Float mounting on the Rebel

[Walter Klatt]

I am getting ready to raise my Rebel in my hangar to attach my floats. My
plan is to add some extra 2 X 12 fir or spruce rafters across a span of 21
feet. Just wondering if there are any engineer types out there that could
tell me how many of these 2 X 12's I need to nail together to be strong
enough to support the Rebel or about 1000 pounds from the middle of this 21
foot span?




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[brian amendala]

I hung my Rebel by the engine mount to the beam with a rope. Then you just
support the tail...

From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@home.com>
Reply-To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Float mounting on the Rebel
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 19:44:05 -0700

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I am getting ready to raise my Rebel in my hangar to attach my floats. My
plan is to add some extra 2 X 12 fir or spruce rafters across a span of 21
feet. Just wondering if there are any engineer types out there that could
tell me how many of these 2 X 12's I need to nail together to be strong
enough to support the Rebel or about 1000 pounds from the middle of this 21
foot span?

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[SWSLOANLK]

Walter

Looking at my old Forest Products Laboratory book on safe loads of wood
beams, a uniformly distributed safe load for a one inch wide by 11 and 1/2
deep select Douglas Fir beam 21 feet long is 700 lbs. This assumes the
section is laterally supported to keep the beam from rolling. ( X braced )
You will however put the load at a point midspan so the safe load is 1/2 of
the uniform load or 350 lbs.

Hope this helps !

Steve Sloan 536R

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[SWSLOANLK]

Brian Amendala

Is your Rebel based at Olympia Airport In Washington State..

Steven Sloan 536R

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[Walter Klatt]

Thanks, Brian. That is very interesting. I asked Murphy if I could lift it
by the engine mounts, and they said no, it was not designed for that. If I
can, then I would just use a regular crane boom type engine hoist, which
would work best for me. Did you do it with the wings on, and have any fuel
in the tanks?

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
brian amendala
Sent: July 23, 2001 1:52 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Float mounting on the Rebel


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I hung my Rebel by the engine mount to the beam with a rope. Then you just
support the tail...

From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@home.com>
Reply-To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Float mounting on the Rebel
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 19:44:05 -0700

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I am getting ready to raise my Rebel in my hangar to attach my floats. My
plan is to add some extra 2 X 12 fir or spruce rafters across a span of 21
feet. Just wondering if there are any engineer types out there that could
tell me how many of these 2 X 12's I need to nail together to be strong
enough to support the Rebel or about 1000 pounds from the middle of this 21
foot span?

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[Walter Klatt]

Thanks Steve, looks like I will need about 3 or 4 of them if I go that route.

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of SWSLOANLK@aol.com
Sent: July 24, 2001 4:24 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Float mounting on the Rebel


Walter

Looking at my old Forest Products Laboratory book on safe loads of wood
beams, a uniformly distributed safe load for a one inch wide by 11 and 1/2
deep select Douglas Fir beam 21 feet long is 700 lbs. This assumes the
section is laterally supported to keep the beam from rolling. ( X braced )
You will however put the load at a point midspan so the safe load is 1/2 of
the uniform load or 350 lbs.

Hope this helps !

Steve Sloan 536R

[Walter Klatt]

Not sure if this made it to the list. My apologies if you get it twice.

-----Original Message-----
From: Walter Klatt [mailto:Walter.Klatt@home.com]
Sent: July 24, 2001 7:25 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Float mounting on the Rebel


Thanks, Brian. That is very interesting. I asked Murphy if I could lift it
by the engine mounts, and they said no, it was not designed for that. If I
can, then I would just use a regular crane boom type engine hoist, which
would work best for me. Did you do it with the wings on, and have any fuel
in the tanks?

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
brian amendala
Sent: July 23, 2001 1:52 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Float mounting on the Rebel


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I hung my Rebel by the engine mount to the beam with a rope. Then you just
support the tail...

From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@home.com>
Reply-To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Float mounting on the Rebel
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 19:44:05 -0700

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I am getting ready to raise my Rebel in my hangar to attach my floats. My
plan is to add some extra 2 X 12 fir or spruce rafters across a span of 21
feet. Just wondering if there are any engineer types out there that could
tell me how many of these 2 X 12's I need to nail together to be strong
enough to support the Rebel or about 1000 pounds from the middle of this 21
foot span?

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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Walter, I remove the wing root fairings at the windshield (small one that
wraps from top to bottom fairings). I then use a sling made from aircraft
cable, with an AN6 bolt through the thimbles under the top carrythrough tube
(between the cabin root and the wing attach bolt). Using the AN6 bolt
distributes the load evenly across the carrythrough and guarantees the sling
can't slip off the carrythrough out onto the wing fitting, as when tightened
up the thimbles can't slip by the wing attach bolt. I use two block and
tackles (on roller trolleys on an I beam) so I can lift each side
independently to make squaring the fuselage up to the floats easier. You
could use a "spreader bar" (the width of the cabin plus an inch or so, so
loads are straight up on the carrythrough) and one chain fall, but make sure
you have ropes on each wing so it doesn't tip over on it's side.

Not that it is necessarily good, but MY opinion is NOT to lift by the engine
mount unless you really have to, and if you do make sure you are right in
close to the firewall so there is no leverage on the mounts.

Have fun,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@home.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 10:24 PM
Subject: RE: Float mounting on the Rebel


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Thanks, Brian. That is very interesting. I asked Murphy if I could lift it
by the engine mounts, and they said no, it was not designed for that. If I
can, then I would just use a regular crane boom type engine hoist, which
would work best for me. Did you do it with the wings on, and have any fuel
in the tanks?

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
brian amendala
Sent: July 23, 2001 1:52 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Float mounting on the Rebel

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I hung my Rebel by the engine mount to the beam with a rope. Then you just
support the tail...

From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@home.com>
Reply-To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Float mounting on the Rebel
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 19:44:05 -0700

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I am getting ready to raise my Rebel in my hangar to attach my floats. My
plan is to add some extra 2 X 12 fir or spruce rafters across a span of

21

feet. Just wondering if there are any engineer types out there that could
tell me how many of these 2 X 12's I need to nail together to be strong
enough to support the Rebel or about 1000 pounds from the middle of this

21

foot span?

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[Walter Klatt]

Thanks again, Wayne. Great to hear from 1st hand experience. Hanging from
the wing attach points is what MAM recommends too. My problem, though, is
building the rafter support beams strong enough in my hangar to support the
weight. Putting those up (about 16 feet up from the ground) is a lot of
work, too. So the other thing I am considering now is just jacking it up
from the bottom and supporting it on wood stands.

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: July 24, 2001 8:14 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Float mounting on the Rebel


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Walter, I remove the wing root fairings at the windshield (small one that
wraps from top to bottom fairings). I then use a sling made from aircraft
cable, with an AN6 bolt through the thimbles under the top carrythrough tube
(between the cabin root and the wing attach bolt). Using the AN6 bolt
distributes the load evenly across the carrythrough and guarantees the sling
can't slip off the carrythrough out onto the wing fitting, as when tightened
up the thimbles can't slip by the wing attach bolt. I use two block and
tackles (on roller trolleys on an I beam) so I can lift each side
independently to make squaring the fuselage up to the floats easier. You
could use a "spreader bar" (the width of the cabin plus an inch or so, so
loads are straight up on the carrythrough) and one chain fall, but make sure
you have ropes on each wing so it doesn't tip over on it's side.

Not that it is necessarily good, but MY opinion is NOT to lift by the engine
mount unless you really have to, and if you do make sure you are right in
close to the firewall so there is no leverage on the mounts.

Have fun,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@home.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 10:24 PM
Subject: RE: Float mounting on the Rebel


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Thanks, Brian. That is very interesting. I asked Murphy if I could lift it
by the engine mounts, and they said no, it was not designed for that. If I
can, then I would just use a regular crane boom type engine hoist, which
would work best for me. Did you do it with the wings on, and have any fuel
in the tanks?

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
brian amendala
Sent: July 23, 2001 1:52 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Float mounting on the Rebel

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I hung my Rebel by the engine mount to the beam with a rope. Then you just
support the tail...

From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@home.com>
Reply-To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Float mounting on the Rebel
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 19:44:05 -0700

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I am getting ready to raise my Rebel in my hangar to attach my floats. My
plan is to add some extra 2 X 12 fir or spruce rafters across a span of

21

feet. Just wondering if there are any engineer types out there that could
tell me how many of these 2 X 12's I need to nail together to be strong
enough to support the Rebel or about 1000 pounds from the middle of this

21

foot span?

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[Charles Skorupa]

Here is how MAM suspended their Elite when instgalling the floats:
http://communities.msn.com/NWRebelExper ... PhotoID=88

(Highlight everything from "http....to... ID=88" and cut & paste to your
browser. For some strange reason the whole url never seems to come out
right when I send it to this forum)

The light was not right for this photo, but they suspended it as Wayne
described. I think you can get the idea. There are other photos of the
float installation on this page you may find useful. I wish I had spent
more time there and did a photo essay on the entire installation. Hope this
helps some.

Chuck Skorupa
Elite S/N 500

From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
Reply-To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Float mounting on the Rebel
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 23:13:39 -0400

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Walter, I remove the wing root fairings at the windshield (small one that
wraps from top to bottom fairings). I then use a sling made from aircraft
cable, with an AN6 bolt through the thimbles under the top carrythrough
tube
(between the cabin root and the wing attach bolt). Using the AN6 bolt
distributes the load evenly across the carrythrough and guarantees the
sling
can't slip off the carrythrough out onto the wing fitting, as when
tightened
up the thimbles can't slip by the wing attach bolt. I use two block and
tackles (on roller trolleys on an I beam) so I can lift each side
independently to make squaring the fuselage up to the floats easier. You
could use a "spreader bar" (the width of the cabin plus an inch or so, so
loads are straight up on the carrythrough) and one chain fall, but make
sure
you have ropes on each wing so it doesn't tip over on it's side.

Not that it is necessarily good, but MY opinion is NOT to lift by the
engine
mount unless you really have to, and if you do make sure you are right in
close to the firewall so there is no leverage on the mounts.

Have fun,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@home.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 10:24 PM
Subject: RE: Float mounting on the Rebel


*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

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Thanks, Brian. That is very interesting. I asked Murphy if I could lift

it

by the engine mounts, and they said no, it was not designed for that. If

I

can, then I would just use a regular crane boom type engine hoist, which
would work best for me. Did you do it with the wings on, and have any

fuel

in the tanks?

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
brian amendala
Sent: July 23, 2001 1:52 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Float mounting on the Rebel

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I hung my Rebel by the engine mount to the beam with a rope. Then you

just

support the tail...

From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@home.com>
Reply-To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Float mounting on the Rebel
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 19:44:05 -0700

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

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http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
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*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

I am getting ready to raise my Rebel in my hangar to attach my floats.

My

plan is to add some extra 2 X 12 fir or spruce rafters across a span of

21

feet. Just wondering if there are any engineer types out there that

could

tell me how many of these 2 X 12's I need to nail together to be strong
enough to support the Rebel or about 1000 pounds from the middle of

this
21

foot span?

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[Walter Klatt]

Thanks, Chuck, I hadn't seen these photos. I had tried to get photos of my
own these past few months, but couldn't find another float installation on a
Rebel in my area.

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Charles Skorupa
Sent: July 25, 2001 1:07 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Float mounting on the Rebel


*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
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Here is how MAM suspended their Elite when instgalling the floats:
http://communities.msn.com/NWRebelExper ... floatintal
lation.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=88

(Highlight everything from "http....to... ID=88" and cut & paste to your
browser. For some strange reason the whole url never seems to come out
right when I send it to this forum)

The light was not right for this photo, but they suspended it as Wayne
described. I think you can get the idea. There are other photos of the
float installation on this page you may find useful. I wish I had spent
more time there and did a photo essay on the entire installation. Hope this
helps some.

Chuck Skorupa
Elite S/N 500

From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
Reply-To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Float mounting on the Rebel
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 23:13:39 -0400

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
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http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Walter, I remove the wing root fairings at the windshield (small one that
wraps from top to bottom fairings). I then use a sling made from aircraft
cable, with an AN6 bolt through the thimbles under the top carrythrough
tube
(between the cabin root and the wing attach bolt). Using the AN6 bolt
distributes the load evenly across the carrythrough and guarantees the
sling
can't slip off the carrythrough out onto the wing fitting, as when
tightened
up the thimbles can't slip by the wing attach bolt. I use two block and
tackles (on roller trolleys on an I beam) so I can lift each side
independently to make squaring the fuselage up to the floats easier. You
could use a "spreader bar" (the width of the cabin plus an inch or so, so
loads are straight up on the carrythrough) and one chain fall, but make
sure
you have ropes on each wing so it doesn't tip over on it's side.

Not that it is necessarily good, but MY opinion is NOT to lift by the
engine
mount unless you really have to, and if you do make sure you are right in
close to the firewall so there is no leverage on the mounts.

Have fun,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@home.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 10:24 PM
Subject: RE: Float mounting on the Rebel


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Thanks, Brian. That is very interesting. I asked Murphy if I could lift

it

by the engine mounts, and they said no, it was not designed for that. If

I

can, then I would just use a regular crane boom type engine hoist, which
would work best for me. Did you do it with the wings on, and have any

fuel

in the tanks?

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
brian amendala
Sent: July 23, 2001 1:52 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Float mounting on the Rebel

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I hung my Rebel by the engine mount to the beam with a rope. Then you

just

support the tail...

From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@home.com>
Reply-To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Float mounting on the Rebel
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 19:44:05 -0700

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I am getting ready to raise my Rebel in my hangar to attach my floats.

My

plan is to add some extra 2 X 12 fir or spruce rafters across a span of

21

feet. Just wondering if there are any engineer types out there that

could

tell me how many of these 2 X 12's I need to nail together to be strong
enough to support the Rebel or about 1000 pounds from the middle of

this
21

foot span?

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[brian amendala]

I lifted the aircraft by the ENGINE HOIST "U" BRACKET that is bolted to all
Lycoming engines---NOT THE ENGINE MOUNTS....The aircraft was COMPLETE with
NO FUEL...Brian

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Thanks, Brian. That is very interesting. I asked Murphy if I could lift it
by the engine mounts, and they said no, it was not designed for that. If I
can, then I would just use a regular crane boom type engine hoist, which
would work best for me. Did you do it with the wings on, and have any fuel
in the tanks?

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
brian amendala
Sent: July 23, 2001 1:52 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Float mounting on the Rebel


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I hung my Rebel by the engine mount to the beam with a rope. Then you just
support the tail...

From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@home.com>
Reply-To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Float mounting on the Rebel
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 19:44:05 -0700

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
I am getting ready to raise my Rebel in my hangar to attach my floats. My
plan is to add some extra 2 X 12 fir or spruce rafters across a span of

21

feet. Just wondering if there are any engineer types out there that could
tell me how many of these 2 X 12's I need to nail together to be strong
enough to support the Rebel or about 1000 pounds from the middle of this

21

foot span?

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