cabin riveting

Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:22 pm

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From: "Charles Skorupa" <chucks@gte.net>
To: "Murphy Rebel" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: cabin riveting
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 22:57:48 -0700
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Hi Dan,
I would not use Proseal. It is primarily used for sealing fuel tanks because
of its high resistance to chemical attack. Save it just in case you need it
later if you develop leaks in your fuel system. There are much cheaper
solutions.
I would also stay away from silicone sealants. They do seal well, but you
cannot paint over them or the surfaces they have contacted, ever. There are
some good marine grade non-silicone caulking, such as BoatLife, that will do
a good job of sealing. I think their generic class is called polysulfides,
or something like that. I intend to seal all of the mating fuselage surfaces
and the rivets on at least the top and sides of the fuselage to keep
rainwater or melting snow out of the cabin.

Good Luck,
- Chuck -
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Morehouse <morehous@az.com>
To: murtech <murtech@murphyair.com>
Cc: murphy-rebel <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Sunday, August 30, 1998 10:05 PM
Subject: cabin riveting

Hello!

When can I rivet the cabin top (fus 28) to the bulkheads? And the
bottoms (fus 39 and 40)? I'm putting in spring gear.

I have no more proseal and plan to use silicone calking for an air
sealant around the cabin. Sounds good?

Dan Morehouse
R280

Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:22 pm

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To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com> (Murphy Rebel)
From: Murphy Aircraft Tech Department <murtech@murphyair.com >
Subject: Re: cabin riveting
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 12:30:56 -0700

At 10:57 PM 8/30/98 -0700, you wrote:

Hi Dan,
I would not use Proseal. It is primarily used for sealing fuel tanks

because

of its high resistance to chemical attack. Save it just in case you need

it

later if you develop leaks in your fuel system. There are much cheaper
solutions.
I would also stay away from silicone sealants. They do seal well, but you
cannot paint over them or the surfaces they have contacted, ever. There

are

some good marine grade non-silicone caulking, such as BoatLife, that will

do

a good job of sealing. I think their generic class is called polysulfides,
or something like that. I intend to seal all of the mating fuselage

surfaces

and the rivets on at least the top and sides of the fuselage to keep
rainwater or melting snow out of the cabin.

Good Luck,
- Chuck -
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Morehouse <morehous@az.com>
To: murtech <murtech@murphyair.com>
Cc: murphy-rebel <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Sunday, August 30, 1998 10:05 PM
Subject: cabin riveting

Hello!

When can I rivet the cabin top (fus 28) to the bulkheads? And the
bottoms (fus 39 and 40)? I'm putting in spring gear.

I have no more proseal and plan to use silicone calking for an air
sealant around the cabin. Sounds good?

Dan Morehouse
R280

Don't use silicone.>>
Murphy Aircraft Mfg. Ltd.
Ph: 1-604-792-5855
Fax: 1-604-792-7006
e-mail: murtech@murphyir.com
Web Site: http://www.murphyair.com

Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:22 pm

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To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com> (Murphy Rebel)
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
Subject: Re: cabin riveting
Message-Id: <E0zDby3-0001wP-00@mail2.toronto.istar.net>
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 17:58:32 -0400

Sounds terrible !! Most silicone gives off acid when it cures - keeps
eating into the aluminum for years !!

Silicone is almost impossible to paint over, as well.

What is the problem people are trying to solve ???!!!! Murphy
supplies epoxy zinc chromate with the kits because this is THE BEST SEALER,
BONDING AGENT, and CORROSION PROTECTION THERE IS !!!

Why the heck don't people use it ???!!!

We only have the epoxy chromate in our joints, and the rivets are
dipped in it. The aircraft have sat outside for over 8 years, and there are
no drips inside (other than the pilot) !!
== ===== ======

If you use something rubbery in the joints, you will not get the
bonding strength of the epoxy, and, if it is too thick, you will even
weaken the joint and increase the shear load on the rivets.

There is a black rubbery adhesive that is now used to seal the
windshields. It come in a caulking gun type cartridge, and is paintable.
This is good stuff for windshields & skylights, and is readily available
through Murphy, or LP Plastics, the windshield guys.

....bobp

-----------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 09:43 PM 8/30/98 -0700, you wrote:

Hello!

When can I rivet the cabin top (fus 28) to the bulkheads? And the
bottoms (fus 39 and 40)? I'm putting in spring gear.

I have no more proseal and plan to use silicone calking for an air
sealant around the cabin. Sounds good?

Dan Morehouse
R280

Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:22 pm

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From: "Tim Carter" <tlcarter@email.msn.com>
To: "'Murphy Rebel'" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: RE: cabin riveting
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 15:33:55 -0700
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Bob:

I read your message to imply putting the cabin mating surfaces together
while the epoxy-chromate is still 'wet'....is that it?

You are referring to the Poly-Fiber epoxy-chromate?

Tim
#438R

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson [mailto:bob.patterson@canrem.com]
Sent: Monday, August 31, 1998 2:59 PM
To: Murphy Rebel
Subject: Re: cabin riveting

Sounds terrible !! Most silicone gives off acid when it cures - keeps
eating into the aluminum for years !!

Silicone is almost impossible to paint over, as well.

What is the problem people are trying to solve ???!!!! Murphy
supplies epoxy zinc chromate with the kits because this is THE BEST SEALER,
BONDING AGENT, and CORROSION PROTECTION THERE IS !!!

Why the heck don't people use it ???!!!

We only have the epoxy chromate in our joints, and the rivets are
dipped in it. The aircraft have sat outside for over 8 years, and there are
no drips inside (other than the pilot) !!
== ===== ======

If you use something rubbery in the joints, you will not get the
bonding strength of the epoxy, and, if it is too thick, you will even
weaken the joint and increase the shear load on the rivets.

There is a black rubbery adhesive that is now used to seal the
windshields. It come in a caulking gun type cartridge, and is paintable.
This is good stuff for windshields & skylights, and is readily available
through Murphy, or LP Plastics, the windshield guys.

....bobp

-----------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 09:43 PM 8/30/98 -0700, you wrote:

Hello!

When can I rivet the cabin top (fus 28) to the bulkheads? And the
bottoms (fus 39 and 40)? I'm putting in spring gear.

I have no more proseal and plan to use silicone calking for an air
sealant around the cabin. Sounds good?

Dan Morehouse
R280

Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:22 pm

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To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com> (Murphy Rebel)
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
Subject: RE: cabin riveting
Message-Id: <E0zE4Pc-0004v9-00@mail2.toronto.istar.net>
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 00:20:53 -0400

YES !!! The Poly-Fiber epoxy chromate is meant to bond surfaces
together WET. It doesn't do any good at all if both surfaces are coated
and allowed to dry before joining them.

.....bobp

(Sorry for the lecture, but this question keeps coming back !)

-----------------------------orig.-----------------------------------
At 03:33 PM 8/31/98 -0700, you wrote:

Bob:

I read your message to imply putting the cabin mating surfaces together
while the epoxy-chromate is still 'wet'....is that it?

You are referring to the Poly-Fiber epoxy-chromate?

Tim
#438R

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson [mailto:bob.patterson@canrem.com]
Sent: Monday, August 31, 1998 2:59 PM
To: Murphy Rebel
Subject: Re: cabin riveting

Sounds terrible !! Most silicone gives off acid when it cures - keeps
eating into the aluminum for years !!

Silicone is almost impossible to paint over, as well.

What is the problem people are trying to solve ???!!!! Murphy
supplies epoxy zinc chromate with the kits because this is THE BEST SEALER,
BONDING AGENT, and CORROSION PROTECTION THERE IS !!!

Why the heck don't people use it ???!!!

We only have the epoxy chromate in our joints, and the rivets are
dipped in it. The aircraft have sat outside for over 8 years, and there are
no drips inside (other than the pilot) !!
== ===== ======

If you use something rubbery in the joints, you will not get the
bonding strength of the epoxy, and, if it is too thick, you will even
weaken the joint and increase the shear load on the rivets.

There is a black rubbery adhesive that is now used to seal the
windshields. It come in a caulking gun type cartridge, and is paintable.
This is good stuff for windshields & skylights, and is readily available
through Murphy, or LP Plastics, the windshield guys.

....bobp

-----------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 09:43 PM 8/30/98 -0700, you wrote:
Hello!

When can I rivet the cabin top (fus 28) to the bulkheads? And the
bottoms (fus 39 and 40)? I'm putting in spring gear.

I have no more proseal and plan to use silicone calking for an air
sealant around the cabin. Sounds good?

Dan Morehouse
R280