The Murphy Builders Site

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:56 pm**

My builder's manual describing the Pro sealing of the top tank skin,
instructs to rivet the top tank skin in place and wait 72 hours for the Pro
Seal to cure. Then check for leaks, etc.

I'm curious as to how difficult it is to then get the top main wing skin
into position under the outside and trailing edges of the top tank skin?

It would seem that getting the main skin between the edges of the tank skin
and the flanges of the ribs/main spar, would be difficult to do. I
understand why it is done this way, just curious as to how difficult it may
be, and if anyone has any tip, tricks, etc.

I'd appreciate any comments on how others have done this.

Also, thanks to Bob P. and Ken for help with my previous question re:
leading edge root rib.

Roger #687R
Eugene, OR USA

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:56 pm**

Hi Roger.

This part is a pain, bad design. Early kits had a puny tank skin overlap
over the tank, mine is newer with a bigger overlap, still not enough. An
overlap of min. 4 inches would make life a LOT easier.
I sprung a leak at one of the stringers when I pushed the main top skin in.
I eventually ended up grinding notches on the main skin in the stringer area
to keep the skin locally a bit further away from the tank.. I maintained 2D
from rivet holes and rounded all inside corners (Dremel, carbide bit). Use
lots of ProSeal.
An internal leak could be deadly if some wiring (e.g. contacts on strobes,
lights) misbehaved. I'm going to minimize all electrics in the wing and take
extra care with all the wiring, isolate the stuff if possible, just for that
reason.

Good luck

Paul Kucera, Rebel 453R

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger and Alice Hoffman" <rognal@mindspring.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2001 8:49 AM
Subject: Rebel top main wing skins vs. top tank skin

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My builder's manual describing the Pro sealing of the top tank skin,
instructs to rivet the top tank skin in place and wait 72 hours for the

Pro

Seal to cure. Then check for leaks, etc.

I'm curious as to how difficult it is to then get the top main wing skin
into position under the outside and trailing edges of the top tank skin?

It would seem that getting the main skin between the edges of the tank

skin

and the flanges of the ribs/main spar, would be difficult to do. I
understand why it is done this way, just curious as to how difficult it

may

be, and if anyone has any tip, tricks, etc.

I'd appreciate any comments on how others have done this.

Also, thanks to Bob P. and Ken for help with my previous question re:
leading edge root rib.

Roger #687R
Eugene, OR USA

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:56 pm**

Roger

I recall posting some stuff on this after I did mine but I think mostly
I said to make sure you actually had the skin clecoed to the tank skin
before you put the rivet on the tank skin. As soon as the tank skin is
mostly riveted, the main skin can be removed. Otherwise you will likely
have a small alignment problem that may result in waviness of the skin
behind the tank. Some guys have used temporary spacers but I encourage
you to use the wing skin initially. I guess a thou or two offset of the
rivet holes multiplies out on a 12 foot wing.

Another way of making the point would to be that even a perfectly
aligned and drilled wing will not necessarilly pull itself straight if
you try to rivet it while it is slightly twisted.

Having an early kit (119) I replaced my tank skins with slightly larger
pieces which save a lot of trouble. The original skin was fine for a two
bay tank but awful tight for a three bay tank. Getting sufficient edge
clearance behing the tank (up against the tank bulkheads) has been a
problem for some people so I was very glad that they mentioned this
before I got there. Should be several threads in the archives. Newer
kits did change the assembly method so they may have adequate tank skin
size now.

Ken

Roger and Alice Hoffman wrote:

My builder's manual describing the Pro sealing of the top tank skin,
instructs to rivet the top tank skin in place and wait 72 hours for the Pro
Seal to cure. Then check for leaks, etc.

I'm curious as to how difficult it is to then get the top main wing skin
into position under the outside and trailing edges of the top tank skin?

It would seem that getting the main skin between the edges of the tank skin
and the flanges of the ribs/main spar, would be difficult to do. I
understand why it is done this way, just curious as to how difficult it may
be, and if anyone has any tip, tricks, etc.

I'd appreciate any comments on how others have done this.

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:56 pm**

Hi from Calgary

This is a very good point not mentioned in the manual.The pro seal oozes
between the top tank skin and the ribs. In order to get the top skin under
the tank skin and leading edge skin I cut the top skinout where the pro seal
will not allow the top skin to be pushed between the ribs and tank/leading
edge skins.When I say push I mean ease, beg-it -to,cos be very gentle not to
bend the skin.Once the top skin is under the other skins I used two drill
bits, inserted into top skin holes here and there gently shakeing the skin
while pulling it in place. I can't stress the point of easing the skin in
place too much. This has worked for me well. Younhave to cut the top skin so
that it can be slid towards the leading skin and then rootward. This
constitutes having to cut 1/2"x2" strips out of the top skin. In the process
you end up cutting a few holes out of the skin. This way you only have to
rivet 17,996 rivets instead of 18,000. Not installing the top skin together
with the tank skin saved me because, yes I did have a leak at a stringer. I
would not have been able to get some more proseal here if I had riveted the
top skin in place.
Hope this lets you know your not alone on this one.
Good luck

REBEL 505

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:56 pm**

Hi Roger !

I believe some builders have placed waxed paper, or better
still, Saran Wrap into this gap, pulling it out after, to stop any
ProSeal from sticking and preventing the skin from entering.

Use pieces of drill rod to line up the holes so you can just
drop the skin down into place once. Be careful to use clecoes that
are stored in MEK or Acetone, as oil on the clecoes can be enough to
give you a leaky rivet. Also, many folks set the air pressure way
down & pull the rivets part way all around, giving the ProSeal
time to ooze out a bit, before turning up the pressure & pulling
them all the way. You might want to add ProSeal around the
stringers, etc. first, and lay metal protected by Saran Wrap over
it first, letting it set up, before adding the final layer of
PS and glueing on the top - this gives fillets on the inside
(sort-of) ...

.....bobp

--------------------------------orig.------------------------------------
At 05:49 AM 5/19/01 -0700, you wrote:

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My builder's manual describing the Pro sealing of the top tank skin,
instructs to rivet the top tank skin in place and wait 72 hours for the Pro
Seal to cure. Then check for leaks, etc.

I'm curious as to how difficult it is to then get the top main wing skin
into position under the outside and trailing edges of the top tank skin?

It would seem that getting the main skin between the edges of the tank skin
and the flanges of the ribs/main spar, would be difficult to do. I
understand why it is done this way, just curious as to how difficult it may
be, and if anyone has any tip, tricks, etc.

I'd appreciate any comments on how others have done this.

Also, thanks to Bob P. and Ken for help with my previous question re:
leading edge root rib.

Roger #687R
Eugene, OR USA

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:56 pm**

I never built a metal airplane, but I had no trouble doing it. Use plenty of
Pro Seal and you should have no problem

From: "Roger and Alice Hoffman" <rognal@mindspring.com>
Reply-To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Rebel top main wing skins vs. top tank skin
Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 05:49:20 -0700

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The list archives are located at:
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username: rebel password: builder
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My builder's manual describing the Pro sealing of the top tank skin,
instructs to rivet the top tank skin in place and wait 72 hours for the Pro
Seal to cure. Then check for leaks, etc.

I'm curious as to how difficult it is to then get the top main wing skin
into position under the outside and trailing edges of the top tank skin?

It would seem that getting the main skin between the edges of the tank
skin
and the flanges of the ribs/main spar, would be difficult to do. I
understand why it is done this way, just curious as to how difficult it may
be, and if anyone has any tip, tricks, etc.

I'd appreciate any comments on how others have done this.

Also, thanks to Bob P. and Ken for help with my previous question re:
leading edge root rib.

Roger #687R
Eugene, OR USA

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:56 pm**

We used 3 cans of Pro-Seal on our "extended" fuel tanks on 541R....we have
240 Lts
in our wings when full.....and not one drop of leakage !!!

Don't be afraid with the Pro-Seal....GOOP IT ON !...between the sheets and
on either side of the joints :-)

Rick & Wendy Harper
541R
----- Original Message -----
From: brian amendala <solongez@hotmail.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 22 May 2001 14:25
Subject: Re: Rebel top main wing skins vs. top tank skin

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I never built a metal airplane, but I had no trouble doing it. Use plenty

of

Pro Seal and you should have no problem

From: "Roger and Alice Hoffman" <rognal@mindspring.com>
Reply-To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Rebel top main wing skins vs. top tank skin
Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 05:49:20 -0700

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
My builder's manual describing the Pro sealing of the top tank skin,
instructs to rivet the top tank skin in place and wait 72 hours for the

Pro

Seal to cure. Then check for leaks, etc.

I'm curious as to how difficult it is to then get the top main wing skin
into position under the outside and trailing edges of the top tank skin?

It would seem that getting the main skin between the edges of the tank
skin
and the flanges of the ribs/main spar, would be difficult to do. I
understand why it is done this way, just curious as to how difficult it

may

be, and if anyone has any tip, tricks, etc.

I'd appreciate any comments on how others have done this.

Also, thanks to Bob P. and Ken for help with my previous question re:
leading edge root rib.

Roger #687R
Eugene, OR USA

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:56 pm**

Check the hints on my home page. Ken Lehmans comment about avoiding wing skin
alignment is there plus some others on prosealing.

--
Wray Thompson ...Rebel 306 ...home page http://wrayt.tripod.com/
My ICQ number is 29764664