1800 Amphibs

Walter Klatt · Post by **Walter Klatt** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:16 pm

I finally got past my problems with the rear gear shock absorbers, and did
some taxi tests last night. Suspension seemed fine, but had some challenges
learning to steer the thing with the brakes. The front retracts have spring
washers, and was wondering exactly how many are needed on top and bottom. I
understand that if you don't have enough, they can shimmy, but too many can
make it difficult to steer. I may have erred on the not shimmy side and am
using 7 on the bottom and 3 on top.

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Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:16 pm

Hi Walter !

I don't recall using ANY wavey ones on the bottom, and 3 or
4 on top seemed to work ok.....

Steering with the brakes gates everybody ! ;-) One thing
to do is just taxi around dragging the brakes for a while, then use
them hard for several turns in each direction. There is a bit of glaze
on them when new, and you have to burn that off to get them to work
well. Steering then gets MUCH easier - you'll find you can turn in a
smaller radius than with the tailwheel !!! :-)

Amphibs are SO easy to land & taxi - the world's best kept
secret !!

....bobp

---------------------------------orig.----------------------------------
At 07:19 AM 8/31/01 -0700, you wrote:

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
I finally got past my problems with the rear gear shock absorbers, and did
some taxi tests last night. Suspension seemed fine, but had some challenges
learning to steer the thing with the brakes. The front retracts have spring
washers, and was wondering exactly how many are needed on top and bottom. I
understand that if you don't have enough, they can shimmy, but too many can
make it difficult to steer. I may have erred on the not shimmy side and am
using 7 on the bottom and 3 on top.

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Walter Klatt · Post by **Walter Klatt** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:16 pm

Thanks, Bob. I was planning to do the first test flight today, but just my
luck, it's pouring rain this morning, and the forecast is not good for the
whole long weekend.

I will try removing a couple of spring washers from the bottom and see how
that works.

With the brakes, I still have the original Murphy set-up, but maybe it's
time to try the new way with the brake cylinders attached to the floor. At
least for floats, this might help, as I had a tendency to push the rudder
and the brake to turn, when only the brake was necessary, and found myself
riding the opposite one, which was definitely not desirable.

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Bob Patterson
Sent: August 31, 2001 7:50 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: 1800 Amphibs

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
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Hi Walter !

I don't recall using ANY wavey ones on the bottom, and 3 or
4 on top seemed to work ok.....

Steering with the brakes gates everybody ! ;-) One thing
to do is just taxi around dragging the brakes for a while, then use
them hard for several turns in each direction. There is a bit of glaze
on them when new, and you have to burn that off to get them to work
well. Steering then gets MUCH easier - you'll find you can turn in a
smaller radius than with the tailwheel !!! :-)

Amphibs are SO easy to land & taxi - the world's best kept
secret !!

....bobp

---------------------------------orig.----------------------------------
At 07:19 AM 8/31/01 -0700, you wrote:

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
I finally got past my problems with the rear gear shock absorbers, and did
some taxi tests last night. Suspension seemed fine, but had some challenges
learning to steer the thing with the brakes. The front retracts have spring
washers, and was wondering exactly how many are needed on top and bottom. I
understand that if you don't have enough, they can shimmy, but too many can
make it difficult to steer. I may have erred on the not shimmy side and am
using 7 on the bottom and 3 on top.

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:16 pm

Walter before you do that first flight, that might need some hard braking
etc, Bob has hit on an item lightly that is absolutely necessary with a new
set of disks and pads. Just like a new engine needs to be run flat out for a
minimum of 2 hours (without a landing during this time unless it's an
absolute emergency) if you want a good ring seat, new brake assemblies need
to be taxied at around 1400 to 1500 RPM (on pavement) lightly riding the
brakes to maintain a slow crawl. Do this the length of the strip and let
cool. Then do it again. You should see a noticeable increase on braking
power after this process, if not do it again. With the amphib I sold (with
well broken in brakes) it taxied and steered okay on the grass. When I went
to pavement one day, with a 15 knot wind straight down the runway, I could
not taxi it from the apron to the threshold without getting out and pointing
it in the right direction a couple times. Not enough brake to counter the
X-wind. I moved the pedal cylinders (bottom) mounting to the floor and it
made a HUGE difference. Wouldn't want them on the floor as a taildragger
though, as in my opinion would be too much brake if you have the newer MAM
wheels. As a taildragger, I have found that the normal brake cylinder
location is strong enough to stand the Rebel on it's nose very easily, so I
sure wouldn't want more brakes when on wheels.

P.S. Remember, don't even try to anticipate the flare. Just keep the forward
momentum going and fly it on (full flaps if no cross wind) at about 65 MPH
until you get used to the height!!! (it worked for me)

Have fun,
Wayne G. O'Shea

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@home.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 9:55 AM
Subject: RE: 1800 Amphibs

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

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http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
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*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

Thanks, Bob. I was planning to do the first test flight today, but just my
luck, it's pouring rain this morning, and the forecast is not good for the
whole long weekend.

I will try removing a couple of spring washers from the bottom and see how
that works.

With the brakes, I still have the original Murphy set-up, but maybe it's
time to try the new way with the brake cylinders attached to the floor. At
least for floats, this might help, as I had a tendency to push the rudder
and the brake to turn, when only the brake was necessary, and found myself
riding the opposite one, which was definitely not desirable.

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Bob Patterson
Sent: August 31, 2001 7:50 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: 1800 Amphibs

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

Hi Walter !

I don't recall using ANY wavey ones on the bottom, and 3 or
4 on top seemed to work ok.....

Steering with the brakes gates everybody ! ;-) One thing
to do is just taxi around dragging the brakes for a while, then use
them hard for several turns in each direction. There is a bit of glaze
on them when new, and you have to burn that off to get them to work
well. Steering then gets MUCH easier - you'll find you can turn in a
smaller radius than with the tailwheel !!! :-)

Amphibs are SO easy to land & taxi - the world's best kept
secret !!

....bobp

---------------------------------orig.----------------------------------
At 07:19 AM 8/31/01 -0700, you wrote:

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
I finally got past my problems with the rear gear shock absorbers, and

did

some taxi tests last night. Suspension seemed fine, but had some

challenges

learning to steer the thing with the brakes. The front retracts have

spring

washers, and was wondering exactly how many are needed on top and bottom.

I

understand that if you don't have enough, they can shimmy, but too many

can

make it difficult to steer. I may have erred on the not shimmy side and

am

using 7 on the bottom and 3 on top.

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Walter Klatt · Post by **Walter Klatt** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:16 pm

The weather broke and I was able to do my test flight after all today.
Everything went well, and you guys are right, this thing is easier to fly on
floats than wheels. Once you set your nose to the right landing attitude
with a little power, it just squeaks on real nice. It is a lot heavier,
though, and it is no longer the climb rocket I had on wheels, but was still
able to see up to 900 feet per minute with two aboard, and 25 g fuel.

Wayne, you were right about the breaking in of the brakes. I had no problem
today with steering.

However, I do have a nose wheel shimmy after the nose comes down. I
currently have 7 spring washers on the bottom and 4 on top. There is still
about a half inch of play, though, on the shaft up and down, but as I
understand, that's the way it is supposed to be. Now, how do I stop this
shimmy? Is it more washers on the top or bottom? Can someone confirm that
this half inch of play up and down is OK?

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: September 1, 2001 7:14 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: 1800 Amphibs

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Walter before you do that first flight, that might need some hard braking
etc, Bob has hit on an item lightly that is absolutely necessary with a new
set of disks and pads. Just like a new engine needs to be run flat out for a
minimum of 2 hours (without a landing during this time unless it's an
absolute emergency) if you want a good ring seat, new brake assemblies need
to be taxied at around 1400 to 1500 RPM (on pavement) lightly riding the
brakes to maintain a slow crawl. Do this the length of the strip and let
cool. Then do it again. You should see a noticeable increase on braking
power after this process, if not do it again. With the amphib I sold (with
well broken in brakes) it taxied and steered okay on the grass. When I went
to pavement one day, with a 15 knot wind straight down the runway, I could
not taxi it from the apron to the threshold without getting out and pointing
it in the right direction a couple times. Not enough brake to counter the
X-wind. I moved the pedal cylinders (bottom) mounting to the floor and it
made a HUGE difference. Wouldn't want them on the floor as a taildragger
though, as in my opinion would be too much brake if you have the newer MAM
wheels. As a taildragger, I have found that the normal brake cylinder
location is strong enough to stand the Rebel on it's nose very easily, so I
sure wouldn't want more brakes when on wheels.

P.S. Remember, don't even try to anticipate the flare. Just keep the forward
momentum going and fly it on (full flaps if no cross wind) at about 65 MPH
until you get used to the height!!! (it worked for me)

Have fun,
Wayne G. O'Shea

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@home.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 9:55 AM
Subject: RE: 1800 Amphibs

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

Thanks, Bob. I was planning to do the first test flight today, but just my
luck, it's pouring rain this morning, and the forecast is not good for the
whole long weekend.

I will try removing a couple of spring washers from the bottom and see how
that works.

With the brakes, I still have the original Murphy set-up, but maybe it's
time to try the new way with the brake cylinders attached to the floor. At
least for floats, this might help, as I had a tendency to push the rudder
and the brake to turn, when only the brake was necessary, and found myself
riding the opposite one, which was definitely not desirable.

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Bob Patterson
Sent: August 31, 2001 7:50 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: 1800 Amphibs

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

Hi Walter !

I don't recall using ANY wavey ones on the bottom, and 3 or
4 on top seemed to work ok.....

Steering with the brakes gates everybody ! ;-) One thing
to do is just taxi around dragging the brakes for a while, then use
them hard for several turns in each direction. There is a bit of glaze
on them when new, and you have to burn that off to get them to work
well. Steering then gets MUCH easier - you'll find you can turn in a
smaller radius than with the tailwheel !!! :-)

Amphibs are SO easy to land & taxi - the world's best kept
secret !!

....bobp

---------------------------------orig.----------------------------------
At 07:19 AM 8/31/01 -0700, you wrote:

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
I finally got past my problems with the rear gear shock absorbers, and

did

some taxi tests last night. Suspension seemed fine, but had some

challenges

learning to steer the thing with the brakes. The front retracts have

spring

washers, and was wondering exactly how many are needed on top and bottom.

I

understand that if you don't have enough, they can shimmy, but too many

can

make it difficult to steer. I may have erred on the not shimmy side and

am

using 7 on the bottom and 3 on top.

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:16 pm

Walter, really starting to wonder about your "pre-builts"! First it was old
style rubbers/washers and now the nose wheel assemblies. In order to put
Howard's together I had to be creative with clamping the nose wheel pivot
shaft and wiggle washers in place, to allow even getting the retention bolt
started into the shaft. ABSOLUTELY NO up and down play what so ever, and hit
and miss on the right number of washers to prevent shimmy. Unless MAM has
changed something in the design of the nose wheel assembly yours isn't
correct. Correct the nose shimmy now as all it takes is about 2 landings on
pavement with a quick flapping "shopping cart" type shimmy to chew the tire
tread right off. It is normal to sometimes have a nose wheel swing back and
forth a couple times if the runway isn't absolutely flat, since one nose
wheel won't be weighted properly if it hits a low spot in the pavement, but
the quick destructive shimmy needs to be corrected immediately

Isn't it fun flying that huge "Radio Flyer" wagon though!!!!!!!!!!!?????.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@home.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 7:12 PM
Subject: RE: 1800 Amphibs

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

The weather broke and I was able to do my test flight after all today.
Everything went well, and you guys are right, this thing is easier to fly

on

floats than wheels. Once you set your nose to the right landing attitude
with a little power, it just squeaks on real nice. It is a lot heavier,
though, and it is no longer the climb rocket I had on wheels, but was

still

able to see up to 900 feet per minute with two aboard, and 25 g fuel.

Wayne, you were right about the breaking in of the brakes. I had no

problem

today with steering.

However, I do have a nose wheel shimmy after the nose comes down. I
currently have 7 spring washers on the bottom and 4 on top. There is still
about a half inch of play, though, on the shaft up and down, but as I
understand, that's the way it is supposed to be. Now, how do I stop this
shimmy? Is it more washers on the top or bottom? Can someone confirm that
this half inch of play up and down is OK?

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: September 1, 2001 7:14 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: 1800 Amphibs

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

Walter before you do that first flight, that might need some hard braking
etc, Bob has hit on an item lightly that is absolutely necessary with a

new

set of disks and pads. Just like a new engine needs to be run flat out for

a

minimum of 2 hours (without a landing during this time unless it's an
absolute emergency) if you want a good ring seat, new brake assemblies

need

to be taxied at around 1400 to 1500 RPM (on pavement) lightly riding the
brakes to maintain a slow crawl. Do this the length of the strip and let
cool. Then do it again. You should see a noticeable increase on braking
power after this process, if not do it again. With the amphib I sold (with
well broken in brakes) it taxied and steered okay on the grass. When I

went

to pavement one day, with a 15 knot wind straight down the runway, I could
not taxi it from the apron to the threshold without getting out and

pointing

it in the right direction a couple times. Not enough brake to counter the
X-wind. I moved the pedal cylinders (bottom) mounting to the floor and it
made a HUGE difference. Wouldn't want them on the floor as a taildragger
though, as in my opinion would be too much brake if you have the newer MAM
wheels. As a taildragger, I have found that the normal brake cylinder
location is strong enough to stand the Rebel on it's nose very easily, so

I

sure wouldn't want more brakes when on wheels.

P.S. Remember, don't even try to anticipate the flare. Just keep the

forward

momentum going and fly it on (full flaps if no cross wind) at about 65 MPH
until you get used to the height!!! (it worked for me)

Have fun,
Wayne G. O'Shea

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@home.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 9:55 AM
Subject: RE: 1800 Amphibs

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

Thanks, Bob. I was planning to do the first test flight today, but just

my

luck, it's pouring rain this morning, and the forecast is not good for

the

whole long weekend.

I will try removing a couple of spring washers from the bottom and see

how

that works.

With the brakes, I still have the original Murphy set-up, but maybe it's
time to try the new way with the brake cylinders attached to the floor.

At

least for floats, this might help, as I had a tendency to push the

rudder

and the brake to turn, when only the brake was necessary, and found

myself

riding the opposite one, which was definitely not desirable.

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Bob Patterson
Sent: August 31, 2001 7:50 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: 1800 Amphibs

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

Hi Walter !

I don't recall using ANY wavey ones on the bottom, and 3 or
4 on top seemed to work ok.....

Steering with the brakes gates everybody ! ;-) One thing
to do is just taxi around dragging the brakes for a while, then use
them hard for several turns in each direction. There is a bit of glaze
on them when new, and you have to burn that off to get them to work
well. Steering then gets MUCH easier - you'll find you can turn in a
smaller radius than with the tailwheel !!! :-)

Amphibs are SO easy to land & taxi - the world's best kept
secret !!

....bobp

---------------------------------orig.----------------------------------
At 07:19 AM 8/31/01 -0700, you wrote:

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
I finally got past my problems with the rear gear shock absorbers, and
did
some taxi tests last night. Suspension seemed fine, but had some
challenges
learning to steer the thing with the brakes. The front retracts have
spring
washers, and was wondering exactly how many are needed on top and

bottom.

I
understand that if you don't have enough, they can shimmy, but too many
can
make it difficult to steer. I may have erred on the not shimmy side and
am
using 7 on the bottom and 3 on top.

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Walter Klatt · Post by **Walter Klatt** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:16 pm

Thanks again, Wayne, for the advice on the washers. I stopped in at Home
Depot and got some more washers to fill the gap on the front wheel retract
shaft, and it worked. I got in a few more touch and go's this evening and no
more shimmy. It's flying really great and a joy to land.

With my prebuilts, I had ordered them a year and half ago, and just got them
a few months ago, so they may not have all the latest mods, but how would I
know? With the rear shock washers, they finally gave me the big blue ones
which did the trick. MAM was still hoping to get the the little yellow ones
to work, and as I understand it, a lot of people are still using them. And
the front retract obviously doesn't work right out of the box or by the
manual.

All I can say, I'm sure glad we have this builders' list, and thanks again
to you, and Bob P. and everyone else for their great help.

Tomorrow if the weather holds, we'll head for the water.

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: September 1, 2001 4:31 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: 1800 Amphibs

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Walter, really starting to wonder about your "pre-builts"! First it was old
style rubbers/washers and now the nose wheel assemblies. In order to put
Howard's together I had to be creative with clamping the nose wheel pivot
shaft and wiggle washers in place, to allow even getting the retention bolt
started into the shaft. ABSOLUTELY NO up and down play what so ever, and hit
and miss on the right number of washers to prevent shimmy. Unless MAM has
changed something in the design of the nose wheel assembly yours isn't
correct. Correct the nose shimmy now as all it takes is about 2 landings on
pavement with a quick flapping "shopping cart" type shimmy to chew the tire
tread right off. It is normal to sometimes have a nose wheel swing back and
forth a couple times if the runway isn't absolutely flat, since one nose
wheel won't be weighted properly if it hits a low spot in the pavement, but
the quick destructive shimmy needs to be corrected immediately

Isn't it fun flying that huge "Radio Flyer" wagon though!!!!!!!!!!!?????.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@home.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 7:12 PM
Subject: RE: 1800 Amphibs

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

The weather broke and I was able to do my test flight after all today.
Everything went well, and you guys are right, this thing is easier to fly

on

floats than wheels. Once you set your nose to the right landing attitude
with a little power, it just squeaks on real nice. It is a lot heavier,
though, and it is no longer the climb rocket I had on wheels, but was

still

able to see up to 900 feet per minute with two aboard, and 25 g fuel.

Wayne, you were right about the breaking in of the brakes. I had no

problem

today with steering.

However, I do have a nose wheel shimmy after the nose comes down. I
currently have 7 spring washers on the bottom and 4 on top. There is still
about a half inch of play, though, on the shaft up and down, but as I
understand, that's the way it is supposed to be. Now, how do I stop this
shimmy? Is it more washers on the top or bottom? Can someone confirm that
this half inch of play up and down is OK?

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: September 1, 2001 7:14 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: 1800 Amphibs

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

Walter before you do that first flight, that might need some hard braking
etc, Bob has hit on an item lightly that is absolutely necessary with a

new

set of disks and pads. Just like a new engine needs to be run flat out for

a

minimum of 2 hours (without a landing during this time unless it's an
absolute emergency) if you want a good ring seat, new brake assemblies

need

to be taxied at around 1400 to 1500 RPM (on pavement) lightly riding the
brakes to maintain a slow crawl. Do this the length of the strip and let
cool. Then do it again. You should see a noticeable increase on braking
power after this process, if not do it again. With the amphib I sold (with
well broken in brakes) it taxied and steered okay on the grass. When I

went

to pavement one day, with a 15 knot wind straight down the runway, I could
not taxi it from the apron to the threshold without getting out and

pointing

it in the right direction a couple times. Not enough brake to counter the
X-wind. I moved the pedal cylinders (bottom) mounting to the floor and it
made a HUGE difference. Wouldn't want them on the floor as a taildragger
though, as in my opinion would be too much brake if you have the newer MAM
wheels. As a taildragger, I have found that the normal brake cylinder
location is strong enough to stand the Rebel on it's nose very easily, so

I

sure wouldn't want more brakes when on wheels.

P.S. Remember, don't even try to anticipate the flare. Just keep the

forward

momentum going and fly it on (full flaps if no cross wind) at about 65 MPH
until you get used to the height!!! (it worked for me)

Have fun,
Wayne G. O'Shea

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@home.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 9:55 AM
Subject: RE: 1800 Amphibs

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

Thanks, Bob. I was planning to do the first test flight today, but just

my

luck, it's pouring rain this morning, and the forecast is not good for

the

whole long weekend.

I will try removing a couple of spring washers from the bottom and see

how

that works.

With the brakes, I still have the original Murphy set-up, but maybe it's
time to try the new way with the brake cylinders attached to the floor.

At

least for floats, this might help, as I had a tendency to push the

rudder

and the brake to turn, when only the brake was necessary, and found

myself

riding the opposite one, which was definitely not desirable.

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Bob Patterson
Sent: August 31, 2001 7:50 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: 1800 Amphibs

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

Hi Walter !

I don't recall using ANY wavey ones on the bottom, and 3 or
4 on top seemed to work ok.....

Steering with the brakes gates everybody ! ;-) One thing
to do is just taxi around dragging the brakes for a while, then use
them hard for several turns in each direction. There is a bit of glaze
on them when new, and you have to burn that off to get them to work
well. Steering then gets MUCH easier - you'll find you can turn in a
smaller radius than with the tailwheel !!! :-)

Amphibs are SO easy to land & taxi - the world's best kept
secret !!

....bobp

---------------------------------orig.----------------------------------
At 07:19 AM 8/31/01 -0700, you wrote:

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
I finally got past my problems with the rear gear shock absorbers, and
did
some taxi tests last night. Suspension seemed fine, but had some
challenges
learning to steer the thing with the brakes. The front retracts have
spring
washers, and was wondering exactly how many are needed on top and

bottom.

I
understand that if you don't have enough, they can shimmy, but too many
can
make it difficult to steer. I may have erred on the not shimmy side and
am
using 7 on the bottom and 3 on top.

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Walter Klatt · Post by **Walter Klatt** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:16 pm

Got 4 hours in on the water yesterday, and everything went really well. It
was easy to find the sweet spot, and when you do, it just surges forward and
you're off. The guy giving me my float endorsement is a high time 180/185
float driver and was very impressed with the performance of the Rebel. We
put it through all the different stalls, tight turns, and sideslips, and he
remarked that this is a very, very safe float plane with no bad habits or
handling of any kind. I don't have another Rebel to compare to in
performance, but it appears that my angle of incidence and c of g settings
seem to have worked out. It also still hauls pretty good in the air, too.
With the wheels up, I was still doing 105 MPH indicated at 2350 RPM and
flaperons in reflex. And this is just with my tooth pick Warp Drive prop, as
some of the conventional guys at my airport call it.

My last float flying was on ultralights about 6 years ago, and man, was it
great to get back on the water! All I can say, is that I can't understand
why anyone would just fly the Rebel on wheels. In my opinion, it handles
better and is easier to fly on floats than wheels, and you have the best of
everything. You definitely lose some climb performance and cruise speed, but
with the right engine, it is still more than adequate.

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Walter Klatt
Sent: September 1, 2001 9:04 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: 1800 Amphibs

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Thanks again, Wayne, for the advice on the washers. I stopped in at Home
Depot and got some more washers to fill the gap on the front wheel retract
shaft, and it worked. I got in a few more touch and go's this evening and no
more shimmy. It's flying really great and a joy to land.

With my prebuilts, I had ordered them a year and half ago, and just got them
a few months ago, so they may not have all the latest mods, but how would I
know? With the rear shock washers, they finally gave me the big blue ones
which did the trick. MAM was still hoping to get the the little yellow ones
to work, and as I understand it, a lot of people are still using them. And
the front retract obviously doesn't work right out of the box or by the
manual.

All I can say, I'm sure glad we have this builders' list, and thanks again
to you, and Bob P. and everyone else for their great help.

Tomorrow if the weather holds, we'll head for the water.

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: September 1, 2001 4:31 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: 1800 Amphibs

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Walter, really starting to wonder about your "pre-builts"! First it was old
style rubbers/washers and now the nose wheel assemblies. In order to put
Howard's together I had to be creative with clamping the nose wheel pivot
shaft and wiggle washers in place, to allow even getting the retention bolt
started into the shaft. ABSOLUTELY NO up and down play what so ever, and hit
and miss on the right number of washers to prevent shimmy. Unless MAM has
changed something in the design of the nose wheel assembly yours isn't
correct. Correct the nose shimmy now as all it takes is about 2 landings on
pavement with a quick flapping "shopping cart" type shimmy to chew the tire
tread right off. It is normal to sometimes have a nose wheel swing back and
forth a couple times if the runway isn't absolutely flat, since one nose
wheel won't be weighted properly if it hits a low spot in the pavement, but
the quick destructive shimmy needs to be corrected immediately

Isn't it fun flying that huge "Radio Flyer" wagon though!!!!!!!!!!!?????.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@home.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 7:12 PM
Subject: RE: 1800 Amphibs

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

The weather broke and I was able to do my test flight after all today.
Everything went well, and you guys are right, this thing is easier to fly

on

floats than wheels. Once you set your nose to the right landing attitude
with a little power, it just squeaks on real nice. It is a lot heavier,
though, and it is no longer the climb rocket I had on wheels, but was

still

able to see up to 900 feet per minute with two aboard, and 25 g fuel.

Wayne, you were right about the breaking in of the brakes. I had no

problem

today with steering.

However, I do have a nose wheel shimmy after the nose comes down. I
currently have 7 spring washers on the bottom and 4 on top. There is still
about a half inch of play, though, on the shaft up and down, but as I
understand, that's the way it is supposed to be. Now, how do I stop this
shimmy? Is it more washers on the top or bottom? Can someone confirm that
this half inch of play up and down is OK?

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: September 1, 2001 7:14 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: 1800 Amphibs

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

Walter before you do that first flight, that might need some hard braking
etc, Bob has hit on an item lightly that is absolutely necessary with a

new

set of disks and pads. Just like a new engine needs to be run flat out for

a

minimum of 2 hours (without a landing during this time unless it's an
absolute emergency) if you want a good ring seat, new brake assemblies

need

to be taxied at around 1400 to 1500 RPM (on pavement) lightly riding the
brakes to maintain a slow crawl. Do this the length of the strip and let
cool. Then do it again. You should see a noticeable increase on braking
power after this process, if not do it again. With the amphib I sold (with
well broken in brakes) it taxied and steered okay on the grass. When I

went

to pavement one day, with a 15 knot wind straight down the runway, I could
not taxi it from the apron to the threshold without getting out and

pointing

it in the right direction a couple times. Not enough brake to counter the
X-wind. I moved the pedal cylinders (bottom) mounting to the floor and it
made a HUGE difference. Wouldn't want them on the floor as a taildragger
though, as in my opinion would be too much brake if you have the newer MAM
wheels. As a taildragger, I have found that the normal brake cylinder
location is strong enough to stand the Rebel on it's nose very easily, so

I

sure wouldn't want more brakes when on wheels.

P.S. Remember, don't even try to anticipate the flare. Just keep the

forward

momentum going and fly it on (full flaps if no cross wind) at about 65 MPH
until you get used to the height!!! (it worked for me)

Have fun,
Wayne G. O'Shea

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@home.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 9:55 AM
Subject: RE: 1800 Amphibs

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

Thanks, Bob. I was planning to do the first test flight today, but just

my

luck, it's pouring rain this morning, and the forecast is not good for

the

whole long weekend.

I will try removing a couple of spring washers from the bottom and see

how

that works.

With the brakes, I still have the original Murphy set-up, but maybe it's
time to try the new way with the brake cylinders attached to the floor.

At

least for floats, this might help, as I had a tendency to push the

rudder

and the brake to turn, when only the brake was necessary, and found

myself

riding the opposite one, which was definitely not desirable.

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Bob Patterson
Sent: August 31, 2001 7:50 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: 1800 Amphibs

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

Hi Walter !

I don't recall using ANY wavey ones on the bottom, and 3 or
4 on top seemed to work ok.....

Steering with the brakes gates everybody ! ;-) One thing
to do is just taxi around dragging the brakes for a while, then use
them hard for several turns in each direction. There is a bit of glaze
on them when new, and you have to burn that off to get them to work
well. Steering then gets MUCH easier - you'll find you can turn in a
smaller radius than with the tailwheel !!! :-)

Amphibs are SO easy to land & taxi - the world's best kept
secret !!

....bobp

---------------------------------orig.----------------------------------
At 07:19 AM 8/31/01 -0700, you wrote:

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
I finally got past my problems with the rear gear shock absorbers, and
did
some taxi tests last night. Suspension seemed fine, but had some
challenges
learning to steer the thing with the brakes. The front retracts have
spring
washers, and was wondering exactly how many are needed on top and

bottom.

I
understand that if you don't have enough, they can shimmy, but too many
can
make it difficult to steer. I may have erred on the not shimmy side and
am
using 7 on the bottom and 3 on top.

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:16 pm

Great to hear she floats Walter!!!! Remember to keep that stick all the way
back when landing, as they stop in a hurray if you don't (as I found out!)

Your right about the handling. I found it extremely stable in the air (no
matter what you throw at it) and easy to land. Seems to get rid of the
desire to suddenly sink and then to ballon when landing but maybe it's just
because of the extra speed flying her on, instead of trying to slow it down
and three point her.

Your cruise speed sounds about right. That is what I saw with FOKM (150 H.P.
and 34 lb - 76 x 50 McCauley clip tip prop) with neutral flaps and I think
about the same as Howard sees with his 150 HP swinging the 40 pound
Sensenich DM74 x 52.

Have fun,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@home.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 10:36 AM
Subject: RE: 1800 Amphibs

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

Got 4 hours in on the water yesterday, and everything went really well. It
was easy to find the sweet spot, and when you do, it just surges forward

and

you're off. The guy giving me my float endorsement is a high time 180/185
float driver and was very impressed with the performance of the Rebel. We
put it through all the different stalls, tight turns, and sideslips, and

he

remarked that this is a very, very safe float plane with no bad habits or
handling of any kind. I don't have another Rebel to compare to in
performance, but it appears that my angle of incidence and c of g settings
seem to have worked out. It also still hauls pretty good in the air, too.
With the wheels up, I was still doing 105 MPH indicated at 2350 RPM and
flaperons in reflex. And this is just with my tooth pick Warp Drive prop,

as

some of the conventional guys at my airport call it.

My last float flying was on ultralights about 6 years ago, and man, was it
great to get back on the water! All I can say, is that I can't understand
why anyone would just fly the Rebel on wheels. In my opinion, it handles
better and is easier to fly on floats than wheels, and you have the best

of

everything. You definitely lose some climb performance and cruise speed,

but

with the right engine, it is still more than adequate.

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Walter Klatt
Sent: September 1, 2001 9:04 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: 1800 Amphibs

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

Thanks again, Wayne, for the advice on the washers. I stopped in at Home
Depot and got some more washers to fill the gap on the front wheel retract
shaft, and it worked. I got in a few more touch and go's this evening and

no

more shimmy. It's flying really great and a joy to land.

With my prebuilts, I had ordered them a year and half ago, and just got

them

a few months ago, so they may not have all the latest mods, but how would

I

know? With the rear shock washers, they finally gave me the big blue ones
which did the trick. MAM was still hoping to get the the little yellow

ones

to work, and as I understand it, a lot of people are still using them. And
the front retract obviously doesn't work right out of the box or by the
manual.

All I can say, I'm sure glad we have this builders' list, and thanks again
to you, and Bob P. and everyone else for their great help.

Tomorrow if the weather holds, we'll head for the water.

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: September 1, 2001 4:31 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: 1800 Amphibs

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

Walter, really starting to wonder about your "pre-builts"! First it was

old

style rubbers/washers and now the nose wheel assemblies. In order to put
Howard's together I had to be creative with clamping the nose wheel pivot
shaft and wiggle washers in place, to allow even getting the retention

bolt

started into the shaft. ABSOLUTELY NO up and down play what so ever, and

hit

and miss on the right number of washers to prevent shimmy. Unless MAM has
changed something in the design of the nose wheel assembly yours isn't
correct. Correct the nose shimmy now as all it takes is about 2 landings

on

pavement with a quick flapping "shopping cart" type shimmy to chew the

tire

tread right off. It is normal to sometimes have a nose wheel swing back

and

forth a couple times if the runway isn't absolutely flat, since one nose
wheel won't be weighted properly if it hits a low spot in the pavement,

but

the quick destructive shimmy needs to be corrected immediately

Isn't it fun flying that huge "Radio Flyer" wagon though!!!!!!!!!!!?????.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@home.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 7:12 PM
Subject: RE: 1800 Amphibs

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

The weather broke and I was able to do my test flight after all today.
Everything went well, and you guys are right, this thing is easier to

fly

on
floats than wheels. Once you set your nose to the right landing attitude
with a little power, it just squeaks on real nice. It is a lot heavier,
though, and it is no longer the climb rocket I had on wheels, but was
still
able to see up to 900 feet per minute with two aboard, and 25 g fuel.

Wayne, you were right about the breaking in of the brakes. I had no
problem
today with steering.

However, I do have a nose wheel shimmy after the nose comes down. I
currently have 7 spring washers on the bottom and 4 on top. There is

still

about a half inch of play, though, on the shaft up and down, but as I
understand, that's the way it is supposed to be. Now, how do I stop this
shimmy? Is it more washers on the top or bottom? Can someone confirm

that

this half inch of play up and down is OK?

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: September 1, 2001 7:14 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: 1800 Amphibs

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

Walter before you do that first flight, that might need some hard

braking

etc, Bob has hit on an item lightly that is absolutely necessary with a
new
set of disks and pads. Just like a new engine needs to be run flat out

for

a
minimum of 2 hours (without a landing during this time unless it's an
absolute emergency) if you want a good ring seat, new brake assemblies
need
to be taxied at around 1400 to 1500 RPM (on pavement) lightly riding the
brakes to maintain a slow crawl. Do this the length of the strip and let
cool. Then do it again. You should see a noticeable increase on braking
power after this process, if not do it again. With the amphib I sold

(with

well broken in brakes) it taxied and steered okay on the grass. When I
went
to pavement one day, with a 15 knot wind straight down the runway, I

could

not taxi it from the apron to the threshold without getting out and
pointing
it in the right direction a couple times. Not enough brake to counter

the

X-wind. I moved the pedal cylinders (bottom) mounting to the floor and

it

made a HUGE difference. Wouldn't want them on the floor as a taildragger
though, as in my opinion would be too much brake if you have the newer

MAM

wheels. As a taildragger, I have found that the normal brake cylinder
location is strong enough to stand the Rebel on it's nose very easily,

so

I
sure wouldn't want more brakes when on wheels.

P.S. Remember, don't even try to anticipate the flare. Just keep the
forward
momentum going and fly it on (full flaps if no cross wind) at about 65

MPH

until you get used to the height!!! (it worked for me)

Have fun,
Wayne G. O'Shea

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@home.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 9:55 AM
Subject: RE: 1800 Amphibs

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

Thanks, Bob. I was planning to do the first test flight today, but

just

my
luck, it's pouring rain this morning, and the forecast is not good for
the
whole long weekend.

I will try removing a couple of spring washers from the bottom and see
how
that works.

With the brakes, I still have the original Murphy set-up, but maybe

it's

time to try the new way with the brake cylinders attached to the

floor.

At
least for floats, this might help, as I had a tendency to push the
rudder
and the brake to turn, when only the brake was necessary, and found
myself
riding the opposite one, which was definitely not desirable.

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf

Of

Bob Patterson
Sent: August 31, 2001 7:50 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: 1800 Amphibs

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

Hi Walter !

I don't recall using ANY wavey ones on the bottom, and 3 or
4 on top seemed to work ok.....

Steering with the brakes gates everybody ! ;-) One thing
to do is just taxi around dragging the brakes for a while, then use
them hard for several turns in each direction. There is a bit of glaze
on them when new, and you have to burn that off to get them to work
well. Steering then gets MUCH easier - you'll find you can turn in a
smaller radius than with the tailwheel !!! :-)

Amphibs are SO easy to land & taxi - the world's best kept
secret !!

....bobp

---------------------------------orig.----------------------------------
At 07:19 AM 8/31/01 -0700, you wrote:

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

and

did
challenges
spring
bottom.
I

many

can

and

am

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Walter Klatt · Post by **Walter Klatt** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:16 pm

I finished my float rating endorsement today, at the end of what was looking
to be a rained out long weekend here on the wet coast. Anyway, flew the heck
out of her, and the only adjustment required was to tighten my cross brace
cables. Gear works great, and takes about 16 pumps up or down. Suspension is
fine, too. And no leaks, either. These really are a fine set of floats on a
great airplane.

So, to all still working on your planes, as others have put it so well, keep
at it, it really is worth it all in the end. I could not be more pleased
after this weekend.

Thanks again to everyone for their help, and hopefully I'll be better
qualified now to give some back on this list.

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: September 3, 2001 9:53 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: 1800 Amphibs

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Great to hear she floats Walter!!!! Remember to keep that stick all the way
back when landing, as they stop in a hurray if you don't (as I found out!)

Your right about the handling. I found it extremely stable in the air (no
matter what you throw at it) and easy to land. Seems to get rid of the
desire to suddenly sink and then to ballon when landing but maybe it's just
because of the extra speed flying her on, instead of trying to slow it down
and three point her.

Your cruise speed sounds about right. That is what I saw with FOKM (150 H.P.
and 34 lb - 76 x 50 McCauley clip tip prop) with neutral flaps and I think
about the same as Howard sees with his 150 HP swinging the 40 pound
Sensenich DM74 x 52.

Have fun,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@home.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 10:36 AM
Subject: RE: 1800 Amphibs

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

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http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
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*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

Got 4 hours in on the water yesterday, and everything went really well. It
was easy to find the sweet spot, and when you do, it just surges forward

and

you're off. The guy giving me my float endorsement is a high time 180/185
float driver and was very impressed with the performance of the Rebel. We
put it through all the different stalls, tight turns, and sideslips, and

he

remarked that this is a very, very safe float plane with no bad habits or
handling of any kind. I don't have another Rebel to compare to in
performance, but it appears that my angle of incidence and c of g settings
seem to have worked out. It also still hauls pretty good in the air, too.
With the wheels up, I was still doing 105 MPH indicated at 2350 RPM and
flaperons in reflex. And this is just with my tooth pick Warp Drive prop,

as

some of the conventional guys at my airport call it.

My last float flying was on ultralights about 6 years ago, and man, was it
great to get back on the water! All I can say, is that I can't understand
why anyone would just fly the Rebel on wheels. In my opinion, it handles
better and is easier to fly on floats than wheels, and you have the best

of

everything. You definitely lose some climb performance and cruise speed,

but

with the right engine, it is still more than adequate.

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Walter Klatt
Sent: September 1, 2001 9:04 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: 1800 Amphibs

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

Thanks again, Wayne, for the advice on the washers. I stopped in at Home
Depot and got some more washers to fill the gap on the front wheel retract
shaft, and it worked. I got in a few more touch and go's this evening and

no

more shimmy. It's flying really great and a joy to land.

With my prebuilts, I had ordered them a year and half ago, and just got

them

a few months ago, so they may not have all the latest mods, but how would

I

know? With the rear shock washers, they finally gave me the big blue ones
which did the trick. MAM was still hoping to get the the little yellow

ones

to work, and as I understand it, a lot of people are still using them. And
the front retract obviously doesn't work right out of the box or by the
manual.

All I can say, I'm sure glad we have this builders' list, and thanks again
to you, and Bob P. and everyone else for their great help.

Tomorrow if the weather holds, we'll head for the water.

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: September 1, 2001 4:31 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: 1800 Amphibs

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

Walter, really starting to wonder about your "pre-builts"! First it was

old

style rubbers/washers and now the nose wheel assemblies. In order to put
Howard's together I had to be creative with clamping the nose wheel pivot
shaft and wiggle washers in place, to allow even getting the retention

bolt

started into the shaft. ABSOLUTELY NO up and down play what so ever, and

hit

and miss on the right number of washers to prevent shimmy. Unless MAM has
changed something in the design of the nose wheel assembly yours isn't
correct. Correct the nose shimmy now as all it takes is about 2 landings

on

pavement with a quick flapping "shopping cart" type shimmy to chew the

tire

tread right off. It is normal to sometimes have a nose wheel swing back

and

forth a couple times if the runway isn't absolutely flat, since one nose
wheel won't be weighted properly if it hits a low spot in the pavement,

but

the quick destructive shimmy needs to be corrected immediately

Isn't it fun flying that huge "Radio Flyer" wagon though!!!!!!!!!!!?????.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@home.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 7:12 PM
Subject: RE: 1800 Amphibs

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

The weather broke and I was able to do my test flight after all today.
Everything went well, and you guys are right, this thing is easier to

fly

on
floats than wheels. Once you set your nose to the right landing attitude
with a little power, it just squeaks on real nice. It is a lot heavier,
though, and it is no longer the climb rocket I had on wheels, but was
still
able to see up to 900 feet per minute with two aboard, and 25 g fuel.

Wayne, you were right about the breaking in of the brakes. I had no
problem
today with steering.

However, I do have a nose wheel shimmy after the nose comes down. I
currently have 7 spring washers on the bottom and 4 on top. There is

still

about a half inch of play, though, on the shaft up and down, but as I
understand, that's the way it is supposed to be. Now, how do I stop this
shimmy? Is it more washers on the top or bottom? Can someone confirm

that

this half inch of play up and down is OK?

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: September 1, 2001 7:14 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: 1800 Amphibs

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

Walter before you do that first flight, that might need some hard

braking

etc, Bob has hit on an item lightly that is absolutely necessary with a
new
set of disks and pads. Just like a new engine needs to be run flat out

for

a
minimum of 2 hours (without a landing during this time unless it's an
absolute emergency) if you want a good ring seat, new brake assemblies
need
to be taxied at around 1400 to 1500 RPM (on pavement) lightly riding the
brakes to maintain a slow crawl. Do this the length of the strip and let
cool. Then do it again. You should see a noticeable increase on braking
power after this process, if not do it again. With the amphib I sold

(with

well broken in brakes) it taxied and steered okay on the grass. When I
went
to pavement one day, with a 15 knot wind straight down the runway, I

could

not taxi it from the apron to the threshold without getting out and
pointing
it in the right direction a couple times. Not enough brake to counter

the

X-wind. I moved the pedal cylinders (bottom) mounting to the floor and

it

made a HUGE difference. Wouldn't want them on the floor as a taildragger
though, as in my opinion would be too much brake if you have the newer

MAM

wheels. As a taildragger, I have found that the normal brake cylinder
location is strong enough to stand the Rebel on it's nose very easily,

so

I
sure wouldn't want more brakes when on wheels.

P.S. Remember, don't even try to anticipate the flare. Just keep the
forward
momentum going and fly it on (full flaps if no cross wind) at about 65

MPH

until you get used to the height!!! (it worked for me)

Have fun,
Wayne G. O'Shea

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@home.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 9:55 AM
Subject: RE: 1800 Amphibs

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

Thanks, Bob. I was planning to do the first test flight today, but

just

my
luck, it's pouring rain this morning, and the forecast is not good for
the
whole long weekend.

I will try removing a couple of spring washers from the bottom and see
how
that works.

With the brakes, I still have the original Murphy set-up, but maybe

it's

time to try the new way with the brake cylinders attached to the

floor.

At
least for floats, this might help, as I had a tendency to push the
rudder
and the brake to turn, when only the brake was necessary, and found
myself
riding the opposite one, which was definitely not desirable.

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf

Of

Bob Patterson
Sent: August 31, 2001 7:50 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: 1800 Amphibs

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

Hi Walter !

I don't recall using ANY wavey ones on the bottom, and 3 or
4 on top seemed to work ok.....

Steering with the brakes gates everybody ! ;-) One thing
to do is just taxi around dragging the brakes for a while, then use
them hard for several turns in each direction. There is a bit of glaze
on them when new, and you have to burn that off to get them to work
well. Steering then gets MUCH easier - you'll find you can turn in a
smaller radius than with the tailwheel !!! :-)

Amphibs are SO easy to land & taxi - the world's best kept
secret !!

....bobp

---------------------------------orig.----------------------------------
At 07:19 AM 8/31/01 -0700, you wrote:

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

and

did
challenges
spring
bottom.
I

many

can

and

am

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
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R. A. Hamson · Post by **R. A. Hamson** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:16 pm

Have read with interest the various things re the amphibs. I am
presently putting the bottom on the first float and am concerned about
the accessibility to the hydraulic lines at the cylinder and the
suitability of the yellow shock pucks on the mains. Re the hydraulic
lines I had planned to do the connection to the cylinder prior to
putting the bottoms on, running the lines to the next bay forward where
I would install a union for the final hook-up and from where I could do
the bleeding, etc. ? I installed the yellow pucks as specified in the
manual with the washers in between and found that I had to compress the
lot a small amount to get the assembly together. All in all it looked
pretty good but Walter's comments have me wondering?
A couple of other questions: what is the height to the top of the tail
(hanger concerns) and Walter what pitch do you have your Warp Drive
adjusted to, what horsepower are you running and have you ahd the
proverbial cracking problems/ (I am on my 3rd set of blades with an
O-320 150 hp)
Thanks for any advise!
Ron Hamson

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Drew and Jan · Post by **Drew and Jan** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:16 pm

Hi Ron Colleen Dyke told me the tail height is 10'when I asked the same
question. Sorry to hear your rotten luck with Warp Drive have you had the
prop balanced? I had mine done and one bolt with 2 washers on the flywheel
made it noticably smoother.
Drew

At 02:06 PM 9/4/01 -0400, you wrote:

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
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http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Have read with interest the various things re the amphibs. I am
presently putting the bottom on the first float and am concerned about
the accessibility to the hydraulic lines at the cylinder and the
suitability of the yellow shock pucks on the mains. Re the hydraulic
lines I had planned to do the connection to the cylinder prior to
putting the bottoms on, running the lines to the next bay forward where
I would install a union for the final hook-up and from where I could do
the bleeding, etc. ? I installed the yellow pucks as specified in the
manual with the washers in between and found that I had to compress the
lot a small amount to get the assembly together. All in all it looked
pretty good but Walter's comments have me wondering?
A couple of other questions: what is the height to the top of the tail
(hanger concerns) and Walter what pitch do you have your Warp Drive
adjusted to, what horsepower are you running and have you ahd the
proverbial cracking problems/ (I am on my 3rd set of blades with an
O-320 150 hp)
Thanks for any advise!
Ron Hamson

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Walter Klatt · Post by **Walter Klatt** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:16 pm

Ron, I have a Word document from MAM that shows all the dimensions and
clearances for the floats on a Rebel. I will send it to you by private
email, to keep attachments out of the list and the archives. It shows the
tail as being 10 feet high. I haven't actually measured mine yet, but that
sounds about right. My hangar clearance is 11 feet at the door and I have
lots of room left. If someone else wants a copy, let me know.

I use a Warp Drive 72 inch 3 blade wide tip with metal leading edges on my
150 HP O320 Lycoming Rebel. The pitch is 11.5 degrees and I get about 2450
RPM on take off. I haven't had any problems with mine, but then I still have
low hours. However, I do have a cheap simple prop balancer that I use that
can balance your prop, spinner and all hardware. I have found that the Warp
Drive blades were not all evenly balanced as delivered, and neither was my
UHS fibreglass spinner. Also, I took great care in torquing and retorquing
my blades and hub and ensured that my tracking was true. The blades in
particular need to be at a very high torque for the bolt size. Not sure how
much all that helped, but so far I have not had any problems. I know a
person locally that has been using the same Warp drive prop for several
hundred hours, and has had the collar cracks that everyone is worried about
for most of that time, but has chosen to continue using it, with no other
problems or consequences. So far I have not heard of this problem leading to
catastrophic prop failure in flight. However, in my case, I check it closely
all the time, and if I find a crack, will get it replaced.

I was definitely not satisfied with the yellow rubber washers on my gear,
even after adding the concave metal washers, but have been told some people
are using them. There are big blue ones available from MAM, which are used
in their nose gear suspension, which I am now using in my installation. The
suspension is definitely very firm now, and I think MAM is concerned it
might be too firm. You should really talk to them about that.

Before finalizing your cylinder placement, on the front retracts in
particular, be sure that the all the hydraulic tube fittings are accessible.
My floats were pre-built and the rear fittings of the front retract
cylinders were placed so that I could not get to them from the access holes
for bleeding or tightening. Luckily, I didn't have any leaks. For bleeding,
I had to remove the front wheels, so I could lower the nose, to get all the
the air to run uphill to the centre of the floats where I was able to work
it out by recycling the gear up and down. The T joints in mine were in the
compartment just to the rear of the front spar, which turned out to be fine.

Hope that helps.

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Drew and Jan
Sent: September 4, 2001 5:49 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: 1800 Amphibs

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Hi Ron Colleen Dyke told me the tail height is 10'when I asked the same
question. Sorry to hear your rotten luck with Warp Drive have you had the
prop balanced? I had mine done and one bolt with 2 washers on the flywheel
made it noticably smoother.
Drew

At 02:06 PM 9/4/01 -0400, you wrote:

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Have read with interest the various things re the amphibs. I am
presently putting the bottom on the first float and am concerned about
the accessibility to the hydraulic lines at the cylinder and the
suitability of the yellow shock pucks on the mains. Re the hydraulic
lines I had planned to do the connection to the cylinder prior to
putting the bottoms on, running the lines to the next bay forward where
I would install a union for the final hook-up and from where I could do
the bleeding, etc. ? I installed the yellow pucks as specified in the
manual with the washers in between and found that I had to compress the
lot a small amount to get the assembly together. All in all it looked
pretty good but Walter's comments have me wondering?
A couple of other questions: what is the height to the top of the tail
(hanger concerns) and Walter what pitch do you have your Warp Drive
adjusted to, what horsepower are you running and have you ahd the
proverbial cracking problems/ (I am on my 3rd set of blades with an
O-320 150 hp)
Thanks for any advise!
Ron Hamson

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Rebflyer · Post by **Rebflyer** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:16 pm

Hi Ron,
In answer to your questions, I'll relate my solutions.
On the yellow "pucks" if you just lean on them slightly to install the
bolt, that's not enough. I put my 200 lbs on them to install mine and that
wasn't enough. Had to put them in a press to get enough pucks to give the
proper support under the aircraft. Seems to be good now with 11 pucks per
side.
As for the cylinder bleeding, I wish I had put bleed screws in the end of
the cylinder where I could have put a small tube on them to keep the excess
fluid outside of the float. That wouldn't be to tough to do. It was the pain
in the rear you are imagining, but now that it's done, all is well.
On the subject of prop settings, I am using the "toothpicks in the olive"
prop (warp drive ) also. I have about 4hrs on it. So far so good as far as
the cracking, and I'm running the harmonic dampner.
I too am wondering about numbers from Walter. I'm turning 2500 rpm on the
initial and then 2625 on the climb. That's working good, but I'm not getting
the cruise. Just 95mph, but I'm also pulling back on the throttle a long way
to keep it at 2500rpm in cruise. The engine dosen't seem to even be working
very hard, like I'm back in the 60% power range. I guess I'm looking to
compare numbers.
Thanks all and do keep at it, it's worth it. Curt N97MR

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Walter Klatt · Post by **Walter Klatt** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:16 pm

In my case, I actually was able to squeeze in 12 yellow pucks and cupped washers per side. Because my floats and gear were already installed on the plane at this time, I simply used the full weight of the plane and an extra person standing on the float to get that final press, so I could get the guide bolt in. Initially, my gear only had 10 rubber washers.

Curt, which Warp Drive are you using, and what is your pitch setting?

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Rebflyer@aol.com
Sent: September 4, 2001 7:18 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: 1800 Amphibs

Hi Ron,
In answer to your questions, I'll relate my solutions.
On the yellow "pucks" if you just lean on them slightly to install the
bolt, that's not enough. I put my 200 lbs on them to install mine and that
wasn't enough. Had to put them in a press to get enough pucks to give the
proper support under the aircraft. Seems to be good now with 11 pucks per
side.
As for the cylinder bleeding, I wish I had put bleed screws in the end of
the cylinder where I could have put a small tube on them to keep the excess
fluid outside of the float. That wouldn't be to tough to do. It was the pain
in the rear you are imagining, but now that it's done, all is well.
On the subject of prop settings, I am using the "toothpicks in the olive"
prop (warp drive ) also. I have about 4hrs on it. So far so good as far as
the cracking, and I'm running the harmonic dampner.
I too am wondering about numbers from Walter. I'm turning 2500 rpm on the
initial and then 2625 on the climb. That's working good, but I'm not getting
the cruise. Just 95mph, but I'm also pulling back on the throttle a long way
to keep it at 2500rpm in cruise. The engine dosen't seem to even be working
very hard, like I'm back in the 60% power range. I guess I'm looking to
compare numbers.
Thanks all and do keep at it, it's worth it. Curt N97MR