The Murphy Builders Site

Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:37 pm**

Mine come straIght into the cabin. I don't think there's enough room for an elbow between the fuselage and the root rib and to do so would mean using a lot of fittings.
Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Roland Kriening <kriening@rogers.com>
Sender: mike.davis@dcsol.com
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 16:33:52
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Reply-to: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] Fuel ports into cabin

Just finished installing my new struts.. correctly this time.

I am now pondering how to align my wing fuel ports correctly so that the
lines come into the cabin correctly. I actually have four ports in each
wing... fuel out, fuel return (fuel injection), and two for the sight glass
fuel gauge. What is the best way to align the holes.... looking for some
tricks of the trade or best practice.

Roland
R56

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:37 pm**

I used various (expensive) fittings to bring vent lines aft a bit before
entering cockpit just forward of the ceiling bulkhead, and would not
recommend it. Bring your tubing straight in and then bend and/or connect it
as needed.

Ron

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:37 pm**

Thanks guys... hey Wayne you mentioned a while back that you had your tank
vents in the gap between wing and fuselage. Maybe I misunderstood, but I am
trying to picture how that will work. I am a visual learner, so if you have
any pics that would be helpful. At this point I only have the vent hole in
the fuel cap flange as per the plans. I should probably have a plan for this
before drilling holes in the fuselage for the fuel lines. I do agree with
Ron and Drew with their being little room to insert any bends in the line
before it enters the fuselage.

Roland

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Ron
Shannon
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 5:28 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel ports into cabin

I used various (expensive) fittings to bring vent lines aft a bit before
entering cockpit just forward of the ceiling bulkhead, and would not
recommend it. Bring your tubing straight in and then bend and/or connect it
as needed.

Ron

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:37 pm**

Hi Roland I should expand my answer. I recall you have an early serial
number and not sure which manual you're working from. It was discovered
the hard way that under some circumstances fuel may siphon from one tank
to the other and overboard through the vent hole in the filler neck. So
to break any chance for a siphon a cross vent is installed between the 2
tanks. There's a service bulletin covering this. What I have done on
Wayne's advice is install a ram air tube in that vent line and block the
vents on the filler neck. I installed a tee in the vent line between the
wing and the fuselage With one side sticking straight up. The ram air
tube goes up through the wing root fairing and curves forward into the
airstream. I only installed one vent but many others including Wayne ( I
think ) have put one on each side. There's also a lot of builders that
have installed ram air tubes in their gas caps. I'm sure that either
solution will work equally well to slightly pressurize the tanks.

On 30/01/2012 5:58 PM, Roland Kriening wrote:

Thanks guys... hey Wayne you mentioned a while back that you had your tank
vents in the gap between wing and fuselage. Maybe I misunderstood, but I am
trying to picture how that will work. I am a visual learner, so if you have
any pics that would be helpful. At this point I only have the vent hole in
the fuel cap flange as per the plans. I should probably have a plan for this
before drilling holes in the fuselage for the fuel lines. I do agree with
Ron and Drew with their being little room to insert any bends in the line
before it enters the fuselage.

Roland

-----Original Message-----
From:mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Ron
Shannon
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 5:28 PM
To:rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel ports into cabin

I used various (expensive) fittings to bring vent lines aft a bit before
entering cockpit just forward of the ceiling bulkhead, and would not
recommend it. Bring your tubing straight in and then bend and/or connect it
as needed.

Ron

-

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:37 pm**

Yep.. put rivets in those holes in the filler necks.. cross vent the tanks
and one (or two if you don't do good preflights) ram air vents. FWIW.. on my
personal airplane I ram air vented with a tube into the top corner of the
outboard tank rib ...coming from behind the wing strut like a Cessna when I
built it in '93/94 and cross vented the tanks. Has worked flawless.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 9:59 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel ports into cabin

Hi Roland I should expand my answer. I recall you have an early serial
number and not sure which manual you're working from. It was discovered
the hard way that under some circumstances fuel may siphon from one tank
to the other and overboard through the vent hole in the filler neck. So
to break any chance for a siphon a cross vent is installed between the 2
tanks. There's a service bulletin covering this. What I have done on
Wayne's advice is install a ram air tube in that vent line and block the
vents on the filler neck. I installed a tee in the vent line between the
wing and the fuselage With one side sticking straight up. The ram air
tube goes up through the wing root fairing and curves forward into the
airstream. I only installed one vent but many others including Wayne ( I
think ) have put one on each side. There's also a lot of builders that
have installed ram air tubes in their gas caps. I'm sure that either
solution will work equally well to slightly pressurize the tanks.

On 30/01/2012 5:58 PM, Roland Kriening wrote:
Thanks guys... hey Wayne you mentioned a while back that you had your
tank
vents in the gap between wing and fuselage. Maybe I misunderstood, but I
am
trying to picture how that will work. I am a visual learner, so if you
have
any pics that would be helpful. At this point I only have the vent hole
in
the fuel cap flange as per the plans. I should probably have a plan for
this
before drilling holes in the fuselage for the fuel lines. I do agree with
Ron and Drew with their being little room to insert any bends in the line
before it enters the fuselage.

Roland

-----Original Message-----
From:mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Ron
Shannon
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 5:28 PM
To:rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel ports into cabin

I used various (expensive) fittings to bring vent lines aft a bit before
entering cockpit just forward of the ceiling bulkhead, and would not
recommend it. Bring your tubing straight in and then bend and/or connect
it
as needed.

Ron

-

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:37 pm**

Great, I am going to print and save these instructions. A newbie question...
does one buy the ram air tube or make one. I have seen them on top of gas
caps but assume they have been welded on. So just so I understand, the ram
air tube does need to come up into the airstream. Can I assume then that the
pressure created by the airstream keeps the fuel from escaping during a
turn. My education continues.

Drew, if you have a pic or two it would really help.

Roland
R56

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Drew
Dalgleish
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 10:00 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel ports into cabin

Hi Roland I should expand my answer. I recall you have an early serial
number and not sure which manual you're working from. It was discovered
the hard way that under some circumstances fuel may siphon from one tank
to the other and overboard through the vent hole in the filler neck. So
to break any chance for a siphon a cross vent is installed between the 2
tanks. There's a service bulletin covering this. What I have done on
Wayne's advice is install a ram air tube in that vent line and block the
vents on the filler neck. I installed a tee in the vent line between the
wing and the fuselage With one side sticking straight up. The ram air
tube goes up through the wing root fairing and curves forward into the
airstream. I only installed one vent but many others including Wayne ( I
think ) have put one on each side. There's also a lot of builders that
have installed ram air tubes in their gas caps. I'm sure that either
solution will work equally well to slightly pressurize the tanks.

On 30/01/2012 5:58 PM, Roland Kriening wrote:

Thanks guys... hey Wayne you mentioned a while back that you had your tank
vents in the gap between wing and fuselage. Maybe I misunderstood, but I

am

trying to picture how that will work. I am a visual learner, so if you

have

any pics that would be helpful. At this point I only have the vent hole in
the fuel cap flange as per the plans. I should probably have a plan for

this

before drilling holes in the fuselage for the fuel lines. I do agree with
Ron and Drew with their being little room to insert any bends in the line
before it enters the fuselage.

Roland

-----Original Message-----
From:mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Ron
Shannon
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 5:28 PM
To:rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel ports into cabin

I used various (expensive) fittings to bring vent lines aft a bit before
entering cockpit just forward of the ceiling bulkhead, and would not
recommend it. Bring your tubing straight in and then bend and/or connect

it

as needed.

Ron

-

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:37 pm**

Try http://store.wagaero.com/product_info.p ... ts_id=8107
For ram air fuel caps

Wayne Pederson
3268 Adelia Dr SE.
Bemidji Minnesota 56601
Phone 218-444-8069
http://www.whitetaildeerfarmer.com/Airplane.htm

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Roland
Kriening
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 6:23 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Fuel ports into cabin

Great, I am going to print and save these instructions. A newbie question...
does one buy the ram air tube or make one. I have seen them on top of gas
caps but assume they have been welded on. So just so I understand, the ram
air tube does need to come up into the airstream. Can I assume then that the
pressure created by the airstream keeps the fuel from escaping during a
turn. My education continues.

Drew, if you have a pic or two it would really help.

Roland
R56

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Drew
Dalgleish
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 10:00 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel ports into cabin

Hi Roland I should expand my answer. I recall you have an early serial
number and not sure which manual you're working from. It was discovered
the hard way that under some circumstances fuel may siphon from one tank
to the other and overboard through the vent hole in the filler neck. So
to break any chance for a siphon a cross vent is installed between the 2
tanks. There's a service bulletin covering this. What I have done on
Wayne's advice is install a ram air tube in that vent line and block the
vents on the filler neck. I installed a tee in the vent line between the
wing and the fuselage With one side sticking straight up. The ram air
tube goes up through the wing root fairing and curves forward into the
airstream. I only installed one vent but many others including Wayne ( I
think ) have put one on each side. There's also a lot of builders that
have installed ram air tubes in their gas caps. I'm sure that either
solution will work equally well to slightly pressurize the tanks.

On 30/01/2012 5:58 PM, Roland Kriening wrote:

Thanks guys... hey Wayne you mentioned a while back that you had your tank
vents in the gap between wing and fuselage. Maybe I misunderstood, but I

am

trying to picture how that will work. I am a visual learner, so if you

have

any pics that would be helpful. At this point I only have the vent hole in
the fuel cap flange as per the plans. I should probably have a plan for

this

before drilling holes in the fuselage for the fuel lines. I do agree with
Ron and Drew with their being little room to insert any bends in the line
before it enters the fuselage.

Roland

-----Original Message-----
From:mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Ron
Shannon
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 5:28 PM
To:rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel ports into cabin

I used various (expensive) fittings to bring vent lines aft a bit before
entering cockpit just forward of the ceiling bulkhead, and would not
recommend it. Bring your tubing straight in and then bend and/or connect

it

as needed.

Ron

-

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:37 pm**

The issue with "store bought" snorkel caps... they are usually already bent
and since >you< placed, drilled and riveted the filler neck in place it
probably won't match the correct locking direction for the cap. They're fine
if you have the caps prior to building so you can orient the filler neck, or
willing to try to straighten .. then rebend the ram air tube. The other
issue with them.... don't let the lad at the airport fuel your airplane!
They always think they look neater with the tube facing BACKWARDS !

Yes.. it faces forward and creates a small + pressure which helps keep fuel
flow even in both wings and more importantly forces it down the line to the
carburetor. Snorkel scoops are mandatory on a few SCub STC's for more
horsepower = making sure the fuel is being delivered.

I don't like them on the caps.. although it is an easier and more likely
place that they'll get checked for being open / clear of bugs. I prefer to
tee the cross over line and pop a tube up thru the wing root fairing and
bend forward into the air stream. Small piece of brass screen inserted to
keep the mud dabbers out.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Kriening" <kriening@rogers.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 7:23 AM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Fuel ports into cabin

Great, I am going to print and save these instructions. A newbie
question...
does one buy the ram air tube or make one. I have seen them on top of gas
caps but assume they have been welded on. So just so I understand, the ram
air tube does need to come up into the airstream. Can I assume then that
the
pressure created by the airstream keeps the fuel from escaping during a
turn. My education continues.

Drew, if you have a pic or two it would really help.

Roland
R56

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Drew
Dalgleish
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 10:00 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel ports into cabin

Hi Roland I should expand my answer. I recall you have an early serial
number and not sure which manual you're working from. It was discovered
the hard way that under some circumstances fuel may siphon from one tank
to the other and overboard through the vent hole in the filler neck. So
to break any chance for a siphon a cross vent is installed between the 2
tanks. There's a service bulletin covering this. What I have done on
Wayne's advice is install a ram air tube in that vent line and block the
vents on the filler neck. I installed a tee in the vent line between the
wing and the fuselage With one side sticking straight up. The ram air
tube goes up through the wing root fairing and curves forward into the
airstream. I only installed one vent but many others including Wayne ( I
think ) have put one on each side. There's also a lot of builders that
have installed ram air tubes in their gas caps. I'm sure that either
solution will work equally well to slightly pressurize the tanks.

On 30/01/2012 5:58 PM, Roland Kriening wrote:
Thanks guys... hey Wayne you mentioned a while back that you had your
tank
vents in the gap between wing and fuselage. Maybe I misunderstood, but I
am
trying to picture how that will work. I am a visual learner, so if you
have
any pics that would be helpful. At this point I only have the vent hole
in
the fuel cap flange as per the plans. I should probably have a plan for
this
before drilling holes in the fuselage for the fuel lines. I do agree with
Ron and Drew with their being little room to insert any bends in the line
before it enters the fuselage.

Roland

-----Original Message-----
From:mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Ron
Shannon
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 5:28 PM
To:rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel ports into cabin

I used various (expensive) fittings to bring vent lines aft a bit before
entering cockpit just forward of the ceiling bulkhead, and would not
recommend it. Bring your tubing straight in and then bend and/or connect
it
as needed.

Ron

-

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:37 pm**

My guess is then that the ram air added + pressure would have no impact on
the fuel injection system, but just vent the tank ( and keep the fuel in the
tank ). Thinking out loud ??

Roland

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
G. O'Shea
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 11:15 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel ports into cabin

The issue with "store bought" snorkel caps... they are usually already bent
and since >you< placed, drilled and riveted the filler neck in place it
probably won't match the correct locking direction for the cap. They're fine

if you have the caps prior to building so you can orient the filler neck, or

willing to try to straighten .. then rebend the ram air tube. The other
issue with them.... don't let the lad at the airport fuel your airplane!
They always think they look neater with the tube facing BACKWARDS !

Yes.. it faces forward and creates a small + pressure which helps keep fuel
flow even in both wings and more importantly forces it down the line to the
carburetor. Snorkel scoops are mandatory on a few SCub STC's for more
horsepower = making sure the fuel is being delivered.

I don't like them on the caps.. although it is an easier and more likely
place that they'll get checked for being open / clear of bugs. I prefer to
tee the cross over line and pop a tube up thru the wing root fairing and
bend forward into the air stream. Small piece of brass screen inserted to
keep the mud dabbers out.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Kriening" <kriening@rogers.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 7:23 AM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Fuel ports into cabin

Great, I am going to print and save these instructions. A newbie
question...
does one buy the ram air tube or make one. I have seen them on top of gas
caps but assume they have been welded on. So just so I understand, the ram
air tube does need to come up into the airstream. Can I assume then that
the
pressure created by the airstream keeps the fuel from escaping during a
turn. My education continues.

Drew, if you have a pic or two it would really help.

Roland
R56

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Drew
Dalgleish
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 10:00 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel ports into cabin

Hi Roland I should expand my answer. I recall you have an early serial
number and not sure which manual you're working from. It was discovered
the hard way that under some circumstances fuel may siphon from one tank
to the other and overboard through the vent hole in the filler neck. So
to break any chance for a siphon a cross vent is installed between the 2
tanks. There's a service bulletin covering this. What I have done on
Wayne's advice is install a ram air tube in that vent line and block the
vents on the filler neck. I installed a tee in the vent line between the
wing and the fuselage With one side sticking straight up. The ram air
tube goes up through the wing root fairing and curves forward into the
airstream. I only installed one vent but many others including Wayne ( I
think ) have put one on each side. There's also a lot of builders that
have installed ram air tubes in their gas caps. I'm sure that either
solution will work equally well to slightly pressurize the tanks.

On 30/01/2012 5:58 PM, Roland Kriening wrote:
Thanks guys... hey Wayne you mentioned a while back that you had your
tank
vents in the gap between wing and fuselage. Maybe I misunderstood, but I
am
trying to picture how that will work. I am a visual learner, so if you
have
any pics that would be helpful. At this point I only have the vent hole
in
the fuel cap flange as per the plans. I should probably have a plan for
this
before drilling holes in the fuselage for the fuel lines. I do agree with
Ron and Drew with their being little room to insert any bends in the line
before it enters the fuselage.

Roland

-----Original Message-----
From:mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Ron
Shannon
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 5:28 PM
To:rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel ports into cabin

I used various (expensive) fittings to bring vent lines aft a bit before
entering cockpit just forward of the ceiling bulkhead, and would not
recommend it. Bring your tubing straight in and then bend and/or connect
it
as needed.

Ron

-

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:37 pm**

That's one for Ken ! But you need it vented no matter what or you'd suck you
tank flat!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Kriening" <kriening@rogers.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 2:24 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Fuel ports into cabin

My guess is then that the ram air added + pressure would have no impact on
the fuel injection system, but just vent the tank ( and keep the fuel in
the
tank ). Thinking out loud ??

Roland

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Wayne
G. O'Shea
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 11:15 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel ports into cabin

The issue with "store bought" snorkel caps... they are usually already
bent
and since >you< placed, drilled and riveted the filler neck in place it
probably won't match the correct locking direction for the cap. They're
fine

if you have the caps prior to building so you can orient the filler neck,
or

willing to try to straighten .. then rebend the ram air tube. The other
issue with them.... don't let the lad at the airport fuel your airplane!
They always think they look neater with the tube facing BACKWARDS !

Yes.. it faces forward and creates a small + pressure which helps keep
fuel
flow even in both wings and more importantly forces it down the line to
the
carburetor. Snorkel scoops are mandatory on a few SCub STC's for more
horsepower = making sure the fuel is being delivered.

I don't like them on the caps.. although it is an easier and more likely
place that they'll get checked for being open / clear of bugs. I prefer to
tee the cross over line and pop a tube up thru the wing root fairing and
bend forward into the air stream. Small piece of brass screen inserted to
keep the mud dabbers out.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Kriening" <kriening@rogers.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 7:23 AM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Fuel ports into cabin

Great, I am going to print and save these instructions. A newbie
question...
does one buy the ram air tube or make one. I have seen them on top of gas
caps but assume they have been welded on. So just so I understand, the
ram
air tube does need to come up into the airstream. Can I assume then that
the
pressure created by the airstream keeps the fuel from escaping during a
turn. My education continues.

Drew, if you have a pic or two it would really help.

Roland
R56

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Drew
Dalgleish
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 10:00 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel ports into cabin

Hi Roland I should expand my answer. I recall you have an early serial
number and not sure which manual you're working from. It was discovered
the hard way that under some circumstances fuel may siphon from one tank
to the other and overboard through the vent hole in the filler neck. So
to break any chance for a siphon a cross vent is installed between the 2
tanks. There's a service bulletin covering this. What I have done on
Wayne's advice is install a ram air tube in that vent line and block the
vents on the filler neck. I installed a tee in the vent line between the
wing and the fuselage With one side sticking straight up. The ram air
tube goes up through the wing root fairing and curves forward into the
airstream. I only installed one vent but many others including Wayne ( I
think ) have put one on each side. There's also a lot of builders that
have installed ram air tubes in their gas caps. I'm sure that either
solution will work equally well to slightly pressurize the tanks.

On 30/01/2012 5:58 PM, Roland Kriening wrote:
Thanks guys... hey Wayne you mentioned a while back that you had your
tank
vents in the gap between wing and fuselage. Maybe I misunderstood, but I
am
trying to picture how that will work. I am a visual learner, so if you
have
any pics that would be helpful. At this point I only have the vent hole
in
the fuel cap flange as per the plans. I should probably have a plan for
this
before drilling holes in the fuselage for the fuel lines. I do agree
with
Ron and Drew with their being little room to insert any bends in the
line
before it enters the fuselage.

Roland

-----Original Message-----
From:mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Ron
Shannon
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 5:28 PM
To:rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel ports into cabin

I used various (expensive) fittings to bring vent lines aft a bit before
entering cockpit just forward of the ceiling bulkhead, and would not
recommend it. Bring your tubing straight in and then bend and/or connect
it
as needed.

Ron

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:37 pm**

No impact on the automotive EFI systems that I'm familiar with but ram
pressure may help prevent cavitation depending on any plumbing to the
pump. Others have observed that the ram air adds about 5 inches of head
(makes the tank seem 5" higher).

If this is automotive EFI injection, some 40 psi electric pumps don't
like slugs of air though and there is normally no reservoir like a carb
float bowel which means the engine will also immediately start missing
if the pump takes in a slug of air. I like some kind of header tank with
EFI even if it is only a pint or quart size.

My snorkel vent (inverted J at the wing root) is bent almost straight
down to slow the flow of air in through the crossvent and out MAM's tank
caps. I have no holes in the filler necks but my caps have small
internal vents that seem to let a fair bit of air flow out if the
snorkel faces forward. A richer mixture above the fuel is safer and I
hate to waste fuel vapour or vent that much pollution.

Ken

On 31/01/2012 2:35 PM, Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

That's one for Ken ! But you need it vented no matter what or you'd suck you
tank flat!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Kriening"<kriening@rogers.com>
To:<rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 2:24 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Fuel ports into cabin

My guess is then that the ram air added + pressure would have no impact on
the fuel injection system, but just vent the tank ( and keep the fuel in
the
tank ). Thinking out loud ??

Roland

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Wayne
G. O'Shea
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 11:15 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel ports into cabin

The issue with "store bought" snorkel caps... they are usually already
bent
and since>you< placed, drilled and riveted the filler neck in place it
probably won't match the correct locking direction for the cap. They're
fine

if you have the caps prior to building so you can orient the filler neck,
or

willing to try to straighten .. then rebend the ram air tube. The other
issue with them.... don't let the lad at the airport fuel your airplane!
They always think they look neater with the tube facing BACKWARDS !

Yes.. it faces forward and creates a small + pressure which helps keep
fuel
flow even in both wings and more importantly forces it down the line to
the
carburetor. Snorkel scoops are mandatory on a few SCub STC's for more
horsepower = making sure the fuel is being delivered.

I don't like them on the caps.. although it is an easier and more likely
place that they'll get checked for being open / clear of bugs. I prefer to
tee the cross over line and pop a tube up thru the wing root fairing and
bend forward into the air stream. Small piece of brass screen inserted to
keep the mud dabbers out.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Kriening"<kriening@rogers.com>
To:<rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 7:23 AM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Fuel ports into cabin

Great, I am going to print and save these instructions. A newbie
question...
does one buy the ram air tube or make one. I have seen them on top of gas
caps but assume they have been welded on. So just so I understand, the
ram
air tube does need to come up into the airstream. Can I assume then that
the
pressure created by the airstream keeps the fuel from escaping during a
turn. My education continues.

Drew, if you have a pic or two it would really help.

Roland
R56

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Drew
Dalgleish
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 10:00 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel ports into cabin

Hi Roland I should expand my answer. I recall you have an early serial
number and not sure which manual you're working from. It was discovered
the hard way that under some circumstances fuel may siphon from one tank
to the other and overboard through the vent hole in the filler neck. So
to break any chance for a siphon a cross vent is installed between the 2
tanks. There's a service bulletin covering this. What I have done on
Wayne's advice is install a ram air tube in that vent line and block the
vents on the filler neck. I installed a tee in the vent line between the
wing and the fuselage With one side sticking straight up. The ram air
tube goes up through the wing root fairing and curves forward into the
airstream. I only installed one vent but many others including Wayne ( I
think ) have put one on each side. There's also a lot of builders that
have installed ram air tubes in their gas caps. I'm sure that either
solution will work equally well to slightly pressurize the tanks.

On 30/01/2012 5:58 PM, Roland Kriening wrote: am have this it

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:37 pm**

Wow! Good info on the vents. I will be plugging my filler necks and adding ram air venting. I was told by a Rebel builder to drill the necks, but you can't argue with field tested methods. So... Installing one at each wing root does not create any issues? ( I like the idea of redundancy ) or is it overkill..
Curtis

From: Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: (SPAM?) Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel ports into cabin
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 16:00:50 -0800

I've yet to ever find any water in any of my tanks, lines or gascolator. And
I have flown in a few pretty strong rain storms. I have the ram vents in my
fuel caps. So if water does get in there, can't be a lot, and don't know
where it disappears to if I do get any.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Paul
Lennemann
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 3:43 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: re: (SPAM?) Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel ports into cabin

Does water enter the fuel tanks when flying in the rain?

Paul Lennemann

----------------------------------------

From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 2:53 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: (SPAM?) Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel ports into cabin

No impact on the automotive EFI systems that I'm familiar with but ram
pressure may help prevent cavitation depending on any plumbing to the pump.
Others have observed that the ram air adds about 5 inches of head (makes the
tank seem 5" higher).

If this is automotive EFI injection, some 40 psi electric pumps don't like
slugs of air though and there is normally no reservoir like a carb float
bowel which means the engine will also immediately start missing if the pump
takes in a slug of air. I like some kind of header tank with EFI even if it
is only a pint or quart size.

My snorkel vent (inverted J at the wing root) is bent almost straight down
to slow the flow of air in through the crossvent and out MAM's tank caps. I
have no holes in the filler necks but my caps have small internal vents that
seem to let a fair bit of air flow out if the snorkel faces forward. A
richer mixture above the fuel is safer and I hate to waste fuel vapour or
vent that much pollution.

Ken

On 31/01/2012 2:35 PM, Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:
That's one for Ken ! But you need it vented no matter what or you'd
suck
you
tank flat!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Kriening"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 2:24 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Fuel ports into cabin

My guess is then that the ram air added + pressure would have no
impact
on
the fuel injection system, but just vent the tank ( and keep the fuel
in
the
tank ). Thinking out loud ??

Roland

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 11:15 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel ports into cabin

The issue with "store bought" snorkel caps... they are usually
already bent and since>you< placed, drilled and riveted the filler
neck in place it probably won't match the correct locking direction
for the cap. They're fine

if you have the caps prior to building so you can orient the filler
neck,
or

willing to try to straighten .. then rebend the ram air tube. The
other issue with them.... don't let the lad at the airport fuel your
airplane!
They always think they look neater with the tube facing BACKWARDS !

Yes.. it faces forward and creates a small + pressure which helps
keep fuel flow even in both wings and more importantly forces it down
the line to the carburetor. Snorkel scoops are mandatory on a few
SCub STC's for more horsepower = making sure the fuel is being
delivered.

I don't like them on the caps.. although it is an easier and more
likely
place that they'll get checked for being open / clear of bugs. I
prefer
to
tee the cross over line and pop a tube up thru the wing root fairing
and
bend forward into the air stream. Small piece of brass screen
inserted
to
keep the mud dabbers out.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Kriening"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 7:23 AM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Fuel ports into cabin

gas
that
a
discovered
tank
So
2
the
the
I
I
you
hole
for
before
connect
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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:37 pm**

is there a possibility with ram air cap vents that if one tank empties first and selector is on both that only ram air will be delivered to the carburetor since air is less viscous than fuel.

Karl Hipp

On Jan 31, 2012, at 7:28 PM, Curt Langholz <c120pilot@hotmail.com> wrote:

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