines. (Figure about 7.5 gallons/bay) Certainly
worth considering if you are using a Subaru - EVERY one I've flown
burned LESS that 6 GPH in cruise. Overall, at least 1/3 to 1/2
LESS than my Lycomings burned, in REGULAR flying - climb, cruise,
glide !! (Theory and dynos, and 'popular belief', VS "the real world"
- I paid the bills !!)

With the O-235, I flew over 6 hours one day, heading down to
Saranac Lake, NY (got caught in fog in the mountains, near sunset !) :-(
When I landed, 120 miles from my destination, I still had about
quarter tanks ! On later Rebel Rambles, I learned to refuel every
SECOND time we stopped with the group - a mixed bag of 65 hp. Champs,
Taylorcraft, all the way up to a straight-tail Bonanza. It was just
silly to be climbing up to 6 or 8,000 ft. dragging along 300 lb.
of fuel - it was harder on the engine, and burnt extra fuel !
Of course, we already had about 200 lb. of camping gear along ! :-)

There's just no point in lugging 300 pounds of fuel around !
With the changes in fuel, and especially if you run auto fuel, having
partial tanks is a REAL hazard - we almost ALWAYS find water in the
912 Rebel tanks if it sits half full for a week ! This only started
in the last year - "improved" formulations in mogas, I guess !!
We also found more water in the 100LL this summer - hardly EVER used
to see it in the Rebel, but I guess all fuel is changing....

The Rebel prototype has always had a fuel line running to
the right side of the baggage area, connected to a flexible line
stored in a pocket there. This line is uncapped and dropped into
a standard red plastic 5 gallon gas can for longer trips - adds
an hour to 1 1/2 hours of endurance, which is handy, as the original
Rebel only held 10.5 gallons TOTAL ! ( about 5 per side )

......bobp

------------------------------------orig.------------------------------
At 12:59 AM 10/30/01 -0800, you wrote:

I AM wondering why so many people are doing
all this extra work to carry fuel in the wings for a
few trips a year !

Just my personal opinion, but I tend to agree. With
the IO-540, I plan on a 5.5 range at an average of
15gph, which is a bit on the high side as far as fuel
burn. Could probably be stretched to 6 hours. That's
with the 80 gallon tank. That's plenty of range for me
and my bladder.

Living currently in the UK, and desiring to fly back
over after I move home to the States, I am thinking
about installing a capped off line to the area
adjacent to the rear seat. My plan would be to
fabricate or purchase a 20 or 30 gallon ferry tank
that would strap down in back. The early model
Bonanzas have the same arrangement. My F-35 Bonanza
that I owned a while back had a removable ten gallon
tank in the baggage area. There was a fuel line 'hard
point' next to it that was capped off when removed.

To get fuel to the engine, I would use a 12v fuel pump
to transfer fuel to one tank. Simple and removable. 80
gallons is still enough for me. The point is it would
only be needed once every two or three years.

Just my two cents. I can't be bothered taking the time
to modify my wings.

-Jason

=====
________________________________________________

Jason Beall
Super Rebel No. 131
Aberdeen, Scotland, UK
super_rebel131@yahoo.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
http://personals.yahoo.com

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On 11/2/2001 1:30 PM, BOB.PATTERSON@CANREM.COM wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:
After reading many questions about fuel quantity in the wings I felt I just
had to add my 2 Canadian cents worth!(1 cent US)After flying a 180 in Canada's
North West Territories for 6 years I soon came to realize that it seemed that I
never had enough fuel range. I always carried from 10-20 gals in jerry cans
inside the plane. There are dam few gas stations,airports or roads for that
matter in the north. Now that I am building a Sr3500 I will have 120 gal in my
tanks where it belongs. (Much safer that transporting fuel in the cabin.)
Remember that while on floats, every lake is a potential toilet, but not every
lake is a gas station!! I bet my friends in Alaska would agree.
-> Gerry
-> Right on, Jason !!
->
-> I've had no problem getting the Super Rebel down to about
-> 13.2 gallons/hour at cruise with the IO-540 - that was just quick
-> & easy, with the fuel flow meter ! With a little care and attention
-> to the EI Scanner, while keeping EGTs below 1,300 degrees, you can see
-> about 12 - 12.5 GPH easily, even as low as 6,000 feet.
->
-> Even with the standard Rebel, which usually hold about
-> 48 - 49 gallons (factory spec. notwithstanding !), range exceeds
-> <my> endurance ! Many builders are reducing the number of rib bays
-> in the tank - to 2 on the left and 3 on the right, or even 2 and 2,
-> with smaller engines. (Figure about 7.5 gallons/bay) Certainly
-> worth considering if you are using a Subaru - EVERY one I've flown
-> burned LESS that 6 GPH in cruise. Overall, at least 1/3 to 1/2
-> LESS than my Lycomings burned, in REGULAR flying - climb, cruise,
-> glide !! (Theory and dynos, and 'popular belief', VS "the real world"
-> - I paid the bills !!)
->
-> With the O-235, I flew over 6 hours one day, heading down to
-> Saranac Lake, NY (got caught in fog in the mountains, near sunset !) :-(
-> When I landed, 120 miles from my destination, I still had about
-> quarter tanks ! On later Rebel Rambles, I learned to refuel every
-> SECOND time we stopped with the group - a mixed bag of 65 hp. Champs,
-> Taylorcraft, all the way up to a straight-tail Bonanza. It was just
-> silly to be climbing up to 6 or 8,000 ft. dragging along 300 lb.
-> of fuel - it was harder on the engine, and burnt extra fuel !
-> Of course, we already had about 200 lb. of camping gear along ! :-)
->
-> There's just no point in lugging 300 pounds of fuel around !
-> With the changes in fuel, and especially if you run auto fuel, having
-> partial tanks is a REAL hazard - we almost ALWAYS find water in the
-> 912 Rebel tanks if it sits half full for a week ! This only started
-> in the last year - "improved" formulations in mogas, I guess !!
-> We also found more water in the 100LL this summer - hardly EVER used
-> to see it in the Rebel, but I guess all fuel is changing....
->
-> The Rebel prototype has always had a fuel line running to
-> the right side of the baggage area, connected to a flexible line
-> stored in a pocket there. This line is uncapped and dropped into
-> a standard red plastic 5 gallon gas can for longer trips - adds
-> an hour to 1 1/2 hours of endurance, which is handy, as the original
-> Rebel only held 10.5 gallons TOTAL ! ( about 5 per side )
->
-> ......bobp
->
-> ------------------------------------orig.------------------------------
-> At 12:59 AM 10/30/01 -0800, you wrote:
-> >
-> >>I AM wondering why so many people are doing
-> >> all this extra work to carry fuel in the wings for a
-> >>few trips a year !
-> >
-> >Just my personal opinion, but I tend to agree. With
-> >the IO-540, I plan on a 5.5 range at an average of
-> >15gph, which is a bit on the high side as far as fuel
-> >burn. Could probably be stretched to 6 hours. That's
-> >with the 80 gallon tank. That's plenty of range for me
-> >and my bladder.
-> >
-> >Living currently in the UK, and desiring to fly back
-> >over after I move home to the States, I am thinking
-> >about installing a capped off line to the area
-> >adjacent to the rear seat. My plan would be to
-> >fabricate or purchase a 20 or 30 gallon ferry tank
-> >that would strap down in back. The early model
-> >Bonanzas have the same arrangement. My F-35 Bonanza
-> >that I owned a while back had a removable ten gallon
-> >tank in the baggage area. There was a fuel line 'hard
-> >point' next to it that was capped off when removed.
-> >
-> >To get fuel to the engine, I would use a 12v fuel pump
-> >to transfer fuel to one tank. Simple and removable. 80
-> >gallons is still enough for me. The point is it would
-> >only be needed once every two or three years.
-> >
-> >Just my two cents. I can't be bothered taking the time
-> >to modify my wings.
-> >
-> >-Jason
-> >
-> >=====
-> >________________________________________________
-> >
-> >Jason Beall
-> >Super Rebel No. 131
-> >Aberdeen, Scotland, UK
-> >super_rebel131@yahoo.com
-> >
-> >__________________________________________________
-> >Do You Yahoo!?
-> >Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
-> >http://personals.yahoo.com
-> >
-> >** To unsubscribe, send e-mail to list-server@dcsol.com with **
-> >** UNSUBSCRIBE MURPHY-REBEL in the message body on a line by itself **
-> >** Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm **
-> >** To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com **
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
->





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