The Murphy Builders Site

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:02 pm**

Hallo there,
could anyone please help? I have been trying to check how many degrees
rudder travel I should have. Murphy tell me I should get 25 degrees each
side, total of 50 degrees travel. alistar has advised me, he gets about
5 1/2 inches each side. I am confused???? Can anyone else throw any
measurements in???Please.As I can't contact Murphy again for a couple of
days.
Many thanks
Graeme Weck, 647R

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:02 pm**

Graeme, don't get confused because MAM gives you degrees and Alister is
giving you inches! The rudder can't go any further than the fin post anyhow.
We use to use the tail spring holders (TS-1) as the rudder horn stop. MAM
now has you use 1/4" bolts to hold the TS-1, 2, 3 etc together and you
install a small piece of aluminum tube on top of this assembly (with the
bolt through it) to act as a stop, so the horn is not hitting the sharp
corner of the fin post (like mine still does) causing a stress point for
breakage. This gives you ALL the rudder you need, as it's even enough for a
full blown side slip on floats! So don't worry about a measurement to go by
while setting her up, just stop to stop! Then record this amount of travel
for you paperwork, if you're required like us up here for the final
documents that go to Transport Canada.

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Graeme & Britta Weck" <g.b.weck@xtra.co.nz>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 4:24 AM
Subject: rudder travel

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Hallo there,
could anyone please help? I have been trying to check how many degrees
rudder travel I should have. Murphy tell me I should get 25 degrees each
side, total of 50 degrees travel. alistar has advised me, he gets about
5 1/2 inches each side. I am confused???? Can anyone else throw any
measurements in???Please.As I can't contact Murphy again for a couple of
days.
Many thanks
Graeme Weck, 647R

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:02 pm**

Hi

Just this morning I e-mailed MAM to ask if it was OK to drill the older
TS-1 for 1/4" rudder stop bolts. Does anyone happen to know if the newer
TS-1-1 is the same width as the older TS-1 part which is 3/4"?

thanks
Ken

"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:

Graeme, don't get confused because MAM gives you degrees and Alister is
giving you inches! The rudder can't go any further than the fin post anyhow.
We use to use the tail spring holders (TS-1) as the rudder horn stop. MAM
now has you use 1/4" bolts to hold the TS-1, 2, 3 etc together and you
install a small piece of aluminum tube on top of this assembly (with the
bolt through it) to act as a stop, so the horn is not hitting the sharp
corner of the fin post (like mine still does) causing a stress point for
breakage. This gives you ALL the rudder you need, as it's even enough for a
full blown side slip on floats! So don't worry about a measurement to go by
while setting her up, just stop to stop! Then record this amount of travel
for you paperwork, if you're required like us up here for the final
documents that go to Transport Canada.

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Graeme & Britta Weck" <g.b.weck@xtra.co.nz>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 4:24 AM
Subject: rudder travel
Hallo there,
could anyone please help? I have been trying to check how many degrees
rudder travel I should have. Murphy tell me I should get 25 degrees each
side, total of 50 degrees travel. alistar has advised me, he gets about
5 1/2 inches each side. I am confused???? Can anyone else throw any
measurements in???Please.As I can't contact Murphy again for a couple of
days.
Many thanks
Graeme Weck, 647R

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:02 pm**

Pretty sure they are the same width Ken as 1/16th more in hole diameter
isn't going to facilitate the need for a wider part. I have drilled quite a
few of them to take the larger bolts, so the owners would have the rudder
stop tubes. I think the newer TS1-1's only change was the hole spacing for
the bolts, to the fin spar, as the bottom bolt was previously a little too
close to the lower rudder hinge fitting (but I could be wrong there!).

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: rudder travel

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Hi

Just this morning I e-mailed MAM to ask if it was OK to drill the older
TS-1 for 1/4" rudder stop bolts. Does anyone happen to know if the newer
TS-1-1 is the same width as the older TS-1 part which is 3/4"?

thanks
Ken

"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:
Graeme, don't get confused because MAM gives you degrees and Alister is
giving you inches! The rudder can't go any further than the fin post

anyhow.

We use to use the tail spring holders (TS-1) as the rudder horn stop.

MAM

now has you use 1/4" bolts to hold the TS-1, 2, 3 etc together and you
install a small piece of aluminum tube on top of this assembly (with the
bolt through it) to act as a stop, so the horn is not hitting the sharp
corner of the fin post (like mine still does) causing a stress point for
breakage. This gives you ALL the rudder you need, as it's even enough

for a

full blown side slip on floats! So don't worry about a measurement to go

by

while setting her up, just stop to stop! Then record this amount of

travel

for you paperwork, if you're required like us up here for the final
documents that go to Transport Canada.

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Graeme & Britta Weck" <g.b.weck@xtra.co.nz>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 4:24 AM
Subject: rudder travel
Hallo there,
could anyone please help? I have been trying to check how many degrees
rudder travel I should have. Murphy tell me I should get 25 degrees

each

side, total of 50 degrees travel. alistar has advised me, he gets

about

5 1/2 inches each side. I am confused???? Can anyone else throw any
measurements in???Please.As I can't contact Murphy again for a couple

of

days.
Many thanks
Graeme Weck, 647R

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:02 pm**

Hello,
I never liked the way the rudder horn slammed into either bolts or onto
the head of a bolt as in a Cessna. I planned on adding some adjustable
stops to the lower part of the pedals and having the stop hit a plate on
the floor. Similar to the way the elevator and aileron stops work.
Rick D.

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

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Graeme, don't get confused because MAM gives you degrees and Alister is
giving you inches! The rudder can't go any further than the fin post anyhow.
We use to use the tail spring holders (TS-1) as the rudder horn stop. MAM
now has you use 1/4" bolts to hold the TS-1, 2, 3 etc together and you
install a small piece of aluminum tube on top of this assembly (with the
bolt through it) to act as a stop, so the horn is not hitting the sharp
corner of the fin post (like mine still does) causing a stress point for
breakage. This gives you ALL the rudder you need, as it's even enough for a
full blown side slip on floats! So don't worry about a measurement to go by
while setting her up, just stop to stop! Then record this amount of travel
for you paperwork, if you're required like us up here for the final
documents that go to Transport Canada.

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Graeme & Britta Weck" <g.b.weck@xtra.co.nz>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 4:24 AM
Subject: rudder travel

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Hallo there,
could anyone please help? I have been trying to check how many degrees
rudder travel I should have. Murphy tell me I should get 25 degrees each
side, total of 50 degrees travel. alistar has advised me, he gets about
5 1/2 inches each side. I am confused???? Can anyone else throw any
measurements in???Please.As I can't contact Murphy again for a couple of
days.
Many thanks
Graeme Weck, 647R

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:02 pm**

I have a question, As i dont have my rudder on yet and was thinking about mounting the rudder and brake peddles to the floor. Does anyone know how far to mount them from the firewall to get the proper brake movement and rudder thro without hitting the firewall?

Thanks,
Bruce

Graeme, don't get confused because MAM gives you degrees and Alister is
giving you inches! The rudder can't go any further than the fin post anyhow.
We use to use the tail spring holders (TS-1) as the rudder horn stop. MAM
now has you use 1/4" bolts to hold the TS-1, 2, 3 etc together and you
install a small piece of aluminum tube on top of this assembly (with the
bolt through it) to act as a stop, so the horn is not hitting the sharp
corner of the fin post (like mine still does) causing a stress point for
breakage. This gives you ALL the rudder you need, as it's even enough for a
full blown side slip on floats! So don't worry about a measurement to go by
while setting her up, just stop to stop! Then record this amount of travel
for you paperwork, if you're required like us up here for the final
documents that go to Transport Canada.

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:02 pm**

Thanks Wayne

Makes sense but I was suspicious when I noticed both the bolt change and the
TS-1-1 part renumbering.

I had to use those miniature all metal locking nuts on the lower bolts through
the TS-1 and the tailpost and even then there is no spare clearance.

Ken

"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:

Pretty sure they are the same width Ken as 1/16th more in hole diameter
isn't going to facilitate the need for a wider part. I have drilled quite a
few of them to take the larger bolts, so the owners would have the rudder
stop tubes. I think the newer TS1-1's only change was the hole spacing for
the bolts, to the fin spar, as the bottom bolt was previously a little too
close to the lower rudder hinge fitting (but I could be wrong there!).

Wayne

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:02 pm**

Hi Bruce

The new CD manual says to place the centerline of the right rudder torque tube
5.75" aft of the firewall which seems a bit tight to me. The left tube would go
behind that one.

Mine are farther aft but there was no measurement in my manual either. You will
tend to have better visibility if you keep them forward though, as that also
keeps your eyes forward. I also moved the lower master cylinder mounts from the
torque tube to a bracket on the floor which also reduces the clearance needed.
That has been discussed a few times here.

Ken

Flyin B Ranch wrote:

I have a question, As i dont have my rudder on yet and was thinking about mounting the rudder and brake peddles to the floor. Does anyone know how far to mount them from the firewall to get the proper brake movement and rudder thro without hitting the firew

all?

Thanks,
Bruce

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:02 pm**

Bruce,
here are my rudder pedal numbers. The front set (i.e. right rudder) is
7.00 inches from the bottom of the firewall to the centerline of the
tube. This leaves 1.00 clearance from the largest protrusion of the
brake pedal when the full rudder (hitting the stop bolts of the rudder
horn) and full brake is applied.
The back set (i.e. left rudder) is 8 1/4 back. My lower brake brackets
are also attached to the floor.
Keep at it, they tell me that it's worth it.
good luck.
Rick D.
Rebel 404R N754SM

Flyin B Ranch wrote:

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I have a question, As i dont have my rudder on yet and was thinking about mounting the rudder and brake peddles to the floor. Does anyone know how far to mount them from the firewall to get the proper brake movement and rudder thro without hitting the firew

all?

Thanks,
Bruce

Graeme, don't get confused because MAM gives you degrees and Alister is

giving you inches! The rudder can't go any further than the fin post anyhow.
We use to use the tail spring holders (TS-1) as the rudder horn stop. MAM
now has you use 1/4" bolts to hold the TS-1, 2, 3 etc together and you
install a small piece of aluminum tube on top of this assembly (with the
bolt through it) to act as a stop, so the horn is not hitting the sharp
corner of the fin post (like mine still does) causing a stress point for
breakage. This gives you ALL the rudder you need, as it's even enough for a
full blown side slip on floats! So don't worry about a measurement to go by
while setting her up, just stop to stop! Then record this amount of travel
for you paperwork, if you're required like us up here for the final
documents that go to Transport Canada.

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:02 pm**

Thanks Ken & Rick for your reply,

As my firewall is moved back for the Lyc. engine I want to keep the rudder peddles as close to the firewall as possable. It looks like mounting the master cylinder to the floor is the hot tip and the front set of peddles centerline somewhere between 5.75 and 7.00 inches from firewall.

Thanks,
Bruce

Bruce,

here are my rudder pedal numbers. The front set (i.e. right rudder) is
7.00 inches from the bottom of the firewall to the centerline of the
tube. This leaves 1.00 clearance from the largest protrusion of the
brake pedal when the full rudder (hitting the stop bolts of the rudder
horn) and full brake is applied.
The back set (i.e. left rudder) is 8 1/4 back. My lower brake brackets
are also attached to the floor.
Keep at it, they tell me that it's worth it.
good luck.
Rick D.
Rebel 404R N754SM

Hi Bruce

The new CD manual says to place the centerline of the right rudder torque tube
5.75" aft of the firewall which seems a bit tight to me. The left tube would go
behind that one.

Mine are farther aft but there was no measurement in my manual either. You will
tend to have better visibility if you keep them forward though, as that also
keeps your eyes forward. I also moved the lower master cylinder mounts from the
torque tube to a bracket on the floor which also reduces the clearance needed.
That has been discussed a few times here.

Ken

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:02 pm**

In a message dated 7/3/01 7:14:55 PM Central Daylight Time, flyinb@kfalls.net
writes:

As my firewall is moved back for the Lyc. engine I want to keep the rudder
peddles as close to the firewall as possable. It looks like mounting the
master cylinder to the floor is the hot tip and the front set of peddles
centerline somewhere between 5.75 and 7.00 inches from firewall.

BRUCE
I have my firewall cut back 3" also for a 2.2 Subaru installation. And my
left hand rudder pedals are set back 10 1/2" from the firewall. But I have
dual electric fuel pumps mounted on the firewall just in front of them and I
only have a 32" inseam so my legs are kind of short any way. Mount you're
seat rails and put you're seats in even without padding and do some hanger
flying to see what's comfortable to you're build. And mount them there. When
you're sitting in the unfinished bird airplane noises are optional. Realy
you're building a custom plane build it to fit.
Phil&Lisa Smith #460R N414D

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:02 pm**

many thanks for for the replies it looks as though I get about 12-15 deg
of movement a side as Alistar said.You guys in the northern side of the
hot line must be enjoying some great flying weather or something the way
the E-MAIL traffic has gone dead.We have spent the last three days
freezing our butts off shifting every thing up to the hanger for some
serious assemble looking good for air under the weels befor Xmas
Regards
Graeme 647R

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:03 pm**

I'm just catching up on email after holidays but here's what I did on
the SR.

The 'SR' hinge line is 20" from hinge center to the tail of the rudder
the
travel 25 degrees. The old instructions say 30 degrees but I confirmed
with MAM it's 25
degrees. That works out to 8.66" straight-line of rudder travel.
i.e. two 20" sides and one 8.66" side.
Had to get one of my daughters friends to figure out as it's been too
long since I've done trigonometry. I slept through most of it anyway.
I cross checked this with a protractor.

Now what I did was tape a piece of 1/4" music wire to the tail edge of
the rudder hanging straight down and just clearing the floor. I then
took my sons laser pen (and I was going to throw the darn thing away)
and shone it through from the firewall through the tooling hole in the
last bulkhead hitting the wire. I double checked with eyeball and it
looked pretty good. (not the light beam) I put a mark at center on the
floor and now had a
dead center reference and then moved the rudder until I had 8.66" of
straight-line travel from center and put another mark on the floor. I
pre drilled the stop to #40 and fixed it and the packer with double
sided floor tape and drilled into position. If you ran a plumb line from
the wire centered through the tooling hole and fire wall you'd get the
same result. Hope this makes since and eases your construction.

I'm now thinking of fabricating a stop out of hockey puck material.
Has anyone done something similar to reduce the hard bump at full
travel?

Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 20:24:22 +1200
From: g.b.weck@xtra.co.nz
To: murphy-rebel
Subject: rudder travel

Hallo there,
could anyone please help? I have been trying to check how many degrees
rudder travel I should have. Murphy tell me I should get 25 degrees each
side, total of 50 degrees travel. alistar has advised me, he gets about
5 1/2 inches each side. I am confused???? Can anyone else throw any
measurements in???Please.As I can't contact Murphy again for a couple of
days.
Many thanks

--
Warren T. Montgomery
<monty@emirates.net.ae>
Dubai, United Arab Emirates

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