[rebel-builders] Re: [rebel-builders] Re: [rebel-builders] Max flaps
Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:36 pm
Fellow Aircraft owners and builders: Here is a bit of recent information. A
person in the local area (on the rock) purchased a moose kit from somewhere
in Alaska All of the components are closed up and finished. The builder had
died and his wife got around to selling the project. Now that it is in
Canada and needs to be completed I understand that the components have to be
made ready for a precover inspection by a MDRA inspector. That means that
all of the components that are closed up have to be opened for a visual
inspection. That process will cause a lot of damage by drilling out one side
of each of the control surfaces, wings, ailerons, fuselage floor etc.
The inspection process does not allow cameras or scopes. What is the
difference between the US inspection system and the Canadian system. Has
anyone run across this before. What would happen if a person sold a
unfinished kit built in Canada to be completed in the US. Don`t blame MDRA
Transport Canada Makes the rules.
Bruce
-----Original Message-----
From: jessejenks72@gmail.com
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 12:59 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] Re: [rebel-builders] Re: [rebel-builders] Max
flaps
Ben, yes I have VGs now on wing and tail, and it did help a LOT. I can
actually come into the flare at 40-45kts and not splat onto the ground,
whereas before VGs I had to add power, now I can just pull back on the
stick. Big tires are next, as you say that will yield a higher incidence
angle and hopefully slower/shorter landings and takeoffs. The airplane is
controllable to a much higher angle than I can currently achieve due to the
landing gear, and in my opinion that is wasted angle of attack. Maximizing
the available flap has to be part of the equation though.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE smartphone
----- Reply message -----
From: "Ben Ransom" <bransom@ucdavis.edu>
To: "rebel-builders@dcsol.com" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: [rebel-builders] Re: [rebel-builders] Max flaps
Date: Thu, Jan 12, 2012 10:24 pm
Jesse, I can't recall ...do you have VGs on your wing and/or anywhere else?
I wonder about getting it slower with VGs on both the wing and under tail,
Fife tips, and maybe also with longer main gear (or bigger tires) to not
have the tail hit too early.
Seems like all that should do the trick, and especially if not too heavy.
Dang those tricked out cubs landing in the 20s (with power)!
-Ben
On 1/11/12 1:16 PM, "jessejenks72@gmail.com" <jessejenks72@gmail.com>
wrote:
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person in the local area (on the rock) purchased a moose kit from somewhere
in Alaska All of the components are closed up and finished. The builder had
died and his wife got around to selling the project. Now that it is in
Canada and needs to be completed I understand that the components have to be
made ready for a precover inspection by a MDRA inspector. That means that
all of the components that are closed up have to be opened for a visual
inspection. That process will cause a lot of damage by drilling out one side
of each of the control surfaces, wings, ailerons, fuselage floor etc.
The inspection process does not allow cameras or scopes. What is the
difference between the US inspection system and the Canadian system. Has
anyone run across this before. What would happen if a person sold a
unfinished kit built in Canada to be completed in the US. Don`t blame MDRA
Transport Canada Makes the rules.
Bruce
-----Original Message-----
From: jessejenks72@gmail.com
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 12:59 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] Re: [rebel-builders] Re: [rebel-builders] Max
flaps
Ben, yes I have VGs now on wing and tail, and it did help a LOT. I can
actually come into the flare at 40-45kts and not splat onto the ground,
whereas before VGs I had to add power, now I can just pull back on the
stick. Big tires are next, as you say that will yield a higher incidence
angle and hopefully slower/shorter landings and takeoffs. The airplane is
controllable to a much higher angle than I can currently achieve due to the
landing gear, and in my opinion that is wasted angle of attack. Maximizing
the available flap has to be part of the equation though.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE smartphone
----- Reply message -----
From: "Ben Ransom" <bransom@ucdavis.edu>
To: "rebel-builders@dcsol.com" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: [rebel-builders] Re: [rebel-builders] Max flaps
Date: Thu, Jan 12, 2012 10:24 pm
Jesse, I can't recall ...do you have VGs on your wing and/or anywhere else?
I wonder about getting it slower with VGs on both the wing and under tail,
Fife tips, and maybe also with longer main gear (or bigger tires) to not
have the tail hit too early.
Seems like all that should do the trick, and especially if not too heavy.
Dang those tricked out cubs landing in the 20s (with power)!
-Ben
On 1/11/12 1:16 PM, "jessejenks72@gmail.com" <jessejenks72@gmail.com>
wrote:
I can already! But only with power. I can land power off at about 45 kts
over the
fence. I want to get that down to 40.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE smartphone
----- Reply message -----
From: "karl" <khipp@99victor.com>
To:
Subject: [rebel-builders] Max flaps
Date: Wed, Jan 11, 2012 12:25 pm
I never use FULL flaps as it is because the controls get too heavy.
I cannot imagine another notch.
Add VG's they will lower your stall 8mph--If thats not enough add some
Zenair slats. You should be able to fly around then at 30 mph.
Karl Hipp
On 1/11/2012 12:53 PM, Ken wrote:I would not want to mess with MAM's 18
degrees max warning. I'm finding that the only time max flaperon makes
much difference is hot heavy takeoffs from water (pulling the nose
higher increases float drag when you are on the step). That is the only
time I would consider using it even if I had more flaperon available. On
land I've found that the difference between one notch and 3 notches (18
degrees) of flaperon is not nearly as significant to takeoff, obstable
clearance, and landing distance, as I once thought. Of course I do like
to sideslip :) Other Rebels may be different.
Besides - is there anyone here who has NEVER oversped a flap?
Ken
On 11/01/2012 1:02 PM, Walter Klatt wrote:-----------------------------------------------------------------I don’t know how much flap you have now, but between reflex and
flap, you are limited by the mixer box. I have mine set to get the
max reflex that I want, and the rest is flap. For landings, I never
use more than half flap anyway, land or water, and heavily loaded. I
only use full flap for take-offs.
The only time I ever used full flap on landings was back when I was
on wheels and flew in sometimes to an ultralight field, and then
would drag it in with power and full flaps. Could get it very slow
and short if I wanted to. But on regular landings, half flap works
just fine and still lots of control for winds and gusts, esp with
VGs.
I believe getting max reflex is more important than max flaps. JMHO.
Walter
-----Original Message----- From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of jessejenks72@gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 9:02 AM To:
rebel-builders@dcsol.com Subject: [rebel-builders] Max flaps
I'm in the process of rebuilding my flap handle, and considering
increasing the max flap setting. I would severely restrict the
airspeed for the last notch. Has anyone done this who could share
their experience? Thanks
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