The Murphy Builders Site

Bob P.
Awhile back you mentioned ceramic coating exhaust. I needed to do something with the headers on my 2.2 Subaru so I looked into it. Took a temperature reading under the cowl before I sent my exhaust in to be coated. Got the headers back last Friday put the m on this morning Monday and did an hour run up from idle to full throttle. There was an 80 degree difference under the cowl. Both on a mid sixty degree day with just a breeze. After I shut it down nine minutes later I reached under and touched the exhaust an d you could put you're hand on it without getting burned. It was very warm but not hot. Should help the exhaust last for a long time, it shouldn't rust. Thanks for the insight.
Phil&Lisa Smith #460 N414D

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In a message dated 10/9/01 10:44:51 PM Central Daylight Time, scott.hibbs@dcsol.com writes:

Trying to make the exhaust fit within the cowling
is a challenge, glad to hear about the ceramic
coating as the stack will be close to the cowl at
one point.

SCOTT
I talked to several companies that do ceramic coating. And they all said they could coat the headers or manifold section and the exhaust section of aircraft systems. But not the heat muff section because it wouldn't put out enough heat to work right.
Phil&Lisa Smith #460R N414D

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Hi Phil !

Glad to help ! I think we'll see a lot more ceramic coating
on exhausts and valves & pistons too - it's a great way to protect parts
from heat. Those are impressive heat reduction numbers !!

I promised to pass on the name of a fellow nearby who will do
ceramic coating on aircraft exhausts, so I'm CC'ing this to another
homebuilder (He's building a Model A - Pietenpol !!).

The fellow who has the ceramic coating shop is Rob Luke, and
he lives in Minden, Ont., and his phone number is:
(705) 286-3682 or (705) 879-1138

Rob has been doing ceramic coatings for several years for
sports cars, and is very willing to experiment on builders needs
for homebuilts. Pricing would be very reasonable ...
I told him I'd try to get some builders to give it a try.

As someone mentioned, for those who are going to try ceramic
coating to lower engine compartment temperatures, don't forget NOT
to coat the areas inside the heat muffs for carb and cockpit heaters.
Otherwise, you might be pretty cool this winter !! ;-)

.....bobp

------------------------------------orig.-----------------------------
At 06:31 PM 10/8/01 EDT, you wrote:

Bob P.
Awhile back you mentioned ceramic coating exhaust. I needed to do something
with the headers on my 2.2 Subaru so I looked into it. Took a temperature
reading under the cowl before I sent my exhaust in to be coated. Got the
headers back last Friday put them on this morning Monday and did an hour run
up from idle to full throttle. There was an 80 degree difference under the
cowl. Both on a mid sixty degree day with just a breeze. After I shut it down
nine minutes later I reached under and touched the exhaust and you could put
you're hand on it without getting burned. It was very warm but not hot.
Should help the exhaust last for a long time, it shouldn't rust. Thanks for
the insight.
Phil&Lisa Smith #460 N414D

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All,


West coast USA Ceramic coating:
http://www.performancecoatings.com/pcintro.html
or http://www.performancecoatings.com

Chuck Bailey
Rebel 176

N225PC

From: Bob Patterson

Reply-To:

To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com

CC: pcowan@dehavilland.ca

Subject: Re: Ceramic coating

Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 23:56:54 -0400

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Hi Phil !

Glad to help ! I think we'll see a lot more ceramic coating

on exhausts and valves & pistons too - it's a great way to protect parts

from heat. Those are impressive heat reduction numbers !!

I promised to pass on the name of a fellow nearby who will do

ceramic coating on aircraft exhausts, so I'm CC'ing this to another

homebuilder (He's building a Model A - Pietenpol !!).

The fellow who has the ceramic coating shop is Rob Luke, and

he lives in Minden, Ont., and his phone number is:

(705) 286-3682 or (705) 879-1138

Rob has been doing ceramic coatings for several years for

sports cars, and is very willing to experiment on builders needs

for homebuilts. Pricing would be very reasonable ...

I told him I'd try to get some builders to give it a try.

As someone mentioned, for those who are going to try ceramic

coating to lower engine compartment temperatures, don't forget NOT

to coat the areas inside the heat muffs for carb and cockpit heaters.

Otherwise, you might be pretty cool this winter !! ;-)

.....bobp

------------------------------------orig.-----------------------------

At 06:31 PM 10/8/01 EDT, you wrote:

Bob P.

Awhile back you mentioned ceramic coating exhaust. I needed to do something

with the headers on my 2.2 Subaru so I looked into it. Took a temperature

reading under the cowl before I sent my exhaust in to be coated. Got the

headers back last Friday put them on this morning Monday and did an hour run

up from idle to full throttle. There was an 80 degree difference under the

cowl. Both on a mid sixty degree day with just a breeze. After I shut it down

nine minutes later I reached under and touched the exhaust and you could put

you're hand on it without getting burned. It was very warm but not hot.

Should help the exhaust last for a long time, it shouldn't rust. Thanks for

the insight.

Phil&Lisa Smith #460 N414D

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I am having a new 2" stainless exhaust built locally (0-320-A2B with
high oil temps and going on amphibs) and have been looking for a company
in the SW Ont. to coat it for me.While searching for a shop to do this I
have been in a local shop that does performance work for the formula
race car market.They recomended wrapping the exhaust with heat tape
(about $1.p/ft) as a more efficient solution from the coatings they have
seen applied to headers in their market.Then I spoke to a local business
that sells to the N/CASCAR market and they said stay away from tape and
cer-coat the headers inside and out.They said Morton Coatings in London
do their V-8 headers for around $400. Any comments, anyone?
...................Angus




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Hey Angus,

I was at the Bothwell Car Show in July (or August??) of 2003, and
there was a guy with a really nice ceramic coated exhaust system on
display. It was coated inside and out. I have looked around, and
cannot at the moment find his card, but I did write to the Rebel list
about this way back then. Anyway, he is in either Ruscom or Belle
River area. I just phoned a buddy in Windsor that knows of him, and
he is to email or phone back to me with a name and phone number later
today or tomorrow if you can wait.

While we were talking about the first guy, my buddy also said that
there is another place he knows in Windsor that has just a started
doing this work. Specialty Brake and Clutch, at 1-519-253-8896, and
ask for Fred Brant.

Worth hearing what more than one shop says about method, quality, and
price, I guess.

Ummmm.... another little thing...this fellow I spoke to at the Car
Show said it would be best if you ask anyone to do this, to suggest
or at least hint that it is for a Subaru (his words.. not mine) or
even a tractor exhaust header, rather than mentioning the word
"airplane".

Take care.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:19:05 -0800, you wrote:

I am having a new 2" stainless exhaust built locally (0-320-A2B with
high oil temps and going on amphibs) and have been looking for a company

in the SW Ont. to coat it for me.While searching for a shop to do this I

have been in a local shop that does performance work for the formula
race car market.They recomended wrapping the exhaust with heat tape
(about $1.p/ft) as a more efficient solution from the coatings they have

seen applied to headers in their market.Then I spoke to a local business

that sells to the N/CASCAR market and they said stay away from tape and
cer-coat the headers inside and out.They said Morton Coatings in London
do their V-8 headers for around $400. Any comments, anyone?
...................Angus




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Hi Angus

While I can offer no first hand experience, I am aware of relatively
fast pipe degradation with all 3 common types of steel exhaust tubing
when wrapped with heat tape. And of course once it is wrapped you likely
won't see any problems before they become severe. Road driven
"performance" vehicles do not run their exhaust systems anywhere near as
hot as your airplane for extended periods of time. Those cars and short
duration race vehicles with budget restrictions probably get away with
wrapping.

In a similar vein I'm not sure if a ceramic coating on only the exterior
of plain steel or 304 stainless is a great idea. At least you would be
able to inspect the pipes frequently but why make those metals even
hotter? If you are going to have someone else do it, I'd want the
interior treatment. I have heard it claimed that if you are only going
to coat the exterior anyway, some of the do it yourself coatings work
fairly well so I wouldn't hesitate to try one of those on 321 stainless.
For 304 stainless some claim it is a good idea to avoid exterior only
treatments closer than about a foot to the exhaust port. I don't know if
that really matters but that section of pipe can indeed run hot enough
to start degrading 304 over time according to what I've read. No problem
at all if the interior has also been treated of course.

Even untreated stainless pipes will be better than plain steel for
keeping heat out of the cowling of course.

Let us know what you decide.

Ken

Angus McKenzie wrote:

I am having a new 2" stainless exhaust built locally (0-320-A2B with
high oil temps and going on amphibs) and have been looking for a company
in the SW Ont. to coat it for me.While searching for a shop to do this I
have been in a local shop that does performance work for the formula
race car market.They recomended wrapping the exhaust with heat tape
(about $1.p/ft) as a more efficient solution from the coatings they have
seen applied to headers in their market.Then I spoke to a local business
that sells to the N/CASCAR market and they said stay away from tape and
cer-coat the headers inside and out.They said Morton Coatings in London
do their V-8 headers for around $400. Any comments, anyone?
...................Angus

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Hi Drew
My older MAM mild steel exhaust has needed to be repaired several times now
and is becoming "carbonized". You can now break bits off the tail pipe.
Anyway I have had the repairs done at a shop that only works in stainless
and specifically 2" sanitary piping for dairies and cheese factories and
that is what they are set up to work with.This shop does all of the fitting
manufacturing for a local composite float company and specialty stainless
work for our local Super Cub clone manufacturer so they are used to working
on aviation stuff. Their work is flawless. Mike Titus from Leavens
recommended opening up the exhaust after I bored the engine and put in the
0-360 high compression pistons with the bigger valves ,also Ross Tripp from
Leggats was at the shop last week working on a Chipmunk and he agreed with
Mike that the larger exhaust would be an enhancement combined with the other
mods. Ross is bringing me an 0-320 core next week to use as a jig. Thems' my
reasons. We'll see how it all works out.
Had all of my float control mounts for the dash, pump,tank mount made and in
then decided to redo everything all on a pedestal between the seats with
minimal plumbing so am making a new alum oil tank,etc, etc.
One of Clare Sceily's guys dropped off a Clamar gear pump assy yesterday for
a Rebel at the shop is it ever a nice unit,a bit heavy 20#s.
Regards, Angus



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Hi Angus !

I'm with Ken ! Rick , in Newfoundland, used wrapped pipes on his
his Subaru amphib Rebel for a couple of years, before having a forced landing
at a remote lake because of high temps. He discovered there was nothing left
under the wraps !!! And the high temps were from flames exitting a gap
in the wrapping, blowing onto his gascolator !!!!!!!!!!! From that,
I'd say that wraps are NOT "A Good Thing"(tm) ! ;-)

The fellow I spoke to about inside coating was Rob Luke, from
north of Peterborough (Minden ??). He has been doing custom sports car
exhausts for years, and said he'd be happy to try an airplane exhaust.
Suspect the price would be good, as this would be a new market for him.
I think his wife's email address is: sluke@cancom.net but not sure -
but you can reach him at: (705) 286-3682 .

....bobp



----------------------------orig.-------------------
On Tuesday 27 January 2004 02:27 pm, you wrote:

Hi Angus

While I can offer no first hand experience, I am aware of relatively
fast pipe degradation with all 3 common types of steel exhaust tubing
when wrapped with heat tape. And of course once it is wrapped you likely
won't see any problems before they become severe. Road driven
"performance" vehicles do not run their exhaust systems anywhere near as
hot as your airplane for extended periods of time. Those cars and short
duration race vehicles with budget restrictions probably get away with
wrapping.

In a similar vein I'm not sure if a ceramic coating on only the exterior
of plain steel or 304 stainless is a great idea. At least you would be
able to inspect the pipes frequently but why make those metals even
hotter? If you are going to have someone else do it, I'd want the
interior treatment. I have heard it claimed that if you are only going
to coat the exterior anyway, some of the do it yourself coatings work
fairly well so I wouldn't hesitate to try one of those on 321 stainless.
For 304 stainless some claim it is a good idea to avoid exterior only
treatments closer than about a foot to the exhaust port. I don't know if
that really matters but that section of pipe can indeed run hot enough
to start degrading 304 over time according to what I've read. No problem
at all if the interior has also been treated of course.

Even untreated stainless pipes will be better than plain steel for
keeping heat out of the cowling of course.

Let us know what you decide.

Ken

Angus McKenzie wrote:

I am having a new 2" stainless exhaust built locally (0-320-A2B with
high oil temps and going on amphibs) and have been looking for a company
in the SW Ont. to coat it for me.While searching for a shop to do this I
have been in a local shop that does performance work for the formula
race car market.They recomended wrapping the exhaust with heat tape
(about $1.p/ft) as a more efficient solution from the coatings they have
seen applied to headers in their market.Then I spoke to a local business
that sells to the N/CASCAR market and they said stay away from tape and
cer-coat the headers inside and out.They said Morton Coatings in London
do their V-8 headers for around $400. Any comments, anyone?
...................Angus

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In a message dated 1/27/04 12:02:55 PM Central Standard Time,
lawsonb@mnsi.net writes:

Ummmm.... another little thing...this fellow I spoke to at the Car
Show said it would be best if you ask anyone to do this, to suggest
or at least hint that it is for a Subaru (his words.. not mine) or
even a tractor exhaust header, rather than mentioning the word
"airplane".

BRIAN & ANGUS
I had the headers on a 2.2 Soob on my Rebel coated. It was at a shop in the
states because thats where I live. They had no problems with it going on an
aircraft, They even advertized as doing aircraft. The coating is done on the
inside, and go with the grey - natural ceramic coating. It will take the heat. The
pipes you see with it done inside and out is for looks only. Usualy the
chrome look or colored to match the theme. DO NOT coat the section where a heat
muff will go. It will not get hot enough to work. So that would be the week link
in the exaust system. Buy the way my under the cowl temps droped 80 deg. F
after my headers were coated.
Phil&Lisa Smith
#460R
N414D



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Hi Angus
I've had the wrapping on my pipes for 3 years now with no apperant
deterioration visible when I removed it at my last inspection. My oil temp
dropped 15-20 degrees after instalation. My exhaust is off a piper
tri-pacer of unknown vintage with mild steel tailpipes. Why a 2" exhaust?
Drew

At 09:19 AM 1/27/2004 -0800, you wrote:

I am having a new 2" stainless exhaust built locally (0-320-A2B with
high oil temps and going on amphibs) and have been looking for a company
in the SW Ont. to coat it for me.While searching for a shop to do this I
have been in a local shop that does performance work for the formula
race car market.They recomended wrapping the exhaust with heat tape
(about $1.p/ft) as a more efficient solution from the coatings they have
seen applied to headers in their market.Then I spoke to a local business
that sells to the N/CASCAR market and they said stay away from tape and
cer-coat the headers inside and out.They said Morton Coatings in London
do their V-8 headers for around $400. Any comments, anyone?
...................Angus




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Drew Dalgleish




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Thanks to Phil,bobp,Ken and Brian for your responses about coating our
exhaust.I now have a much better idea of what to do and industry
contacts for even more info.This list certainly is a wealth of
information and a valuable resource tool for us.........Thanks again,
Angus



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