Page 1 of 2

aileron controls

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:17 pm
by Rick DeCiero
<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> Paul,
I just finished the aileron control area. The only horn that hit on my a/c was the left one. It just barely hits the beam flange where the beam turns down. Upon measuring the aileron deflections, I found that when you pull the mixer arm up as far as it will go the ailerons will be up with 10 degrees of reflex from the "neutral position". Be sure to note that the mixer arm in the neutral position is 7/8" down from the upper stop. I thought there was only to be 6 deg of reflex although I have heard of people with 12 deg.
I therefore will limit my up pull on the mixer arm so that the horn does not hit. Six deg of reflex leaves plenty of clearance. I read somewhere in this list that someone either bends the beam flange out of the way or cuts it for the required clearance.
One of the problems that I encountered was that when the flaps are put down, they do not give equal deflection. There is about 2 deg difference between left and right when the flaps are dropped to 25 deg. 25 deg of flap is all I could get. Also in the 10 deg reflex position there is also a 2 deg difference. At 6 deg reflex the difference is negligible. I am convinced that the control geometry is wrong. In the early Rebel Rouser editions there were some mentions of this problem but I did not pay too much attention to it. Maybe my instructions are outdated and or wrong. I have elected to continue regardless of these discrepancies.
About 3 weeks ago I posted to this list a copy of my request to MAC for the aileron info. After at least a week with no response I called the factory for the info. In conflict with the info posted in the mainenance manual available at the MAC website, I was told that there is no way you can get 20 deg up aileron. Well, that is true using the stock components.(Heck, maybe my parts are wrong!!!) I was quoted 15-18 degrees up with 10-12 down. I tried to get further verification of the aileron "neutral position" and travel requiremnets but after a couple of calls with promises of return calls that never happened I finally gave up on the factory offering any help in this critical area. There does not seem to be much differential on my set up. I get almost as much down travel as I do up travel.
Boy those bellcrank bearings are awfully sloppy. This is another area that you will want to repair/replace or redesign.
Good luck you'll need it,
Rick D.

PMi4218393@aol.com wrote:
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Hi everyone.
Fuselage is done up to the firewall on s/n 374. I had some time off so I pulled everything out of the interior and primed it. That's going to be the finish for the interior; it's a utility airplane right? . Reinstalled everything back in and it feels good
to know that a lot of it doesn't have to come back out again!
While putting everything in place I noticed that the control horns that attach to the control tubes will hit the aft spar when either control tube between them and the mixing unit are in the most upper position. Has anyone else come across this and if so wha
t's an appropriate fix? Shift the hanger inboard or shorten the control rods?
Hopefully starting the tail mods this weekend.
Paul Michel
Rebel #374
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aileron controls

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:17 pm
by klehman
I am stopped at the point of rigging the flaperons untill Spring weather
so this is a timely discussion for me.

My manual is clear on insuring that 5.25" of up deflection on the RIGHT
flaperon is available before the control horn in the fuselage hits the
roof bulkhead. That corresponds to just under 21 degrees of up
deflection. So that is the ultimate limit even with all the push rods
disconnected. If I rig everything according to the 1999 manual the
control horn (in the cabin roof torque tube) for the left flaperon sits
slightly lower with the flaperons in neutral. But it looks like the roof
bulkhead curves down more than that slight difference so that I would
have slightly less total left up flaperon than up right flaperon
available. Since I may well try to use two notches (12 degrees) of
reflex for cruise, like some folks here have suggested, I will consider
rivetting these control horns on in a slightly lower position than the
manual recommends if I really get less left control deflection than
right. Shortening the push rods to them would of course keep them from
hitting the roof bulkhead but it reduces the total up flaperon
deflection available in cruise. Maybe it doesn't matter in cruise.

Because the left control horn sits lower with the ailerons in neutral,
extending full flap must indeed pull the right flaperon very slightly
lower than the left one. This may be what Rick is reporting but it looks
to result in such a small control stick deflection though that I am
guessing it is not objectionable in flight. One could tinker with the 90
degree angle at the bottom of diagram 20.7.4 to adjust this effect
somewhat as that angle should indeed affect this.

It would seem that the differential flaperon effect is fixed and
controlled by the geometry of the mixer horn. ie. The shape of the mixer
horn (CC-48-2) insures that for any control stick movement left or right
from neutral, the upgoing flaperon moves up more than the downgoing
flaperon moves down. That would be intentionable and desireable. If
angle "A" in fig 20.7.4 (fig.67A in my older manual) is significantly
different for the right and left side, it would change the differential
effect though.

As I have previously mentioned, the new manual does reverse the position
of the mixer bellcrank and the flap cable on the CC-76 mixer arm. I
would guess that was done mostly to position the vertical push tubes a
bit farther aft so they don't obstruct the door opening.

Don't suppose anyone has the numbers for up and down flaperon or aileron
deflection on their flying rebel. Geert has also asked a couple of times
for those as well. Also do you have less aileron available with the
flaperons reflexed?

cheers
Ken
Rick DeCiero wrote:


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aileron controls

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:17 pm
by Bob Patterson
Hi Ken !

You're welcome to bring out a digital level & check XWI ....
Will try to do it myself in the next few weeks....

You ARE correct - there IS always a slight difference in the
ailerons. You will notice a slight tendency to roll one way when
going from full flap to full reflex, but it is a very small stick
movement to correct. Ideally, it will fly hands off in full reflex,
as that's where you'll spend most time.

You can shorten the pushrods in the cabin to give clearance,
then adjust the pushrods out on the ailerons to balance. There are
lots of places to adjust, and it could fill a day of fiddling
initially ....

<I> would definitely set things up so you can use 2 notches
of reflex (12 degrees), as this WILL give better cruise and ride in
tirbulence if you have over 120 hp.. Someone mentioned that they
could "only" get 24 degrees of down flap - that is TOO MUCH ! The
original spec was 3 notches of 6 degrees each, for a total of
18 degrees at full flap. It really doesn't compare to the Cessna
flaps, as you have a full span flapperon, and it is very effective !

It is VERY important that the bolts holding the bottom
bellcrank and the mixer arm are properly torqued - even a quarter
turn of slop will make a HUGE difference out at the ailerons !!
If you can pre-tension the Teleflex cable before clamping the ends,
it will eliminate a lot of the play there. (have a bit of tension
on the casing ...)

One problem some folks have had is getting the bellcranks
flipped - it pays to double check to see that the loger horna are
on the correct side ...

Many people are worried about the correct settings here, and
the seemingly large amounts of play in the ailerons, (again, compared
to OTHER aircraft) - don't worry about it too much !! The Rebel
flies just GREAT !!!

Keep rivetting - it IS worth it !!! :-)

.....bobp

-----------------------------------orig.------------------------------
At 12:46 PM 10/13/01 -0400, you wrote:
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http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
I am stopped at the point of rigging the flaperons untill Spring weather
so this is a timely discussion for me.

My manual is clear on insuring that 5.25" of up deflection on the RIGHT
flaperon is available before the control horn in the fuselage hits the
roof bulkhead. That corresponds to just under 21 degrees of up
deflection. So that is the ultimate limit even with all the push rods
disconnected. If I rig everything according to the 1999 manual the
control horn (in the cabin roof torque tube) for the left flaperon sits
slightly lower with the flaperons in neutral. But it looks like the roof
bulkhead curves down more than that slight difference so that I would
have slightly less total left up flaperon than up right flaperon
available. Since I may well try to use two notches (12 degrees) of
reflex for cruise, like some folks here have suggested, I will consider
rivetting these control horns on in a slightly lower position than the
manual recommends if I really get less left control deflection than
right. Shortening the push rods to them would of course keep them from
hitting the roof bulkhead but it reduces the total up flaperon
deflection available in cruise. Maybe it doesn't matter in cruise.

Because the left control horn sits lower with the ailerons in neutral,
extending full flap must indeed pull the right flaperon very slightly
lower than the left one. This may be what Rick is reporting but it looks
to result in such a small control stick deflection though that I am
guessing it is not objectionable in flight. One could tinker with the 90
degree angle at the bottom of diagram 20.7.4 to adjust this effect
somewhat as that angle should indeed affect this.

It would seem that the differential flaperon effect is fixed and
controlled by the geometry of the mixer horn. ie. The shape of the mixer
horn (CC-48-2) insures that for any control stick movement left or right
from neutral, the upgoing flaperon moves up more than the downgoing
flaperon moves down. That would be intentionable and desireable. If
angle "A" in fig 20.7.4 (fig.67A in my older manual) is significantly
different for the right and left side, it would change the differential
effect though.

As I have previously mentioned, the new manual does reverse the position
of the mixer bellcrank and the flap cable on the CC-76 mixer arm. I
would guess that was done mostly to position the vertical push tubes a
bit farther aft so they don't obstruct the door opening.

Don't suppose anyone has the numbers for up and down flaperon or aileron
deflection on their flying rebel. Geert has also asked a couple of times
for those as well. Also do you have less aileron available with the
flaperons reflexed?

cheers
Ken
Rick DeCiero wrote:
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aileron controls

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:17 pm
by Walter Klatt
It's been a few years since I set up my controls, but I do remember a lot
of fiddling, checking other Rebels, and talking to lots of people to figure
out how to do mine. Anyway, I am happy with the way it flies now, and just
checked again some measurements as they are today on my flying Rebel.

The flaperons drop down a full 25 degrees from the neutral position. My
reflex, though, only goes up to 6 degrees. When the flap handle is in the
full down position, I have it set so that the mixer arm is tight against the
bottom stop, and there is no play in the flap cable. When the flap handle is
at neutral, there is only 5/8 " space at the top of the mixer arm, not 7/8
as I believe the manual specifies. In the reflex position, there is still
1/8 " clearance at the top of the mixer arm. My total mixer space, bottom
stop to top stop is 4 inches.

When in reflex, the tops of the push pull tubes will contact the cabin
bulkhead before full aileron can be applied. However, that is not a problem
in cruise, as it doesn't take much aileron to bank it, and I don't come
close to contacting the bulkhead. In the neutral position, there is no
contact.

My aileron push-pull tubes out on the wing are 6 7/8 " long, bolt centre to
bolt centre, which I think were also shorter than the manual specified. They
can be adjusted to be longer which would then give me less full flap
deflection, and more reflex. However, I like it the way it is, as it makes
my full flaps more effective and my stall is significantly lower. I know
some other Rebels locally here that had less down travel, and combined with
the flex and slop in the mechanism, didn't have very effective flaps.

I do have my fin offset 3/4 inch and it seems to be just right for my Rebel.
I still need right rudder on take off and climb, but in cruise, I can fly
hands and feet off with no slip to one side.

Anyway, that's how my Rebel controls are set up. I am not saying that this
is right, or that's how they should be, but it seems to work OK for me.

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Bob Patterson
Sent: October 13, 2001 8:28 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: aileron controls


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Hi Ken !

You're welcome to bring out a digital level & check XWI ....
Will try to do it myself in the next few weeks....

You ARE correct - there IS always a slight difference in the
ailerons. You will notice a slight tendency to roll one way when
going from full flap to full reflex, but it is a very small stick
movement to correct. Ideally, it will fly hands off in full reflex,
as that's where you'll spend most time.

You can shorten the pushrods in the cabin to give clearance,
then adjust the pushrods out on the ailerons to balance. There are
lots of places to adjust, and it could fill a day of fiddling
initially ....

<I> would definitely set things up so you can use 2 notches
of reflex (12 degrees), as this WILL give better cruise and ride in
tirbulence if you have over 120 hp.. Someone mentioned that they
could "only" get 24 degrees of down flap - that is TOO MUCH ! The
original spec was 3 notches of 6 degrees each, for a total of
18 degrees at full flap. It really doesn't compare to the Cessna
flaps, as you have a full span flapperon, and it is very effective !

It is VERY important that the bolts holding the bottom
bellcrank and the mixer arm are properly torqued - even a quarter
turn of slop will make a HUGE difference out at the ailerons !!
If you can pre-tension the Teleflex cable before clamping the ends,
it will eliminate a lot of the play there. (have a bit of tension
on the casing ...)

One problem some folks have had is getting the bellcranks
flipped - it pays to double check to see that the loger horna are
on the correct side ...

Many people are worried about the correct settings here, and
the seemingly large amounts of play in the ailerons, (again, compared
to OTHER aircraft) - don't worry about it too much !! The Rebel
flies just GREAT !!!

Keep rivetting - it IS worth it !!! :-)

.....bobp

-----------------------------------orig.------------------------------
At 12:46 PM 10/13/01 -0400, you wrote:
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The list archives are located at:
http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
I am stopped at the point of rigging the flaperons untill Spring weather
so this is a timely discussion for me.

My manual is clear on insuring that 5.25" of up deflection on the RIGHT
flaperon is available before the control horn in the fuselage hits the
roof bulkhead. That corresponds to just under 21 degrees of up
deflection. So that is the ultimate limit even with all the push rods
disconnected. If I rig everything according to the 1999 manual the
control horn (in the cabin roof torque tube) for the left flaperon sits
slightly lower with the flaperons in neutral. But it looks like the roof
bulkhead curves down more than that slight difference so that I would
have slightly less total left up flaperon than up right flaperon
available. Since I may well try to use two notches (12 degrees) of
reflex for cruise, like some folks here have suggested, I will consider
rivetting these control horns on in a slightly lower position than the
manual recommends if I really get less left control deflection than
right. Shortening the push rods to them would of course keep them from
hitting the roof bulkhead but it reduces the total up flaperon
deflection available in cruise. Maybe it doesn't matter in cruise.

Because the left control horn sits lower with the ailerons in neutral,
extending full flap must indeed pull the right flaperon very slightly
lower than the left one. This may be what Rick is reporting but it looks
to result in such a small control stick deflection though that I am
guessing it is not objectionable in flight. One could tinker with the 90
degree angle at the bottom of diagram 20.7.4 to adjust this effect
somewhat as that angle should indeed affect this.

It would seem that the differential flaperon effect is fixed and
controlled by the geometry of the mixer horn. ie. The shape of the mixer
horn (CC-48-2) insures that for any control stick movement left or right
from neutral, the upgoing flaperon moves up more than the downgoing
flaperon moves down. That would be intentionable and desireable. If
angle "A" in fig 20.7.4 (fig.67A in my older manual) is significantly
different for the right and left side, it would change the differential
effect though.

As I have previously mentioned, the new manual does reverse the position
of the mixer bellcrank and the flap cable on the CC-76 mixer arm. I
would guess that was done mostly to position the vertical push tubes a
bit farther aft so they don't obstruct the door opening.

Don't suppose anyone has the numbers for up and down flaperon or aileron
deflection on their flying rebel. Geert has also asked a couple of times
for those as well. Also do you have less aileron available with the
flaperons reflexed?

cheers
Ken
Rick DeCiero wrote:
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aileron controls

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:17 pm
by Wayne G. O'Shea
That's the only part that matters Walter!!!!!!!

Wayne

Walter said:
I am not saying that this is right, or that's how they should be, but it
seems to work OK for me.





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aileron controls

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:17 pm
by Walter Klatt
Yeah, although with all this talk about 12 degrees reflex, I might have to
try some fiddling again, to see if it does speed up cruise some more.
However, the weather out here on the wet coast is not too conducive to
testing this time of year, so it might be awhile.

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: October 14, 2001 4:59 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: aileron controls


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That's the only part that matters Walter!!!!!!!

Wayne

Walter said:
I am not saying that this is right, or that's how they should be, but it
seems to work OK for me.



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aileron controls

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:17 pm
by Charles Bailey
I went out to the Airport and took a look a my numbers.
Don't suppose anyone has the numbers for up and down flaperon or aileron
deflection on their flying rebel. Geert has also asked a couple of times
for those as well. Also do you have less aileron available with the
flaperons reflexed?
Taken at Trailing Edge of Flaperon:

Up Aileron 2 1/2" +10.8 deg.
Down Aileron 2 1/4" -10 deg
Down Full flaperon 5 3/8" - 26 deg
Down Aileron + flaperon 8 1/4" - 40 deg
Full Reflex 3" + 12 deg (two notches)

Note: Wind loads reduce these numbers due to the Teleflex cable, but that's
ok, it still fly's well anyway. If you are building a Flap/Aileron Rebel
you will need more Aileron travel.

Chuck
Rebel 176 N225PC

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@home.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2001 4:30 PM
Subject: RE: aileron controls


*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
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*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
It's been a few years since I set up my controls, but I do remember a lot
of fiddling, checking other Rebels, and talking to lots of people to
figure
out how to do mine. Anyway, I am happy with the way it flies now, and just
checked again some measurements as they are today on my flying Rebel.

The flaperons drop down a full 25 degrees from the neutral position. My
reflex, though, only goes up to 6 degrees. When the flap handle is in the
full down position, I have it set so that the mixer arm is tight against
the
bottom stop, and there is no play in the flap cable. When the flap handle
is
at neutral, there is only 5/8 " space at the top of the mixer arm, not 7/8
as I believe the manual specifies. In the reflex position, there is still
1/8 " clearance at the top of the mixer arm. My total mixer space, bottom
stop to top stop is 4 inches.

When in reflex, the tops of the push pull tubes will contact the cabin
bulkhead before full aileron can be applied. However, that is not a
problem
in cruise, as it doesn't take much aileron to bank it, and I don't come
close to contacting the bulkhead. In the neutral position, there is no
contact.

My aileron push-pull tubes out on the wing are 6 7/8 " long, bolt centre
to
bolt centre, which I think were also shorter than the manual specified.
They
can be adjusted to be longer which would then give me less full flap
deflection, and more reflex. However, I like it the way it is, as it makes
my full flaps more effective and my stall is significantly lower. I know
some other Rebels locally here that had less down travel, and combined
with
the flex and slop in the mechanism, didn't have very effective flaps.

I do have my fin offset 3/4 inch and it seems to be just right for my
Rebel.
I still need right rudder on take off and climb, but in cruise, I can fly
hands and feet off with no slip to one side.

Anyway, that's how my Rebel controls are set up. I am not saying that this
is right, or that's how they should be, but it seems to work OK for me.

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Bob Patterson
Sent: October 13, 2001 8:28 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: aileron controls


*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The list archives are located at:
http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Hi Ken !

You're welcome to bring out a digital level & check XWI ....
Will try to do it myself in the next few weeks....

You ARE correct - there IS always a slight difference in the
ailerons. You will notice a slight tendency to roll one way when
going from full flap to full reflex, but it is a very small stick
movement to correct. Ideally, it will fly hands off in full reflex,
as that's where you'll spend most time.

You can shorten the pushrods in the cabin to give clearance,
then adjust the pushrods out on the ailerons to balance. There are
lots of places to adjust, and it could fill a day of fiddling
initially ....

<I> would definitely set things up so you can use 2 notches
of reflex (12 degrees), as this WILL give better cruise and ride in
tirbulence if you have over 120 hp.. Someone mentioned that they
could "only" get 24 degrees of down flap - that is TOO MUCH ! The
original spec was 3 notches of 6 degrees each, for a total of
18 degrees at full flap. It really doesn't compare to the Cessna
flaps, as you have a full span flapperon, and it is very effective !

It is VERY important that the bolts holding the bottom
bellcrank and the mixer arm are properly torqued - even a quarter
turn of slop will make a HUGE difference out at the ailerons !!
If you can pre-tension the Teleflex cable before clamping the ends,
it will eliminate a lot of the play there. (have a bit of tension
on the casing ...)

One problem some folks have had is getting the bellcranks
flipped - it pays to double check to see that the loger horna are
on the correct side ...

Many people are worried about the correct settings here, and
the seemingly large amounts of play in the ailerons, (again, compared
to OTHER aircraft) - don't worry about it too much !! The Rebel
flies just GREAT !!!

Keep rivetting - it IS worth it !!! :-)

.....bobp

-----------------------------------orig.------------------------------
At 12:46 PM 10/13/01 -0400, you wrote:

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The list archives are located at:
http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
I am stopped at the point of rigging the flaperons untill Spring weather
so this is a timely discussion for me.

My manual is clear on insuring that 5.25" of up deflection on the RIGHT
flaperon is available before the control horn in the fuselage hits the
roof bulkhead. That corresponds to just under 21 degrees of up
deflection. So that is the ultimate limit even with all the push rods
disconnected. If I rig everything according to the 1999 manual the
control horn (in the cabin roof torque tube) for the left flaperon sits
slightly lower with the flaperons in neutral. But it looks like the roof
bulkhead curves down more than that slight difference so that I would
have slightly less total left up flaperon than up right flaperon
available. Since I may well try to use two notches (12 degrees) of
reflex for cruise, like some folks here have suggested, I will consider
rivetting these control horns on in a slightly lower position than the
manual recommends if I really get less left control deflection than
right. Shortening the push rods to them would of course keep them from
hitting the roof bulkhead but it reduces the total up flaperon
deflection available in cruise. Maybe it doesn't matter in cruise.

Because the left control horn sits lower with the ailerons in neutral,
extending full flap must indeed pull the right flaperon very slightly
lower than the left one. This may be what Rick is reporting but it looks
to result in such a small control stick deflection though that I am
guessing it is not objectionable in flight. One could tinker with the 90
degree angle at the bottom of diagram 20.7.4 to adjust this effect
somewhat as that angle should indeed affect this.

It would seem that the differential flaperon effect is fixed and
controlled by the geometry of the mixer horn. ie. The shape of the mixer
horn (CC-48-2) insures that for any control stick movement left or right
from neutral, the upgoing flaperon moves up more than the downgoing
flaperon moves down. That would be intentionable and desireable. If
angle "A" in fig 20.7.4 (fig.67A in my older manual) is significantly
different for the right and left side, it would change the differential
effect though.

As I have previously mentioned, the new manual does reverse the position
of the mixer bellcrank and the flap cable on the CC-76 mixer arm. I
would guess that was done mostly to position the vertical push tubes a
bit farther aft so they don't obstruct the door opening.

Don't suppose anyone has the numbers for up and down flaperon or aileron
deflection on their flying rebel. Geert has also asked a couple of times
for those as well. Also do you have less aileron available with the
flaperons reflexed?

cheers
Ken
Rick DeCiero wrote:
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aileron controls

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:17 pm
by klehman
thank you Chuck, Walter, and Bob

You all helped me understand this a little better.
I like the idea of having the flap cable pull tight against a stop at
max flap to take the play out of the cable. And it makes things much
easier to set up with some idea of what the deflections are going to be.
Considerably less aileron deflection than I was expecting.

Interesting that there seems to be a tendancy to use more than the 18
degrees of flaperon that MAM seems to specify and Bob has emphasized (3
notches spaced a half inch apart). Wonder if they would consider
approving this, perhaps with a specified max speed limit and in smooth
air only or something. I can see why they'd rather ignore it but the
design of the mixer arm and its built in limits almost seem to allow for
it. Several airplanes do indeed have a lower max speed limit for full
flap.

Ken




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aileron controls

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:17 pm
by LisaFly99
In a message dated 10/15/01 8:30:01 AM Central Daylight Time, klehman@albedo.net writes:

Interesting that there seems to be a tendancy to use more than the 18
degrees of flaperon that MAM seems to specify and Bob has emphasized (3
notches spaced a half inch apart). Wonder if they would consider
approving this, perhaps with a specified max speed limit and in smooth
air only


KEN
If you set up you're system with all the slop and play out of it 18 deg. is all you'll need. The flaperons are twice as long as a cessna so you only need 1/2 as much. Put very basically
Phil&Lisa Smith
N414D.

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aileron controls

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:17 pm
by Drew and Jan
If you can pre-tension the Teleflex cable before clamping the ends,
it will eliminate a lot of the play there. (have a bit of tension
on the casing ...)
OK Bob I'm totally confused. How can I pre-tension a curved cable?
Drew
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aileron controls

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:17 pm
by Bob Patterson
Hard to explain ..... If the ends are connected and the cover
is free, fasten one end of the cover, then push the cover back from
the other end until it puts pressure on the cable, then clamp. This
can help eliminate some of the slop in the core (until it wears a bit :-( ).

.....bobp

------------------------orig.----------------------------------------------
At 02:27 PM 10/15/01 -0400, you wrote:
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If you can pre-tension the Teleflex cable before clamping the ends,
it will eliminate a lot of the play there. (have a bit of tension
on the casing ...)
OK Bob I'm totally confused. How can I pre-tension a curved cable?
Drew
-----------------------------------------------------



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aileron controls

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:17 pm
by Drew and Jan
Ok so if I follow you I should try to compress it as much as I can. Well
I'll give it a try because theres certainly lots of slop in my cable.
Drew

At 06:13 PM 10/15/01 -0400, you wrote:
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Hard to explain ..... If the ends are connected and the cover
is free, fasten one end of the cover, then push the cover back from
the other end until it puts pressure on the cable, then clamp. This
can help eliminate some of the slop in the core (until it wears a bit :-( ).

.....bobp

------------------------orig.----------------------------------------------
At 02:27 PM 10/15/01 -0400, you wrote:
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The list archives are located at:
http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
If you can pre-tension the Teleflex cable before clamping the ends,
it will eliminate a lot of the play there. (have a bit of tension
on the casing ...)
OK Bob I'm totally confused. How can I pre-tension a curved cable?
Drew
-----------------------------------------------------



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aileron controls

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:17 pm
by Charles Bailey
Drew,

The cable is in Tension for flaps and Compression for reflex. So you are trading more flaps for less reflex, if I read Bob's mail correct.

Chuck Bailey
Rebel 176

N225PC










From: Drew and Jan
Reply-To:
Subject: Re: aileron controls
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 22:02:12 -0400
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Ok so if I follow you I should try to compress it as much as I can. Well
I'll give it a try because theres certainly lots of slop in my cable.
Drew
At 06:13 PM 10/15/01 -0400, you wrote:
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The list archives are located at:
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Hard to explain ..... If the ends are connected and the cover
is free, fasten one end of the cover, then push the cover back from
the other end until it puts pressure on the cable, then clamp. This
can help eliminate some of the slop in the core (until it wears a bit :-( ).
.....bobp
------------------------orig.----------------------------------------------
At 02:27 PM 10/15/01 -0400, you wrote:
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The list archives are located at:
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OK Bob I'm totally confused. How can I pre-tension a curved cable?
Drew
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aileron controls

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:17 pm
by Walter Klatt
The old paper POH from MAM referenced 18 degree flap settings, but I have
noticed that the new POH for the O320 version found on the web under
Technical Support for the Rebel, shows 30 degrees as the flap position. This
is on page 8 of that manual where it shows the critical speeds in the blue
box. The stall speed at 30 degrees flaps, no power, is given as 34 kts.

So, take your pick, Ken...
-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
klehman

Interesting that there seems to be a tendancy to use more than the 18
degrees of flaperon that MAM seems to specify and Bob has emphasized (3
notches spaced a half inch apart).


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aileron controls

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:17 pm
by klehman
Interesting! Maybe they are only stalling one wing. 18 degrees of flap
plus about 11 degrees of aileron.... :)
Ken

Walter Klatt wrote:
The old paper POH from MAM referenced 18 degree flap settings, but I have
noticed that the new POH for the O320 version found on the web under
Technical Support for the Rebel, shows 30 degrees as the flap position. This
is on page 8 of that manual where it shows the critical speeds in the blue
box. The stall speed at 30 degrees flaps, no power, is given as 34 kts.

So, take your pick, Ken...



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