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Builders, we just finished our murphy rebel on floats and are having
cooling problems. we are running a 160 horsepower O-320 and can only taxi
for about five minutes at around 1300 rpm and the engine temp will rise to
220 degrees C. we baffled with standard side and rear baffling, but also
ran baffling over the top front of the enging (just behind the fly wheel).
we also cut two reverse scoops in the bottom of the cowling for more air
escape, but haven't tested it yet. we are wondering how the rest of the
builders have baffled their 0-320's and if they ran the baffling over the
top of the engine like we did, or ran it down below the fly wheel and left
the top more open, like Cessna does. if anyone has had cooling problems and
has found fixes for them, whether it be with baffling or changes in the
cowling, we would appreciate it if you would let us know.

thanks,
Brian and Brian
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Builders, we just finished our murphy rebel on floats and are having
cooling problems. we are running a 160 horsepower O-320 and can only taxi
for about five minutes at around 1300 rpm and the engine temp will rise to
220 degrees C. we baffled with standard side and rear baffling, but also
ran baffling over the top front of the enging (just behind the fly wheel).
we also cut two reverse scoops in the bottom of the cowling for more air
escape, but haven't tested it yet. we are wondering how the rest of the
builders have baffled their 0-320's and if they ran the baffling over the
top of the engine like we did, or ran it down below the fly wheel and left
the top more open, like Cessna does. if anyone has had cooling problems

has found fixes for them, whether it be with baffling or changes in the
cowling, we would appreciate it if you would let us know.

thanks,
Brian and Brian
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Bob, I thought the same initially, but then I noticed that he said 220 C not
F. There's a lot that has been said before on this subject, and I also had
this problem with the speed cowling. I just had to make the bottom opening
much bigger, add lips, and also remove the inside top lips from my inlets at
the front. It's running cooler now, but still heats up on a hot day in climb
out. The other thing for me still to try is fairing the bottom firewall
flange where the hot air exits out the bottom.

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Bob Patterson
Sent: June 17, 2001 7:23 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: engine cooling


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Hi B & B !!

Gee, 220 degrees isn't much for CHT !! Or is that OIL temp ??

Do you by any chance have that cursed "Speed Cowl" ?? If so,
you will need a LARGER opening at the bottom, and possibly a lip
added at the back. Some have made a hinged bottom to the whole
channel behind the carb, as a 'cowl flap'.

Do you have an oil cooler - it is absolutely necessary !

Don't know ANYONE who has baffled on top - how tight are
you to the tops of the cylinders ???

If you have the speed cowl, make sure that there is no gap
in front of the carb filter, as air entering there will reverse-
pressurize the cowl.

Last thought - if it's a brand-new engine, you will have to
fly it HARD for a couple of hours to seat the rings. Temperatures
will then come down ....

....bobp

PS
One more thought - you might want to check your guages by
putting the temp. probe into a pail of boiling water. It wouldn't
be the first time a guage was inaccurate !! ;-)

-------------------------------orig.------------------------------------
At 12:10 PM 6/17/01 -0700, you wrote:

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Builders, we just finished our murphy rebel on floats and are having
cooling problems. we are running a 160 horsepower O-320 and can only taxi
for about five minutes at around 1300 rpm and the engine temp will rise to
220 degrees C. we baffled with standard side and rear baffling, but also
ran baffling over the top front of the enging (just behind the fly wheel).
we also cut two reverse scoops in the bottom of the cowling for more air
escape, but haven't tested it yet. we are wondering how the rest of the
builders have baffled their 0-320's and if they ran the baffling over the
top of the engine like we did, or ran it down below the fly wheel and left
the top more open, like Cessna does. if anyone has had cooling problems

and

has found fixes for them, whether it be with baffling or changes in the
cowling, we would appreciate it if you would let us know.

thanks,
Brian and Brian
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Builders, we just finished our murphy rebel on floats and are having
cooling problems. we are running a 160 horsepower O-320 and can only taxi
for about five minutes at around 1300 rpm and the engine temp will rise to
220 degrees C. we baffled with standard side and rear baffling, but also
ran baffling over the top front of the enging (just behind the fly wheel).
we also cut two reverse scoops in the bottom of the cowling for more air
escape, but haven't tested it yet. we are wondering how the rest of the
builders have baffled their 0-320's and if they ran the baffling over the
top of the engine like we did, or ran it down below the fly wheel and left
the top more open, like Cessna does. if anyone has had cooling problems and
has found fixes for them, whether it be with baffling or changes in the
cowling, we would appreciate it if you would let us know.

thanks,
Brian and Brian
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Brian At 1300 rpm are you in a plowing attitude? Nose high and low speed
won't get much air going over your engine. I had problems with my rebel
overheating and found a few things to lower my temps.
1. I moved my oil cooler from the firewall to the rear baffle. This helped
a lot I wasn't getting enough air through the oil cooler before.
2. I installed baffles between the cylinder heads to make sure the air has
to flow through the fins
3. I sealed every gap and joint in the baffles and between the baffles and
engine block with high temp silicon seal.
4. I treated the engine with slick 50. It helped a bit but I wouldn't do it
before your engine's broken in.
5. I reworked my bottom cowl to make the air exit larger but this made very
little difference.
6. I installed header tape on my exhaust. This is a ceramic cloth tape that
racers use to wrap their headers. It keeps the heat in the pipes and
prevents it from being radiated into the engine compartment. The package
also claims increased horsepower but I don't believe that. Wrapping the
exhaust made the biggest difference lowering my oil temp 15-20 deg. F

Good luck Drew

At 12:10 PM 6/17/01 -0700, you wrote:

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Builders, we just finished our murphy rebel on floats and are having
cooling problems. we are running a 160 horsepower O-320 and can only taxi
for about five minutes at around 1300 rpm and the engine temp will rise to
220 degrees C. we baffled with standard side and rear baffling, but also
ran baffling over the top front of the enging (just behind the fly wheel).
we also cut two reverse scoops in the bottom of the cowling for more air
escape, but haven't tested it yet. we are wondering how the rest of the
builders have baffled their 0-320's and if they ran the baffling over the
top of the engine like we did, or ran it down below the fly wheel and left
the top more open, like Cessna does. if anyone has had cooling problems and
has found fixes for them, whether it be with baffling or changes in the
cowling, we would appreciate it if you would let us know.

thanks,
Brian and Brian
_________________________________________________________________
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I hope you have a stainless steel exhaust system ! There have
been several cases where the whole exhaust pipe under the header tape
was completely (!!) corroded away. This allowed exhaust gas to blow
onto the gascolator ! :-( (.... In only one year of flying !)

This insulating tape is not recommended for regular steel
exhaust systems for this reason.

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You're very right there Bob.
If you're going to rap regular steel exhaust you should have it aluminized.
If you send it to a good shop for aluminum coating it will last 3 times
longer under normal conditions.
Phil&Lisa Smith #460 N414D

In a message dated 6/20/01 4:16:57 PM Central Daylight Time,
bob.patterson@canrem.com writes:

I hope you have a stainless steel exhaust system ! There have
been several cases where the whole exhaust pipe under the header tape
was completely (!!) corroded away. This allowed exhaust gas to blow
onto the gascolator ! :-( (.... In only one year of flying !)

This insulating tape is not recommended for regular steel
exhaust systems for this reason.
......bobp

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Hi Drew !

I hope you have a stainless steel exhaust system ! There have
been several cases where the whole exhaust pipe under the header tape
was completely (!!) corroded away. This allowed exhaust gas to blow
onto the gascolator ! :-( (.... In only one year of flying !)

This insulating tape is not recommended for regular steel
exhaust systems for this reason.

.....bobp

From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
Reply-To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: engine cooling
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 20:46:25 -0400

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One thing that you CAN do that will really lower temperatures
in the "engine room", AND lengthen the life of your pipes, is to
ceramic coat the insides of the pipes. This special coating is
sometimes called 'heat shielding'.

There is a fellow up here near Peterborough who has been doing
this for years for sports cars, and he is interested in doing aircraft
too. Besides the exhaust pipes, they also treat pistons and valves ...
greatly extends their service life under severe conditions.

......bobp

---------------------------------orig.-----------------------------------

You're very right there Bob.
If you're going to rap regular steel exhaust you should have it

aluminized.

If you send it to a good shop for aluminum coating it will last 3 times
longer under normal conditions.
Phil&Lisa Smith #460 N414D

----------------------------------------------------------------------
At 06:51 PM 6/20/01 EDT, you wrote:

In a message dated 6/20/01 4:16:57 PM Central Daylight Time,
bob.patterson@canrem.com writes:

I hope you have a stainless steel exhaust system ! There have
been several cases where the whole exhaust pipe under the header tape
was completely (!!) corroded away. This allowed exhaust gas to blow
onto the gascolator ! :-( (.... In only one year of flying !)

This insulating tape is not recommended for regular steel
exhaust systems for this reason.
......bobp

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What does it cost, Bob? I have been shaking out my Rebel and have heat
problems. I appreciate the tremendous help evryone is providing. I have
treid everything and after reading all the mail, I am now convinced that
this Rebel will be forced to run hot. Everyone seems to have heat problems.
I even talked with Robin Dyck at Oshkosh last year and he said he wished it
would run cooler. I have tried adding out ducts at the bottom, which helped
slightly, I have tried changing the baffling and I even cut a 1 inch high
gash out of the top cowling air inlet. I have a new engine so I have to fly
at 2500 and I am pegged at 470 Fahrenheit.
I have put my oil cooler on the firewall and directed a 2 1/2" blast tube to
it. I built a mini cowl over it so that the air has to go thru it. It does
not work. My oil is at 250 F. I guess from all the talk it will have to be
moved to the rear baffling, but I was wondering if extending the blast to to
the front inlet would help. I think the firewall mount is not working
because I just can't get the air to move thru the cowling- hence the high
CHTs and OIL Temp. I also fly a LONG EZ and the cooling there was a snap,
because it goes so fast on such low power settings, but this Rebel has been
a real eye opener as far as cooling problems. I just can't believe the air
won't move thru the cowl and am probably looking at a much shorter TBO
because if I have to run at 450 F the engine ain't gonna last long. Any help
as usual will be greatly appreciated. Do I need to fair the firewall, fair
the inlets?

From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
Reply-To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: engine cooling
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 20:46:25 -0400

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One thing that you CAN do that will really lower temperatures
in the "engine room", AND lengthen the life of your pipes, is to
ceramic coat the insides of the pipes. This special coating is
sometimes called 'heat shielding'.

There is a fellow up here near Peterborough who has been doing
this for years for sports cars, and he is interested in doing aircraft
too. Besides the exhaust pipes, they also treat pistons and valves ...
greatly extends their service life under severe conditions.

......bobp

---------------------------------orig.-----------------------------------

You're very right there Bob.
If you're going to rap regular steel exhaust you should have it

aluminized.

If you send it to a good shop for aluminum coating it will last 3 times
longer under normal conditions.
Phil&Lisa Smith #460 N414D

----------------------------------------------------------------------
At 06:51 PM 6/20/01 EDT, you wrote:

In a message dated 6/20/01 4:16:57 PM Central Daylight Time,
bob.patterson@canrem.com writes:

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What does it cost, Bob? I have been shaking out my Rebel and have heat
problems. I appreciate the tremendous help evryone is providing. I have
treid everything and after reading all the mail, I am now convinced that
this Rebel will be forced to run hot. Everyone seems to have heat

I even talked with Robin Dyck at Oshkosh last year and he said he wished

would run cooler. I have tried adding out ducts at the bottom, which

slightly, I have tried changing the baffling and I even cut a 1 inch high
gash out of the top cowling air inlet. I have a new engine so I have to

at 2500 and I am pegged at 470 Fahrenheit.
I have put my oil cooler on the firewall and directed a 2 1/2" blast tube

it. I built a mini cowl over it so that the air has to go thru it. It does
not work. My oil is at 250 F. I guess from all the talk it will have to be
moved to the rear baffling, but I was wondering if extending the blast to

the front inlet would help. I think the firewall mount is not working
because I just can't get the air to move thru the cowling- hence the high
CHTs and OIL Temp. I also fly a LONG EZ and the cooling there was a snap,
because it goes so fast on such low power settings, but this Rebel has

a real eye opener as far as cooling problems. I just can't believe the air
won't move thru the cowl and am probably looking at a much shorter TBO
because if I have to run at 450 F the engine ain't gonna last long. Any

as usual will be greatly appreciated. Do I need to fair the firewall, fair
the inlets?

From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
Reply-To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: engine cooling
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 20:46:25 -0400

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The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder

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One thing that you CAN do that will really lower temperatures
in the "engine room", AND lengthen the life of your pipes, is to
ceramic coat the insides of the pipes. This special coating is
sometimes called 'heat shielding'.

There is a fellow up here near Peterborough who has been doing
this for years for sports cars, and he is interested in doing aircraft
too. Besides the exhaust pipes, they also treat pistons and valves ...
greatly extends their service life under severe conditions.

......bobp

---------------------------------orig.-----------------------------------

You're very right there Bob.
If you're going to rap regular steel exhaust you should have it

aluminized.

If you send it to a good shop for aluminum coating it will last 3 times
longer under normal conditions.
Phil&Lisa Smith #460 N414D

----------------------------------------------------------------------
At 06:51 PM 6/20/01 EDT, you wrote:

In a message dated 6/20/01 4:16:57 PM Central Daylight Time,
bob.patterson@canrem.com writes:

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Sorry about your cooling problems. I have not had any cooling problems with
the speed cowling and my Cont. IO240, but just the opposite, the engine runs
to cool. On the ground taxing i typ. see 200 to 225 deg F CHT. In flight at
cruise i see 300 to 325deg F CHT with the oil temp at 180 to 190 deg F. The
highest temp. i have ever seen was 395 deg F CHT, with the oil temp. at 210
deg F at the end of a full power climb from sea level to 10500 ft on a 85 deg
F day at 75 mph IAS.

I have made two changes to the speed cowl, first i closed up the exit air one
inch and added a cowl flap to close the exit air a additional inch. the cowl
flap in the closed position is about one inch from the bottom of the
fuselage. The second change is the propeller was moved forward 1 1/2 in and
the engine induction air is pulled from inside the cowl (approx 160 CFM at
take off power.)

I for one like the speed cowl and as for maintance it takes me the same
amount of time to remove or install as my 182 Skylane.

Steve Sloan 536R
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